| waltman | Anyone ever seen this before? http://paste.ubuntu.com/23779865/ | 04:20 |
|---|---|---|
| pleia2 | is your user in the nopasswdlogin group? | 04:23 |
| waltman | no | 04:24 |
| pleia2 | (and do you have it configured to log you in without a password?) | 04:24 |
| waltman | I just tried switching to unity, and now it seems completely hung | 04:24 |
| waltman | I rebooted a zillion times up to a few days ago and it was always fine. | 04:24 |
| pleia2 | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1511824 seems to indicate others have had problems | 04:25 |
| waltman | Yeah, I've seen reports from the past, but I don't see what they did to fix it. | 04:25 |
| pleia2 | yeah, I've never seen it :\ | 04:26 |
| waltman | I think I'm going to have to reboot just to get a login prompt back. | 04:26 |
| waltman | I just restarted because I seemed hung, and now I see a message during shutdown saying "a start job is running for Unattended Upgrades Shutdown". What does that mean? | 04:32 |
| waltman | And can I just hit the reset button? | 04:32 |
| teddy-dbear | Morning peoples, critters and everything else | 10:50 |
| waltman | So my temporary fix to my issues from last night was to reboot back into 4.8.0-32 instead of the new -34. | 15:00 |
| waltman | And again I seem to be getting ignored by #ubuntu :( | 15:03 |
| waltman | So if #ubuntu remains unresponsive tonight, where's the best place to ask questions about it? The ubuntu-users mailing list? | 15:39 |
| jthan | waltman: ubuntu forums | 16:15 |
| waltman | jthan: Ugh. So is this "General Help" or "Desktop Environments"? | 16:34 |
| jthan | I don't know. | 16:35 |
| waltman | My experience with these sorts of forums in the past is that once your issue falls off the first page it disappears. | 16:36 |
| waltman | Well, I'm trying to post a new thread to the General forum, but it's just hanging. This isn't really inspiring a lot of confidence in me. | 17:11 |
| waltman | mailing lists > web forums | 17:11 |
| waltman | Maybe if I go get lunch it'll be finished by the time I get back. | 17:12 |
| jthan | Nobody would ever subscribe to a mailing list that was getting 20k emails/day | 17:16 |
| waltman | Oh well. We'll see if anyone responds. | 17:19 |
| waltman | I find it much easier to deal with high-traffic lists in mutt than with web forums | 17:20 |
| waltman | One nice thing about web forums is that you can see how many people read your post and decided to not answer it. :) | 18:55 |
| jthan | or perhaps they just didn't know how | 18:56 |
| waltman | I didn't see any solutions in the previous postings. | 19:22 |
| waltman | They did, however, have *some* replies… | 19:22 |
| waltman | Will I get notified if anyone does reply? | 19:53 |
| jthan | do your notification settings indicate that you will? | 19:56 |
| rmg51 | waltman: probably the best way to deal with this is to wait till the next kernel update. sometimes a new kernel will fix an old problem | 20:09 |
| * waltman hunts around for his notificaiton settings… | 20:09 | |
| waltman | It seems I can't even see, let alone modify, any of my settings until after I've made 10 posts. WTF? WTAF? | 20:11 |
| waltman | rmg51: I've been thinking of that too, but it still seems bizarre that a kernel change could prevent me from logging into the gui. | 20:12 |
| rmg51 | I've had problems in the past where that was the easiest fix | 20:13 |
| waltman | If it's not some weird conflict with the nvidia driver, I can't imagine what else might cause it. But then I also don't see how it could even draw the login screen! | 20:15 |
| jthan | so your issue is that you just cna't log in..? | 20:16 |
| r00t^2 | well based on the logs you pasted the other day, i'd presume it's a PAM error | 20:16 |
| r00t^2 | which a kernel update definitely wouldn't fix | 20:16 |
| jthan | or break, most likely | 20:16 |
| r00t^2 | well, right | 20:16 |
| waltman | So then why was I able to reboot into the old kernel and login successfully. | 20:17 |
| r00t^2 | waltman: well, that depends on what boot options are in your bootloader. if i had to guess, something with the security policy's getting futzed | 20:17 |
| waltman | also I haven't knowingly touched anything with pam, and the updates didn't seem to have anything to do with them | 20:18 |
| r00t^2 | you can still log in on a TTY on the broken kernel version, right? | 20:18 |
| waltman | I didn't try, but ssh worked. | 20:18 |
| r00t^2 | i can't recall the default ubuntu sshd_config, but it's possible for sshd to bypass PAM | 20:18 |
| waltman | I wasn't sure how to get to a tty on that box | 20:18 |
| r00t^2 | ctrl+alt+f1 | 20:19 |
| r00t^2 | if that doesn't work, f2. if that doesn't work, f3 etc. | 20:19 |
| r00t^2 | as a quick test, you can also try adding yourself to the no password group in the lightdm config and restarting lightdm, then trying to log in | 20:21 |
| waltman | it was reporting something like that. But again, what does that have to do with the kernel? | 20:21 |
| r00t^2 | which should bypass pam_kwallet5.so, from what i understand, which is what's complaining in the logs | 20:21 |
| waltman | there's no pam_kwallet5.so on this box | 20:22 |
| r00t^2 | you did an updatedb;locate pam_kwallet5.so ? | 20:22 |
| r00t^2 | and as for your question, that's a complicated answer. essentially, kernel -> apparmor -> pam -> userland | 20:23 |
| waltman | it should run updatedb every night, shouldn't it? | 20:23 |
| r00t^2 | not if you aren't running a cron daemon or it doesn't have a systemd timer | 20:23 |
| waltman | mlocate.db was updated at 00:42 this morning. | 20:25 |
| r00t^2 | okay. and you're using KDE as your DE? | 20:25 |
| waltman | KDE? No, whatever the default is. lightdm, I think. | 20:25 |
| r00t^2 | that's your login/display manager | 20:25 |
| r00t^2 | lightdm doesn't even have an associated DE | 20:25 |
| waltman | oh, then I guess gnome. | 20:26 |
| r00t^2 | default for ubuntu vanilla is cinnamon, iirc | 20:26 |
| r00t^2 | which is still confounding why it wants kwallet, but whatever | 20:26 |
| waltman | I'm running whatever the default is. | 20:26 |
| r00t^2 | okay. and what version did you dist-upgrade to? | 20:27 |
| r00t^2 | seems you aren't the only one, assuming it's 16.04.1: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1511824 | 20:27 |
| waltman | https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2349132 | 20:27 |
| waltman | Thanks for telling me about the same old bug I included in my forum post :) | 20:28 |
| waltman | also that's from over a year ago. | 20:29 |
| r00t^2 | ah, 16.10. might still be present (the last post is from november. it's jan 11. "last year" means little). have you tried adding your user to the video group? | 20:29 |
| r00t^2 | and did you change the default session to be explicit, per http://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=15300 (which is linked to in that bug report) | 20:31 |
| waltman | I haven't done either of those things. And I'm not home now to try them out. | 20:32 |
| r00t^2 | well, you've got a place to start then | 20:33 |
| waltman | I still don't see how either of those things should change so radically in a point release of a kernel. | 20:36 |
| r00t^2 | 15:23:17 < r00t^2> and as for your question, that's a complicated answer. essentially, kernel -> apparmor -> pam -> userland | 20:43 |
| r00t^2 | a dist-upgrade updates a shit-ton, not just the kernel | 20:44 |
| r00t^2 | directly, it's likely closer related to the video driver and requiring your user be in the video group, which wasn't present in the video driver the previous kernel uses | 20:45 |
| waltman | No, dist-upgrade is just an upgrade with some different dependency checking. | 20:45 |
| r00t^2 | what do you think the "dist" means in "dist-upgrade"? | 20:45 |
| waltman | I'm using Nvidia's video driver. | 20:45 |
| waltman | also, why does the kernel have a video driver? | 20:45 |
| r00t^2 | because where else would a video driver be? (it's actually a kernel module, and different module versions are kept for different kernel versions) | 20:46 |
| waltman | I see nothing about nvidia in the release notes. | 20:46 |
| r00t^2 | do you want to argue with me or do you want to try solutions? | 20:46 |
| r00t^2 | i can do either, i'd just like a straight answer | 20:47 |
| waltman | Well, seeing as how you don't seem to know what dist-upgrade does... | 20:47 |
| r00t^2 | alright, let's boot my ubuntu vm up. hold on | 20:47 |
| waltman | please read the man page for apt-get | 20:47 |
| waltman | it installed like 4 packages, all related to the kernel. | 20:47 |
| r00t^2 | did you try full-upgrade? | 20:48 |
| r00t^2 | did you update your sources.lst to use 16.10? | 20:49 |
| jthan | LOL | 20:50 |
| jthan | Using upgrade keeps to the rule: under no circumstances are currently installed packages removed, or packages not already installed retrieved and installed. If that's important to you, use apt-get upgrade. If you want things to "just work", you probably want apt-get dist-upgrade to ensure dependencies are resolved. | 20:50 |
| r00t^2 | lel | 20:50 |
| waltman | Why do you think I just did an upgrade to 16.10? | 20:50 |
| waltman | That's NOT what dist-upgrade does. | 20:50 |
| waltman | I built this box with 16.10. | 20:51 |
| r00t^2 | wasn't apt-get obsoleteted in favor of apt? | 20:53 |
| r00t^2 | obsoleted even | 20:53 |
| jthan | same thing | 20:53 |
| jthan | just different name | 20:53 |
| jthan | apt-get install -> apt install | 20:53 |
| r00t^2 | jthan: they aren't, actually | 20:53 |
| r00t^2 | check the man pages. :) | 20:54 |
| jthan | hell if I'm spinning that garbage up | 20:54 |
| jthan | install, remove, purge (apt-get(8)) | 20:54 |
| jthan | ^ that's in man apt | 20:54 |
| waltman | I don't see anything in the apt-get manpage saying it's obsolete. | 20:55 |
| jthan | well it was certainly replaced. | 20:55 |
| r00t^2 | dist-upgrade was created to upgrade to a newer release. hence the name. whether that's the way it's used now, i have no idea. but presumably you're going to want to use apt rather than apt-get since it's standardized since 16.04 | 20:58 |
| waltman | thanks, but I really don't think that this is the issue in this case. | 21:04 |
| waltman | because despite the method that I used, as I said several times already, it only installed a few packages all related to the kernel. | 21:05 |
| r00t^2 | did your video drivers get updated? | 21:11 |
| waltman | No. I checked and as of midnight I'm running the latest and greatest nvidia drivers. And they haven't changed since I built the box over the holidays. | 21:20 |
| r00t^2 | doesn't matter what driver version, it matters that the drivers exist for the specific kernel version | 21:22 |
| r00t^2 | ^^^ "(it's actually a kernel module, and different module versions are kept for different kernel versions)" | 21:22 |
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