[04:20] <waltman> Anyone ever seen this before? http://paste.ubuntu.com/23779865/
[04:23] <pleia2> is your user in the nopasswdlogin group?
[04:24] <waltman> no
[04:24] <pleia2> (and do you have it configured to log you in without a password?)
[04:24] <waltman> I just tried switching to unity, and now it seems completely hung
[04:24] <waltman> I rebooted a zillion times up to a few days ago and it was always fine.
[04:25] <pleia2> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1511824 seems to indicate others have had problems
[04:25] <waltman> Yeah, I've seen reports from the past, but I don't see what they did to fix it.
[04:26] <pleia2> yeah, I've never seen it :\
[04:26] <waltman> I think I'm going to have to reboot just to get a login prompt back.
[04:32] <waltman> I just restarted because I seemed hung, and now I see a message during shutdown saying "a start job is running for Unattended Upgrades Shutdown". What does that mean?
[04:32] <waltman> And can I just hit the reset button?
[10:50] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
[15:00] <waltman> So my temporary fix to my issues from last night was to reboot back into 4.8.0-32 instead of the new -34.
[15:03] <waltman> And again I seem to be getting ignored by #ubuntu :(
[15:39] <waltman> So if #ubuntu remains unresponsive tonight, where's the best place to ask questions about it? The ubuntu-users mailing list?
[16:15] <jthan> waltman: ubuntu forums
[16:34] <waltman> jthan: Ugh. So is this "General Help" or "Desktop Environments"?
[16:35] <jthan> I don't know.
[16:36] <waltman> My experience with these sorts of forums in the past is that once your issue falls off the first page it disappears.
[17:11] <waltman> Well, I'm trying to post a new thread to the General forum, but it's just hanging. This isn't really inspiring a lot of confidence in me.
[17:11] <waltman> mailing lists > web forums
[17:12] <waltman> Maybe if I go get lunch it'll be finished by the time I get back.
[17:16] <jthan> Nobody would ever subscribe to a mailing list that was getting 20k emails/day
[17:19] <waltman> Oh well. We'll see if anyone responds.
[17:20] <waltman> I find it much easier to deal with high-traffic lists in mutt than with web forums
[18:55] <waltman> One nice thing about web forums is that you can see how many people read your post and decided to not answer it. :)
[18:56] <jthan> or perhaps they just didn't know how
[19:22] <waltman> I didn't see any solutions in the previous postings.
[19:22] <waltman> They did, however, have *some* replies…
[19:53] <waltman> Will I get notified if anyone does reply?
[19:56] <jthan> do your notification settings indicate that you will?
[20:09] <rmg51> waltman: probably the best way to deal with this is to wait till the next kernel update. sometimes a new kernel will fix an old problem
[20:09]  * waltman hunts around for his notificaiton settings…
[20:11] <waltman> It seems I can't even see, let alone modify, any of my settings until after I've made 10 posts. WTF? WTAF?
[20:12] <waltman> rmg51: I've been thinking of that too, but it still seems bizarre that a kernel change could prevent me from logging into the gui.
[20:13] <rmg51> I've had problems in the past where that was the easiest fix
[20:15] <waltman> If it's not some weird conflict with the nvidia driver, I can't imagine what else might cause it. But then I also don't see how it could even draw the login screen!
[20:16] <jthan> so your issue is that you just cna't log in..?
[20:16] <r00t^2> well based on the logs you pasted the other day, i'd presume it's a PAM error
[20:16] <r00t^2> which a kernel update definitely wouldn't fix
[20:16] <jthan> or break, most likely
[20:16] <r00t^2> well, right
[20:17] <waltman> So then why was I able to reboot into the old kernel and login successfully.
[20:17] <r00t^2> waltman: well, that depends on what boot options are in your bootloader. if i had to guess, something with the security policy's getting futzed
[20:18] <waltman> also I haven't knowingly touched anything with pam, and the updates didn't seem to have anything to do with them
[20:18] <r00t^2> you can still log in on a TTY on the broken kernel version, right?
[20:18] <waltman> I didn't try, but ssh worked.
[20:18] <r00t^2> i can't recall the default ubuntu sshd_config, but it's possible for sshd to bypass PAM
[20:18] <waltman> I wasn't sure how to get to a tty on that box
[20:19] <r00t^2> ctrl+alt+f1
[20:19] <r00t^2> if that doesn't work, f2. if that doesn't work, f3 etc.
[20:21] <r00t^2> as a quick test, you can also try adding yourself to the no password group in the lightdm config and restarting lightdm, then trying to log in
[20:21] <waltman> it was reporting something like that. But again, what does that have to do with the kernel?
[20:21] <r00t^2> which should bypass pam_kwallet5.so, from what i understand, which is what's complaining in the logs
[20:22] <waltman> there's no pam_kwallet5.so on this box
[20:22] <r00t^2> you did an updatedb;locate pam_kwallet5.so ?
[20:23] <r00t^2> and as for your question, that's a complicated answer. essentially, kernel -> apparmor -> pam -> userland
[20:23] <waltman> it should run updatedb every night, shouldn't it?
[20:23] <r00t^2> not if you aren't running a cron daemon or it doesn't have a systemd timer
[20:25] <waltman> mlocate.db was updated at 00:42 this morning.
[20:25] <r00t^2> okay. and you're using KDE as your DE?
[20:25] <waltman> KDE? No, whatever the default is. lightdm, I think.
[20:25] <r00t^2> that's your login/display manager
[20:25] <r00t^2> lightdm doesn't even have an associated DE
[20:26] <waltman> oh, then I guess gnome.
[20:26] <r00t^2> default for ubuntu vanilla is cinnamon, iirc
[20:26] <r00t^2> which is still confounding why it wants kwallet, but whatever
[20:26] <waltman> I'm running whatever the default is.
[20:27] <r00t^2> okay. and what version did you dist-upgrade to?
[20:27] <r00t^2> seems you aren't the only one, assuming it's 16.04.1: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1511824
[20:27] <waltman> https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2349132
[20:28] <waltman> Thanks for telling me about the same old bug I included in my forum post :)
[20:29] <waltman> also that's from over a year ago.
[20:29] <r00t^2> ah, 16.10. might still be present (the last post is from november. it's jan 11. "last year" means little). have you tried adding your user to the video group?
[20:31] <r00t^2> and did you change the default session to be explicit, per http://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=15300 (which is linked to in that bug report)
[20:32] <waltman> I haven't done either of those things. And I'm not home now to try them out.
[20:33] <r00t^2> well, you've got a place to start then
[20:36] <waltman> I still don't see how either of those things should change so radically in a point release of a kernel.
[20:43] <r00t^2> 15:23:17 < r00t^2> and as for your question, that's a complicated answer. essentially, kernel -> apparmor -> pam -> userland
[20:44] <r00t^2> a dist-upgrade updates a shit-ton, not just the kernel
[20:45] <r00t^2> directly, it's likely closer related to the video driver and requiring your user be in the video group, which wasn't present in the video driver the previous kernel uses
[20:45] <waltman> No, dist-upgrade is just an upgrade with some different dependency checking.
[20:45] <r00t^2> what do you think the "dist" means in "dist-upgrade"?
[20:45] <waltman> I'm using Nvidia's video driver.
[20:45] <waltman> also, why does the kernel have a video driver?
[20:46] <r00t^2> because where else would a video driver be? (it's actually a kernel module, and different module versions are kept for different kernel versions)
[20:46] <waltman> I see nothing about nvidia in the release notes.
[20:46] <r00t^2> do you want to argue with me or do you want to try solutions?
[20:47] <r00t^2> i can do either, i'd just like a straight answer
[20:47] <waltman> Well, seeing as how you don't seem to know what dist-upgrade does...
[20:47] <r00t^2> alright, let's boot my ubuntu vm up. hold on
[20:47] <waltman> please read the man page for apt-get
[20:47] <waltman> it installed like 4 packages, all related to the kernel.
[20:48] <r00t^2> did you try full-upgrade?
[20:49] <r00t^2> did you update your sources.lst to use 16.10?
[20:50] <jthan> LOL
[20:50] <jthan> Using upgrade keeps to the rule: under no circumstances are currently installed packages removed, or packages not already installed retrieved and installed. If that's important to you, use apt-get upgrade. If you want things to "just work", you probably want apt-get dist-upgrade to ensure dependencies are resolved.
[20:50] <r00t^2> lel
[20:50] <waltman> Why do you think I just did an upgrade to 16.10?
[20:50] <waltman> That's NOT what dist-upgrade does.
[20:51] <waltman> I built this box with 16.10.
[20:53] <r00t^2> wasn't apt-get obsoleteted in favor of apt?
[20:53] <r00t^2> obsoleted even
[20:53] <jthan> same thing
[20:53] <jthan> just different name
[20:53] <jthan> apt-get install -> apt install
[20:53] <r00t^2> jthan: they aren't, actually
[20:54] <r00t^2> check the man pages. :)
[20:54] <jthan> hell if I'm spinning that garbage up
[20:54] <jthan>        install, remove, purge (apt-get(8))
[20:54] <jthan> ^ that's in man apt
[20:55] <waltman> I don't see anything in the apt-get manpage saying it's obsolete.
[20:55] <jthan> well it was certainly replaced.
[20:58] <r00t^2> dist-upgrade was created to upgrade to a newer release. hence the name. whether that's the way it's used now, i have no idea. but presumably you're going to want to use apt rather than apt-get since it's standardized since 16.04
[21:04] <waltman> thanks, but I really don't think that this is the issue in this case.
[21:05] <waltman> because despite the method that I used, as I said several times already, it only installed a few packages all related to the kernel.
[21:11] <r00t^2> did your video drivers get updated?
[21:20] <waltman> No. I checked and as of midnight I'm running the latest and greatest nvidia drivers. And they haven't changed since I built the box over the holidays.
[21:22] <r00t^2> doesn't matter what driver version, it matters that the drivers exist for the specific kernel version
[21:22] <r00t^2> ^^^ "(it's actually a kernel module, and different module versions are kept for different kernel versions)"