[01:56] flocculant: thanks for confirming the bug [02:46] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.04 - i386 - i386 built. [03:07] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.04 - amd64 - amd64 built. === Justanick1 is now known as Justanick === Justanick1 is now known as Justanick [21:00] evening everyone [21:05] hello sir [21:10] how's everything? [21:11] that's a broad question [21:11] so i'll just say [21:11] everything is as everything is [21:12] so xangua was mentioning doing some OEM installations with xubuntu [21:12] i know we don't support that yet, but we really should look at it [21:12] it would need testing, so we'll need to convince akxwi-dave (and probably flocculant too) [21:15] what specifically would need testing? [21:16] if we enable the OEM installation, we should make sure the OEM setup works [21:16] do you know what that does? [21:16] or in general what i'm talking about? [21:16] s/enable/tell we support/ [21:17] (that's a real question, i don't know if you are familiar with it or not) [21:32] not really familiar with it [21:32] ok, so with OEM, person A technically installs xubuntu, but the choose the OEM option [21:32] at this point they usually give out the system to somebody else, because... [21:33] when person B opens the computer, they get the "first boot" questions like "who are you" etc. [21:33] that data is then used to actually set up the system, the first user etc. [21:34] (as a sidenote, there's also a possibility to show a (different) "installer" slideshow for person B) [21:34] so what would need testing is that if the OEM installer (that person B uses) is able to set up things correctly [21:35] because obviously, person A (who is often the tech-minded person here, while person B definitely isn't) can't check that [21:35] because then they'd essentially do the OEM setup as well, so they might just as well install directly [21:36] i'm pretty sure you can set some bit to make the OEM install run again, but that still doesn't solve our problem [21:36] the issue xangua was hitting is that some locales weren't set correctly [21:37] eg. he tried to install in spanish, but got the "kl" locale (kalaallisut) for time, for example [21:37] so the clock on the panel said something really weird [21:38] i'm pretty sure this particular issue isn't xubuntu-specific, but we should make sure it isn't, and that there aren't other issues that are [21:38] so practically this would help people who help set up systems for other people [21:39] not the regular user who installs for themselves [21:39] unless they're a bit weird like ubottu [21:39] i mean Unit193 [21:39] (: [21:41] Never used OEM. [21:41] i didn't say you used OEM, i said you are weird [21:41] (: [21:42] OK, won't refute that part. [21:42] so basically OEM means you customize/prep the image for others..? [21:42] no [21:42] it means you'll install the system for them [21:42] and they only have to insert their user data [21:42] so what a computer repair shop could do [21:43] ochosi: Means that on first setup is when it asks you for user/host/language, not during install. [21:43] EG, when you buy a computer from the store. [21:43] exactly [21:43] right [21:43] like windows does [21:43] haven't set up windows in forever [21:43] but if that OEM installer part makes the locale fails [21:43] so i wouldn't know [21:43] then it's probably more harmful than helpful [21:44] so that's the reason we should do some OEM testing [21:44] that isn't arch dependent, so one good thing [21:45] but it should still be done more than once in a cycle [21:45] ochosi, re: custom images; we have that page for derivatives, so we could list stuff there [21:46] Unit193, isn't the documentation for creating custom images a bit bad generally? [21:46] or is it just confusing because it's "so hard"? [21:46] is it really that hard? [21:47] to be frank, i've never tried/cared [21:47] me neither [21:47] but aiui, the documentation is bad [21:47] but i may give it a shot now, may even need it at work [21:47] http://xubuntu.org/dev/derivatives/ [21:47] we don't point to anything there [21:48] it would be useful/nice to have some kind of pointer to something that helps you remove the things we want you to remoev [21:49] knome: ok, i always follow this guide https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomizationFromScratch [21:49] HiddenDjinn, a quick recap: we're specifically discussing improving http://xubuntu.org/dev/derivatives/ to have at least some pointers to help remove the stuff we want derivatives to remove [21:50] my problem with that page is that it is awfully long (which is probably fair), but more importantly, that it has the discussion in it [21:50] i'm an admin on that wiki so i could probably move the discussion away, but as i don't know much about the subject, i'm not sure if that would be wise [21:50] at least the "best advice" on the comments should be merged on the article itself [21:51] also, they talk about bugs in 12.04 and earlier - any of the releases mentioned there aren't supported soon [21:51] so it might need some cleaning up [21:51] also some specific notes for 10.04 and 9.04 [21:53] knome: agreed, it needs cleaning up [21:55] i give all my support for doing that [21:56] can also help with wiki-technical things and act as an "authority" for acking to move the comments away from the page after the good things are merged in the article (if any) [21:57] knome: well, i'll take a look and mark what works and what needs to change about the guide if you like [21:58] that would be helpful - not just for us, but way more people [21:58] and thanks [21:58] and feel free to poke me here about it [21:59] i haven't made any paranoid liveusb's lately(paranoid being not trusting the data to be off my person at any time, therefore having a full system on a usb) [21:59] heh [21:59] i don't think that's a requirement on editing that page ;) [21:59] knome: but making one is a requirement for refining the process for others [22:00] sure [22:00] knome: i can do it with virtual machines, and get back to you on it [22:00] but you can edit the stuff that isn't related to that [22:00] and if you need help with paranoid stuff, refer to Unit193 [22:00] or krytarik [22:01] btw, ttf-mscorefonts-installer isn't working properly in 16.04 [22:01] i think the files it needs have been moved [22:01] i know... [22:01] not sure how maintains that package though [22:02] s/how/who/ [22:02] sigh, don't try to listen at something while you type something completely different [22:03] How? Who? I'm confused! [22:03] krytarik, what's the news there? (: [22:03] True. [22:05] the maintainer seems to be the debian maintainer [22:05] yeah, likely synced directly from there [22:09] there's a workaround... [22:09] involves installing a new debian package in place of the ubuntu package [22:09] well, i'd just like to get the package itself fixed :) [22:09] anyways, i almost always build from the mini iso when building a new custom image [22:09] knome: agreed [22:10] Unit193, krytarik: could you pleeeease look at that, at least a bit? (: [22:10] eg. is a patch/updated thing on the way [22:11] or maybe there's a bug report [22:12] knome: there are bug reports [22:12] knome: i've seen that much [22:13] ok [22:13] have you seen anybody comment on one and saying they're doing something about it? :P [22:13] not yet [22:13] meh. [22:13] HiddenDjinn: ...Building off the non-live, debian-installer which debootstraps the system? [22:13] Unit193: i usually build off the live mini iso [22:15] * Unit193 scrathes head. [22:16] mini remix, i think it's called [22:16] Huh, OK. [22:17] Unit193: i'm not good with remembering exact terms [22:17] Unit193: sorry [22:18] That's fine, I was just thinking of the mini iso in that case. [22:18] Unit193: i use ubuntu customization kit along with that to add packages i need or think i need [22:19] ochosi: So you're just asking due to the derivs page? [22:20] Unit193, he wanted to do his own remix/derivative [22:20] i asked for the derivs page [22:21] Ooooh, sounds "fun" [22:21] knome: hmmm...that means he wants to customize the list in ubiquity, right? [22:21] i don't know what ochosi wants to do [22:22] but the derivatives should technically do that [22:22] not sure if that's something that needs to be on the wiki page mentioned [22:23] knome: and, to make it easier to handle, for a custom mix(like to be installed on multiple systems), one would probably be best served by making a custom meta package, depending on all packages the person wants to install, as well as puts the custom config files in place at the end [22:23] maybe [22:23] but that's something for the derivatives to think for themselves [22:24] sorry, i've had a rough day, so i just came in a few minutes ago and took four shots due to said day before getting online [22:24] iu don't know what the policy for that is, but i'm pretty sure they don't get them uploaded to the ubuntu repositories [22:24] so it would be on the ISO only (unless they enabled their own repositories, which is a far stretch) [22:24] knome: right [22:25] anyway i'd say that's out of our scope, and the wiki page as well [22:25] knome: if it was recognized as a custom spin, wouldn't there be a package that installs it on a running system, not unlike ubuntustudio [22:25] Unit193 does something like that though [22:25] Not quite. [22:26] HiddenDjinn, officially recognized flavors are a different thing [22:26] knome: ok [22:26] we're talking about derivatives of flavors, specifically xubuntu [22:26] (and could be a derivative of ubuntu too) [22:26] knome: oh, the derivative iso/img would exist only on the iso, and maybe in a custom repo [22:27] yes [22:27] the former is often the case [22:27] knome: pardon my semi-drunkenness [22:27] no worries :) [22:27] custom repo's maybe, often PPA [22:27] knome: right [22:28] but again, that's a bit out of the scope for xubuntu [22:28] what's the difference between a ppa and a custom repo? [22:28] might be touching the wiki page scope a bit [22:28] the way i consider that is that PPA is just additional packages, custom repository is a full repository of all packages [22:28] yeah, so i can take a look at the wiki you pointed me to and see where it needs to be updated [22:28] but that's terminology; yes, PPA is also a custom repo [22:28] Personal Package Archive, generally tends to refer to one on LP. [22:31] that first red flag regarding jaunty is no longer relevant [22:31] i can say that right now [22:31] we don't support jaunty [22:31] in april, nothing regarding precise of before is relevant [22:32] that's kind of the easy part of the cleanup [22:32] knome: That's fixed in Zesty already, and will have to be SRU'd for the other ones - LP bugs 1607535 and 1651923. [22:32] Launchpad bug 1607535 in msttcorefonts (Ubuntu) "ttf-mscorefonts-installer 3.4+nmu1ubuntu2 fails to install core fonts" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1607535 [22:32] Launchpad bug 1651923 in apt (Ubuntu Yakkety) "apt https method decodes redirect locations and sends them to the destination undecoded." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1651923 [22:33] another small thing is making all places where it says CD to say disc [22:33] krytarik, nice, thanks! [22:33] Sure. [22:39] knome: well, some of the references to precise are still valid with yackety(i think that's 16.04) [22:39] right, then that just needs updating [22:39] that's the harder part :) [22:39] xenial [22:41] also, there are portions of precise still supported until april [22:41] yes, that's why i said "in april" :) [22:41] knome: yeah... [22:41] knome: if you aren't easily offended, i'll /msg you what i first thought [22:41] not at all [23:37] anyways, when the site LETS me, i'll edit [23:38] :) [23:44] ok, i can see it again, so time to get virtualbox installed so i can test this [23:51] cool