[01:56] <a1fa> flocculant: thanks for confirming the bug
[02:46] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.04 - i386 - i386 built.
[03:07] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ATTN: Xubuntu Core 17.04 - amd64 - amd64 built.
[21:00] <ochosi> evening everyone
[21:05] <knome> hello sir
[21:10] <ochosi> how's everything?
[21:11] <knome> that's a broad question
[21:11] <knome> so i'll just say
[21:11] <knome> everything is as everything is
[21:12] <knome> so xangua was mentioning doing some OEM installations with xubuntu
[21:12] <knome> i know we don't support that yet, but we really should look at it
[21:12] <knome> it would need testing, so we'll need to convince akxwi-dave (and probably flocculant too)
[21:15] <ochosi> what specifically would need testing?
[21:16] <knome> if we enable the OEM installation, we should make sure the OEM setup works
[21:16] <knome> do you know what that does?
[21:16] <knome> or in general what i'm talking about?
[21:16] <knome> s/enable/tell we support/
[21:17] <knome> (that's a real question, i don't know if you are familiar with it or not)
[21:32] <ochosi> not really familiar with it
[21:32] <knome> ok, so with OEM, person A technically installs xubuntu, but the choose the OEM option
[21:32] <knome> at this point they usually give out the system to somebody else, because...
[21:33] <knome> when person B opens the computer, they get the "first boot" questions like "who are you" etc.
[21:33] <knome> that data is then used to actually set up the system, the first user etc.
[21:34] <knome> (as a sidenote, there's also a possibility to show a (different) "installer" slideshow for person B)
[21:34] <knome> so what would need testing is that if the OEM installer (that person B uses) is able to set up things correctly
[21:35] <knome> because obviously, person A (who is often the tech-minded person here, while person B definitely isn't) can't check that
[21:35] <knome> because then they'd essentially do the OEM setup as well, so they might just as well install directly
[21:36] <knome> i'm pretty sure you can set some bit to make the OEM install run again, but that still doesn't solve our problem
[21:36] <knome> the issue xangua was hitting is that some locales weren't set correctly
[21:37] <knome> eg. he tried to install in spanish, but got the "kl" locale (kalaallisut) for time, for example
[21:37] <knome> so the clock on the panel said something really weird
[21:38] <knome> i'm pretty sure this particular issue isn't xubuntu-specific, but we should make sure it isn't, and that there aren't other issues that are
[21:38] <knome> so practically this would help people who help set up systems for other people
[21:39] <knome> not the regular user who installs for themselves
[21:39] <knome> unless they're a bit weird like ubottu 
[21:39] <knome> i mean Unit193 
[21:39] <knome> (:
[21:41] <Unit193> Never used OEM.
[21:41] <knome> i didn't say you used OEM, i said you are weird
[21:41] <knome> (:
[21:42] <Unit193> OK, won't refute that part.
[21:42] <ochosi> so basically OEM means you customize/prep the image for others..?
[21:42] <knome> no
[21:42] <knome> it means you'll install the system for them
[21:42] <knome> and they only have to insert their user data
[21:42] <knome> so what a computer repair shop could do
[21:43] <Unit193> ochosi: Means that on first setup is when it asks you for user/host/language, not during install.
[21:43] <Unit193> EG, when you buy a computer from the store.
[21:43] <knome> exactly
[21:43] <ochosi> right
[21:43] <knome> like windows does
[21:43] <ochosi> haven't set up windows in forever
[21:43] <knome> but if that OEM installer part makes the locale fails
[21:43] <ochosi> so i wouldn't know
[21:43] <knome> then it's probably more harmful than helpful
[21:44] <knome> so that's the reason we should do some OEM testing
[21:44] <knome> that isn't arch dependent, so one good thing
[21:45] <knome> but it should still be done more than once in a cycle
[21:45] <knome> ochosi, re: custom images; we have that page for derivatives, so we could list stuff there
[21:46] <knome> Unit193, isn't the documentation for creating custom images a bit bad generally?
[21:46] <knome> or is it just confusing because it's "so hard"?
[21:46] <ochosi> is it really that hard?
[21:47] <ochosi> to be frank, i've never tried/cared
[21:47] <knome> me neither
[21:47] <knome> but aiui, the documentation is bad
[21:47] <ochosi> but i may give it a shot now, may even need it at work
[21:47] <knome> http://xubuntu.org/dev/derivatives/
[21:47] <knome> we don't point to anything there
[21:48] <knome> it would be useful/nice to have some kind of pointer to something that helps you remove the things we want you to remoev
[21:49] <HiddenDjinn> knome: ok, i always follow this guide https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomizationFromScratch
[21:49] <knome> HiddenDjinn, a quick recap: we're specifically discussing improving http://xubuntu.org/dev/derivatives/ to have at least some pointers to help remove the stuff we want derivatives to remove 
[21:50] <knome> my problem with that page is that it is awfully long (which is probably fair), but more importantly, that it has the discussion in it
[21:50] <knome> i'm an admin on that wiki so i could probably move the discussion away, but as i don't know much about the subject, i'm not sure if that would be wise
[21:50] <knome> at least the "best advice" on the comments should be merged on the article itself
[21:51] <knome> also, they talk about bugs in 12.04 and earlier - any of the releases mentioned there aren't supported soon
[21:51] <knome> so it might need some cleaning up
[21:51] <knome> also some specific notes for 10.04 and 9.04
[21:53] <HiddenDjinn> knome: agreed, it needs cleaning up
[21:55] <knome> i give all my support for doing that
[21:56] <knome> can also help with wiki-technical things and act as an "authority" for acking to move the comments away from the page after the good things are merged in the article (if any)
[21:57] <HiddenDjinn> knome: well, i'll take a look and mark what works and what needs to change about the guide if you like
[21:58] <knome> that would be helpful - not just for us, but way more people
[21:58] <knome> and thanks
[21:58] <knome> and feel free to poke me here about it
[21:59] <HiddenDjinn> i haven't made any paranoid liveusb's lately(paranoid being not trusting the data to be off my person at any time, therefore having a full system on a usb)
[21:59] <knome> heh
[21:59] <knome> i don't think that's a requirement on editing that page ;)
[21:59] <HiddenDjinn> knome: but making one is a requirement for refining the process for others
[22:00] <knome> sure
[22:00] <HiddenDjinn> knome: i can do it with virtual machines, and get back to you on it
[22:00] <knome> but you can edit the stuff that isn't related to that
[22:00] <knome> and if you need help with paranoid stuff, refer to Unit193 
[22:00] <knome> or krytarik 
[22:01] <HiddenDjinn> btw, ttf-mscorefonts-installer isn't working properly in 16.04
[22:01] <HiddenDjinn> i think the files it needs have been moved
[22:01] <knome> i know...
[22:01] <knome> not sure how maintains that package though
[22:02] <knome> s/how/who/
[22:02] <knome> sigh, don't try to listen at something while you type something completely different
[22:03] <krytarik> How?  Who?  I'm confused!
[22:03] <knome> krytarik, what's the news there? (:
[22:03] <krytarik> True.
[22:05] <HiddenDjinn> the maintainer seems to be the debian maintainer
[22:05] <knome> yeah, likely synced directly from there
[22:09] <HiddenDjinn> there's a workaround...
[22:09] <HiddenDjinn> involves installing a new debian package in place of the ubuntu package
[22:09] <knome> well, i'd just like to get the package itself fixed :)
[22:09] <HiddenDjinn> anyways, i almost always build from the mini iso when building a new custom image
[22:09] <HiddenDjinn> knome: agreed
[22:10] <knome> Unit193, krytarik: could you pleeeease look at that, at least a bit? (:
[22:10] <knome> eg. is a patch/updated thing on the way
[22:11] <knome> or maybe there's a bug report
[22:12] <HiddenDjinn> knome: there are bug reports
[22:12] <HiddenDjinn> knome: i've seen that much
[22:13] <knome> ok
[22:13] <knome> have you seen anybody comment on one and saying they're doing something about it? :P
[22:13] <HiddenDjinn> not yet
[22:13] <knome> meh.
[22:13] <Unit193> HiddenDjinn: ...Building off the non-live, debian-installer which debootstraps the system?
[22:13] <HiddenDjinn> Unit193: i usually build off the live mini iso
[22:15]  * Unit193 scrathes head.
[22:16] <HiddenDjinn> mini remix, i think it's called
[22:16] <Unit193> Huh, OK.
[22:17] <HiddenDjinn> Unit193: i'm not good with remembering exact terms
[22:17] <HiddenDjinn> Unit193: sorry
[22:18] <Unit193> That's fine, I was just thinking of the mini iso in that case.
[22:18] <HiddenDjinn> Unit193: i use ubuntu customization kit along with that to add packages i need or think i need
[22:19] <Unit193> ochosi: So you're just asking due to the derivs page?
[22:20] <knome> Unit193, he wanted to do his own remix/derivative
[22:20] <knome> i asked for the derivs page
[22:21] <Unit193> Ooooh, sounds "fun"
[22:21] <HiddenDjinn> knome: hmmm...that means he wants to customize the list in ubiquity, right?
[22:21] <knome> i don't know what ochosi wants to do
[22:22] <knome> but the derivatives should technically do that
[22:22] <knome> not sure if that's something that needs to be on the wiki page mentioned
[22:23] <HiddenDjinn> knome: and, to make it easier to handle, for a custom mix(like to be installed on multiple systems), one would probably be best served by making a custom meta package, depending on all packages the person wants to install, as well as puts the custom config files in place at the end
[22:23] <knome> maybe
[22:23] <knome> but that's something for the derivatives to think for themselves
[22:24] <HiddenDjinn> sorry, i've had a rough day, so i just came in a few minutes ago and took four shots due to said day before getting online
[22:24] <knome> iu don't know what the policy for that is, but i'm pretty sure they don't get them uploaded to the ubuntu repositories
[22:24] <knome> so it would be on the ISO only (unless they enabled their own repositories, which is a far stretch)
[22:24] <HiddenDjinn> knome: right
[22:25] <knome> anyway i'd say that's out of our scope, and the wiki page as well
[22:25] <HiddenDjinn> knome: if it was recognized as a custom spin, wouldn't there be a package that installs it on a running system, not unlike ubuntustudio
[22:25] <knome> Unit193 does something like that though
[22:25] <Unit193> Not quite.
[22:26] <knome> HiddenDjinn, officially recognized flavors are a different thing
[22:26] <HiddenDjinn> knome: ok
[22:26] <knome> we're talking about derivatives of flavors, specifically xubuntu
[22:26] <knome> (and could be a derivative of ubuntu too)
[22:26] <HiddenDjinn> knome: oh, the derivative iso/img would exist only on the iso, and maybe in a custom repo
[22:27] <knome> yes
[22:27] <knome> the former is often the case
[22:27] <HiddenDjinn> knome: pardon my semi-drunkenness
[22:27] <knome> no worries :)
[22:27] <knome> custom repo's maybe, often PPA
[22:27] <HiddenDjinn> knome: right
[22:28] <knome> but again, that's a bit out of the scope for xubuntu
[22:28] <HiddenDjinn> what's the difference between a ppa and a custom repo?
[22:28] <knome> might be touching the wiki page scope a bit
[22:28] <knome> the way i consider that is that PPA is just additional packages, custom repository is a full repository of all packages
[22:28] <HiddenDjinn> yeah, so i can take a look at the wiki you pointed me to and see where it needs to be updated
[22:28] <knome> but that's terminology; yes, PPA is also a custom repo
[22:28] <Unit193> Personal Package Archive, generally tends to refer to one on LP.
[22:31] <HiddenDjinn> that first red flag regarding jaunty is no longer relevant
[22:31] <HiddenDjinn> i can say that right now
[22:31] <HiddenDjinn> we don't support jaunty
[22:31] <knome> in april, nothing regarding precise of before is relevant
[22:32] <knome> that's kind of the easy part of the cleanup
[22:32] <krytarik> knome: That's fixed in Zesty already, and will have to be SRU'd for the other ones - LP bugs 1607535 and 1651923.
[22:33] <knome> another small thing is making all places where it says CD to say disc
[22:33] <knome> krytarik, nice, thanks!
[22:33] <krytarik> Sure.
[22:39] <HiddenDjinn> knome: well, some of the references to precise are still valid with yackety(i think that's 16.04)
[22:39] <knome> right, then that just needs updating
[22:39] <knome> that's the harder part :)
[22:39] <HiddenDjinn> xenial
[22:41] <HiddenDjinn> also, there are portions of precise still supported until april
[22:41] <knome> yes, that's why i said "in april" :)
[22:41] <HiddenDjinn> knome: yeah...
[22:41] <HiddenDjinn> knome: if you aren't easily offended, i'll /msg you what i first thought
[22:41] <knome> not at all
[23:37] <HiddenDjinn> anyways, when the site LETS me, i'll edit
[23:38] <knome> :)
[23:44] <HiddenDjinn> ok, i can see it again, so time to get virtualbox installed so i can test this
[23:51] <knome> cool