HiddenDjinnquestion, does apt replace apt-get in trusty or in xenial?06:19
flocculantknome:re OEM -  flocculant brought this up some time ago and was put of caring by knome who did a good job07:34
flocculantHiddenDjinn: xenial - and it's not replaced as such, just added07:36
HiddenDjinnflocculant: ok, thanks07:37
flocculantknome: further - given that testing we get for normal iso's is pretty pathetic so not really why anyone would think adding things is useful07:39
flocculants/not really sure07:39
HiddenDjinnflocculant: i got you07:39
HiddenDjinns/not really why/not really sure why/07:40
HiddenDjinnfixed that for you07:40
flocculantand by adding things - I mean making testing harder - not the OEM thing - which I cared about once ;)07:41
HiddenDjinnoem thing?07:43
HiddenDjinni dropped out of the linux world for a bit...i think i need background07:43
flocculantHiddenDjinn: a discussion that happened while I was asleep 07:45
flocculantinstalling system - without user data - user adds that at first boot - like you get when you buy a pc pre-loaded windows 07:46
HiddenDjinnflocculant: ok...contemplating sleep myself, soon07:46
flocculantochosi bluesabre - some I suppose useful info - I appeared to have an iso kicking about here from 3rd Jan - lock was broken there08:09
* flocculant suggests that we add lock/suspend testing to the post install test which currently doesn't test much 08:11
flocculant!team | ^^08:11
ubottu^^: akxwi-dave, bluesabre, dkessel, flocculant, jjfrv8, knome, krytarik, micahg, Noskcaj, ochosi, pleia2, slickymaster and Unit19308:11
dkesselmakes sense, +108:12
flocculantknome: re OEM - at least in vm - reboot to end user crashes ... 08:13
flocculantflexiondotorg: before I start digging around - should oem work in a vm? just getting black screen here ... 08:15
flocculantknome: one more OEM point - while you say we don't support it - we don't say that anywhere and OEM install is there on our iso just like it is anyone else's08:30
flexiondotorgflocculant Last time I tested, yes it does,08:35
flexiondotorgBut I'm seeing some regressions in Ubiquity when testing on Friday night.08:35
akxwi-daveflocculant: agree  +110:22
ochosiknome, bluesabre: we should have a brief discussion at some point about an inactive team members cleanup11:44
flocculantflexiondotorg: thanks11:58
flocculantochosi bluesabre - thoughts on adding lock to a testcase? 11:58
flocculantcan't see a problem with it tbh - better than not knowing *when* it failed11:59
knomeochosi, i'm around for that now for example12:04
knometbe, now would be a very good time even12:05
knomeflocculant, re: OEM: yes, i understand it's one more thing to test - but also yes, it's on our ISO whether we want it or not12:06
knomeflocculant, and iirc i didn't say we don't want it, it wasn't the highest priority then (and it still isn't)12:07
knomeflocculant, i might recall wrong as well though :P12:07
knomebut yes, the problem is testing, but it's also a problem if somebody does an OEM install and then the end user is left with a completely broken or awkward system12:07
knomei don't know if we can hide the OEM option either?12:08
flocculantindeed 12:08
knomei mean, completely remove it from xubuntu12:08
flocculantthough oem install is something that we'd not be supporting 'personally' so would be a case of report it12:08
knomeyes... at least primarily12:08
flocculantnot sure whether that's possible12:09
knomemy gut feeling is that most of the issues with OEM comes from upstream anyway12:09
knomei'm pretty sure we can't12:09
knomeand aren't qualified enough to look12:09
flocculantyou and me both then ;)12:09
knomeyep ;)12:09
flocculanteasy enough to add it to the testcase list - and make it optional or something12:10
knomeso i guess the least thing we could do is run the OEM installation once or twice (not per cycle or within regular testing - literally just once or twice) and report any issues we find12:10
knomeand yeah, optional testing could work as well, as long as we make it clear that it's probably the least important thing and the fact that it is a test doesn't mean it's supported - or will be12:10
flocculantwe could have a 'Final BETA test' like we currently have for core12:10
flocculanteg - just sits there all cycle adding up as tests get run12:11
knomei'm thinking the OEM install is most useful with LTS's anyway12:11
knomehmmh, not sure if we want to put more stuff on the final beta12:11
knomeit's already quite busy12:11
flocculantmy point re testing remains - if 1 or 2 people are testing it only on vm - what point is there in that12:12
knomenot only for testing, but if bugs appear, it's likely that the other bugs will be always higher priority12:12
flocculantwell Beta or something - just flinging ideas about atm12:12
knomebut then i'm not sure how much hardware is really concerned with the OEM stuff12:12
knomei mean it's a regular install, you only flip one bit and leave one software thing for after the installation12:12
flocculantwell what oem is going to send a vm?12:12
flocculantor why would you oem install a vm?12:13
knomenormally, you wouldn't12:13
knomei'm just trying to think of anything related to hardware that could break OEM12:13
knomeand can't come up with anything12:13
knomein other words, hardware-related stuff happens regardless of OEM12:14
flocculantand then we really get into makeing sure that 'our' minimum specs are good - if we test oem it should install and run satisfactorily on our minimum 12:14
knomesure, but again, it's the same installation really12:14
knomeonly the personal data input is moved after the installation12:14
knomebut sure, maybe once a cycle - or once an LTS cycle12:14
* knome checks our minimum specs12:15
flocculantbut if some oem or charity came along and decided they were going to chuck xubuntu oem on a bunch of machines they have for charity and it fails to run - that's our problem isn't it?12:15
flocculantwe've said it works for Xubuntu12:15
knomewe offer anything without liability...12:15
flocculantyea - I know that ;)12:16
knomeif we look at the "xubuntu at..." series, we can find many orgs are doing something like this with xubuntu12:16
flocculantall I'm saying is that ^^ is something we need to consider amongst eveerything else on the subject12:16
knomei don't think they are using OEM tbh, but...12:16
flocculantyea I know - which is where my original 'shoudl we do this' came from :12:17
knomewe say our minimum to install/try is 256MB12:17
knomeand to use is 512MB12:17
knomei've considered many times what is the point of having two numbers anyway12:17
knomeif you try with 256MB, are you *really* going to get a 256MB extra piece of memory to run it?12:17
bluesabreflocculant, I am in favor of adding that test12:17
flocculantI'd not want to run firefox and some other app at the same time on 512MB12:18
knomeme neither12:18
flocculantI'd have no screen in no time at all :D12:18
knomebut what is bearable is subjective12:18
knomeand we do word it like:12:18
bluesabreknome, install with 256, run with 512... don't imagine that's a typical use case12:18
knomeOnce installed, you should have at least 512 MB of memory.12:18
knomebluesabre, my point is, if you try/install with any amount less than the minimum to run, are you really going to add more memory after trying/installing?12:19
flocculantpersonally I'd be for upping that 12:19
knomelet's take that for the council meeting as well to hear what ochosi has to say12:19
flocculantyou'd be nuts to do that - you'd add the memory and then think mmm what can I install I couldn't before I guess12:20
knomethen at least pop those both to the same level at 512MB12:20
knomeflocculant, exactly12:20
bluesabreknome, nope12:20
flocculantfrankly I think we should be saying 1G 12:20
ochosii don't have time for a real meeting, but a 5min thing12:20
knomethat's our recommended12:20
ochosii'm @work atm12:20
knomelet's do a 5min for the team member stuff then12:20
knomehere or want to take it privatE?12:20
knome(privacy of concerned persons etc)12:21
* flocculant wanders off till later12:21
knomeflocculant, hf and ttyl :)12:21
flocculantabout more this week to cover point release12:21
ochosiknome: maybe private, but the ppl in question should mostly have received notice previously12:22
knomeinvited you two to a channel12:22
knomeochosi, bluesabre: ^12:23
ochosiknome: sry, had to leave13:03
ochosii have another 4min window *now*13:03
ochosiand i'm in said channel (alone)13:04
knomeno you're not13:04
jjfrv8flocculant, +1 to the lock/suspend testing13:12
flocculantsideways shuffle16:21
akxwi-daveold man shuffle.... 16:21
flocculantmp done for suspend/lock 16:36
flocculantakxwi-dave: if you've time https://code.launchpad.net/~flocculant/ubuntu-manual-tests/1656882/+merge/31486016:37
flocculantif not it will ping slickymaster :)16:37
akxwi-dave:-) approved...16:39
flocculantsuper :)16:40
flocculantakxwi-dave: all done - on tracker now16:47
flocculantand failed test on tracker too ;)16:49
akxwi-dave:-)   must admit, I always forget about  lock/suspend as its the first thing i turn off on any laptop... so never use it16:49
flocculantnot something I ever do unless someone else says it is broken ...16:51
flocculantand if people are running dev but not telling anyone - we don't know16:51
flocculanthence grabbing a1fa into here the other day :)16:52
flocculantochosi bluesabre appear to have found the lock culprit18:30
flocculantgrabbed old lightdm packages and worked through them till it stopped working 18:30
ubottuLaunchpad bug 1656399 in light-locker (Ubuntu) "Unable to unlock Xubuntu XFCE session after suspend." [Undecided,Confirmed]18:43
flocculant*appears* to be lightdm this time18:43
flocculantbluesabre: I assume you can set the importance on that bug from undecided to something entirely more suitable - like critical or something :p18:48
* flocculant wonders if it started failing with 1.21.2-0ubuntu1 - the one I can't appear to find 18:52
flocculantbluesabre: also robert ancell doesn't appear to be online so I can't ping him - maybe you will see him about later 19:02
flocculantcaught him in -desktop20:36
flocculantshould have known he would want lightdm.log20:51
flocculanthopefully they'll be able to add whatever broke to regression tests for locking functionality20:52
flocculantparaphrasing r_ancell 20:53

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