[00:00] <dobey> ps3/ps4 pad might work, but they pair via usb
[00:05] <popey> i tried a usb controller too via a usb to go adapter
[02:19] <juenn> hello! just want to ask if i will upgrade ubuntu 12 to 14 will it affect my installed web services? i have installed drupal on it
[02:25] <duflu> juenn: This would be the wrong channel. Try #ubuntu-desktop
[06:58] <zedroid> Hello! Is application from libertine allowed to interact with hardware? (Bluez with bluetooth hardware in my case)
[08:25] <Satyam2345> anyone here
[08:27] <zedroid> Maybe
[08:29] <zedroid> Regarding to the Chromium on libertine: I've found logs of Chromium upstart, problemis in the /proc/modules. libkmod: ERROR ../libkmod/libkmod-module.c:1638 kmod_module_new_from_loaded: could not open /proc/modules
[08:29] <zedroid> But I have no idea how to correct this
[09:21] <mcphail> popey: I knew you'd have tried :p
[09:37] <jgdx> dednick, ping
[09:37] <dednick> jgdx: hi
[09:39] <jgdx> dednick, hey, me and ahayzen are developing Printing (cups) bindings for ubuntu-print-app and ubuntu-system-settings. We really like to share most of it, so we've decided to put them in ubuntu-settings-components. This is just a heads up, as you may be asked to take a look. Also, if you think it may be outside the scope of u-s-c, please let us know.
[09:41] <jgdx> at this point, it's so large (the MP) that it may warrant its own package, but I'm not sure about these things
[09:41] <dednick> jgdx: ok!
[09:42] <dednick> jgdx: sounds like the correct project; but maybe having a separate package would be a good idea
[09:43] <jgdx> dednick, the only issue with that is that it will need a MIR, since (iirc) all of u-s-s's deps needs to be in main
[12:50] <Guest11492> Hey :-)
[12:51] <Guest11492> I’ve a problem with my Aquaris E5, maybe you can help me…
[12:52] <Guest11492> Yesterday I got a message “only little space left on device” two or three times, the phone became unresponsive and had to be rebooted hard.
[12:52] <Guest11492> I’ve deleted a folder and /userdata has now ~1.2 GB free space.
[12:53] <Guest11492> But today the wifi stopped working and upon reboot neither the SIMs nor the wifi can be enabled.
[12:53] <Guest11492> df -h shows that /android/system is 99% full, but I don’t know if that’s normal.
[12:54] <Guest11492> Btw.: /dev/loop0 is mounted read-only, maybe that’s a problem.
[12:54] <Guest11492> Any ideas?
[13:35] <rambo___> can i install ubunut in my yureka phone
[13:35] <davmor2> Guest11492: try rebooting now you have space again and the system might become correct
[13:36] <rambo___> Hi I have this mobile http://www.gsmarena.com/yu_yureka-6987.php  is it possible to install ubunut
[13:38] <rambo___> Hi I have this mobile http://www.gsmarena.com/yu_yureka-6987.php  is it possible to install ubunut
[13:42] <Guest11492> davmor2: I’ve rebooted several times. The heavy problems didn’t occur until today, I freed the space already yesterday.
[13:42] <davmor2> Guest11492: hmm not sure then
[13:44] <Guest11492> The phone is completely unusable right now, as I cannot use the phone neither any apps that require internet :-/
[13:45] <Guest11492> sorry: … can neither use the phone nor any apps …
[13:47] <Guest11492> Should I be able to use systemctl? Returns “Failed to get D-Bus connection: Operation not permitted“ when run as root in the terminal.
[13:53] <taiebot> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/messaging-app/+bug/1659830
[17:31] <Guest11492> bye
[19:18] <n3rd_dude> Hi, I have two questions. #1. Is there a difference between Ubuntu for desktops (x86/arm) and Ubuntu for mobile devices? Specifically from the point of raw hardware access and native development capabilities?
[19:20] <n3rd_dude> #2. (Hopefully not an unusual question by now), is it possible to install on external sdcard and have uboot, boot by the bootloader on the NAND with Android still is? (Like some SBC's do. I understand the intricacies and requirements for this so a condensed form of the question is, can it be done in practice without touching the NAND?)
[19:21] <n3rd_dude> *where Android still is...
[19:25] <dobey> yes, ARM devices are not general purpose hardware, and drivers are typically closed source only, so specific images must be built for each supported device
[19:25] <NeKit> n3rd_dude, also Ubuntu Touch involves running stripped down Android system inside LXC container for reusing Android blobs
[19:26] <NeKit> #2 is possible as long as you have some means to boot Linux kernel
[19:26] <dobey> and no, the android bootloader doesn't boot off SD card normally, so you can't just throw stuff on an SD and expect it to boot
[19:27] <dobey> you would have to change enough of the phone, maybe in the NAND, to get booting off SD card to work
[19:27] <NeKit> some devices (not phones) could boot kernel from SD card though
[19:27] <n3rd_dude> Aha I see. So for starters, the headache the average hacker would have to endure to spin the generic arm Linux distro has been figured out by you guys? (Dunno much about LXC)
[19:28] <n3rd_dude> dobey, yeah not on mobile :)
[19:28] <n3rd_dude> And yeah, that's what I thought
[19:28] <dobey> well ubuntu has been ported to work on several phones and tablets, yes
[19:30] <n3rd_dude> The usual setup is, you have a bootloader (uboot?) in NAND already configured to look for uboot in sdcard first in most SBC's afaik. Probably not in phones hence the question :)
[19:30] <n3rd_dude> dobey, the documentation feels very safe and pretty much guarantees portability
[19:31] <n3rd_dude> What would I need to look out for when porting to a new device (on NAND, no fancy stuff)
[19:31] <dobey> every Small Block Chevy i've ever built, didn't have any software
[19:31] <NeKit> except that documentation doesn't cover lots of issues encountered when porting
[19:31] <n3rd_dude> XD
[19:31] <NeKit> n3rd_dude, what kind of device?
[19:31] <n3rd_dude> Nekit, exactly :P
[19:32] <n3rd_dude> What's more specific? SoC or device name?
[19:32] <NeKit> it makes sense when you have no way but to reuse Android components, like for phones/tablets
[19:32] <dobey> single board computers are a little different than phones/tablets, but depending on which one, perhaps not so much
[19:33] <n3rd_dude> SoC is either MTK6753 or the Helio P10 I believe it is (on the planned project device)
[19:33] <n3rd_dude> dobey, Nekit, true XD
[19:33] <n3rd_dude> To both :P simultaneously
[19:34] <dobey> if you have hardware that can use generic drivers already in the stock kernel, then yeah, just pointing uboot at the right thing with a standard arm install of ubuntu should work
[19:34] <dobey> pretty sure MTK doesn't fit that description though
[19:35] <n3rd_dude> Oh? :/ I actually didn't think I would have much of a problem installing as long as nothing happened to the recovery?
[19:35] <n3rd_dude> So mtk is about as fussy as everyone says?
[19:36] <dobey> if you have Android stuff to start with, i don't think you can use uboot anyway
[19:36] <dobey> you need to treat it like any other android device
[19:36] <n3rd_dude> The GPU is Mali and not PowerVR or SGX
[19:37] <n3rd_dude> that's one headache I know exists on the generic arm software eco
[19:37] <dobey> beyond "are the drivers free and in the stock kernel" the specific hardware doesn't much matter
[19:37] <n3rd_dude> dobey, oh?
[19:37] <n3rd_dude> Actually that's true. I keep forgetting that at the end of the day we're talking about an Android device
[19:38] <n3rd_dude> I've only worked with Archarm and SBC's so please pardon my ignorance :)
[19:39] <n3rd_dude> In the latter case Android bin blobs are a no no where support is concerned but I don't really care. I've just been programmed XD
[19:39] <n3rd_dude> Okay so, MTK whatever, issues or should I even try it?
[19:39] <NeKit> do you have full Android tree for your device?
[19:40] <dobey> if you don't have sane drivers already in the kernel, whether you think binary blobs are bad or not, is irrelevant. you will have to use them
[19:40] <dobey> and you will have to run a minimal set of android bits for the hal, to get things working
[19:41] <n3rd_dude> dobey, I know XD NeKit, the devices in question are budget devices with stock Android.
[19:42] <n3rd_dude> I'm slow. Sorry, I'm actually on Android ATM :P
[19:42] <NeKit> then prepare for a lot of troubles since likely they even don't have kernel sources released
[19:42] <n3rd_dude> dobey, you mean to say ubuntu touch doesn't run vanilla?
[19:43] <n3rd_dude> That it in fact needs a lot of...Mucking about? XD
[19:43] <NeKit> yes
[19:43] <dobey> n3rd_dude: it uses a modified kernel specific for each device, and has a small lxc container of android bits, which are necessary to make things work, on the phones/tablets
[19:43] <n3rd_dude> Nekit I'm doomed :P
[19:43] <n3rd_dude> Hmm I understand now
[19:43] <n3rd_dude> That it's a headache from the start XD
[19:44] <NeKit> no easy ways, sorry :)
[19:44] <dobey> if you want to use vanilla kernel, get an Intel Atom or something
[19:44] <n3rd_dude> dobey, Modified kernel, which is why NeKit mentioned source tree?
[19:44] <n3rd_dude> dobey lol no way
[19:45] <dobey> n3rd_dude: well, device tree for all the drivers. but we need patches to enable some things which aren't used on android, like apparmor
[19:46] <n3rd_dude> And yeah, no easy ways for anything ever but I believe this is the best option to have linux in your hands right? Easier than trying to get something like archlinux for arm on a tablet?
[19:46] <n3rd_dude> (I am talking about phones at this point)
[19:46] <NeKit> harder probably
[19:46] <n3rd_dude> dobey right.
[19:46] <n3rd_dude> Nekit oh?
[19:47] <NeKit> well, I suppose, for ArchLinux ARM you take stock or vanilla kernel, right?
[19:48] <dobey> not on an android device
[19:48] <n3rd_dude> Let me say it here since my subconscious is almost screaming it. I wish arm hardware devs made stuff as clean as x86 -_- sadly not all wishes come true...
[19:48] <n3rd_dude> Nekit for a start yes
[19:48] <n3rd_dude> And use binary blobs for all the drivers
[19:48] <dobey> you have to use the kernel for the device
[19:48] <n3rd_dude> Especially video
[19:49] <n3rd_dude> dobey, you mean as a general rule?
[19:49] <n3rd_dude> Or just here? :p
[19:49] <dobey> but if you need to enable any features the stock kernel doesn't have built in, you're going to have to rebuild the kernel of course
[19:49] <n3rd_dude> Yeah which is kinda cleaner?
[19:49] <n3rd_dude> Isn't it?
[19:49] <dobey> n3rd_dude: i mean for ARM devices, and specifically ones built around being android kit
[19:50] <dobey> not cleaner, no
[19:50] <n3rd_dude> dobey I get what you mean
[19:50] <dobey> building android kernels is a horrible mess
[19:50] <n3rd_dude> Android kernel!? God no!
[19:50] <n3rd_dude> Lol
[19:50] <n3rd_dude> That IS a f'ing nightmare
[19:50] <dobey> welcome to the world of ARM
[19:50] <n3rd_dude> Haha
[19:50] <n3rd_dude> Thank you! :p
[19:51] <n3rd_dude> I feel like buying the next ticket out of here already XD
[19:51] <n3rd_dude> But yeah, I've seen the mess with SBC's. I
[19:51] <n3rd_dude> know it's worse for mobile
[19:52] <dobey> they are the same really
[19:52] <n3rd_dude> 1:1?
[19:52] <n3rd_dude> The nightmares?
[19:52] <n3rd_dude> :D
[19:52] <NeKit> yet for SBC's there is usually some kind of Linux support from manufacturer
[19:52] <NeKit> phone manufacturers don't care
[19:52] <dobey> n3rd_dude: android is linux. so all android phones have "some linux support"
[19:52] <dobey> err
[19:52] <dobey> NeKit: even
[19:52] <n3rd_dude> XD
[19:53] <NeKit> I know, I mean Linux-specific blobs built around glibc
[19:54] <dobey> anyway, i don't know what kind of device you want to make, but with ARM the annoying apart is going to be device bring-up
[19:55] <n3rd_dude> Okay I don't want to be grumbling the whole time. So let's say I'm up for it (I am when I have the time), how similar to say a desktop/workstation environment is Ubuntu touch? In the sense of binutils, GCC and the like? You know? "(Ultra) Portable programming device (fantasy)"
[19:55] <n3rd_dude> Lol that was long XD
[19:56] <dobey> ubuntu is ubuntu
[19:56] <n3rd_dude> dobey bring-up as in, getting it going right?
[19:56] <n3rd_dude> And cool!
[19:57] <n3rd_dude> That's what I wanted to hear. I guess asking if it was a minimal form would've been better :/
[19:57] <dobey> yeah, as in getting things booting and running and working correctly in the system. the hard and annoying part of pointing ubuntu to new devices, for example
[19:57] <NeKit> make sure to avoid MTK devices without source code available
[19:57] <dobey> well the phone images are pared down yes. they include a read-only /, and are phone images
[19:58] <n3rd_dude> dobey, I hear you. Nekit, what's up with MTK support anyway?
[19:58] <NeKit> Chinese vendors don't care about GPL
[19:58] <n3rd_dude> XD I forgot about that part! How stupid of me :D
[19:58] <n3rd_dude> Or anything else for that matter...
[19:59] <n3rd_dude> Here's my guinea pig http://www.umidigi.com/page-umi_super_overview.html
[20:00] <n3rd_dude> Buying it for something else but I could adopt it for Ubuntu touch at some point
[20:00] <NeKit> yeah, they likely won't even release kernel source code for it
[20:01] <n3rd_dude> Hit the brakes on that device?
[20:01] <dobey> what is your goal exactly?
[20:01] <n3rd_dude> Would be awesome to push that device with raw Linux though
[20:01] <n3rd_dude> Oh, I've been interested in Ubuntu touch since it was announced
[20:01] <n3rd_dude> On top of that
[20:02] <NeKit> sorry, but wrong device choice then
[20:02] <n3rd_dude> I'm interested in playing with an actual Linux environment everywhere I go
[20:02] <n3rd_dude> XD
[20:02] <dobey> well how big of a device do you want?
[20:02] <n3rd_dude> Because MTK or the whole bloody thing? :D
[20:02] <NeKit> because UMI
[20:03] <NeKit> (I mean, I saw few vendors release source code even for MTK devices, but they seem to be not among them)
[20:03] <n3rd_dude> Nekit, I thought so :P dobey, for a phone, 5/5.5". Otherwise any tablet is interesting enough but the SoC has to be good
[20:04] <n3rd_dude> Nekit I believe you are right
[20:04] <NeKit> (for example https://www.xda-developers.com/vernee-releases-complete-source-code-for-mediatek-x20-based-apollo-lite/)
[20:04] <n3rd_dude> Chinese vendors dont really like releasing any kind of source. I could dig around the forums though
[20:05] <dobey> NeKit: then i would just say wait it out until more ubuntu phones/tablets come out, after we get switched over to snappy based system
[20:05] <n3rd_dude> Their general language barrier is maddening though and I'll be happier going *your* way
[20:05] <n3rd_dude> Snappy? Like Core?
[20:05] <dobey> yes
[20:07] <n3rd_dude> BTW what's the difference between core and say, Ubuntu for arm? Asking because you brought it up :P
[20:07] <n3rd_dude> Nekit checking your link
[20:08] <NeKit> I'm not advertising for that device in particular, just an example
[20:08] <n3rd_dude> The X20 is kind of a beast. Yeah I know :)
[20:09] <n3rd_dude> *would* you advertise it though? :P
[20:11] <n3rd_dude> Nekit, $235.93 on eBay. it's approx +34.93 from the device I linked :P
[20:11] <n3rd_dude> beefier too
[20:11] <dobey> "ubuntu for arm" isn't a think
[20:12] <dobey> armhf and arm64 are just architectures that most of the archive also gets built for
[20:12] <NeKit> hard to say, I would probably advice for something with better support from community, even if not that powerful
[20:12] <n3rd_dude> dobey so I've seen. Instead Ubuntu has Core?
[20:12] <n3rd_dude> Oh!
[20:12] <n3rd_dude> dobey so Ubuntu desktop for arm?
[20:12] <n3rd_dude> Nekit okay :) I should do my homework then
[20:13] <dobey> if you have the hardware for it, sure, but i wouldn't recommend it
[20:13] <dobey> a system based on ubuntu-core would be better suited for most arm devices, when we get all the various bits worked out there
[20:13] <dobey> ie, ubuntu personal
[20:14] <n3rd_dude> dobey I'm sorry, I meant does the desktop iso *also* support arm is what i meant.
[20:15] <n3rd_dude> The reason I used the term Ubuntu arm is because fedora and arch for instance use that sort of terminology
[20:15] <dobey> no
[20:15] <dobey> that's not how ARM devices work
[20:16] <dobey> lots of different bootloaders and such
[20:16] <dobey> and then binary driver issues and all that
[20:16] <n3rd_dude> Lol I said iso for a sudden inability to express myself
[20:16] <n3rd_dude> I know I've got an arm device. I suddenly get dense sometimes XD
[20:16] <dobey> so there isn't really a general "install this thing on ARM" solution
[20:16] <n3rd_dude> Yep
[20:16] <n3rd_dude> Its a nightmare every time
[20:17] <n3rd_dude> I'm sorry I pulled off topic
[20:18] <n3rd_dude> I find Ubuntu's new distribution solutions interesting and I think Ubuntu Touch is one or the best ideas I've ever seen.
[20:18] <n3rd_dude> *of
[20:23] <n3rd_dude> I'm still here for a while but in case I disappear, thanks NeKit and dobey :)
[20:37] <tsimonq2> Marius Gripsgard doing a Q&A about UBPorts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYswrwemiMM
[21:14] <n3rd_dude> If I may bother you guys again
[21:14] <n3rd_dude> What's the work in getting Ubuntu touch on an atom platform really?
[21:15] <n3rd_dude> I never thought of that until Nekit mentioned it
[21:15] <NeKit> tablet or phone?
[21:15] <n3rd_dude> Phone?
[21:15] <NeKit> would be mostly the same to ARM phone, sadly
[21:15] <NeKit> but no one really tried it, I think
[21:16] <n3rd_dude> XD is a tablet any different?
[21:16] <n3rd_dude> You mean working touch on an atom?
[21:18] <NeKit> on Bay Trail/Cherry Trail tablet you can generally run normal desktop Linux, but there are a lot of device-specific problems
[21:18] <n3rd_dude> Oh that sounds very interesting
[21:18] <n3rd_dude> And those problems I will have to iron out on my own way?
[21:19] <n3rd_dude> And what's the boot loader?
[21:19] <NeKit> UEFI
[21:19] <NeKit> so GRUB2 or anything else
[21:20] <n3rd_dude> That's sort of neat
[21:20] <NeKit> n3rd_dude> And those problems I will have to iron out on my own way? - yes, or you could search if someone tried to run Linux on specific device and with what results
[21:20] <n3rd_dude> Good point
[21:20] <n3rd_dude> I shall look into that. Thanks NeKit :)
[21:21] <n3rd_dude> One last thing, what's this about touch being mixed with core?
[21:21] <n3rd_dude> What happens then?
[21:27] <dobey> n3rd_dude: there is no ubuntu touch. there is only ubuntu.
[21:28] <n3rd_dude> dobey: Oh I'm sorry XD
[21:29] <n3rd_dude> But you did say something interesting about snappy on mobile?
[21:29] <n3rd_dude> (Ubuntu)
[21:29] <NeKit> regarding your earlier MTK thoughts, javier4 is working on unofficial Ubuntu port for Elephone Vowney Lite (Helio X10)，and so far it's booting to GUI, but that's pretty much all for now in terms of hardware support
[21:29] <dobey> n3rd_dude: the whole idea is that phone/tablete images and x86 ISOs and whatnot are all built from the same archive. as is the ubuntu-core snap
[21:30] <dobey> there will be "ubuntu personal" images at some point, built with snaps, and phone/tablet images on new devices at that point will all be based on that
[21:30] <n3rd_dude> NeKit: cool, thanks :)
[21:31] <dobey> running unity8/mir and confined and all the good security stuff
[21:31] <n3rd_dude> dobey, so, basically better modularity? Something like that?
[21:32] <dobey> i guess something like that
[21:33] <n3rd_dude> dobey, BTW I started with Ubuntu like 8 years ago. Jumped to arch :P so I know how package management works. Just saying ;)
[21:34] <n3rd_dude> Stuff has changed though
[21:57] <n3rd_dude> Thanks again guys. Much appreciated :)
[21:57] <n3rd_dude> I'm off for now