[05:53] <hikiko> hi
[05:58] <happyaron> hikiko: hey
[05:59] <happyaron> how are you
[06:04] <hikiko> hi happyaron :-)
[08:25] <desrt> morning, all
[08:35] <seb128> hey desrt, had a good w.e?
[08:36] <desrt> yes, but also a very difficult one
[08:36] <desrt> how was your weekend?
[08:37] <seb128> quite good, though a bit disappointed that we couldn't play the special tennis day on saturday due to the weather
[08:38] <desrt> did you get the snow side of it, or the rain?
[08:38] <seb128> snow
[08:38] <seb128> you?
[08:38] <desrt> both :p
[08:38] <desrt> woke up to snow on saturday and watched the rain clear it away in the afternoon
[08:38] <seb128> was it what created the difficult part of the w.e?
[08:39] <seb128> it sticked for most of the w.e here, just started being warmer yesterday afternoon
[08:53] <desrt> just some personal things to work through
[08:55] <willcooke> morning all
[08:55] <desrt> hi willcookie  (i caught the typo, but i'm just gonna let that one stand)
[08:55] <desrt> happy monday :)
[08:56] <willcooke> :D
[08:56] <willcooke> hey desrt
[09:03] <desrt> willcooke: cool email :)
[09:03] <willcooke> desrt, yay!  Glad you liked it :))
[09:06] <Laney> meow
[09:06] <desrt> *pat pat*
[09:06] <willcooke> morning Laney
[09:08] <davmor2> Morning all
[09:09] <seb128> hey Laney & willcooke
[09:09] <seb128> hey davmor2
[09:10] <willcooke> morning davmor2 seb128
[09:12] <Laney> hey willcooke davmor2 seb128 desrt
[09:13] <Laney> how's it going?
[09:13]  * Laney has cold hands
[09:19]  * desrt gives laney some hand warmers
[09:20] <Laney> :3
[09:21] <desrt> can someone explain :3 to me?
[09:21] <desrt> i don't get it
[09:22] <desrt> the intarwebs says that it's supposed to look like a cat.
[09:22]  * desrt very suddenly feels old
[09:23] <davmor2> Laney: cold hands, warm heart......that or you are a zombie
[09:31]  * Laney gnaws on davmor2 
[09:31] <Laney> desrt: SHOCKED that you didn't immediately see it
[09:32] <Laney> it means cosy
[09:32] <Laney> hygge
[09:32] <davmor2> that or you have a handlebar Moustache you've been keeping quiet
[09:33] <Laney> :3)
[09:33] <Laney> looks more like I've been punched in the nose
[09:34] <desrt> or are a clown
[09:35]  * desrt tries to filter change signals, becomes unhappy
[09:35]  * davmor2 pictures Laney as an evil mastermind twirling his handlebar Moustache and laughing maniacally 
[09:35]  * desrt considers that maybe she shouldn't try to do that
[09:35] <Laney> notify::president
[09:36] <desrt> there's a really beautiful duality here
[09:36] <desrt> and i think i'm resisting it a little bit too much
[09:36]  * desrt deletes a bunch of code
[09:36] <davmor2> desrt: :o) is obviously a clown
[09:37]  * desrt sees partial orders everywhere
[09:38] <davmor2> and this is the famous song in one emoticon :'o( ← tears of a clown
[09:50] <flexiondotorg> Morning Desktopers
[09:53] <davmor2> flexiondotorg: hey dude how's things down Sowff
[09:54] <davmor2> willcooke: we had snowmeggedon Saturday Morning we must of had more than 10 flakes /me still wants the Thundersnow his was promised by weathermen
[09:57] <willcooke> :D
[10:00] <davmor2> willcooke: there is a nice pic on G+ of white roves and everything very wintry 30 minutes later ofcourse it started to rain and that was the end of that :)
[10:21] <Laney> back in a minute, got to head to the sorting office to get something before they chuck it in the furnace
[10:21] <Laney> if it turns out to be junk mail
[10:21] <Laney> arhghghg
[12:37] <jbicha> Laney: what do you think of gnome-software 3.24 for zesty?
[12:38] <Laney> Haven't thought about it a lot
[12:38] <Laney> I think installing .debs by double clicking them may be broken atm
[12:38] <Laney> why do you ask?
[12:39] <Laney> also I have a branch on my laptop of a rebase of our stuff against master but I don't think I pushed it
[12:39] <Laney> which is to say that it'll be quite untested
[12:40] <jbicha> because I think we'll get nearly all the rest of GNOME 3.24 in and Feature Freeze is this week
[12:42] <jbicha> I'm keeping Evo at 3.22 and nautilus and gnome-terminal are still stuck at 3.20
[12:44] <jbicha> yes, it looks like the Install button for local .debs doesn't do anything
[12:45] <jbicha> I updated the gnome-software packaging locally against git master ( Refreshed 0001-Download-changelog-information-on-demand-this-stops-.patch and dropped 3 obsolete patches)
[12:47] <Laney> Pushed wip/ubuntu-master
[12:47] <Laney> Feel free to fix that bug if you want
[12:48] <Laney> 4e36b420bcae79543d4e7f506f5a39bd518e1d9d is what robert did for the snap one
[13:07] <Trevinho> Laney: could you please ACK package changes in https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2464 and.... At that point also follow the SRUing of it? :-)
[13:07]  * Trevinho has big requests
[13:07] <Trevinho> Hey all btw :-)
[13:08] <seb128> hey Trevinho!
[13:08] <Trevinho> hey seb128
[13:08] <Sweet5hark> heya all
[13:08] <Trevinho> do we have any move on that runtime thing?
[13:09] <seb128> hey Sweet5hark
[13:09] <seb128> Trevinho, not sure, I got lost in the middle of your arguments about renamings on friday
[13:09]  * Sweet5hark is drowning a bit in various battles because of the Linux in Munich story.
[13:09] <seb128> but Didier said he would pick it up for you
[13:09] <jbicha> Sweet5hark: LO 5.3 built, but the autopkgtests are failing :(
[13:09] <seb128> Sweet5hark, next chapter to that story?
[13:09] <Sweet5hark> jbicha: thanks for the upload!
[13:10] <Sweet5hark> jbicha: I will look at the autopkgtests ...
[13:11] <seb128> Trevinho, btw I don't know why you insist on getting your reviews from Laney only for packaging diffs, there are other people would could do that as well here...
[13:11] <Trevinho> seb128: cause I love to bother Laney :-D
[13:11] <seb128> lol
[13:12] <ricotz> hey desktopers
[13:12] <ricotz> Sweet5hark, hi, https://paste.debian.net/plain/914123 :(
[13:12] <Trevinho> seb128: but.... feel free to do it if you feel ignored :-P
[13:12] <seb128> Trevinho, if I was to review it I would probably say it's not fine for a SRU, the changelog should explains the debian/control and debian/rules changes so the SRU team knows if they are wanted or errors
[13:12] <flexiondotorg> o/
[13:12] <seb128> hey flexiondotorg ricotz
[13:12] <Sweet5hark> seb128: yeah, FWIW the city council just took the decision on it of the scheduled meeting on wednesday. seems like the signs of corruption are way to obvious for the party to support their mayor. but punted is not yet called of. some investigative journalists are waking up to the story though and smell blood in the pool, which is good.
[13:13] <flexiondotorg> davmor2 Sunny dahn saff.
[13:13] <Trevinho> actually those changes were neither needed for xenial. I just cherry-picked upstream
[13:13] <Trevinho> but let me check
[13:13] <flexiondotorg> seb128 o/
[13:15] <seb128> ricotz, why do you add a transitional for an empty/useless package? do upgrades get put on hold without that?
[13:16] <ricotz> seb128, yes, and there is still a Recommend on it
[13:16] <seb128> Sweet5hark, what did they decide to do?
[13:16] <seb128> ricotz, do you have a bug with an apt log showing why it thinks holding on the upgrade is a safer choice than removing an useless package?
[13:16] <seb128> that seems a bit weird to me
[13:16] <seb128> the transitional shouldn't be needed there
[13:16] <jbicha> Laney: do we still want https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-software/commit/?h=wip/ubuntu-zesty&id=5a39527fed
[13:18] <ricotz> seb128, the superflous Recommends causes it, so dropping this might make it work without a transitional
[13:19]  * ricotz is a bit annoyed while having this pointed out last week already
[13:19] <seb128> ricotz, that makes sense, let's try to do that and see if anyone still get upgrade issues
[13:19] <seb128> ricotz, you pointed it but I discussed it with Bjoern and none of us understood the rational of why you wanted to add a transitional
[13:19] <seb128> ricotz, explaining why changes are needed helps
[13:20] <ricotz> seb128, I mentioned the superfluous Recommends too
[13:20] <seb128> I'm sure Sweet5hark is going to drop that one
[13:21] <seb128> he's just busy with lot of things so changes take a bit of time
[13:21] <seb128> jbicha, what is "kudo"?
[13:21] <Laney> jbicha: Dunno, it's not meant to be a fully formed proposal, you kind of sprung this on me
[13:22] <Sweet5hark> seb128: they decided nothing yet (except underfunding the existing linux project). they had paid for a study by accenture (microsofts best buddies) hoping it would say "burn it down and use windows". except even accenture could bring themselves to write that, they most wrote "you main problem is that your organisation structure really sucks. also you have some technical issues (but not worse than other public admins on wi
[13:22] <Sweet5hark> seb128: the mayor then ignored the summary cherry-picked some quotes out of context and asked for a vote to go back to windows by 2020 on wednesday
[13:22] <Sweet5hark> seb128: that vote was just cancelled as some politician might either have discovered their conscience or realized this will backfire at them tainting them as corrupt.
[13:23] <Laney> I would update the wip/ubuntu-zesty branch if it were me
[13:23] <seb128> Sweet5hark, I see, "fun"
[13:24] <Laney> Trevinho: will look soon if nobody else does
[13:24]  * Laney lunch
[13:24] <Trevinho> Laney: thanks
[13:25] <Sweet5hark> seb128: and yeah, of course totally unrelated: MSFT recently moved the Germany HQ from a tiny village outside of Munich inside city borders (which is relevant for tax reasons).
[13:25] <Sweet5hark> the mayor was at the ceremony when they were laying the first stone.
[13:28] <ricotz> Sweet5hark, yeah, that is some story! :\
[13:41] <jbicha> seb128: it's the stuff under Details on the left: https://bicha.net/i/gnome-software-322-kudos.png
[13:42] <seb128> jbicha, oh, right, it should be easy to test for you by reverting the patch but I don't think any of that changed
[14:00] <Laney> Trevinho: what did you do
[14:00] <Laney> there's no packaging diff
[14:01] <seb128> Laney, I reviewed it saying that the debian/control|rules changes should be explaining in the changelog and he said those were not required, so I guess he did a respin without
[14:02] <Laney> seb128: nice
[14:02] <Laney> 2017-02-13 13:45:46 +0000 (bileto-bot) Currently building
[14:03] <Laney> would have been good to unping me :P
[14:07] <seb128> yeah
[14:07] <seb128> or to just ask on the channel rather than pinging specific people
[14:08] <Laney> indeed so
[14:20] <Laney> jbicha: I pushed that commit as a cherry-pick
[14:20] <Laney> I didn't put it on my proposed branch since it doesn't make sense for upstream
[14:21] <Laney> and if they reject it then I probably want to talk about us dropping it at some point
[14:21] <Laney> but not right now
[14:23] <jbicha> sure, that makes sense
[14:29] <seb128> jbicha, do the kudos work in Debian?
[14:31] <Laney> sure, just as they would work here
[14:32] <Laney> They mostly come from as-glib
[14:33] <Laney> Some of them can be specified in the appdata directly and some are computed
[14:33] <Laney> I think they were considered to be not that high quality / useful before. Maybe that's changed, would need to have a look
[14:34] <seb128> Laney, the concept is a bit fuzzy to me, what does "translated" mean, especially in the context of langpacks
[14:34] <seb128> I think that's part of what we had issues with
[14:35] <Laney> I don't know, I'm deliberately not trying to have this discussion again now since nobody is proposing bringing them back atm
[14:35] <seb128> k, I saw you were saying they just work(tm)
[14:35] <seb128> which made me curious
[14:35] <seb128> saw->though
[14:36] <Laney> No, they would "work" here in the same way they "work" there
[14:36] <Laney> In saying that I mean there's no magic support anywhere
[14:36] <Laney> i.e. no specific enablement work required
[14:37] <Laney> it's "just" some UI and code
[14:37] <seb128> right
[14:38] <seb128> well at least I learnt that they come from as-glib
[14:38] <seb128> I didn't know if that was coming from the backend
[14:38] <Laney> it could also do
[14:38] <seb128> like maybe packagekit does things we don't in the aptd one
[14:38] <Laney> that's the plugin architecture of g-s
[14:38] <Laney> the apt plugin could so kudo related stuff if it wanted to
[14:39] <seb128> right
[14:39] <Laney> like if we enabled them then the snappy plugin would do something like this---
[14:39] <Laney> src/plugins/gs-flatpak.c:       gs_app_add_kudo (app, GS_APP_KUDO_SANDBOXED);
[14:39] <Laney> depending on the interface or whatever
[14:40] <seb128> right
[14:40] <seb128> anyway to reply to jbicha, we commented it because e.g translations were never showing as "true"
[14:40] <seb128> dunno if it works in the packagekit backend
[14:41] <seb128> or in other distros because their packagking format provides extra details
[14:41] <jbicha> I don't have a problem with continuing to hide the kudos; I only brought it up to make sure that we weren't dropping the patch to hide them (since it wasn't in the master patch queue)
[14:41] <seb128> k
[14:41] <seb128> seems everybody is fine with the current status then
[14:41] <jbicha> :)
[14:41] <seb128> can we me on then, good :-)
[14:42] <seb128> ups
[14:42] <seb128> can move on*
[14:44] <Laney> I wonder how it knows the percentage
[14:44] <Laney> probably don't need to find out right now :P
[14:44] <seb128> :-)
[14:48] <willcooke> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB0Zpr91qiA
[14:48] <willcooke> attente, ^ \o/
[14:49] <Laney> totally looked
[14:49] <Laney> it needs generator support
[14:49] <Laney> if that were the only issue we could hide just that kudo, fyi
[14:49]  * Laney moves on with life :P
[14:49] <attente> willcooke: :o
[14:49] <Laney> nice video
[14:49] <Laney> controls on the right!!!!
[14:50] <seb128> I was going to say!
[14:50] <seb128> how could they
[14:50] <willcooke> so hot right now
[14:51] <seb128> Laney, yeah, staying out of the discussion about those "kudos", I'm not sure how pertinant the "system integration" and "activity" badges are, but the "sandboxed" could be nice, probably a low priority item though
[14:52] <attente> is gtk still blocking builds because of the ubuntu-app-launch upstart depends?
[14:52] <Laney> yes
[14:52] <Laney> ted_g_ has been pinged multiple times
[14:53] <attente> ok, thanks Laney
[15:32] <ksamak> Trevinho: hi. i have a question, what mutual exclusion lock mechanism would one use inside compiz, say in ezzom module? XD
[15:34] <ksamak> andyrock: same if you have insight
[15:34] <ksamak> s/ezzom/ezoom
[16:03] <willcooke> Laney, tedg_ is looking at the u-a-l work.  It's going to take some time, he's interested to know what the gtk timelines look like.  We're what, 10 days from beta 1?  A month or so from final beta right?
[16:05] <alecu> willcooke: also we'd like to know if there's any other option for this, in case a clean solution in UAL takes too long. tedg_ mentioned that it might be possible to make the gtk dependency on contenthub be optional
[16:05] <alecu> but not sure if that's a lot more work
[16:06] <dobey> i think it would be far easier to just make the contenthub dep be optional in gtk+
[16:06] <tedg_> To be clear, we're not talking months. I think that end of the week is optimistic, but probably next week is possible. But we didn't know how much of a problem gtk blocking is.
[16:06] <Laney> It's not the end of the world right now - the only change being held out is attente's recent work on the Mir backend - but it means we can't do any further fixes if we need to.
[16:07] <Laney> And yes, of course we could implement a hack to turn off the Mir backend on s390x, but that would be a hack
[16:08] <Laney> Enough of those in the archive already due to lack of upstart there
[16:09] <tedg_> Sure, it'll be interesting to see what things break once UAL lets a bunch more build on s390x ;-)
[16:10] <tedg_> Okay, so it sounds like removing it correctly from UAL is the right solution. So we'll get started on that, it's just not gonna be quick.
[16:10] <dobey> interesting as in "may you live in interesting times" perhaps
[16:10] <Laney> It's been easier every time to work around the problem
[16:10] <Laney> but now we're in a state where there's a wobbly tower that's been constructed
[16:11] <Laney> Thanks for working on it. :)
[16:11]  * dobey doesn't live in italy ;)
[16:12] <attente> i'll make gtk -> content-hub optional in the mean time
[16:12] <Trevinho> ksamak: mh, since we've c++11 there now, I'd go for std::lock
[16:13] <alecu> Laney: willcooke: thanks for bringing it to our attention.
[16:14] <Laney> attente: We'll end up with some ugly "if not s390x" or "if not upstart" thing in gtk if you do that
[16:15] <Laney> alecu: thank *you* for helping it along!
[16:15] <ksamak> Trevinho: i find out that when cloning the mousepoll plugin, i have problems calling a callback
[16:15] <ksamak> and i get segfaults in operator() :-S
[16:15] <ksamak> i don't really know what to make of that
[16:16] <Trevinho> ksamak: mh, that might be much generic.. But in general that could happen because of loops around?
[16:16] <Laney> Saw a big queue in town on Friday night (7pm)
[16:16] <dobey> Laney: why would that be? i disagree. it would be "if not libcontent-hub-glib" no?
[16:16] <Trevinho> like you call something that triggers an x events that brings you there
[16:16] <Trevinho> or...
[16:16] <Laney> ... http://www.nottinghampost.com/sneaker-heads-finally-get-their-hand-on-kanye-west-s-yeezy-boost-trainers-after-queuing-for-days/story-30128812-detail/story.html
[16:17] <dobey> Laney: ie, if pkg-config can't find the library, don't built the support.
[16:17] <ksamak> hum... that's really frustrating, if i put the exact same logic in the mousepoll plug, it works, but not with changing the name to focuspoll XD
[16:17] <ksamak> well, i'll continue looking for things...
[16:18] <Laney> dobey: Ok, it'll be an arch-specific build-dep in the package and an ifdefed codepath in the code and an arch-specific runtime dependency in the -dev package
[16:19] <Laney> All to let something that we want to remove not be removed right this second
[16:19]  * Laney is happy it's being worked on rather than that
[16:20]  * dobey wonders if anyone has even run any gtk+ application ever, on s390x
[16:20] <dobey> anyway
[16:21] <dobey> i don't think it's to avoid removing right this second. i think it's more about finding the smallest set of changes to keep everything moving forward
[16:21] <dobey> but eh
[16:22] <Laney> Increasing the technical debt ceiling
[16:22] <dobey> politics :)
[16:22] <dobey> anyway, need to get lunch here
[16:28] <xnox> dobey, no, but there are src packages that have gtk+ build-deps and build command line utils.
[16:29] <xnox> and that makes dependency graphs sad.
[16:41] <b4n> andyrock: around?  I get that you probably didn't get much further on the a11y shortcuts since the other day, but if I can do *anything* to help, please tell me :)
[16:41] <andyrock> yep
[16:42] <andyrock> I'm afraid if you want to see that fixed you need to work on it alone
[16:42] <andyrock> i'm blocked on other stuff
[16:42] <andyrock> i'm blocked on other stuffi told you before it's going to be very very difficult
[16:42] <b4n> do you have anything I could strat off?
[16:45] <b4n> or your research didn't yet yield any useful code, even as a start?
[16:45] <b4n> (which I'd get given the complexity I'm sensing)
[16:49] <andyrock> not really I was able to use xi2 to get the events
[16:50] <andyrock> but using another display connection
[16:50] <andyrock> but using another display connection
[16:50] <andyrock> not really I was able to use xi2 to get the events
[16:50] <andyrock> not the one from screen->dpy()
[16:59] <b4n> andyrock: and this had race problems then, that's it?
[18:11] <andyrock> b4n: yep
[18:11] <andyrock> it's not a good idea to have two dpy connection inside compiz
[18:24] <willcooke> night all
[18:31] <seb128> good evening desktopers
[18:40] <jbicha> Sweet5hark: nacc pointed out that libreoffice/zesty isn't using the system orcus
[18:40] <jbicha> and the autopkgtest isn't picking up ant
[19:43] <jdstrand> desrt: hey. I'd like to play with the v4 dconf patches on the apparmor mailing list. do you have a dconf in a ppa or patches or something so I can test kernel w/ aa userspace w/ dconf?
[19:43] <desrt> there's no aa part of dconf yet, so not much to test there
[19:43] <desrt> attente was going to write it once he got an API to write against
[19:44] <desrt> is it possible to do that at this point?
[19:44]  * desrt was just about to run out to the bar
[19:45] <attente> jdstrand: desrt: haven't written that yet, but j_johansen already sent the patches to the ML
[19:50] <jdstrand> attente: curious on the timeframe for that? I'm asking because I've been asked to review those patches considering how it might be used in snappy policy
[19:50] <jdstrand> attente: I'd be happy with poc code or really anything where dconf is using libapparmor to mediate/log/something I can look at the results of
[19:51] <attente> jdstrand: i can look at it today
[19:51] <jdstrand> attente: if that isn't available or timelines don't match up, I'll do my review from a different perspective
[19:51] <jdstrand> attente: ok, that would be handy. thank you :)
[19:52] <jdstrand> attente: I can't look at it today and likely not tomorrow, so not a huge rush (would like to midweek though, if that works for you)
[19:54] <attente> jdstrand: good to know, thanks
[19:55] <attente> jdstrand: it might be delayed anyways since d_esrt is already eod and i might have questions for her...
[19:56]  * jdstrand nods
[22:04] <dobey> desrt: hey. is there any way to get the summary/description of a gsettings key, with the cli tool?
[22:07] <jbicha> dobey: gsettings describe
[22:08] <dobey> jbicha: is that hidden? or only in a newer version of gsettings?
[22:14] <jbicha> it's new for 16.10
[22:24] <dobey> yeah, i need it to work in 16.04 too :(
[23:30] <TheMuso> dobey: Probably the API was there previously, and since 16.10 there has been a CLI UI to do so.
[23:31] <TheMuso> Since dconf-editor has been able to display that stuff for ages afaik.