[09:02] <Laney> yo
[09:03] <seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
[09:03] <seb128> you beat willcooke this morning!
[09:04] <willcooke> :) morning all
[09:04] <willcooke> Boy #3 just said his first couple of words.... "egg hole" when talking about an egg box.
[09:05] <seb128> hey willcooke
[09:05] <seb128> nice
[09:05] <Laney> nice!
[09:05] <seb128> how old are they now?
[09:05] <Laney> better than "a hole"
[09:06] <seb128> :-)
[09:06] <Laney> seb128: good, went to a talk about worm composting last night
[09:06] <Laney> rock and roll!
[09:06] <Laney> you?
[09:06] <davmor2> Morning all  willcooke Laney beat me to it
[09:06] <willcooke> seb128, 18 months now.  #2 is chatting away and won't stop, but #3 listens but doesn't say very much.
[09:06] <seb128> I'm good, had a relaxing evening watching a movie
[09:06] <seb128> today is really nice and sunny
[09:07] <willcooke> hi davmor2
[09:07] <davmor2> Laney: you might want to think about composting stuff using worms rather than actually composting worms just a heads up on that one ;)
[09:08] <seb128> willcooke, they are the same but not quite the same then ;-)
[09:08] <willcooke> :) very different
[09:08] <davmor2> seb128: what movie?  and was it good?
[09:08] <willcooke> seb128, Laney - if FF is "tomorrow" - what time of day does that kick in?  i.e happyaron is going to sync ZFS from Debian.  If he does it tomorrow morning his time does that still count as FF?
[09:10] <seb128> willcooke, whenever somebody feels like pressing the buttons, usually it's in our afternoon I think
[09:10] <willcooke> thanks seb128
[09:10] <seb128> but even if it's synced after I think it's not going to be difficult to persuade them to let it in
[09:10] <seb128> just need to ask nicely
[09:10] <flexiondotorg> Morninf seb128 willcooke davmor2 Laney
[09:10] <willcooke> :)
[09:11] <willcooke> hey flexiondotorg
[09:11] <flexiondotorg> seb128 I'd like your help with something today if you can spare the time
[09:11] <seb128> davmor2, "The double" with Richard Gere, sort of thriller/action, it was entertaining enough
[09:12] <seb128> hey flexiondotorg, sure
[09:12] <seb128> flexiondotorg, sorry I saw your question yesterday evening but just when reading the backlog after dinner and gf was waiting to watch the movie so I didn't reply
[09:12] <flexiondotorg> I've snapped an application. Currently devmode, but working towards strict.
[09:12] <seb128> flexiondotorg, we renamed "runtime" to "platform"
[09:13] <seb128> in the gnome framework
[09:13] <flexiondotorg> Thanks ^
[09:13] <seb128> also the desktop launcher creates the mountpoint for you now
[09:13] <seb128> so one less thing to do in the consumer snap side
[09:13]  * happyaron noted platform to his vocabulary of snap
[09:13] <flexiondotorg> Ah, nice.
[09:14] <flexiondotorg> seb128 So the snap I have has a feature to "Laucnh at Login"
[09:14] <flexiondotorg> *Launch
[09:14] <flexiondotorg> Work correctly place a desktop file in ~/snap/<snap>/rev/.config/autostart
[09:15] <seb128> does that work?
[09:15] <seb128> (I guess not)
[09:15] <flexiondotorg> Well, I'm just about to test in a VM. I'm guessing not.
[09:16] <flexiondotorg> We'll see.
[09:16] <seb128> I don't see how that could work
[09:16] <seb128> it needs to be in a xdg path from the session
[09:16] <flexiondotorg> If not, do you think symlink to locations in the desktop helpers is the correct way to handle this?
[09:17] <seb128> that seems hackish
[09:17] <seb128> is that a dynamic option?
[09:17] <flexiondotorg> Is XDG_CONFIG_DIRS the right env to poke?
[09:17] <seb128> like can you check/uncheck a box in the preferences to create/delete the desktop?
[09:17] <flexiondotorg> seb128 Yes ^
[09:17] <seb128> XDG_CONFIG_DIRS yes
[09:18] <flexiondotorg> This application is closed source, so I've not idea if they honour XDG_*
[09:18] <flexiondotorg> It could be hardcoded.
[09:18] <seb128> it's easy to test
[09:18] <flexiondotorg> Yeah.
[09:18] <seb128> but that env is a list of dirs
[09:18] <flexiondotorg> Ok, you've given me some food for thought.
[09:18] <seb128> so it doesn't help you much
[09:19] <flexiondotorg> I'll do some testing and get some more details.
[09:47] <Trevinho> hi friends
[09:48] <Trevinho> willcooke: I forgot to send my notes yesterday morning, sorry.... :-(
[09:48] <willcooke> blimey, it's Trevinho before noon :)
[09:48] <willcooke> Trevinho, np
[09:48] <Trevinho> eheh, well... he's IRCing before noon...
[09:48] <Trevinho> I'm the kind of person that doesn't like to speak in the morning :-D
[09:49] <willcooke> XD
[09:52] <seb128> hey Trevinho!
[10:00] <seb128> hum,  my firefox doesn't like the update_excuses page, it freezes on it for a while
[10:13] <flexiondotorg> Morning Trevinho
[10:13] <flexiondotorg> Trevinho If you have the time later, I think I need some help :-)
[10:16] <Trevinho> flexiondotorg: sure, also now if you want
[10:16] <flexiondotorg> I just need to complete some testing, so I can be sure of my facts.
[10:20] <flexiondotorg> Trevinho While I create my Zesty VM, perhaps we can start the conversation :-)
[10:20] <flexiondotorg> I have snapped a closed source application.
[10:20] <flexiondotorg> I'm testing this on 16.04.
[10:20] <flexiondotorg> I've got Indicators "working".
[10:21] <flexiondotorg> But like the Indicators in Sergios Telegram snap, the icon is a broken image.
[10:22] <flexiondotorg> I've just installed your updated libappindicator* from the ci-train.
[10:22] <flexiondotorg> No changed on 16.04 :-(
[10:25] <Trevinho> flexiondotorg: is that qt or gtk?
[10:26] <flexiondotorg> GTK
[10:26] <Trevinho> flexiondotorg: is that using a themed icon?
[10:26] <flexiondotorg> GTK2+ infact. It's an Electron app, which are linked against GTK2+
[10:26] <flexiondotorg> Closed source, so I can't be sure.
[10:27] <flexiondotorg> There are icons in hicolor and pixmaps
[10:28] <Trevinho> flexiondotorg: I've not tested much the electron case with indicators, but it shouldn't be much different
[10:29] <Trevinho> seb128: as per discussion with didrocks (https://github.com/ubuntu/snapcraft-desktop-helpers/pull/36#issuecomment-276000741); want me to add the indicator-gtk3 thing in the runtime again (i.e merging my branch with your changes)?
[10:32] <seb128> Trevinho, I don't know, as said before when we discussed it in DenHaag we said that the runtime would be a GNOME one, not include unity integration bits
[10:33] <seb128> we could change that but maybe we should have a meeting/team discussion about it first
[10:33] <seb128> is there many apps that would benefit from including the indicator in the gnome runtime?
[10:34] <seb128> and if we do that why don't we include libunity as well to integrate with the launcher?
[10:35] <Trevinho> seb128: sure, I'd include both in fact... But, libunity is really just for unity... appindicator is also used by mate, kde and elementary
[10:39] <seb128> right, but it's not part of the GNOME platform
[10:39] <seb128> we didn't include poppler or external GNOMEish libs so far
[10:40] <seb128> k, need to go for lunch we can rediscuss it later, as said I don't feel strongly about it, just need to decide how we define that runtime, but also that part/lib is easy to bundle for apps if needed
[10:45] <didrocks> yeah, I guess it should be from package (hence my comment)
[11:03] <jbicha> seb128: I'm impressed that the excuses page *doesn't* freeze up chromium (I still use Firefox most of the time)
[11:04] <jbicha> good morning
[11:18] <flexiondotorg> jbicha o/
[11:19] <Laney> I remembered last night (while I was in bed...) that I had wanted to revert https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/3.20.2-1ubuntu6
[11:20] <Laney> but I forgot to do it earlier in the zesty cycle
[11:20] <Laney> worth another go now, or too late?
[11:23] <jbicha> this is another time where I wish Ubuntu had an implementation of Debian's codesearch tool
[11:24] <jbicha> speaking of gnome-session, is it safe to drop the upstart parts there?
[11:25] <Laney> is /etc/upstart-xsessions empty?
[11:25] <Laney> only unity8 stuff, I think they don't use gnome-session
[11:28] <Laney> I would like to say we can drop all the upstart session stuff
[11:28] <Laney> but the truth is I'm not completely sure
[11:28] <jbicha> that directory doesn't exist on my zesty computer
[11:28] <Laney> it's a file
[11:29] <Laney> upstart: /etc/upstart-xsessions
[11:30] <jbicha> ok, I see the unity8 stuff there; no other desktops still use upstart?
[11:30] <Laney> I don't think it's on any more images
[11:31] <Laney> if it were me I'd wait until upstart itself is removed
[11:32] <jbicha> ok, it's not really hurting anything there :)
[11:34] <Trevinho> didrocks: sure, it has to be from package... SRU is in progress
[11:55] <Sweet5hark> moin
[12:08] <flexiondotorg> jbicha I've replied to the UKUI bug to hopefully provide some more information that can reduce the number of forks required.
[12:37] <seb128> flexiondotorg, what is UKUI?
[12:38] <jbicha> seb128: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/02/ukui-linux-desktop-environment-ubuntu-kylin
[12:38] <jbicha> bug 1663477
[12:39] <jbicha> like I've been saying, Kylin sure didn't communicate about this to anyone else in Ubuntu (at least before this weekend)
[12:43] <seb128> jbicha, thanks, I fail to understand what's the issue with that though?
[12:47] <jbicha> the issue with UKUI or the issue with communicating?
[12:47] <jbicha> originally they were forking a lot more packages than they needed
[12:48] <seb128> with UKUI
[12:48] <seb128> it's opensource, if they want to diverge and create their things it's their choice
[12:49] <happyaron> they still have regular meetings with ypwong about ukui
[12:49] <jbicha> we don't have a file manager that is designed to resemble Windows Explorer so that's ok if they want to do that
[12:49] <happyaron> but neither I or FJ_Kong is involved more that giving overall suggestions.
[12:49] <seb128> the most recent comment from flexiondotorg has a good summary
[12:50] <happyaron> s/more that/more than/
[12:50] <jbicha> I'm not sure that they have a record of being able to maintain their forks so that's a possible concern for acceptance into the archives
[12:50] <seb128> oh come on
[12:50] <seb128> we never blocked things to be uploaded to Ubuntu because upstream has not a good record of maintaining a project
[12:50] <seb128> like new stuff are new you can't even know that
[12:51] <jbicha> actually MATE took a while to be accepted into either Debian or Ubuntu
[12:51] <jbicha> and this is what they have to show for the file manager
[12:51] <jbicha> https://github.com/ukui/peony/commits/master
[12:55] <flexiondotorg> jbicha seb128 One of the devs has joined #mate-dev and we're talking.
[12:55] <flexiondotorg> I'm ok with the fork.
[12:55] <flexiondotorg> I just don't want them to make more work for themselves.
[12:55] <jbicha> I don't think I'm blocking them (the opposite actually) but it's quite a bit of a work to review and sponsor these packages for initial upload
[12:56] <flexiondotorg> And ideally rebase from master so they get the latest fixes improvements.
[12:56] <flexiondotorg> Which ^ will also help the review.
[12:56] <jbicha> if flexion has time to sponsor them, he's the most familiar with the MATE stack
[12:57] <flexiondotorg> I only have upload power for the MATE stuff.
[12:57] <flexiondotorg> I can help with the review though.
[12:57] <flexiondotorg> ANd my last comment explains what I think we be the best approach.
[12:57] <flexiondotorg> They've already reduced the fork from 20 to 10.
[12:57] <flexiondotorg> I think we can get that to 7, perhaps 5.
[12:57] <jbicha> yes if you sign off, I think it will be relatively easy to find a MOTU to sponsor based on that
[12:58] <flexiondotorg> OK, sure thing.
[13:05] <flexiondotorg> jbicha The UKUI guys are optimistic that my mate-panel suggestion will work. They are going to give that a try.
[13:05] <flexiondotorg> I understand why forks of ukui-screensaver, ukui-control-conter are required now.
[13:06] <flexiondotorg> Aesthetics that upstream won't accept.
[13:06] <flexiondotorg> They are on a deadline for 17.04.
[13:06] <flexiondotorg> So now time to rebase the forks now, but they have agreed to do so at the start of the 17.10 cycle.
[13:07] <flexiondotorg> Which is good enough for me.
[13:07] <jbicha> from the bug, it looks like they wanted to get their stuff in by beta1 which is probably not going to happen but there's still time for 17.04
[13:09] <jbicha> probably the wrong channel, but it's a bit unclear if a Feature Freeze Exception is needed for stuff that only affects one non-Canonical flavor
[13:35] <jbicha> I updated the gtk3 packaging for zesty to 3.22.8; don't know whether I should upload to zesty now or wait for content-hub/s390x
[13:36] <xnox> jbicha, upload without mir/content-hub build-deps on s390x.
[13:36] <xnox> jbicha, or upload; and i will followup with mirless build on s390x.
[13:37] <xnox> jbicha, content-hub/u-a-l will take longer than we thought (there is further porting work required, not just packaging/build changes)
[13:37] <xnox> hm, i wonder if i can build click-less and upstart-less u-a-p on s390x
[13:41] <tsdgeos> anyone knows what would be the best way for the distro to default to evdev driver instead of wacom driver for the Yoga 460 touchscreen?
[13:41] <tsdgeos> so that it actually works as a proper touchscreen
[13:42] <tsdgeos> i changed /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/70-wacom.conf to use evdev for
[13:42] <tsdgeos> MatchIsTouchscreen "true"
[13:42] <tsdgeos> but that seems like a bit backwards since the "wacom" conf file would be loading the "evdev" driver
[13:45] <seb128> tsdgeos, tjaalton might know
[13:45] <tsdgeos> tx
[13:45] <tsdgeos> seb128: now that you're here https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/geonames/more_liberal_city_search/+merge/316102 ;)
[13:46] <seb128> lol, oh right, that one ... sorry got sidetracked, I do it this afternoon for sure
[14:21] <tjaalton> tsdgeos: why not wacom?
[14:21] <tsdgeos> tjaalton: because wacom doesn't send touchevents, just emulated mouse events, so with the wacom driver i can't do 3 finger touch for example, while with the evdev driver i can
[14:23] <tjaalton> -evdev is in universe btw, -libinput replaced it
[14:23] <tsdgeos> right, libinput should probably work too
[14:23] <tsdgeos> let me try it
[14:24]  * tsdgeos reboots back in a minute
[14:27] <tsdgeos> tjaalton: yes, libinput is fine too
[14:42] <qengho> Many of you will be happy to learn Chromium and Google Chrome are switching from Gtk2 to 3.
[14:44] <seb128> they should wait for the next gtk to be out :p
[14:45] <ogra_> GTK5 !
[14:47] <tsdgeos> aren't they at GTK200 by now?
[14:47] <tsdgeos> or they scrapped that let's increase the number every release thign?
[15:19] <Sweet5hark> seb128: -0ubuntu2 build did hang due to locking issues(?) and was canceled. looks like an infra hickup, can you retry?
[15:20] <seb128> Sweet5hark, yeah, I cancelled it earlier but it was taking time and didn't go back to retry yet
[15:21] <seb128> somebody else did it apparently
[15:22] <Sweet5hark> seb128: k, thanks.
[15:22]  * Laney <-
[15:22] <Laney> before the request, actually
[15:22]  * Laney was browsing excuses for problems
[15:23] <Sweet5hark> Laney: hugs
[15:24] <Laney> hugs to you
[15:24] <Laney> the changelog made me excited
[17:30] <qengho> Well that's upsetting. My chromium memory-freeing bug went away after rebooting.
[17:30]  * qengho boggles.
[18:29] <flexiondotorg> qengho o/
[18:29] <flexiondotorg> Did you hear anymore from RPF?
[18:39] <qengho> flexiondotorg: not very recently. J is cleaning up things he's not happy about.
[18:39] <qengho> flexiondotorg: I split apart the grand patch and that made the warts more visible.
[18:39] <flexiondotorg> Thanks. Yeah, the last I saw he wanted to cleanup.
[19:18] <willcooke> night all!