[00:29] <krytarik> knome, flocculant: This is what I've done locally with regards to the doc syntax errors Unit193 referred to, further formatting errors, the few typos I mentioned yesterday, as well as some wordings that I think could be improved - please review, before I do anything with it: http://paste.openstack.org/show/l8oDqhn3ZEl9yO5YKrGO/
[00:35] <knome> krytarik, lgtm
[01:21] <Unit193> bluesabre: Granted, could FFe (or ask if needed) with notifyd.
[01:22] <knome> has somebody taken care to reply to renan almeida, who contacted team through LP on PT-BR translation?
[07:41] <flocculant> krytarik: typo > windowi
[07:42] <krytarik> Ah nice!  Didn't notice that. :P
[07:44] <flocculant> otherwise I'm fine :)
[07:44] <flocculant> re your pm ... 
[07:45] <krytarik> Alright, guess I'll push it right away then.
[07:45] <flocculant> :)
[07:46] <flocculant> only 'really' looked at what you said in pm - not sure how I noticed windowi :p
[07:46] <krytarik> lol
[07:46] <flocculant> as you've seen I have a love/hate relationship with punctuation :D
[07:47] <krytarik> Yes yes! :P
[07:47] <flocculant> sometimes I love to hate it and then don't bother 
[08:54] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-docs:: [zesty] r629 Syntax, formatting, typo, and wording fixes. (by Krytarik Raido)
[12:55] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xfce4-announce:: ANNOUNCE: xfce4-mount-plugin 1.1.1 released @ http://xfce.10915.n7.nabble.com/ANNOUNCE-xfce4-mount-plugin-1-1-1-released-tp48911.html (by Fabian Nowak)
[19:22] <ali1234> xrandr
[19:24] <ali1234> hey so gtk3 is completely broken under virtualbox now
[19:26] <flocculant> not used vbox for ~3 cycles or so
[19:27] <ali1234> if you install virtualbox-guest-x11 then gtk3 programs immediately exit at startup with no error
[19:27] <ali1234> before they even open a window
[19:27] <flocculant> ali1234: which one - repo or vbox( or both I guess)
[19:27] <ali1234> note that virtualbox-guest-utils no longer installs -x11
[19:27] <ali1234> everything from 17.04 repos
[19:28] <flocculant> never used to install that - used vbox version and their guest stuff
[19:29] <flocculant> ali1234:  is -x11 needed? 
[19:29] <ali1234> without it, the xfce4 display settings dialog segfaults at startup
[19:30]  * flocculant installs it 
[19:30] <flocculant> is there an lp bug? tried ubuntu at all? 
[19:31] <ali1234> there is an LP bug which i submitted
[19:31] <ali1234> it was marked as a duplicate of a private bug, so you can't see it, and i can't make it public
[19:31] <flocculant> vbox won't even start
[19:31] <flocculant> oh probably need some services to start
[19:32] <ali1234> bug 1665048
[19:32] <ali1234> oh yeah
[19:32] <ali1234> i unlinked it from the duplicate
[19:38] <flocculant> yea saw that one
[19:39] <flocculant> ali1234: from the live session display settings is fine, and when you say gtk3 programs - do you mean any?
[19:39] <ali1234> seems like pretty much any program at all
[19:40] <ali1234> i'm doing a backtrace for dislay settings manually
[19:40] <ali1234> since apport wont do it
[19:41] <flocculant> well tried calc, archive, menulibre - all gtk3 afaik - all work
[19:41] <ali1234> did you reboot?
[19:41] <flocculant> installing now - see if there's a difference
[19:41] <ali1234> are you in the live session?
[19:41] <flocculant> yea
[19:41] <ali1234> because live session works fine
[19:41] <flocculant> ok - see ^^ :)
[19:42] <ali1234> you have to install it, then fully update all packages, then install virtualbox-guest-x11, then reboot
[19:42] <ali1234> you might also need to enable two monitors in the machine config
[19:42] <flocculant> I'll see ig I can confirm - I'll also see if it all goes belly up in ubuntu
[19:42] <flocculant> ack
[19:46] <flocculant> rebooting with 2 monitors
[19:47] <flocculant> or trying to reboot
[19:48] <ali1234> the reboot dialog is one of the few things that doesn't get broken
[19:48] <ali1234> the control panel stuff still works too
[19:48] <ali1234> as does xterm
[19:49] <flocculant> won't boot
[19:49] <ali1234> nice :/
[19:49] <flocculant> tries to lightdm - vbox window itself resizes itself 4 or 5 times - then it just sits there
[19:50] <ali1234> well i never saw that one
[19:50] <ali1234> although - i set up my VM to auto login
[19:50] <ali1234> so maybe it never even tries to show lightdm
[19:51] <ali1234> press right-ctrl + f1 to get to a console
[19:51] <flocculant> tried restarting lightdm 
[19:52] <ali1234> try removing virtualbox-guest-x11 and rebooting
[19:52] <flocculant> if that was going to be next :)
[19:53] <flocculant> yup - booted
[19:53] <flocculant> nice 
[19:54] <flocculant> up arrow to move it to 2 displays, I stopped it when it had reached 38
[19:57] <flocculant> ok - so that's knackered ... trying to replicate that with Ubuntu now
[19:58] <flocculant> ali1234: ok - so without the -x11 - got a boot, without it will let me set 2 displays but only see's one when booted (I assume expected given -x11 not installed)
[19:59] <ali1234> it works fine if i install from the VBOXADDITIONS CD image
[19:59] <ali1234> not sure about display settings though
[20:00] <flocculant> I got some error trying to install that
[20:00] <ali1234> yeah you will unless you purge the repo packages
[20:00] <ali1234> -x11 pulls in -utils
[20:00] <ali1234> not the other way around
[20:00] <flocculant> aah ok
[20:02] <ali1234> the display settings thing - there's reports of the same crash without virtualbox even involved
[20:03] <flocculant> I'll dig out old monitor tomorrow and try on hardware
[20:03] <ali1234> it seems quite hard to reproduce
[20:05] <ali1234> oh yeah ubuntu removed droid fonts :(
[20:05] <knome> yes, because droid isn't "supported"
[20:06] <flocculant> evening knome 
[20:06] <knome> hello
[20:08] <ali1234> what is the default font of gnome?
[20:08] <flocculant> ali1234: with ubuntu - sometimes see the ubuntu splash screen when vbox window does it's bizarre thing
[20:13] <knome> don't know about gnome, but if you haven't been following, "noto" is the "successor" for droid
[20:13] <knome> ali1234, ^
[20:13] <ali1234> i know noto is the successor
[20:13] <knome> and nice to see your nick around here again :)
[20:13] <ali1234> gnome uses cantarell
[20:14] <knome> right... why do i link that to apple? :P
[20:14] <ali1234> trouble is that noto looks really awful on gtk because it is aligned differently
[20:14] <knome> it takes getting used to
[20:14] <ali1234> cantarell is aligned properly but it is really really thin like a MS font
[20:14] <knome> i didn't want to use noto at first but now i'm fine with it
[20:14] <knome> i had the exact same issue...
[20:15] <ali1234> by "differently" i mean it's visibly misaligned
[20:15] <knome> could a DPI change fix that?
[20:16] <knome> and yes i guess it can be a bit misaligned at places too
[20:16] <ali1234> all my systems are overridden to 96 DPI already
[20:16] <ali1234> noto actually looks better in the "new" adwaita
[20:16] <ali1234> the one that cuts the top and bottom off icons
[20:16] <knome> right
[20:22] <flocculant> ali1234: reinstalling xubuntu - tried the vbox version and that wouldn't install, some dep on libpng version
[20:23] <flocculant> anyway - just want to be sure here - install -guest-utils in guest or host? 
[20:23] <ali1234> in guest
[20:23] <ali1234> dont install anything in the host
[20:23] <ali1234> except virtualbox
[20:23] <knome> ;)
[20:23] <flocculant> knome: long time since I vbox'd :)
[20:23] <ali1234> it seems to be caused by version mismatch anyway
[20:23] <ali1234> i have't noticed any problems yet
[20:24] <ali1234> after installing the utils supplied by the host virtualbox
[20:26] <flocculant> that might be why it was having a paddy then - had other stuff installed on host
[20:31] <flocculant> ali1234: can't confirm that bug - tried a few times
[20:33] <flocculant> installing -x11 and I get this odd window resizing issue
[20:35] <ali1234> er... what the heck happened to font rendering in libvte??
[20:36] <ali1234> its like it is using a completely different font for bold text
[20:37] <ali1234> oh right... that's because it is...
[20:39] <ali1234> (yes, xfce terminal does the same thing)
[20:43] <ali1234> i suppose this is why there is a "allow bold text" option
[20:45] <ali1234> oh i see. it is hinting
[20:49] <ali1234> greybird-accessibility decorations are nice...
[20:50] <ali1234> its basically orion :)
[20:53] <flocculant> ali1234: can't get it to crash with a second monitor on nvidia either
[20:53] <ali1234> what?
[20:53] <ali1234> which bug are you actually testing now?
[20:53] <ali1234> the xfce-display-settings bug doesn't need dual monitors
[20:53] <flocculant> well not the vbox thing - but you mentioned people seeing issue without vbox 
[20:54] <ali1234> i've seen it happen in virtualbox with just one monitor
[20:54] <flocculant> ok
[20:54] <ali1234> there are reports of it happening outside virtualbox with two monitors
[20:54] <flocculant> yes - I read that - not seeing it
[20:57] <bluesabre> evening all
[20:57] <flocculant> anyway - reported the issue I did see - and likely won't see anything added to that till someone marks it aas let's ignore it
[20:58] <flocculant> ali1234: might be worth seeing if slickymaster can replicate your issue, pretty sure he uses vbox all the time
[20:59] <flocculant> hi bluesabre 
[20:59] <ali1234> to be honest it was probably caused by the bad virtualbox guest utils as well
[20:59] <ali1234> would be nice if it didn't crash on bad input though
[21:00] <ali1234> it's not like xrandr was completely wrong or unavailable
[21:00] <ali1234> i'll make yet another vm and try to repro it again
[21:01] <ali1234> im sure i once managed to make it crash with no guest utils at all
[21:01] <flocculant> :)
[21:02] <bluesabre> ali1234, there was an update to fontconfig last year that made everything worse, particularly vte
[21:03] <bluesabre> worse sounds negative
[21:03] <bluesabre> "different"
[21:04] <flocculant> nothing wrong with worse, unless you're a snowflake :p
[21:05] <ali1234> it does look a bit different
[21:05] <ali1234> but all the problems i mentioned above i was able to recreate in 16.04
[21:05] <bluesabre> flocculant, the pervasion of that word in the few months >.<
[21:05] <ali1234> by changing the settings
[21:05] <flocculant> bluesabre: yea I knome  
[21:05] <flocculant> sigh
[21:05] <flocculant> I know ...
[21:06] <bluesabre> we all knome from time to time
[21:06] <flocculant> ha ha 
[21:06] <ali1234> i think a few defaults have changed
[21:06] <ali1234> plus its hard to tell when i can't use my regular font any more :(
[21:07] <flocculant> bluesabre: assuming that we've still got broken lock this week - what do you think we should do on Thursday - b1 release day
[21:08] <bluesabre> :(
[21:09] <bluesabre> let's pull in robert this week and see whats up
[21:11] <bluesabre> flocculant, have we had any updates regarding that recently?
[21:11] <flocculant> bluesabre: not since the one that you and ochosi were relaxed about
[21:11] <flocculant> not so easy for me to catch him - timezones
[21:13] <ali1234> hmm okay this is weird. i have a font installed called just "sans"
[21:13] <ali1234> that's what i was using all along, because droid sans isn't even installed. when i changed fonts, droid sans disappeared from the list and i could not reselect it
[21:22] <ali1234> http://askubuntu.com/questions/885122/what-is-the-font-in-ubuntu-which-is-just-called-sans
[21:26] <knome> isn't that dejavu sans?
[21:26] <ali1234> yes, sort of
[21:26] <ali1234> https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1675235
[21:26] <ali1234> basically, "Sans" is a fallback which for me (and probably most people) ends up as dejavu sans
[21:26] <knome> yep
[21:27] <knome> dejavu sans is pretty extensive, so i don't think it needs many glyphs from other fonts
[21:27] <ali1234> that also explains why i thought i was using droid, but really i was using dejavu
[21:28] <ali1234> and also why noto looks completely different
[21:28] <ali1234> because it really is
[21:29] <knome> the droid/noto comparison is considerable too
[21:30] <ali1234> dejavu is *much* wider than droid/noto
[21:30] <knome> yep
[21:30] <ali1234> for me that's the most noticable difference
[21:31] <knome> there's also height difference with noto/droid
[21:31] <knome> not sure how they compare to dejavu sans
[21:31] <ali1234> yep, and with ubuntu as well
[21:31] <knome> yep
[21:31] <ali1234> youd think a 10 pt font would always be the same size
[21:31] <ali1234> at least in one dimension
[21:31] <knome> though you could kind of expect that noto/droid were closer...
[21:31] <knome> fonts are weird
[21:51] <ali1234> okay i reproduced the display crash
[21:55] <ali1234> got it nailed down this time
[23:16] <ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg5WRaaHEXQ