[05:11] <daftykins> i'm sure these chocolate hobnobs are smaller in diameter...
[07:19] <zmoylan-pi> i'm sure the daily mail would expose such a thing
[08:47] <diplo> Morning all
[09:11] <davmor2> Morning all
[09:36] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:00] <JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Monday, and happy Love Your Pet Day! 😃
[10:01] <zmoylan-pi> when's hate your pet day?
[10:02] <JamesTait> Every day for some people. 🙁
[10:03] <JamesTait> It does seem like a pretty strange holiday though.
[10:03] <JamesTait> It's also Handcuffs Day!
[10:04] <zmoylan-pi> which is not weird at all...
[10:11] <zmoylan-pi> no love for leg manacles?
[10:30] <davmor2> JamesTait: I think this covers all the words https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InBiaRBUjUs
[10:34]  * popey shakes fist at decorator unplugging router
[10:35] <zmoylan-pi> you don't have a rasp pi constantly checking the status of internet and starting a warning siren when net is down? :-)
[10:40] <popey> no, I have a son sat next to me yelling that youtube no longer works :)
[10:40] <popey> which amounts to much the same thing, but requires more marshmallows to keep running
[11:26] <diplo> hah +1 that popey, my kids would know the internet was down before me
[11:27] <Seeker`> I know the internet is down because my pancreas stops working
[13:47] <foobarry> if i book a smart meter upgrade but change my supplier i wonder what will happen
[13:48] <zmoylan-pi> they'll fit 2 smart meters which will fight for dominance ::puts on trek fighting music::
[13:51] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: It reverts to being a dumb meter, but can still be attacked
[13:52] <TwistedLucidity> At this time, there is no compelling reason to get a smart meter.
[13:53] <foobarry> attacked how?
[13:53] <zmoylan-pi> has anyone hacked them to download torrents on yet? :-P
[13:54] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Well, there's basic hacking just to annoy people. Then there's making them explode - https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/01/04/smart_metres_ccc/
[13:54] <TwistedLucidity> Until there are some guarantees as to security, updates and transferring between suppliers; I wouldn't even consider them.
[13:55] <TwistedLucidity> And by "security" I include not leaking usage data as that could be used to determine if anyone is home.
[13:56] <foobarry> thx
[13:56] <foobarry> need to find a new supplier too :(
[13:56] <TwistedLucidity> I would take the "explode" thing with a pinch of salt, but they are far from ready for prime-time.
[13:57] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Ovo. Cheap and you can earn interest on any credit balance.
[13:57] <foobarry> energy costs seem to be 15% higher this year
[13:59] <TwistedLucidity> Scottish Power are cheap, but their customer service is abysmal and I simply cannot recommend them.
[14:03] <foobarry> ovo look expensive
[14:03] <foobarry> £69 pm
[14:03] <foobarry> currently pay £52
[14:10] <davmor2> foobarry: are you pay as you go or monthly payment?  Ovo only do anything decent on pay as you go and that is only moderately better than some pay as you go providers
[14:11] <foobarry> monthly
[14:12] <davmor2> foobarry: then you are most likely better off with a major brand but have a look at uswitch
[14:13] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: you can't have cheap and customer services
[14:17] <foobarry> going with sainsburys again
[14:17] <foobarry> its a joke
[14:17] <foobarry> sainsburys->bg->sainsburys
[14:17] <foobarry> sainsburys is BG anyway
[14:18] <TwistedLucidity> We pay around £80pcm; but the two of us work from home and we have a bit of credit.
[14:19] <TwistedLucidity> As in, balance is overpaid.
[14:19] <davmor2> foobarry: sainsbury's are just a reseller for scottish power :)
[14:20] <TwistedLucidity> Also, living in a single-brick walled 1930s council house means heat loss is an issue.
[14:20] <foobarry> british gas reseller
[14:20] <zmoylan-pi> i just got my 2 monthly leccy bill for a really cold winter were i used a fair bit of power for heat... €45pm
[14:37] <foobarry> Company info: Robin Hood Energy is a not-for-profit supplier launched by Nottingham City Council in September 2015. It offers three tariffs nationwide across fixed, variable and prepay.
[14:37] <foobarry>  Sainsbury's Energy is operated by British Gas. If you have a British Gas smart meter you’ll be able to get the deal, but you'll lose access to the 'MyEnergy Live' service and any online smart meter functionality.
[16:41] <diddledan> morning
[16:45] <SuperMatt> hola
[19:08] <DJones> Odd question, but does anybody know of any laptops with a white keyboard?  My mums looking for a new laptop because her old one won't connect to the internet (I know all thats needed is a reinstall of Win 10, or Ubuntu etc), but she wants a new laptop,  so far I think I've found a HP and an Asus
[19:08] <DJones> http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/computing/laptops/laptops/asus-x541sa-15-6-laptop-white-office-365-personal-livesafe-unlimited-2016-unlimited-for-1-year-b0420359-pdt.html
[19:08] <DJones> http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/computing/laptops/laptops/hp-pavilion-15-au072sa-15-6-laptop-white-10146645-pdt.html
[19:09] <DJones> She's looking to pay up to £350
[19:10] <DJones> HP has the better spec, but given that she only uses email, googletalk via pidgin, a web browser for facebook/twitter, not much point in paying the extra £100 for the HP
[19:10] <DJones> Ideally something she could go and look in a shop as well
[19:12] <DJones> The white keyboard is a requirement, even black backlit keyboards don't get her approval
[19:13] <DJones> I think she'll stretch the budget for the HP, but maybe not necessary
[19:15] <zmoylan-pi> yeah, black keyboards are cool till you try to hack in a balaclava and a hoody only lit by the light of the screen at 2am... :-)
[19:20] <DJones> Been there, done that (ish), was sat in a church service having to modify powerpoint && video presentations, somebody turned the lights out because it was a candle lit service & needed the church to be dark
[19:20] <DJones> Just glad I had a backlit keyboard to make changes
[19:28] <zmoylan-pi> night vision goggles for typing are totally overkill... :-P
[19:28] <diddledan> airpods are dogpoof https://twitter.com/X15/status/833756723781496832
[19:30] <zmoylan-pi> get back to me after they've passed through the digestive tract of said dog... :-P
[19:30] <diddledan> I'd rather not try them after that
[19:32] <zmoylan-pi> that's when you sell them on ebay and buy new ones...
[19:38] <zmoylan-pi> or use the money to buy a phone with a headphone socket
[19:43]  * zmoylan-pi offers diddledan a real nokia dumbphone :-P
[22:37] <diddledan> omg, I have many people I talk to online about computer things: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/20/is_your_child_a_hacker_liverpudlian_parents_handed_cyber_checklist
[22:38] <diddledan> am I a cyb0r criminal?!
[22:42] <zmoylan-pi> do you own a cool balaclava? :-P https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvjMed6Wlug
[22:46] <diddledan> this is a good response to the list: https://twitter.com/defcon/status/833806391965921280
[22:47] <zmoylan-pi> i might be able to get you a pager for when the police raid your gaff... :-P
[22:48] <diddledan> \o/
[22:48] <zmoylan-pi> i saw one in use about a year, maybe 2 ago... i was stunned that there were pagers still been used in anger
[22:48] <zmoylan-pi> seems a few private companies prefer them
[22:49] <diddledan> the local asda uses them iirc
[22:49] <zmoylan-pi> so a few transmitters scattered about the country covers the island
[22:49] <diddledan> the supervisor team on the checkouts use them to get alerts when a cashier wants their nose wiped :-p
[22:50] <zmoylan-pi> funny part was that the pagers were the same motorolas i had at work in 90s
[22:50] <diddledan> yup
[22:50] <diddledan> not changed one bit
[22:50] <zmoylan-pi> indestructable.  even compared to a nokia
[22:50] <zmoylan-pi> drop in one aa battery every few months.  carry a spare battery in the pager at same time.
[22:51] <daftykins> so that's how you can tell, they wear a hood even when indoors!
[22:51] <diddledan> ffaster disks! https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/20/linux_4_10_released/
[22:52] <diddledan> the kernel just spins them a 6000 rpm instead of the usual 5400
[22:52] <zmoylan-pi> have you never seen a daily mail story on hacking.  always a balaclava wearing scoundrel at night hunched over a laptop... too cheap to put a band aid over the laptop camera i suspect
[22:52] <daftykins> and more for the 7,200 and 10,000? ;)
[22:52] <diddledan> yup
[22:52] <diddledan> the 7200s go at 7750 and the 10000 go at 11000
[22:52]  * zmoylan-pi remebers over formatting floppy drives and the fun that gave us...
[22:53] <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: are you excited about the new Nokia 3310?
[22:55] <zmoylan-pi> it depends on the spec.  must 1) be indestructable as old 3310 and 2) handle java apps plus 3) battery life measured in seasons yada yada yada... :-)
[22:55] <diddledan> thos java apps have to be MIDP and not more featurefull implementations
[22:56] <diddledan> has to ONLY be compatible with turn of the minellium mobile apps
[22:56] <zmoylan-pi> but if they made one with bt and allowed say a rasp pi to use it as a data link it would make great data component of a rasp pi pda/laptop frankenputer
[22:57] <diddledan> 9600 bps
[22:57] <diddledan> it better not have 3G capability!
[22:57] <zmoylan-pi> but they might do a new mini/new vw beetle and make a bad implementation if the marketing department is involved...
[22:58] <zmoylan-pi> it'll have to do 3g as 2g is been switched off in lots of places
[22:58] <daftykins> blech java
[22:58] <zmoylan-pi> blech android :-)
[22:58] <zmoylan-pi> blech ios
[22:58] <zmoylan-pi> blech is there any one else? :-)
[22:59] <daftykins> nah, thankfully most have given up
[22:59] <diddledan> I wonder if zebbedy zebra will include the 4.10 kernel
[22:59] <zmoylan-pi> i'm sure ms has a few billion to try again...
[23:00] <zmoylan-pi> and tizen is allegedly in use in some parts of the world
[23:00] <diddledan> haha
[23:00] <daftykins> think it's in some TVs yeah
[23:00] <diddledan> you said tizen!
[23:00] <daftykins> as is FirefoxOS despite being dead
[23:00] <daftykins> tizer!
[23:00] <zmoylan-pi> i believe in phones too
[23:00] <diddledan> tizen was invented as a drunken joke
[23:01] <diddledan> the problem is the marketing guy didn't realise
[23:01] <zmoylan-pi> they'll never make it to europe as well  they'd have to customise for 20+ languages to see a few 1000
[23:01] <daftykins> for which? dunno if phone Tizen has made it out of Korea
[23:03] <zmoylan-pi> i bought a oth usb drive over weekend.  i was going to buy one for a gamer mates birthday but they use ios and 16gb cost €60 whereas the same for android costs €13... couldn't justify that level of gouging
[23:04] <zmoylan-pi> *otg
[23:05] <daftykins> just need an adapter and any drive surely
[23:06] <zmoylan-pi> apple do like their propietary connectors and you need an ios app to access it.  from the ones i've tried.  locked to the hardware
[23:06] <zmoylan-pi> android as horrible as it is will talk to anything if you plug it in. :-)
[23:07] <daftykins> last time you were moaning about Android, it was an ancient version
[23:07] <daftykins> works for me!
[23:07] <zmoylan-pi> problem with android is that over a year old is an ancient version
[23:08] <daftykins> same for every mobile OS.
[23:08] <zmoylan-pi> i spotted an ancient mint condition e63 in a shop window for €39.  works great. :-) from 2009...
[23:09] <daftykins> security through obscurity isn't any at all
[23:09] <zmoylan-pi> it's secure because symbian was designed from scratch to disallow everything. something that was only added to android after it was out a few years
[23:10] <zmoylan-pi> but you are right about obscurity not been secure.
[23:10] <daftykins> you're coming dangerously close to sounding like an XP user saying "ah it's fine"
[23:11] <zmoylan-pi> well.... i did run an email server on win95 for 5 years or so... :-)
[23:12] <zmoylan-pi> ran for years without an issue... replaced with exchange which needed rebooting once per week on average...
[23:13] <zmoylan-pi> and in ireland, it's not 'fine' it's 'grand' :-P
[23:13] <daftykins> yeah i know some Irish lingo
[23:14] <diddledan> to be sure
[23:14] <daftykins> x2!
[23:18] <diddledan> to to sleep
[23:18] <zmoylan-pi> o/ sleep well
[23:19] <daftykins> whaaaaat
[23:19] <daftykins> diddledan: have you become normal!?
[23:19] <zmoylan-pi> it has become quiet here at night... i have to amuse myself practicing my klingon battle chants at 3am
[23:22] <daftykins> ah you need more operas on tape
[23:22] <zmoylan-pi> 8 track for maximum hipstering