[08:42] <desrt> good morning, lazies
[08:43] <hikiko> hi desrt
[08:43] <desrt> morning eleni :)
[08:43] <hikiko> happy tuesday! :p
[08:43] <desrt> same :)
[08:44] <hikiko> thanks
[08:44] <desrt> whatcha working on this morning?
[08:45] <hikiko> backing up my computer... it seems that chromium is > 90GB when I build it
[08:45] <hikiko> and my ssd is 110
[08:45] <hikiko> so... I've ordered a new one but amazon will send it in 10 march :p (delivery in GR is super fast)
[08:45] <hikiko> apparently :p
[08:46] <desrt> lol.
[08:46] <desrt> use a ramdisk!
[08:46] <hikiko> so... I am trying to free space elsewhere to use the hd (super slow I suppose) until march :p
[08:46] <hikiko> ramdisk?
[08:47] <desrt> ya... then it doesn't matter how big your SSD is
[08:47] <desrt> :X
[08:47] <hikiko> is this safe?
[08:47] <desrt> ...
[08:48] <hikiko> I won't have other problems like the os running out of mem?
[08:48]  * desrt gives a look to hikiko, trying to figure out if she's being serious
[08:48] <hikiko> lol
[08:48] <desrt> what... like, you don't have 256GB of RAM?
[08:48] <desrt> ;)
[08:49]  * desrt got her laptop refresh recently and is eyeing one of the brand new X1s...
[08:49] <desrt> i'm actually considering taking the 1TB SSD option
[08:49] <desrt> because i'm crazy
[08:49] <desrt> but also because of things like this
[08:49] <hikiko> I bought a 512 ssd now
[08:50] <hikiko> I was thinking to use the hd until it arrives
[08:50] <desrt> it's a $200 upgrade.  i might take that and get the slightly-slower-but-still-i7-with-4MB-cache CPU option (which is $200 less)
[08:50] <hikiko> do you need 1TB?
[08:51] <desrt> no.
[08:51] <desrt> but i could definitely use it
[08:51] <desrt> like, being able to carry my music collection around with me... that's kinda nice.
[08:54] <davmor2> Morning all from London
[08:54] <desrt> davmor2: good morning
[08:54] <davmor2> 4 and 1/2 hours in already :D
[08:55] <davmor2> Laney: prepare for the pain today I will mostly be breaking zesty \o/
[08:58] <hikiko> well something extremely weird happens
[08:59] <hikiko> I name the directory with the chromium code canonical
[08:59] <hikiko> and there's an automatically generated directory
[08:59] <hikiko> vm
[09:00] <hikiko> with windows 8.1 and those files:
[09:00] <hikiko>  mir_tests/  UnitySetup-4.5.5.exe                |
[09:00] <hikiko>           VS2013_RTM_PRO_ENU/
[09:01] <hikiko> I have windows in another partition
[09:02] <Laney> eee
[09:02] <Laney> by gum
[09:02] <desrt> laney!
[09:02] <desrt> hi :)
[09:05] <hikiko> http://pastebin.com/uZEjLK9T
[09:05] <Laney> ahoy desrt
[09:05] <hikiko> does this tree makes sense to anyone of you?
[09:05] <Laney> how's it going?
[09:05] <desrt> goodish
[09:06] <willcooke> morning all
[09:06] <desrt> hi willcooke :)
[09:06] <hikiko> hi all
[09:07] <willcooke> I got pooped on by a pigeon
[09:07] <desrt> i hear that's good luck
[09:07] <seb128> hey desrt hikiko Laney willcooke
[09:07] <desrt> omg it's seb
[09:07] <willcooke> desrt, ha!  I'll buy a lottery ticket
[09:07] <Laney> bleddy pigeons
[09:07] <Laney> hi seb128!
[09:07] <desrt> willcooke: i think the "it's lucky" thing is just a way to make people feel marginally better about having just been shit on
[09:07] <Laney> how are you
[09:07] <desrt> :)
[09:08] <Laney> you know
[09:08] <Laney> for being on "oldstable" I sure get a lot of updates
[09:08] <Laney> almost one a day
[09:09] <seb128> Laney, I'm good, had tennis yesterday that was fun! how are you?
[09:10] <Laney> GREAT!
[09:10] <Laney> blue skies, tea, #ubuntu-desktop
[09:12] <desrt> good morning, seb :)
[09:13]  * davmor2 hugs Laney as it will be the last time I'm nice to him today ;)
[09:17] <seb128> hey desrt :-)
[09:17] <seb128> yeah, blue sky here
[09:17] <seb128> but weather forecast is annoying
[09:17] <desrt> solid grey here, but sun coming through nicely
[09:17] <seb128> it's like nice and blue sky until 6pm and then rain
[09:17] <seb128> and I'm supposed to play a tennis match at 7:30pm
[09:17] <desrt> it's supposed to rain right around then
[09:17] <seb128> it's frustrating, going to sit at the computer watching the nice weather for the day and then when I can go out it's going to rain and I might not be able to play
[09:18] <desrt> ya......
[09:19] <desrt> we should work in the evening when it's dark
[09:19] <desrt> so we can enjoy being outside in the sun :)
[09:22] <seb128> we can!
[09:22] <seb128> but the other people I play tennis with have a normal job and can only play in the evening
[09:23] <seb128> those boring people!
[09:25] <Laney> they need to be shown https://www.canonical.com/careers/all-vacancies
[09:27] <seb128> yeah!
[09:28] <didrocks> hey hey guys!
[09:28] <didrocks> willcooke: don't insult pigeons, this is what happens :)
[09:29] <willcooke> *grumble* *grumble*  Flying rats *grumble*
[09:30] <didrocks> ahah, I learnt the term "flying rats" thanks to GTA IV
[09:30] <didrocks> (you had to shot 100 of them spread across the city)
[09:30] <flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers
[09:31] <didrocks> hey flexiondotorg
[09:31] <flexiondotorg> didrocks o/
[09:33] <willcooke> morning flexiondotorg
[09:33] <flexiondotorg> Hi
[11:25] <davmor2> willcooke: that's okay Lara Croft loves killing those get here round ;)
[11:32] <jbicha> good morning
[12:00] <davmor2> Laney: what is the project for the dash in unity7 please
[12:01] <Trevinho> davmor2: dash is inside unity itself...
[12:01] <davmor2> Trevinho: yeah as in the thing you get when you hit the ubuntu button
[12:01] <Trevinho> davmor2: you want the backend?
[12:02] <davmor2> Trevinho: the main dash isn't showing the 5 default apps that it normally shows on first start so I want to report that
[12:03] <Trevinho> davmor2: it should be in unity-lens-applications
[12:03] <davmor2> Trevinho: thanks
[12:34] <seb128> davmor2, hey, please reports bugs with ubuntu-bug or at least attach minimal info like the syslog
[12:38] <mdeslaur> Trevinho: looks like we got another lock screen issue :( bug 1666359
[12:40] <seb128> mdeslaur, only when using a non standard option which is already something!
[12:40] <mdeslaur> yeah, it's not a big deal
[12:40] <mdeslaur> and probably an easy fix
[12:42] <Laney> I see part of the greeter's background with that option, not my desktop
[12:43] <Laney> ok, and some of the panel too
[12:44] <davmor2> seb128: sure will do too used to phone and not having ubuntu-bug :)
[12:44] <seb128> davmor2, thanks
[12:45] <seb128> Laney, it might depends of what is in the video buffer or such? like when nautilus doesn't handle the bg and you get random img + corruption depending of what was on screen before
[12:46] <Laney> It looks to me like it's failing to scale the background in that case
[12:47] <seb128> right, but then you should see what was on screen before if nothing is rendered there?
[12:49] <Laney> right, but I see my real wallpaper always
[12:49] <Laney> if I play a video, if I change to a vt, if I put icons on the desktop
[12:50] <Laney> it's always the same
[12:50] <Laney> a square of the greeter's background and the rest my real wallpaper
[12:57] <davmor2> seb128: used apport-collect let me know if there is anything else you need
[13:04] <Laney> bah sbuild got slow
[13:17] <davmor2> Laney: It hates you?
[13:18] <Laney> part of the majority then
[13:18] <Laney> :(((((((((((
[13:18] <davmor2> Laney: I still love you you fix my bugs :D
[13:40] <Trevinho> mdeslaur: oh, well I think also it needs nother option to be unset
[13:40] <Trevinho> mdeslaur: let me check
[13:45] <Laney> Trevinho: I think you just need to not divide by the scale in gdk_pixbuf_new_from_file_at_scale
[13:45] <Trevinho> Laney: yep, as the usual
[13:46] <Laney> https://paste.ubuntu.com/24040290/
[13:48] <Trevinho> Laney: about to do that, in fact
[13:48] <Trevinho> Laney: although, it might not be right for scaling != 2
[13:48] <Trevinho> so let me check
[13:50] <Laney> how?
[13:51] <Laney> anyways, just built it, it works for me
[13:51] <Laney> so feel free to take it from here :-)
[13:54] <Trevinho> Laney: sure that it works for scaling 2.0, but need to check for different values... I also had that ready too, but I think we should instead use  more checks
[13:54] <Trevinho> Laney: let me try something in a sec
[13:54] <Laney> mmk
[13:55] <Laney> there must be something special for other values that I don't know
[15:29] <qengho> Aiee!
[15:29] <hikiko> hi
[15:29] <willcooke> hi!
[15:29] <willcooke> hikiko, did you fix it?
[15:29] <hikiko> no
[15:30] <willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Weekly Meeting 2017-02-21
[15:30] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Feb 21 15:30:18 2017 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:30] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:30] <willcooke> I've got to go to a meeting in 30 mins, so would like to power through
[15:30] <willcooke> hikiko, bad luck :(
[15:30] <hikiko> willcooke: I did something unbelievable and I am reinstalling ubuntu :p fortunately I have home etc in another partition so it wont take long to have a working desktop
[15:31] <willcooke> Roll Call: andyrock (hols), attente, desrt,  dgadomski, fjkong, flexiondotorg, happyaron (out), hikiko(out), laney, qengho, seb128, sweet5hark, themuso (out), tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
[15:31] <flexiondotorg> o/
[15:31]  * Sweet5hark is here with short report locked and loaded.
[15:31]  * qengho appreciates the order.
[15:32] <desrt> hihi
[15:32] <hikiko> i ran chown -R eleni:eleni on the OS device instead of my data device because I added an extra hd and the /dev/sd* names changed and I had it in fstab and totally forgot to check what is automounted
[15:32] <willcooke> righty, let's kick off
[15:33] <hikiko> so I had to reinstall the os and then I remembered that apt has some options to fix the permissions
[15:33] <willcooke> #topic andyrock
[15:33] <willcooke> I mostly worked on CR+mir. I wrote most of the needed classes but chromium still fails to render on mir. I m debugging the issue but by the end of the week I hope to have something more.
[15:33] <willcooke> #topic attente
[15:33] <attente> hi
[15:33] <willcooke> Sorry for disturbing your holiday yesterday attente  :)
[15:33] <attente> short week, holiday yesterday
[15:33] <attente> no worries :)
[15:33] <attente> apparmor dconf patch testing and discussion
[15:33] <attente> working on a branch that adds apparmor support to desrt's dconf proxy, need to figure out how to test that properly...
[15:33] <attente> (eof)
[15:34] <willcooke> thanks attente
[15:34] <willcooke> #topic desrt
[15:34] <desrt> hey
[15:34] <desrt> went over the apparmor work from attente last week
[15:34] <desrt> had a meeting on it, it looks good
[15:34] <desrt> but still working on the changes to make the proxy respond to notifications about changes in security policy, so probably will need to refactor that somewhat
[15:34] <desrt> attente: let's meet again today, if you have some time
[15:34] <desrt> eof.
[15:34] <willcooke> cool, thanks desrt
[15:34] <attente> desrt: sure
[15:34] <willcooke> #topic dgadomski
[15:35] <dgadomski> hey
[15:35] <dgadomski> * verified bug #1550983
[15:35] <dgadomski> * reported and fixed bug #1665018
[15:35] <dgadomski> eof
[15:35] <davmor2> seb128: crap it's worse than I thought it shows no apps at all in the apps scope only dash plugins, Let me do a standard install and see if that is the same
[15:35] <willcooke> thanks dgadomski
[15:35] <dgadomski> thanks
[15:35] <willcooke> #topic FJKong
[15:35] <FJKong>  hey
[15:35] <FJKong> bugs:
[15:35] <FJKong> #1666430 merge open-vm-tools 10.1.0 from Debian unstable
[15:35] <FJKong> #1666265 Screen will flash after press space bar when using sogou Input method
[15:35] <FJKong> #1653852 Cannot activate Chinese input method for Qt app even in the devmode Edit
[15:35] <FJKong> eof
[15:36] <willcooke> thanks FJKong
[15:36] <willcooke> #topic flexiondotorg
[15:36] <flexiondotorg> Time appropriate greetings!
[15:36] <flexiondotorg> - ISO testing for Ubuntu and Ubuntu MATE 16.04.2.
[15:36] <flexiondotorg> - Assisted Ubuntu Kylin with their fork of MATE called UKUI.
[15:36] <flexiondotorg>    - Reduced forks from 20 to 7.
[15:36] <flexiondotorg>    - They are waiting on sponsorship for uploads if anyone can help them with that.
[15:36] <flexiondotorg> - Debugging Indicator icons in snaps. Hugh thanks to _Trevinho!
[15:36] <flexiondotorg> Huge Thanks, even.
[15:36] <flexiondotorg> - Visit to ScreenCloud
[15:36] <flexiondotorg> - Adding popularity/relevancy metrics to a sheet of ~400 Electron apps
[15:37] <flexiondotorg>    - Contacting the most popular Electron projects/products to start them on their snap journey.
[15:37] <flexiondotorg> - Fix in progress for desktop helpers so snapped applications can create/remove auto-start entries.
[15:37] <flexiondotorg> - Working with upstream electron-builder to add more complete snap support so we can target more projects.
[15:37] <flexiondotorg> - Working on VMWare snaps, they requested help.
[15:37] <flexiondotorg> 🎬
[15:37] <willcooke> awesome, thanks flexiondotorg
[15:37] <flexiondotorg> I'd like to here about Cr backend for Mir.
[15:38] <willcooke> flexiondotorg, hook up with andyrock when he's back on Friday
[15:38] <willcooke> also, you might want the "_" in the middle of the string somewhere rather than at the start to avoid pings
[15:38] <flexiondotorg> Ah, OK.
[15:38] <willcooke> #topic happyaron
[15:38] <willcooke> 1. {spl,zfs}-linux are updated for Linux 4.9, and in sync with Debian now
[15:38] <willcooke> 2. network-manager 1.4.4 to zesty
[15:38] <willcooke> 3. network-manager/applet SRU verification work
[15:38] <willcooke> 4. fcitx SRU verification
[15:38] <willcooke> 5. help FJ with package merging stuff
[15:38] <willcooke> 5. working on more automated zfs testing stuff atm
[15:38] <willcooke> #topic hikiko
[15:39] <hikiko> willcooke: if you have my bullets handy could you paste them?
[15:39] <hikiko> sorry
[15:40] <willcooke> hikiko, sure
[15:40] <qengho> hikiko: Best to re-install. I don't think dpkg could help that much.
[15:40] <hikiko> thank you
[15:40] <willcooke> * problems in chromium-mir prerequisites:p
[15:40] <willcooke>   - updated from X to Z in my desktop to build chrome there, in the fast ssd (miral-shell runs on Z). Ended up doing a fresh OS installation due to several tl;dr packages, systemd and pebcak problems
[15:40] <willcooke>   - solved new problems in the fresh installation:
[15:40] <willcooke>     |--chromium needs more than 80GB space => the ssd where I build it doesn't have enough space for the OS and the chromium together
[15:40] <willcooke>       => had to free space in the hd and find the args that can accelerate the chromium build until I have the new ssd
[15:40] <willcooke>     |--workaround why the latest intel driver refused to see my hdmi monitor
[15:40] <willcooke>     |--replaced xserver with an older version (X,Y,Z have upgraded the xserver to a version that crashes when 2 wm ask for 2 displays => cannot use it for u7 development)
[15:40] <willcooke> * chromium-development:
[15:40] <willcooke>   - learned the git basics
[15:40] <willcooke>   - fixed compile errors in chromium 3rd party libraries/examples/tests
[15:40] <willcooke>   - fixed 3rd party BUILD.gn files that expect the compiler to be clang and define stuff for clang only (I compile with gcc because clang experienced internal errors when something eg .h file was missing)
[15:40] <willcooke>   - I am currently working on SurfaceFactory, trying to continue andreas work, but I still haven't done/tested much because I fix other problems here and there (hopefully at the meeting time I've finished the compile of the other branches and I'll be able to test mine with them).
[15:40] <willcooke> * lowgfx:
[15:40] <willcooke>   - currently working on that since everything else on my desktop is compiling and compiling and compiling... hopefully, I'll have pushed the final branches of that too before the time of the meeting today...
[15:40] <willcooke> EOF
[15:40] <willcooke> #topic Laney
[15:40] <Laney> • Noticed that unity8 dropped off the zesty dailies - fixed that (by cowboying a MP that was already in progress, thanks S_aviq) & uploaded to xenial overlay per request
[15:40] <Laney> • Some reviews / feedback for FJK
[15:40] <qengho> I have patches that make g++ work, hikiko .
[15:40] <Laney> ∘ pinged about the gnome-calculator sru to yakkety
[15:40] <Laney> • Debian: gdk-pixbuf -> unstable
[15:40] <Laney> • autopkgtest:
[15:40] <Laney> ∘ Some package fixes
[15:41] <Laney> ∘ infra fix for detecting a new type of systemd failure seen on the upstream tests (thanks p_itti)
[15:41] <Laney> ∘ tried to get a discussion going upstream about how to handle the Testsuite-Restrictions stuff. Ian Jackson very kindly got my previous work in dpkg reverted
[15:41] <Laney> ∘ some background investigations into kernel panic handling, need to figure out how to wire the console log back into autopkgtest so that it can be analysed for failure, working on that
[15:41] <Laney> • release:
[15:41] <Laney> ∘ some FFe reviews and discussions
[15:41] <Laney> ∘ being alpha 2 runner: some ISO tracker wrangling, some nusakan wrangling, some proposed-migration wrangling. should be over to the flavours now until thursday
[15:41] <Laney> • Look at fwupd for bug #1663548, submitted a PR to libsmbios for use-after-free fixes - need to test the proposed workaround in fwupd now
[15:41] <Laney> 🏋️
[15:41] <willcooke> :) thanks Laney
[15:41] <willcooke> #topic qengho
[15:41] <qengho> * Gave Cr 56 to #security for X, Y, Z upload.
[15:41] <qengho> * Still working on earlier distros' symbols/linking problem for Cr. Discovered "c++filt"!
[15:41] <qengho> * Apparmor profile updates for Cr.
[15:41] <qengho> * One (1) National holiday.
[15:41] <qengho> EOF
[15:41] <willcooke> thanks qengho
[15:41] <willcooke> #topic seb128
[15:41] <Laney> s/alpha 2/beta 1/
[15:41] <Laney> !!!!!!!
[15:42] <Laney> carry on
[15:42] <seb128> • worked some more on restoring the langpack builder service (the wrong key was being used still for ppa uploads), should be good for next export
[15:42] <seb128> • some sponsoring and archive admin work
[15:42] <seb128> • discussions/tweaks with did_rocks and Tre_vinho to the snap desktop common launcher to follow the runtime rename
[15:42] <seb128> • reviewed another iteration of the geonames changes from albert

[15:42] <willcooke> thanks seb128
[15:42] <willcooke> #topic Sweet5hark
[15:42] <Sweet5hark> - precise backporting (finally)
[15:42] <Sweet5hark> - much Munich PR support and aftermath: :/ but it was effective (and informative)
[15:42] <Sweet5hark> - 5.3.0~rc3-0ubuntu3: fix autopkgtests for real
[15:42] <Sweet5hark> EOF
[15:42] <willcooke> BOOM!
[15:42] <willcooke> thanks Sweet5hark
[15:42] <willcooke> #topic TheMuso
[15:42] <willcooke> * Merged alsa-utils and uploaded. Only bug fixes, but it was before feature freeze, so ALSA userspace 1.1.3 is what we have for zesty.
[15:42] <willcooke> * Started looking at porting a suggested patch that Konrad pointed out for pulseaudio in xenial to help improve bluetooth matters there.
[15:42] <willcooke> * More testing of an upstream patch to reduce if not elimate at-spi crashing under certain circumstances with Orca.
[15:42] <willcooke> * Started making a list of things that I think should be addressed for 18.04.
[15:42] <willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
[15:42] <willcooke> welcome back tkamppeter :)
[15:42] <tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Released 1.13.4 with reliability fixes for the PPD generator for driverless printing.
[15:42] <tkamppeter> - Google Summer of Code 2017: Another video call interview with a student candidate.
[15:42] <tkamppeter> - OpenPri nting Summit 2017: Started organizational stuff.
[15:42] <tkamppeter> - Caught up on e-mail.
[15:42] <tkamppeter> - Bugs.
[15:43] <willcooke> thanks
[15:43] <willcooke> #topic Trevinho
[15:43] <Trevinho> · Attended Open Design Conference in Italy doing a Talk and Workshop about snap
[15:43] <Trevinho> · Fixed indicator in vlc snap
[15:43] <Trevinho> · Pull request on next-cloud client to build a snap (snapcraft.yaml included)
[15:43] <Trevinho> · Fixed snapd-xdg-open to compile and work in trusty
[15:43] <Trevinho> · Added screensaver methods to screen-inihibit control snap policy
[15:43] <Trevinho> · Fixed unity7 snap policy to support custom indicator icon themes properly
[15:43] <Trevinho> · Gnome platform part changes in desktop-helpers
[15:43] <Trevinho> · SRU for sni-qt, appmenu-qt5, libappindicator to Xenial (indicator support in SNAP)
[15:43] <Trevinho> · workaround for electron apps indicator support in snaps
[15:43] <Trevinho> · Fixed XDG_RUNTIME_DIR usage in libappindicator for indicator dir
[15:43] <Trevinho> · Fixed Ctrl+<KEY> when capslock is on in unity text entries (nux)
[15:43] <Trevinho> · Fixed libappindicator issue causing dbus noise
[15:43] <Trevinho>  EOF
[15:43] <willcooke> thanks Trevinho
[15:43] <willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
[15:44] <willcooke> - snap:// URL support SRUs
[15:44] <willcooke> - snapd-glib assertion support
[15:44] <willcooke> - LightDM user switching bug work (LP: #1656399)
[15:44] <willcooke> - LightDM snap work.
[15:44] <willcooke> #topic AOB
[15:44] <willcooke> Great week I think, thanks everyone.
[15:44] <desrt> bye bye.
[15:44] <jbicha> GNOME 3.24 (3.23.90) is in zesty with just a few exceptions. I want to discuss updating nautilus (LP: #1635988) and gnome-terminal (LP: #1666264)
[15:44] <jbicha> so for nautilus, the main blocker is the interactive_search.patch which didn't work right after I tried to rebase it
[15:44] <jbicha> seb128: csoriano said you were thinking about just letting the patch be dropped?
[15:45] <willcooke> jbicha, now seems like a great time to do that.  Do you mind if I close the meeting now and then carry on with the conversation?
[15:45] <FJKong> Laney: I fonud the reason, I choose old version to diff, so I re-upload diff, sorry
[15:45] <willcooke> otherwise I will forget and the logs will be sad
[15:45] <Laney> FJKong: cool, np
[15:45] <jbicha> willcooke: sure, it can be post-meeting
[15:45] <willcooke> thanks
[15:45] <willcooke> #endmeeting
[15:45] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Feb 21 15:45:36 2017 UTC.
[15:45] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2017/ubuntu-desktop.2017-02-21-15.30.moin.txt
[15:45] <willcooke> thanks all
[15:45] <didrocks> (thanks ;))
[15:46] <FJKong> Laney: I will merge other package under your name and ping you
[15:46] <FJKong> is that ok?
[15:47] <hikiko> qengho: already did :)
[15:47] <davmor2> seb128, Laney: so todays image on kvm is showing no applications in the apps scope only dash plugins, on oem, normal install and live cd
[15:47] <Laney> FJKong: ok, but subscribe ubuntu-sponsors too
[15:47] <Laney> FJKong: pick ones which bring important fixes first please
[15:47] <FJKong> Laney: sure
[15:47] <hikiko> upgrading to Z and done, chromium build survived :D
[15:48] <Laney> davmor2: you want Trevinho or andyrock for that probably
[15:49] <Trevinho> davmor2: apps are dead... It's the WEB now! :-P
[15:49] <seb128> jbicha, I said that earlier in the cycle was maybe a good time to drop it and see what's the user feedback, but that was a while ago, now seems a bit late for this cycle...
[15:49] <seb128> davmor2, is unity-lens-applications installed?
[15:49] <davmor2> Trevinho: ha :D
[15:49] <jbicha> seb128: if I knew you were interested in dropping the patch, I would have done it months ago!
[15:50] <jbicha> seb128: I don't recall you saying that, you at least didn't mention it on the bug
[15:50] <seb128> jbicha, I'm not "interested", but if it can't be ported ...
[15:51] <jbicha> the last I remember was that maybe Laney was going to look at it some time if he had time, but I think he's been pretty busy with a lot of other things
[15:51] <davmor2> seb128: dpkg -l | grep unity-lens-applications say ii as first letters so yes
[15:52] <seb128> davmor2, if you reported a bug with ubuntu-bug from a fresh boot having the issue the log might help
[15:53] <seb128> well I guess first step is to see if others get the issue on the daily
[15:53] <seb128> I don't have an iso download handy but maybe Laney or Trevinho do
[15:53] <Trevinho> I don't
[15:55] <jbicha> seb128: I'm not happy with being told it's too late now, when I did the nautilus work in October
[15:56] <seb128> jbicha, too late for what?
[15:56] <seb128> jbicha, and the work was not done otherwise you could have uploaded...
[15:56] <jbicha> similarly, I'm frustrated with how the gnome-terminal MIR bug has been handled so far, also started in October
[15:56] <seb128> we are talking about trading feature regression with new version
[15:56] <seb128> which is a loose-loose situation
[15:56] <jbicha> seb128: Nautilus 3.22 (now 3.23.90) is done except for the interactive_search patch and an update to the header-bar patch
[15:57] <seb128> right
[15:57] <seb128> well if those had been done you could have uploaded
[15:57] <seb128> so don't say it's others blocking it
[15:57] <seb128> it's work not done blocking
[15:57] <jbicha> but you're saying the interactive_search patch could have been ignored if I had uploaded in November??
[15:57] <davmor2> seb128: nuclearbob is refreshing his image and will try
[15:58] <seb128> well I told upstream that maybe we should try to drop it at a start of cycle and see what's the feedback
[15:58] <seb128> davmor2, thanks
[15:58] <jbicha> seb128: I don't think you told me that :(
[15:58] <seb128> jbicha, I didn't put much consideration in it
[15:58] <seb128> right
[15:58] <seb128> that's not a statement for Ubuntu
[15:58] <seb128> it's my own opinion
[15:58] <jbicha> lol
[15:58] <seb128> I'm not doing much GNOME work nowadays
[15:58] <seb128> I'm still on xenial for what is worth
[15:58] <seb128> I've no idea what current nautilus looks like
[15:59] <seb128> Laney or you maintain those bits and should decide about it
[15:59] <Laney> I don't really want to be totally responsible for all decisions
[15:59] <Laney> that's quite a stressful position
[16:00] <seb128> we need to sit down and discuss how we deal with decisions taking then
[16:01] <Laney> I don't mind having an opinion
[16:01] <ricotz> jbicha, drop it :), I am hit by this nautilus crash at least once a day if I forget to work around it
[16:01] <Laney> but being the only person making calls is not nice
[16:02] <Laney> even more so if that call is declining something
[16:04] <seb128> ricotz, that issue is not in the Ubuntu version is it?
[16:05] <ricotz> seb128, no, this is the issue caused by the faulty-search patch with newer nautilus
[16:05] <seb128> Laney, right, well we need to define who we trust and who wants to participate in those calls
[16:05] <seb128> ricotz, newer being?
[16:06] <seb128> ricotz, did we land one of those versions in the archive is that ppa work?
[16:06] <ricotz> seb128, iirc 3.22+ , just ppa
[16:06] <seb128> ricotz, k, not Ubuntu then, what I said ;-)
[16:06] <ricotz> still the reason which holds back the upgrade ;)
[16:08] <seb128> right, better than we hold than land a crashing version right? ;-)
[16:08] <jbicha> honestly, if I had uploaded nautilus 3.22 back in November without the interactive_search patch, I don't anyone would have bothered working on it this cycle so what difference would it make to do it now?
[16:09] <seb128> is that a rational of why we can't land regressions?
[16:09] <seb128> on*
[16:09] <seb128> can*
[16:10] <seb128> "nobody has slots to fix regressions so it's fine to land a regressions" doesn't seem a convincing line to me
[16:10] <jbicha> well, if it's ok to (reluctantly) drop the patch at the beginning of a cycle...
[16:11] <seb128> I didn't say it's ok
[16:11] <seb128> I said it's a tradeoff decision and we ask ourself the question
[16:11] <seb128> +can
[16:14] <jbicha> I understand that type-ahead search is popular for some people, but I think the new nautilus would be even more popular for those using non-LTS releases
[16:14] <seb128> until we hit the LTS and the regression is still there
[16:14] <seb128> then?
[16:15] <jbicha> then it doesn't matter when we made the change in 17.04 or 17.10
[16:15] <seb128> right
[16:15] <seb128> it matters is we never landed a regression though
[16:15] <seb128> so we don't have the regression in the LTS
[16:19] <jbicha> the risk is that Ubuntu gets criticized for not changing enough too
[16:19] <seb128> same old topic yes
[16:19] <seb128> balance between stability and uptodateness
[16:21] <ogra_> just switch to emelfm ... they will surely see the change then :)
[16:21] <jbicha> so in April 2018, GNOME 3.28 will have just been released and it's not that great to have nautilus 3.20 still
[16:21] <ogra_> (it is also super fast ... gtk1.2 and such .,..)
[16:22] <seb128> jbicha, or maybe it is and our users prefer the old style filemanager UI to the new one, also we sort of had that for xenial already, nautilus was quite outdated and that didn't went as a down argument in reviews etc
[16:23] <jbicha> uh,  caja, anyone?
[16:23] <seb128> what is that?
[16:23] <seb128> one of the forks of nautilus I guess but dunno which one
[16:23] <jbicha> that's Nautilus 2.* maintained by MATE but now ported to GTK3 so it's not completely obsolete
[16:23] <ogra_> mates filemanager
[16:24] <seb128> we had discussions about that in the past
[16:24] <seb128> but we don't know how stable/bug free those are
[16:24] <jbicha> Ubuntu's old nautilus *is* criticized in reviews
[16:24] <seb128> nor ideas on how much manpower there is behind and how well they are going to be maintained
[16:24] <seb128> what about it?
[16:24]  * ogra_ still thinks emelfm is way more rustic-style ... just give up your reluctance !
[16:25] <jbicha> I believe caja's stable, it just looks more like lucid than xenial
[16:25] <seb128> ogra_, stop the trolling
[16:25] <ogra_> :)
[16:26] <seb128> jbicha, it's probably less work to update those patches than change codebase
[16:29] <jbicha> I guess I got a +0 from l_aney on my proposal to update gnome-terminal for zesty ( bug 1666264 ) so I'll try to find another release team member for that
[16:29] <seb128> no opinion about that one
[16:29] <jbicha> yay, another +0 :)
[16:30] <seb128> I'm not release team member anyway
[16:30] <seb128> no opinion about nautilus either really, I didn't look at 3.20 or newer
[16:30] <seb128> I'm just against regression features without having a discussions on the pro/con before
[16:30] <jbicha> seb128: do you ever use VirtualBox or something?
[16:30] <seb128> I do
[16:31] <seb128> but I've been too busy to keep up with current Ubuntu recently
[16:31] <jbicha> because you could totally try out Unity (or Ubuntu GNOME) 17.04 and add the GNOME3 Staging PPA to see what the new nautilus looks like
[16:31] <jbicha> since xenial's on 3.14, there's been changes already
[16:32] <seb128> right I know
[16:32] <seb128> I'm just too busy to do that
[16:32] <seb128> which is why I stepped out and I asked you to see with Laney
[16:33] <seb128> but we never re-defined who/what group is taking decisions here it seems
[16:33] <seb128> we should do that
[16:33] <jbicha> can we just clone Laney so he can get more done? :)
[16:33] <seb128> :-)
[16:35] <Laney> It's hard to maintain quality with such a limited number of people
[16:35] <Laney> It was probably a mistake to take the patch in the first place
[16:35] <Laney> But now we are here
[16:36] <Laney> Although at the time there was a lot of pressure/noise aroudn it
[16:36] <Laney> can you tell me what the actual problem is?
[16:36] <jbicha> well now's a better time to see if that pressure is still around than waiting for feedback on 17.10
[16:37] <Laney> yes yes I understand your arguments, no need to repeat them
[16:39] <jbicha> ricotz talked to csoriano months ago who said
[16:39] <jbicha> I would be cautious with whatever the patches in ubuntu are do to the slot and the views. The logic really changed considerabily, and fixed a bunch of crashes in corner cases. If that patch has the worng logic, it will add a tremendous amount of cases for crashing
[16:40] <jbicha> end quote
[16:40] <jbicha> 3.22 was also disruptive because it changed the coding style so all our patches had to be completely rebased
[16:49] <jbicha> I don't think I experienced the crash r_icotz did, definitely not every day
[16:50] <seb128> the upstream comment suggests that if we land the new version we should probably get the typeahead patch redone properly or dropped from the source to avoid segfault
[16:51] <jbicha> but there was a second problem where the first character typed was dropped so that also shows I did something wrong when rebasing
[16:53] <jbicha> Nautilus Preferences has an option for "Search in subfolders: Always/Never/Just on this computer" which although it works differently than classic type-ahead might address one
[16:53] <jbicha> of the concerns with the newer nautilus behavior
[17:01] <Laney> maybe
[17:04] <Laney> One thing for me is that feature freeze is the time to stop adding features / potential bugs. If we were so concerned about the version being old then there have been 4 months of zesty so far...
[17:04] <Laney> It's not like we couldn't have talked about this patch many times during that time
[17:05] <jbicha> I brought it up once, I'll have to be more persistent next time
[17:08] <jbicha> I feel like I'm also being nudged into just going ahead and landing stuff at the beginning of the release cycle
[17:09] <Laney> I don't see how you can get that from what seb128 said
[17:10] <Laney> Discussions are better when they're conducted without time pressure, where you have more time to revisit decisions if they turn out to be wrong
[17:11] <Laney> like: if we remove that patch now, and the world caves in, it'll suck for me having to fix it under pressure
[17:11] <Laney> If we remove it in October 2016 then I probably get to take a month or so
[17:15] <jbicha> ok, what about landing Nautilus 3.24 in Late April 2017 and then there's more time before release?
[17:16] <Laney> I'm probably okay with that
[17:16] <jbicha> ok
[17:16] <Laney> I guess I would like the chance to consider revisiting the patch, but I don't think it's reasonable for updates to block on me doing that forever
[17:17] <Laney> Maybe mail ubuntu-desktop or something
[17:17] <Laney> you could even do that now
[17:17] <Laney> heads up: this patch will go away unless someone steps up to fix it
[17:17] <jbicha> ok
[17:18] <Laney> I feel like a bit of a blocker today/lately, sorry about that
[17:18] <Laney> trying to produce the best product given all the constraints (time and people mainly)
[17:29] <Sweet5hark> hmm, lots of "mce: [Hardware Error]: Machine check events logged" in my dmesg
[18:03] <seb128> have a nice evening desktopers
[18:03] <Laney> night!
[18:44] <willcooke> night all
[19:40] <jdstrand> attente: hey, was wondering if you had something for me to play with wrt dconf patches and apparmor
[19:53] <attente> jdstrand: sorry, i haven't, but have you tried the test program and profile from https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/apparmor/2016-August/009892.html
[19:55] <jdstrand> attente: no, I haven't since I'm tasked with looking at this from a snapd perspective and so I wanted to see what dconf would actually do. I'll add that to my list I guess. are you still planning on doing this patch in the short term?
[19:59] <attente> jdstrand: it's blocked for the short term unfortunately...
[20:01] <attente> jdstrand: actually the test program/profile requires some minor changes since i tested against older patches
[20:02] <attente> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/zWKOTcO2/
[20:02] <attente> https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/TaraMv1H/
[20:04] <jdstrand> ok