[00:04] <pauljw> it is for her and other than rain it's a perfect spot.
[00:05] <pauljw> guess i'm gonna be standing watch and moving the babies as needed to keep them alive...  i'll take em out, she'll put em back... :(
[00:08] <daftykins> doh!
[00:08] <daftykins> i'd throw in a board that can be climbed up if possible :>
[00:10] <pauljw> they're only a week old with eyes still closed, don't know if they'd figure that out...
[00:10] <daftykins> ah i see
[00:10] <daftykins> unlike them... ;x
[00:50] <pauljw> heheh...
[00:51] <OerHeks> 3 more days, after 10 days the eyes will open, and then trouble starts as they start crawling :-D
[00:51] <daftykins> :D
[00:51] <daftykins> into _everything_!
[00:52] <pauljw> i just hope we can keep them safe till weened and then take them to the spca for adoption.  i don't trust folks in the area to do the right thing and get them fixed.
[00:53] <daftykins> indeed :S
[00:53] <OerHeks> kittens need to be 10 weeks with their mum, no?
[00:53] <daftykins> Guernsey used to be overrun with cats, but a very strict policy means there are actually waiting lists for kittens now, so i've heard
[00:54] <pauljw> yes, OerHeks 8 to 10 weeks
[00:54] <OerHeks> Dogs a little longer, 12-14 weeks tops.
[00:55] <OerHeks> By then the mum is glad they go, really :-D
[00:55] <pauljw> :)
[01:02] <OerHeks> "everytime I wake from suspend I cannot connect to wifi." ... impatience, 30 sec is a long time..
[01:03] <daftykins> that's pretty bad in fairness!
[01:04] <OerHeks> I thought i suffered that 'bug'too, but after 30 seconds .. bling!
[01:32] <OerHeks> 91 keys .. mamamia
[01:32] <nacc> ridiculous :)
[01:33] <daftykins> hmm?
[01:33] <OerHeks> and he is trolling, i don't believe he has 91 keys
 happyfr0gg: Ouch !! .. just how many keys do you have ' ls /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d | wc -l ' ? <happyfr0gg> Bashing-om,  91
[01:34] <OerHeks> i have only 2 ..
[01:35] <daftykins> oh that type of key :>
[01:36] <OerHeks> daftykins, talk to the ops, you miss all the fun
[01:36] <daftykins> ;) no thanks!
[01:37] <Bashing-om> OerHeks: well i have 7 .. and no idea how come so many .. maybe I best do and find .. but 91 .. 91 !
[01:38] <nacc> i think some are installed by default, e.g., the ubuntu key, the debian keys (maybe)
[01:38] <nacc> not 100%
[01:39] <OerHeks> i have 2 ( + normal repo keys)
[01:39] <daftykins> could it be a PPA fiend?
[01:44] <OerHeks> i guess he is trolling.. i haven't seen proof that he is using so much ppa's >> feb 24 03:22:48 <happyfr0gg>	OerHeks - http://pastebin.com/QMAF12A8
[01:45] <pauljw> that's a lot of ppa's
[01:46] <OerHeks> 45 tops
[01:47] <OerHeks> I need more beer if you want the exact number *hips*
[01:48] <pauljw> lol
[01:48] <OerHeks> oh Calvin, .. http://calvinhobbesdaily.tumblr.com/image/157653330354
[01:49] <daftykins> ls -al /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ | pastebinit
[01:49] <daftykins> :)
[01:50] <pauljw> :)
[01:50] <OerHeks> nacc, ppas are windows executables, let him win
[01:50] <nacc> OerHeks: lol, not enough beer indeed
[01:50] <daftykins> D:
[01:51] <daftykins> i sense IT sanity is being violated
[01:51] <pauljw> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24062260/
[01:52] <OerHeks> yay, 1 key \o/
[01:53] <OerHeks> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nassi_IM8nI
[03:22] <pauljw> well, gnite all.  eyes are getting heavy. :)
[05:04] <Bashing-om> !info deluge-gtk xenial
[05:08] <Bashing-om> OerHeks: How come this is not making any sense : http://pastebin.com/WyMFH6gc where we have deluge-gtk as a dependency, but ' apt-cache depends deluge-gtk ' says it breaks deluge and even more it replaces deluge ?? Where am I failing to understand ?
[05:08] <OerHeks> Bashing-om, beats me too, i gave up looking. ppa's and ppa's combo do funny things.
[05:09] <OerHeks> noobslab ppa, or webupd8 ?
[05:29] <OerHeks> Bashing-om, i learned my lesson these last 3 days, people with ppa-hell >> reinstall, bye, see you in 30 minutes !
[05:31] <Bashing-om> OerHeks: Agreed - is the easyist thing to do .. and then it is clean . But I got nothing better to do than to see what I can learn :)
[06:05] <pavlushka> on #System76 toothe> when is System76 going to release their 15" lappies again?
[06:47] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[06:57] <ducasse> hi all
[06:57] <ducasse> morning lotuspsychje
[06:58] <lotuspsychje> hey ducasse
[06:58] <ducasse> hi Bashing-om
[06:58] <lotuspsychje> cuppa tea here
[06:58] <lotuspsychje> and working day at 12H
[06:58] <ducasse> me too - tea is utterly necessary to get started :)
[06:59] <Bashing-om> Aye .. the passing of the watch :)
[07:04] <Bashing-om> ducasse: What is it with yalls powers - seems while yall have the morning tea the channel comes to a halt .
[07:05] <ducasse> Bashing-om: everyone else is having theirs as well? :)
[07:06] <Bashing-om> ducasse: Well a logical expanation :) else asleep ?
[07:06] <ducasse> it _is_ the weekend, so i'm guessing tooday will be slow
[07:06] <ducasse> *today
[07:07] <lotuspsychje> unless 17.04 beta users come flood us :p
[07:09] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/entroware-launches-ubuntu-powered-aether-laptop-with-intel-kaby-lake-cpus-513291.shtml
[07:09] <Bashing-om> from what I see, 17.04 even in beta is solid .
[07:09] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: did you test already?
[07:10] <lotuspsychje> !zesty
[07:12] <ducasse> lotuspsychje: zesty enters beta today?
[07:12] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: beta1 23feb
[07:12] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: 17.04 about 3 weeks past . Seems mir has some catchup to do . but unity and gome3 are good on AMD platform here .
[07:12] <lotuspsychje>  Current dev version: Zesty Zapus | Schedule: http://ubottu.com/y/zz
[07:13] <ducasse> bah - mir :-/ waste of effort, imo.
[07:13] <lotuspsychje> really wondering how still story will end
[07:13] <lotuspsychje> this
[07:14] <ducasse> my guess: wayland will eventually 'win'
[07:14] <ducasse> but x will be there for years yet
[07:15] <lotuspsychje> as for what i understand, canonical will leave the user to choose if the future will be X or mir
[07:15] <ducasse> yes, that's what i heard too. even if canonical wants mir they will be in trouble if devs only choose to support wayland.
[07:18] <ducasse> gnome supports wayland, as does kde, every other distro adopts wayland and ignores mir, intel refuses to add mir-only patches - it's really not looking good for mir.
[07:18] <lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/02/ubuntu-17-04-beta-1-download
[07:19] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: and still phones and snap are deep based on mir plans already reall curious how they will go further
[07:20] <ducasse> _that_ is an issue, in my view. i'd love to see ubuntu phones/tablets catch on...
[07:20] <ducasse> what do you mean snap is based on mir?
[07:20] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: no i mean phones are mir, and they want the snap system on unity
[07:20] <lotuspsychje> also for desktop
[07:21] <ducasse> ah - i started to wonder :)
[07:22] <lotuspsychje> my dream scenario would be that ubuntu touch makes a version to get installed on all phones
[07:22] <lotuspsychje> if nothing happens with manufacturers, users will take over themselfs
[07:23] <lotuspsychje> i think budgie and mate are also a good example of users taking over
[07:24] <ducasse> lotuspsychje: have you tested budgie?
[07:24] <lotuspsychje> not yet, but looks promising
[07:25] <ducasse> and of course we need another desktop environment - too few to choose from ;)
[07:26] <lotuspsychje> lol
[07:29] <ducasse> we're getting to the point where it would probably be better for users if the devs focused on making a smaller number of them better...
[07:30] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[07:31] <ducasse> lotuspsychje: so, are you working the entire weekend?
[07:32] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: sunday off :p but next week much work as its holiday
[07:32] <lotuspsychje> not sure how its called in english
[07:33] <lotuspsychje> crocus holiday lol
[07:33] <ducasse> me neither :) translated from norwegian it would just be 'winter holiday' :)
[07:36] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: what time is on your place?
[07:36] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: it be 01:36 .
[07:37] <lotuspsychje> serious overtime :p
[07:37] <lotuspsychje> 8h37 here
[07:38] <Bashing-om> 'bout to my jumping off place .
[07:39] <ducasse> Bashing-om: well, have a good night's sleep, might see you when you return :)
[07:39] <lotuspsychje> yeah jump back to irc when you finished :p
[07:40] <ducasse> i need to reboot because systemd is stupid :-(
[07:40] <lotuspsychje> lol
[07:41] <ducasse> more tea first! :)
[07:42] <ducasse> lotuspsychje: working all of next week or going away too?
[07:42] <lotuspsychje> working : (
[07:42] <lotuspsychje> alot of tourists at our city in holidays= more kitchen work
[07:43] <ducasse> at least that brings in money so you can go away later :)
[07:43] <lotuspsychje> lol
[07:44] <lotuspsychje> thats optimistic indeed
[07:44] <ducasse> :)
[07:47] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: they hired someone new in the kitchen, also hope that will give me a few days more
[07:49] <ducasse> it's good that they're not too reliant on you, at least, so you can have time off etc
[07:49] <lotuspsychje> well for now, they pretty reliant on me as i started when the business opened
[07:50] <lotuspsychje> ideal would be 20h/week
[07:52] <ducasse> how much are you working now?
[07:52] <lotuspsychje> 38+ : (
[07:52] <ducasse> so, full time..
[07:53] <lotuspsychje> yep
[07:53] <lotuspsychje> and summer havent started yet
[07:54] <lotuspsychje> oh well hoping on better times :p
[07:54] <lotuspsychje> dont wanna nag
[07:54] <ducasse> well, at least it brings in money, right?
[07:55] <lotuspsychje> yeah thats the bright part
[07:55] <lotuspsychje> and i also love doing kitchen work also
[07:56] <lotuspsychje> mcrt: welcome
[07:56] <lotuspsychje> mcrt: think drivers on a linux has been problematic from the start
[07:57] <lotuspsychje> mcrt: all we can hope is linux to get bigger and bigger and more support
[07:58] <lotuspsychje> mcrt: also newer hardware needs newer hardware support
[07:58] <lotuspsychje> *driver
[07:58] <Bashing-om> mcrt: If ya tunning a later released card , in good shape ; else AMD and our community still working on a good driver .
[07:58] <Bashing-om> running*
[07:59] <mcrt> right. im dont actually have an amd card, just curious about the issue
[08:00] <Bashing-om> mcrt: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2340914#post13561269 ; https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2317199#post13540589 .
[08:00] <ducasse> mcrt: the thing about amd drivers is that amdgpu is very new, it hasn't had time to mature yet. they probably dropped fglrx too early, but i guess they couldn't have that many people working on linux drivers.
[08:00] <mcrt> seems like there are patches to make fglrx compile on newer kernels too
[08:02] <ducasse> mcrt: you also need old x.org
[08:03] <lotuspsychje> alkisg: welcome to the club :p
[08:03] <alkisg> Hello!
[08:03] <alkisg> Not sure which topics would go here though...
[08:03] <alkisg> I know about #ubuntu-devel, #ubuntu-motu etc etc...
[08:03] <lotuspsychje> alkisg: we discussing all new stuff happening to ubuntu
[08:04] <lotuspsychje> alkisg: to be a better support in main
[08:04] <alkisg> OK, I'll lurk here to see... :)
[08:04] <lotuspsychje> great!
[08:04] <lotuspsychje> brb scrambled eggs are waiting for me
[08:07] <mcrt> ducasse: gotcha. im pretty much stuck on xorg-1.9 myself
[08:08] <mcrt> funnily enough this is a laptop that was sold with linux.
[08:10] <ducasse> in all fairness, older cards with the radeon driver are usually very stable, as opposed to nvidia + nouveau.
[08:10] <mcrt> gpu chip on this is intel
[08:10] <mcrt> well, actually powervr
[08:12] <mcrt> but yeah, the machine was originally sold with ubuntu preinstalled...
[08:13] <mcrt> these days even unity fails to run. it's a 7 year old machine though, but still... so much for LTS
[08:18] <ducasse> mcrt: i'm sure you can get help with that in #ubuntu, alternatively just switch to a lighter desktop
[08:21] <Bashing-om> OH Kay ,, here is muy back side , catch up on the flop :)
[08:21] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: nite nite
[08:22] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: Laters .
[08:22] <mcrt> ducasse: thanks, it works fine for me. but it is still a sad story
[08:22] <mcrt> ducasse: only thing you can gather from it is that binary drivers are not a very good option for the long haul
[08:23] <lotuspsychje> mcrt: the #gamingonlinux community seems also to experiment with mesa and such
[08:23] <mcrt> when the money moves, so does the driver support, and then you're pretty much out of luck
[08:23] <lotuspsychje> mcrt: also interesting to hang there, to see how they fix
[08:24] <lotuspsychje> and following phoronix driver news can be enlighting
[08:24] <ducasse> lotuspsychje: finished breakfast? :)
[08:24] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: yeah, lol was it fast?
[08:25] <ducasse> lotuspsychje: maybe it just seemed fast to me :)
[08:25] <mcrt> lotuspsychje: thanks :) ive got zsnes and dosbox running smoothly, that's pretty much all i need on this machine ;)
[08:26] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: too intering here to miss :p
[08:26] <lotuspsychje> *interesting
[08:27] <lotuspsychje> mcrt: http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=phoronix_news
[08:38] <mcrt> lotuspsychje: that page is so much nicer than the default landing on phoronix.com
[08:38] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: http://www.deviantart.com/art/dark-cyan-i3-linux-663774452
[08:38] <lotuspsychje> mcrt: yeah isnt it, nice category look
[08:43] <lotuspsychje> isnt that cool, zesty kde on surface pro 3: http://www.deviantart.com/art/Kubuntu-17-04-Surface-Pro-3-659930569
[08:51] <lotuspsychje> morning BobbyJr
[08:51] <BobbyJr> Good morning
[09:06] <ducasse> lotuspsychje: nice, but i don't like the color scheme...
[09:46] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: dont like dark themes?
[09:46] <ducasse> dark themes are ok, i don't like the cyan ;)
[09:46] <lotuspsychje> ah
[09:47] <ducasse> i'm not all that fond of dark gtk themes, though, few of them work well in all applications
[09:48] <lotuspsychje> i like the vanilla windowmanagers + nice wallpaper
[09:51] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: does i3 have themes by default?
[09:52] <ducasse> lotuspsychje: no, just a default color scheme and default font.
[09:52] <lotuspsychje> kk
[09:53] <ducasse> you _can_ make it look very nice, though, i've just made it practical and comfy :)
[09:53] <lotuspsychje> yeah i like comfy tweaking aswell under the hood
[09:54] <lotuspsychje> a system should be smooth to work with, very anyoing to work with windows these days
[09:56] <ducasse> i3 is pretty nice to work with by default, but it gets a lot better by adding a few tools, setting your own keybindings etc
[09:57] <ducasse> by now i have everything in muscle memory, so i hardly notice it's there
[09:57] <lotuspsychje> yeah you told me the other day i3 pretty fast start compare to unity aswell
[09:58] <lotuspsychje> for me its interesting to tweak unity same way, so i can bring this to my customers desktops
[09:59] <lotuspsychje> too bad those snaps need launchpad account, so i have to make one for new customers
[10:00] <ducasse> weird, really, as you don't need one to install them from cli
[10:01] <lotuspsychje> ill test again later from ubuntu software
[10:01] <ducasse> i've heard others say it's needed, so i'm sure you're right
[10:02] <lotuspsychje> yeah also saw it passby main, they got errors about an account
[10:02] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: same way you need the account on ubuntu-touch
[10:03] <ducasse> i have mixed feelings about snap, especially that canonical won't let you host your own repo
[10:03] <lotuspsychje> they idea is good, but the structure is complicated indeed
[10:05] <lotuspsychje> no ppa's and cool software like telegram i find fantastic
[10:06] <ducasse> i get slightly suspicious about things like that, and flatpak is completely open. flatpak requires systemd, though, so nothing's perfect ;)
[10:07] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: would love to see a bright future with the user got the complete choice over everything
[10:07] <lotuspsychje> maybe thats too much asked
[10:08] <ducasse> hehe, too many corps and govs who don't want that :)
[10:08] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[10:08] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: off to work mate, ttyl ; )
[10:09] <lotuspsychje> have a nice weekend
[10:09] <ducasse> you too!
[10:09] <lotuspsychje> tnx
[10:09] <lotuspsychje> laterz guys
[11:00] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[11:04] <ducasse> \o BluesKaj
[11:04] <ducasse> did i tell you xbian has switched to kodi 17 now?
[11:07] <BluesKaj> Hi ducasse , I see, I still prefer jarvis, think krypton(17) is a terrible gui, it's much clunkier than jarvis, it's actually harder to navigate
[11:08] <ducasse> i actually think it's much nicer :)
[11:08] <BluesKaj> for me at least
[11:08] <ducasse> although i've not used it that much yet
[11:08] <BluesKaj> it's pk if you don't use addons
[11:08] <BluesKaj> ok
[11:09] <BluesKaj> too many menus
[11:11] <ducasse> i really only use the kodi interface itself, not a lot of addons, so that might explain it
[11:12] <ducasse> i keep noticing little things i think are done better, like the ui being better presented etc
[11:12] <ducasse> BluesKaj: do you know if zesty has relatively new kde packages?
[11:15] <BluesKaj> not really, thay're mainly the same packages, just upgraded using the plasma5 DE
[11:16] <ducasse> ok. tried to play with kde connect, but it seems the yakkety packages are not very useful
[13:54] <tarball> why is there a piece of software on ubuntu that produces its output in Microsoft Windows Excel format? since when supposedly FOSS systems use MS formats?
[13:54] <tarball> hello again to those who were not just in ubuntu channel
[13:58] <ducasse> which software?
[14:09] <tarball> ducasse, "Checkbox"
[14:11] <ducasse> tarball: never heard of it, but i can't see why the developer shouldn't be free to choose whatever format they please
[14:13] <ducasse> tarball: looking at the wikipedia page, it doesn't seem like there are any limitations to using it in foss
[14:14] <tarball> ducasse, regardless of hows and whats of 'xslx' format, I cant even imagine an MS-Office format -yes, it is one- in a FOSS system when there are alternatives. plain as that.
[14:14] <ducasse> so, anything developed by ms is tainted beyond hope?
[14:24] <tarball> ducasse. I guess it is a motive to comply with the broader ubuntu view of today to respond with arguments a la 'what is wrong with X'..still I answer your question; yes.
[14:24] <tarball> and it is a direction
[14:24] <tarball> that is deliberately taken
[14:24] <tarball> why not alternatives when they are there and when they are FOSS?
[14:25] <ducasse> i consider myself fairly strict on foss issues, but there is nothing in the licence that prevents foss from using it. sorry, but saying 'because ms' is just silly, imo.
[14:32] <tarball> I already ventured into hearing from some that it is, no worries. but the fact is that it is not. for, again, 1. it has FOSS alternatives, why not use them instead if you are developing for a FOSS system 2. ubuntu is already known not to be strict about this distinction, and openly putting an MS format out there seems to be a statement for what is yet to come, frankly.
[14:33] <tarball> and last, it disturbs me to see right in the middle of my desktop an MS Office file
[14:35] <ducasse> this is _one_ application in the repos. there are tons of programs there with more worrying licence issues. 'because it was developed by ms' reminds me of people who won't use systemd because lennart poettering is the originator.
[14:35] <ducasse> but whatever, you are entitled to your opinion.
[14:35] <tarball> I dont know about that program. anyway, you're right about more worrying licenses
[14:36] <tarball> and after having opted-out of third party programs during installation, I got graphic isses I never had, as a sidenote
[14:36] <tarball> issues*
[16:55] <OerHeks> when one stops feeding trolls, ..
[16:56] <BluesKaj> OerHeks, it's the wekend , they seem to be mopre active this weekend than usual
[16:57] <ducasse> seems there's been an influx of newbies lately, maybe it's just me.
[16:57] <OerHeks> i know, still i know there are serious people needing a direction.
[16:58] <OerHeks> and a lot of lonely people ♫
[16:58] <BluesKaj> there seems to be one or two in every chat I'm monitoring
[17:00] <ducasse> anyone seen Eric^^ today?
[17:03] <BluesKaj> ducasse, whois doesn't show him anywhere on freenode
[17:04] <OerHeks> actually, i have never seen him.
[17:05] <OerHeks> :-(
[17:05] <ducasse> OerHeks: :-P
[17:05] <OerHeks> eric could be a girl with curly hair ...
[17:05] <BluesKaj> OerHeks,
[17:06] <BluesKaj> ??
[17:06] <OerHeks> oke oke i stop my fantasy
[17:07] <BluesKaj> he lives in a dangerous city
[17:07] <OerHeks> Beirut, yes?
[17:07] <BluesKaj> yup
[17:08] <BluesKaj> very helpful fella tho
[18:36] <Bashing-om> Back ! .. Ready to do this again, see what a Saturday brings .
[18:37] <BluesKaj> Hey Bashing-om, been quiet here for the 90 mins or so
[18:38] <BluesKaj> last
[18:40] <Bashing-om> BluesKaj: Hey hey - Quiet on the channel, generally means I get inquisitive and break something on my system . Just can not leave well enough alone :)
[18:41] <OerHeks> Just finished the kitchen, now doing some ironing..
[18:41] <BluesKaj> well, inquisitive has it's benefits, like learning how stuff breaks :-)
[18:41] <ducasse> hehe, i've resisted upgrading to zesty all day, maybe i'll go ahead and break it properly now before bedtime :)
[18:41] <Bashing-om> BluesKaj: And we then know " do what I say; not what I do !) .
[18:42] <BluesKaj> ducasse, zesty beta 1 is more stable than the daily
[18:43] <BluesKaj> it's still in freeze anyway, I think
[18:43] <ducasse> i might still be able to break it if only i try hard enough ;)
[18:43] <BluesKaj> oh no doubt
[18:43] <Bashing-om> BluesKaj: ducasse Have yet to see any issue within my zesty install ( not counting mir - have not muchly explored ) .
[18:46] <BluesKaj> ahh, i'm running kde/plasma5 here, there a few small issues, like konverstion supposedly crashing after I close it...strange behaviour there
[18:47] <Bashing-om> BluesKaj: Follow up the error report . see if it is an identified issue ?
[18:48] <ducasse> BluesKaj: weirdness. anything if you launch it from shell?
[20:13] <BluesKaj> sorry ducasse, was called afk, haven't tried from the shell yet
[20:49] <Bashing-om> !grub