[07:05] <pitti> Good morning
[07:06] <sarnold> hey pitti :)
[07:06] <pitti> hey sarnold, wie gehts?
[07:06] <sarnold> pitti: sehr gut danke, und dir?
[07:06] <pitti> prima, danke! had a nice and relaxing weekend with some gardening and long walks, yay spring weather
[07:07] <sarnold> sehr schoen :D
[08:22] <Sweet5hark> moin
[08:56] <willcooke> hi gang
[09:01] <didrocks> hey willcooke, Sweet5hark
[09:01] <willcooke> morning didrocks, how are you doing?
[09:02] <lan3y> supsupsupsupsuspuspu
[09:02] <lan3y> why
[09:02] <lan3y> WHY
[09:02] <willcooke> :) mornnig Laney
[09:02] <willcooke> ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[09:03] <seb128> hey willcooke Laney Sweet5hark
[09:03] <willcooke> My computer is very slow this morning.  Just worked out my backup is running.
[09:03] <seb128> had a good w.e?
[09:03] <davmor2> Morning all
[09:03] <Sweet5hark> hey, everyone!
[09:05]  * Sweet5hark had a good weekend: Shyly singing "ode to joy" with some 400 other people at the #pulseforeurope in my city on Sunday was a nice experience.
[09:08] <davmor2> Laney: why did you go from sup to sus to spu?
[09:09] <Laney> evolution
[09:09] <Laney> hi willcooke hi seb128 hi Sweet5hark hi davmor
[09:09] <Laney> 2
[09:09] <Laney> HA
[09:10] <didrocks> willcooke: really really busy and lack of sleep, but good! Yourself?
[09:10] <didrocks> morning Laney, davmor2, re seb128
[09:11] <davmor2> Laney: man seriously you couldn't hit tab to complete my nick ;)
[09:11] <Laney> we had some late night pub times on friday, some friends got engaged
[09:11] <Laney> there were shots
[09:12] <Laney> and a one armed press up contest for some reason
[09:12] <Laney> blergggg
[09:12] <Laney> davmor2: you should be happy about the promotion to davmor1
[09:13] <davmor2> Laney: davmor1 was in use when I installed SuSE Linux 6.3 waaaaaay back or I would of been from then on in davmor2 kinda stuck :)  it was SuSE that gave me the nick :D
[09:14] <pitti> hey gang, much more life here than this morning!
[09:14] <didrocks> good morning pitti!
[09:15] <davmor2> Laney: their manual said to use the first 3 letters of your firstname, the first 3 letters of your surname and a number and davmor1 was already taken :)
[09:15] <Laney> sounds like some company's username policy ended up in their manual
[09:15] <Laney> hey didrocks, ahoy pitti
[09:15] <pitti> sounds very close to "didroc[ks]" :)
[09:16] <desrt> happy monday!
[09:16] <davmor2> Laney: it was more a suggestion of a good username I assume more than a directive :)
[09:17] <Laney> take surname, add a y
[09:17] <Laney> if that sounds weird, try an i instead
[09:17] <Laney> if *that* sounds weird, you're on your own
[09:19] <seb128> hey desrt, pitti, happy monday
[09:19] <pitti> Laney: "pitti" doesn't sound too bad indeed! :)
[09:19] <desrt> morning seb128
[09:19] <pitti> bonjour seb128, hereux lundi à toi aussi !
[09:19] <seb128> 'ci!
[09:19] <desrt> hihi pitti, Laney, didrocks
[09:20] <desrt> larsu says "hi"
[09:20] <Laney> hi coworking space
[09:20] <desrt> Laney: good job
[09:21] <Laney> good weekend?
[09:21] <desrt> Quite good yes :)
[09:22] <desrt> + you?  what went down?
[09:25] <Laney> apart from the aforementioned drinks: went to the library, went climbing, went to a film screening / meal about food sustainability at the 'small food bakery' down the road
[09:26] <desrt> small food?
[09:26] <desrt> like, tiny little croissants?
[09:27] <Laney> i think it's more like local suppliers
[09:28] <Laney> or possibly 'small' refers to the number of companies in the chain
[09:28] <desrt> or the size of the batches?
[09:28] <Laney> but also the actual size of the place too :-)
[09:29] <Laney> http://www.smallfoodbakery.com/shorten-the-food-chain/
[09:29] <desrt> uh
[09:29] <desrt> shortening the food chain would involve the place being vegan :p
[09:32] <desrt> they are curiously selective about which products they list the origins of
[09:33] <Laney> not really my project to have a debate on
[09:33] <Laney> you can probably find her contact details on the website
[09:33] <desrt> not really interested in raining on her parade :p
[09:34] <didrocks> morning desrt, say "hi" back to larsu
[09:34] <desrt> it's bad enough when vegans go around telling other people about why they should be vegan... much worse when a non-vegan is doing this :p
[09:34] <desrt> didrocks: hey.  getting used to your new life well?
[09:35] <didrocks> desrt: depends, feel we got some regressions with the new features from lastdays :)
[09:35] <didrocks> so, still in stabilization period
[09:35] <desrt> "features"
[09:35] <desrt> upgrades suck.  pin that shit :p
[09:35] <didrocks> yeah, everyday he grows some
[09:35] <didrocks> ahah
[09:35] <didrocks> not sure we want to
[09:35] <desrt> ya.. that would be pretty weird i guess
[09:35] <desrt> sounds like you enjoy the adventure, in any case :)
[09:36] <didrocks> indeed :-) and the term is well used!
[13:33] <GunnarHj> seb128: In "Security & Privacy" in u-c-c two tabs (Security and Search) are missing. Is that intentionally?
[13:33] <seb128> GunnarHj, hey, what ubuntu version?
[13:33] <seb128> but no, if tabs were present and are not anymore it's a bug
[13:33] <GunnarHj> seb128: Updated zesty
[13:33] <seb128> GunnarHj, btw xenial langpacks update finally worked
[13:34] <seb128> I was just looking at it
[13:34] <GunnarHj> seb128: Hey, great! :)
[13:34] <seb128> GunnarHj, I'm not using zesty, check with Laney if we can confirm maybe
[13:34] <seb128> open a bug on launchpad in any case
[13:34] <GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, I'll open a bug.
[13:35] <seb128> thanks
[13:35] <seb128> it's on a activily-log-manager I think
[13:35] <seb128> that's what provide that panel iirc
[13:35] <GunnarHj> seb128: Ack.
[13:36] <GunnarHj> seb128: But not the Security part, right? Password at suspend etc.
[13:37] <seb128> you mean? the panel "security & privacy" or whatever it's called in english
[13:37] <seb128> it's one set
[13:38] <GunnarHj> seb128: Yes. Ok, so the whole thing is provided by the package you mentioned. Got it.
[13:38] <Laney> I know about it
[13:38] <Laney> You don't need to file a bug
[13:39] <GunnarHj> Laney: Thanks for stopping me. :) Is it going to be fixed? (It was a docs team member who asked.)
[13:39] <Laney> Sure
[13:39] <GunnarHj> Ack.
[13:40] <Laney> Thanks for reporting though!
[13:45] <seb128> GunnarHj, seems like the ppa cronjob only updated "en", I need to look at that it feels buggy
[13:46] <GunnarHj> seb128: I see. Btw, langpack creation seems to still be disabled for zesty. Related?
[13:46] <seb128> no
[13:47] <GunnarHj> ok
[13:47] <seb128> wgrant said he would enable it today
[13:47] <seb128> export should happen tomorrow
[13:47] <GunnarHj> seb128: Thanks for letting me know.
[13:47] <seb128> it was the free slot in https://dev.launchpad.net/Translations/LanguagePackSchedule
[13:47] <seb128> yw!
[13:49] <GunnarHj> seb128: That schedule looks confusing to me. Waiting til you have sorted it out.
[13:50] <seb128> GunnarHj, what is confusing you? (out of the fact that it's missing zesty)?
[13:51] <GunnarHj> seb128: Well, after having looked at it again: Nothing.
[13:51] <seb128> :-)
[13:54] <Laney> GunnarHj: Well, you moved my brain state, so I just uploaded a fix for that bug. :P
[13:55] <GunnarHj> Laney: Great, thanks for letting me know. :)
[14:06]  * Laney updates face state
[14:06] <Laney> ...that means I'm getting food
[14:09] <didrocks> enjoy!
[14:58] <davmor2> yay for having spare machines that reproduce kvm issues so devs can poke at is to their hearts content \o/
[14:59] <davmor2> s/is/it
[15:00] <davmor2> seb128, Laney: xps13 reproduced the no apps listed issue and Trevinho is poking at it now \o/
[15:00] <seb128> good
[15:00] <seb128> where did you discuss it?
[15:00] <seb128> if there was a discussion between you and Trevinho on the topic I would have expected it to be on this channel
[15:01] <davmor2> seb128: could give out access details on a public channel otherwise I would of :)
[15:02] <seb128> you can discuss the issue on a public channel and send the cred on the side in a query you know? ;-
[15:02] <seb128> ;-)
[15:02] <davmor2> seb128: which is what I just did :P
[15:02] <seb128> cool
[15:05] <davmor2> seb128, Laney, Trevinho: I ran the cd checker on the usb pendrive that came back clean and I ran the md5sums on my image to make sure that matched both came back matched, so the image and install should be good
[15:29] <davmor2> Trevinho: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-lens-applications/+bug/1666495 this was the original bug I filed so we just need to spread the love around to zeitgeist then right?
[15:29] <Trevinho> davmor2: yeah...
[15:30] <Trevinho> davmor2: someone asked to review that zeitgeist change some time ago, but... I don't remember who mhmhm
[15:31] <davmor2> I'm just glad you could tinker and find the fault :)
[15:32] <Laney> Trevinho: which change?
[15:32] <Laney> the systemd thing?
[15:33] <Trevinho> Laney: yep
[15:33] <Trevinho> Laney: that pre-start script fails on first run
[15:34] <Trevinho> Laney: because of
[15:34] <Trevinho> m.vala:38: Impossible to open database `/home/tester/.local/share/zeitgeist/activity.sqlite': unable to open database file
[15:34] <Laney> ok
[15:34] <Trevinho> so... this causes the lenses not to work
[15:34] <Laney> so just make it exit 0 in that case
[15:34] <Trevinho> Laney: yep
[15:34] <Trevinho> Laney: that's enough in fact
[15:34] <Laney> that's what I would expect in the 'nothing to vaccum' scenario
[15:34] <Trevinho> who did that upload so that can fix it quickly?
[15:34] <Laney> dunno, just post a patch on the bug and I'll review it
[15:35] <Trevinho> Laney: actually I'd create also the stamp file, so that the first time it shows up there's no vacuum to do, maybe
[15:35] <davmor2> Laney: see I find all the funniest bugs
[15:35] <FJKong> Laney: I have modify diff of pygtk and open-vm-tools
[15:35] <Laney> FJKong: thx
[15:35] <Laney> Trevinho: what stamp file?
[15:36] <davmor2> Laney: we also discovered one for scaling in vnc desktop sharing too :D
[15:36] <Trevinho> Laney: it creates a stamp file not to do the vacuum all the times
[15:36] <Laney> in the wrapper
[15:36] <Trevinho> which... works after restarting I think, but not all the times
[15:37] <Laney> I would have expected a fix in the program itself
[15:37] <Laney> then the wrapper will make the stamp file anyway
[15:38] <davmor2> Trevinho: if you want a fresh install to double check things just let me know and I can set everything back up to the broken state and ping you back
[15:50] <Trevinho> davmor2, Laney: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zeitgeist/+bug/1666495/comments/6
[15:50] <Laney> urgh
[15:50] <Laney> what happened to checking if the file exists?
[15:51] <davmor2> Trevinho: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vino/+bug/1668309
[15:51] <Trevinho> Laney: well the path is actually something that could change and in general we can't rely on that... Failing is fine for that tool. We've just to care the problem
[15:51] <Trevinho> not* to care ...
[15:52] <Laney> ?!?!?!
[15:52] <Laney> it calls an internal function to get the path
[15:52] <Laney> if that's returning the wrong thing something is quite off
[15:53] <finexbeer> hi
[16:03] <Trevinho> Laney: the tool is returning the right stuff, but it's fine to fail if the file isn't there I think...
[16:04] <Trevinho> ok, we control both the script and the tool, but imho the tool should fail if called and there's no DB (if you consider it as a standalone thing that you also might run manually)
[16:07] <Laney> well, that's a difference then, I would expect it to succeed personally (maybe while printing a message)
[16:07] <Laney> you should be able to write a script "#!/bin/sh\nset -e\nzeitgeist-vaccum\nzeitgeist" and have that work on first run
[16:08] <Trevinho> mh, if you prefer so... but in general, if you call a tool that has to do something in a file... And that file isn't there, is quite normal that it fails, unless you don't pass to it a flag to force on failure
[16:09] <Laney> depends how you expect it to be used
[16:09] <jbicha> Trevinho: did you see my ping about bug 1665902 ? since it seems loosely related to the current topic
[16:09] <Laney> if you think calling it before the first run is normal then it's fine to treat that as a normal code path
[16:12] <Trevinho> jbicha: ah, right... I actually saw it, but I wasn't able to find it again in the backlog
[16:12] <jbicha> I only pinged by subscribing you to the bug
[16:14] <Laney> Trevinho: jbicha: You can move the script into the packaging (make it call zeitgeist --vacuum instead of zeitgeist-vacuum) and then the patch is just modifying the dbus service file and systemd unit
[16:14] <Trevinho> Laney: so I think merging jbicha change is better, then we should just update the script to call that command; using "-" in exec is still needed thogh
[16:15] <pitti> jbicha, Laney, seb128: hm, I must say, not a fan of enabling tracker by default; it's a ridiculously heavy hammer for typeahead serach
[16:15] <Laney> tracker?
[16:15] <Trevinho> jbicha: can you take care of that?
[16:15] <pitti> how expensive can it be to readdir() a single dir for typeahead search?
[16:15] <Laney> Trevinho: If you don't care for my input then do what you want
[16:15] <pitti> Laney: on -desktop@ (22.02.17 14:45 Jeremy Bicha      Nautilus 3.24 and dropping type-ahead search, adding tracker)
[16:15] <Laney> pitti: We have a patch for that currently and it broke
[16:15] <Laney> so... either someone updates it or we do without
[16:16] <Trevinho> Laney: I do care... But if you see the "--vacuum" option is still returning non-zero if fails, so...
[16:16] <seb128> pitti, hey, right same here
[16:16] <Laney> and in the latter case then either we have tracker or we don't
[16:16] <pitti> seb128, Laney: right, I was mostly curious whether you actually plan to enable tracker by default or not
[16:16] <seb128> Laney, right, which is what pitti votes -1 for
[16:16] <Laney> ok
[16:16] <Laney> I understand that
[16:16] <seb128> if I understand what he said correctly
[16:16] <Laney> I'm just explaining
[16:16] <pitti> not that I care personally still (pcmanfm works quite nicely), but IMHO this is absurd
[16:17] <Laney> It's not a case of readdir being expensive, more a maintenance issue with the patch
[16:17] <Laney> in Ubuntu's case anyway
[16:17] <pitti> Laney: right, I'm mostly blaming upstream's design here
[16:17] <seb128> Laney, what are you discussing?
[16:17] <Laney> can't speak for upstream
[16:17] <pitti> I do appreciate that maintaining this patch is too expensive
[16:18] <pitti> AFAICS, the choice is mostly between "enable tracker by default" and "disable typeahead search by default"
[16:18] <seb128> unsure what we are debating over
[16:18] <jbicha> seb128: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2017-February/004849.html
[16:18] <seb128> how typeahead is working or not?
[16:18] <finexbeer> what makes ubuntu so special than adear linux distribution??
[16:18] <seb128> jbicha, thanks that I knew
[16:18] <seb128> but pitti point seemed mostly about tracker
[16:18] <pitti> seb128: well, "debating", I was curious whether you plan to enable tracker by default or not
[16:18] <seb128> not about typeahead
[16:18] <seb128> right
[16:18] <seb128> but Laney started explained the status of the typeahead patch
[16:18] <seb128> so I was wondering
[16:18] <pitti> yeah, and that's related
[16:19] <Laney> I thought it was relevant?
[16:19] <Laney> not trying to start any trollish debate or anything if that's what you thought
[16:19] <pitti> jbicha's mail sounds like "if we drop the patch (understandable) and not enable tracker,then there's no typeahead search any more"?
[16:20] <pitti> I could have misunderstood it; jbicha?
[16:20] <pitti> i. e. I'm not trying to tell you "maintain that patch, d***it", but more like into an upstream direction of "what were you thinking!?" :/
[16:21] <jbicha> csoriano told me that search in nautilus is slow without tracker so he recommended that tracker be enabled
[16:21] <pitti> well, slow is okay
[16:21] <seb128> Laney, no, I'm just not sure where you were trying to get at, it looked like you explained things that people here don't need explained so it felt weird
[16:21] <pitti> everything is slow with tracker, so at least penalize the operation that actually needs it :)
[16:21] <pitti> I was a bit afraid you were saying "it doesn't work at all any more"
[16:21] <Laney> seb128: right, well this side discussion is derailing the main one so I'll step out now
[16:22] <seb128> Laney, k, I should so the same
[16:22] <Laney> bad 20 minutes for me, my zeitgeist idea was rejected and now this one
[16:22]  * Laney goes back to polishing up a patch
[16:22] <pitti> ok, sorry, seems I asked at a bad time
[16:22] <seb128> Laney, did I reject anything? :-(
[16:22] <pitti> (just saw jbicha's mail)
[16:22] <seb128> it's just that we have 2 issues there
[16:22] <seb128> - the typeahead patch needs ported or dropped
[16:22] <Laney> pitti: nope, just my attempt to be helpful wasn't in fact so I step out now
[16:22] <seb128> then jbicha proposal to enable tracker by default
[16:23] <seb128> we could enable indexing while still having typeahead afaik
[16:23] <pitti> this still sounds completely wrong
[16:23] <seb128> yeah
[16:23] <seb128> I'm against enabling tracker by default
[16:23] <seb128> it's a complex piece of code to maintain and has performances impact
[16:24] <pitti> how can a single readdir() be worse than even asking tracker for filtering on a single dir (not even considering the irresponsible overhead of tracker in the first place)
[16:24] <seb128> pitti, I think the issue is not readdir(), it's that nautilus search is recursive
[16:24] <seb128> so if you enter "deb" in your userdir it crawls through subdirs
[16:24] <jbicha> teh tracker maintainer claims that tracker's performance impact is less of a problem now according to his comments on bug 1666676
[16:24] <pitti> uh
[16:25] <pitti> seb128: well, an one-level typeahead search sounds quite enough? but oh well, I figure there's little point in trying to swim against the stream here..
[16:25] <seb128> pitti, well, I think the stream agree with you
[16:25] <davmor2> Trevinho: I take it you have finished with the xps13 so I can take down the open port right?
[16:25] <seb128> or at least I do and previous user feedback in launchpad suggests we are not alone
[16:25] <Trevinho> davmor2: yeah
[16:26] <jbicha> there's a checkbox in zesty's nautilus to turn off "search in subfolders" but I'm not sure that turning it off by default is better for users
[16:26] <davmor2> no worries thanks
[16:26] <seb128> jbicha, it still reads everything on disk to index
[16:26] <pitti> yeah, there's a principal lower boundary of how efficient it can be
[16:26] <seb128> jbicha, if we turn it off then there is probably no need of tracker, as pitti said a readdir() should not be slow
[16:26] <Trevinho> jbicha: I'm trying to use your debdiff, but then quilt doesn't apply patches to me :o
[16:28] <Trevinho> anyway if you can re-enable the script to call zeitgeist --vacuum instead and set the prestart script to that...
[16:28] <Trevinho> it would be fine to me
[16:31] <pitti> seb128, jbicha: yeah, and who would expect a fully recursive search with typeahead? normally typeahead searches in the things that are actually displayed, and that's just the dir itself
[16:31] <pitti> fully recursive is still the "find" (Ctrl+Alt+F or so?) thing, and that's okay to be slow, isn't it?
[16:31] <pitti> so mabye I just misunderstood the email
[16:32] <seb128> pitti, upstream argument is that the full search is sorting results and so you don't need typeahead anymore since validating the first result of the search is an equivalent in their mind
[16:32] <seb128> which I don't agree with
[16:33] <seb128> I should probably give it another try, but last time I did it was not working quite as well as typeahead, especially the screen layour/content keeps changing as you type which is disturbing
[16:36] <jbicha> the gnome3-staging zesty nautilus package has the broken type-ahead patch disabled but it still has the tracker patch
[16:37] <jbicha> so you could compare with XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=GNOME nautilus
[16:37] <jbicha> be sure to do 'pkill nautilus' or similar since nautilus like to keep running in the background
[16:39] <seb128> k, I'm going to give a try to current zesty this week and play with that as well while I'm at it
[16:39] <seb128> but I needs to step out for an hour or so now
[16:39] <seb128> bbl
[16:46] <GunnarHj> seb128: The langpack build seems to have worked for all the languages for touch.
[18:42] <willcooke> night all
[19:17] <davmor2> hey guys how can I figure out whay is triggering systemd-udevd to 100% all the time and why are the 22 of them running
[19:26] <Kinu> Hi
[19:26] <Kinu> can some one helo me out
[19:26] <Kinu> help
[19:27] <Kinu> I am facing some problem with the Bruetoth
[19:27] <Kinu> bluetooth
[19:28] <Kinu> I have installed lubuntu 16.04.2 yesterday