[14:36] <jrwren> rick_h: not long ago we chatted about dotnetcore. This is a great summary: http://no-kill-switch.ghost.io/current-state-of-net-through-not-so-rose-colored-glasses/  " .NET Core today is still a half-baked, chaotic mess"  :)
[15:25] <cmaloney> morning
[15:25] <rick_h> ugh morning
[15:27] <cmaloney> jrwren: .NET Core is what? The olive branch for people who were jumping to Linux / macOS?
[15:27] <jrwren> cmaloney: i guess?
[15:34] <cmaloney> Speaking of .NET, a recruiter wondered if I might be a fit for a PHP / .NET position. After my initial response (hell no) I softened it up a bit so it was more diplomatic (I have no experience in those areas. If they're willing to train...)
[15:36] <brousch__> Still no luck? :(
[15:37] <cmaloney> "Declined to move forward" is my new anarcho-punk SKA band name
[15:38] <cmaloney> Pretty sure the yyears of not working in the cloud are killing me
[15:38] <cmaloney> that and I'm not a great programmer.
[15:39] <brousch__> I'm not either, which is why this devops role is a good fit. It's more Linux system setup than actual programming
[15:40] <cmaloney> Yeah
[15:40] <brousch__> We have an opening here, but you might have to drive to GR twice a week.
[15:40] <cmaloney> but again, most of that is a non-starter unless you have AWS experience
[15:40] <brousch__> Ours is all on-prem. AWS is our competitor ;)
[15:41] <cmaloney> Ah, lovely. :)
[15:42] <cmaloney> I'll have to think about it. honestly at this point driving isn't much of an issue.
[15:42] <brousch__> How's the Javascript education going?
[15:42] <cmaloney> Meh
[15:42] <cmaloney> I can't get excited about web development
[15:42] <cmaloney> but I'm trying to find the unicorn
[15:43] <cmaloney> in the hopes that I somehow get excited about it
[15:43] <brousch__> There are so damned many pieces and options now. Give me JQuery!
[15:43] <cmaloney> "DO you know React?" "No, but wait 5 minutes and you'll be asking me for something else"
[15:44] <brousch__> heh
[15:44] <brousch__> A lot of places are looking for specific skills like that because their developer got a better job and they need stuff fixed now
[15:45] <cmaloney> Oh I know
[15:45] <cmaloney> they're looking for unicorns
[15:45] <cmaloney> My favorite is the "full-stack developer"
[15:47] <cmaloney> I also had a recruiter contact me about a position that was posted on the GR-PUG list in 2015.
[15:47] <brousch__> I used to be that. But now each piece of the stack feels more complicated
[15:47] <cmaloney> apparently they still have an "immediate opening"
[15:47] <brousch__> For a "Python Expert"?
[15:47] <cmaloney> (never heard back from them when I pointed out that this was posted on that mailing list)
[15:48] <cmaloney> one sec. Checking email
[15:48] <jrwren> that recruiter is busy learning about mailing lists
[15:49] <cmaloney> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/grpug/1em_u1wGpLE
[15:49] <Zimdale> ....PHP / .NET? O.o what messed up stack do they have?
[15:50] <cmaloney> Zimdale: likely a PHP front-end to a .NET translation to a ETL system
[15:50] <jrwren> bonus if its SSIS for ETL
[15:50] <brousch__> cmaloney: Ah, that is a legit role. A couple of the devs from there came to the last meeting.
[15:50] <cmaloney> Looking for a developer with php and/or .NET experience and working with
[15:50] <cmaloney> API's. Also someone with ETL experience such as Talend. I'd like someone
[15:50] <cmaloney> with a couple years experience that can help with design.
[15:51] <brousch__> It is basically banking middleware.
[15:51] <jrwren> banking? who is this?
[15:51] <Zimdale> ah I see
[15:51] <Zimdale> That sounds horribly boring :(
[15:52] <jrwren> yes, but if it pays $200,000, I'm in for a new job. ;]
[15:53] <jrwren> i tick all the boxes even. ;p
[15:53] <cmaloney> "Implementation of at least FIPS 140-2 compliant security and data protection" ?
[15:53] <jrwren> whats more, I even LIKE php and C#
[15:53] <jrwren> oh fuck no.
[15:53] <jrwren> nevermind.
[15:53] <jrwren> FIPS is so bad it hurts.
[15:53] <brousch__> https://cuanswers.applicantpool.com/jobs/130706.html
[15:53] <jrwren> wtf, banks don't have to FIPS, do they?
[15:53] <cmaloney> That was for the Python Integration one
[15:57] <cmaloney> But what's also fun is I haven't done much with REST APIs either (at least not professionally)
[15:57] <cmaloney> consuming and using, yes, but not building
[15:57] <cmaloney> it's not out of my realm to learn, but that's a lovely pit to fall down
[15:57] <cmaloney> I swear I need about a year or two to learn what I should be
[15:58] <cmaloney> unfortunately I have less than six months. :)
[15:58] <cmaloney> (which does wonders for the anxiety)
[15:58] <Zimdale> a year or two to learn about REST APIs?
[15:58] <jrwren> cmaloney: its all b.s. anyway.
[15:59] <cmaloney> No, a year or two to learn full stack development / AWS / REST
[15:59] <Zimdale> ah
[15:59] <Zimdale> that makes more sense
[15:59] <jrwren> you could learn all that in 2months.
[15:59] <cmaloney> No, REST is pretty easy.
[15:59] <cmaloney> and yes, it's mostly bullshit.
[15:59] <Zimdale> AWS is one hell of a rabbit hole though
[15:59] <cmaloney> but it ticks a box
[15:59] <jrwren> no one knows all of AWS.
[16:00] <jrwren> its like saying someone knows all of Win32.
[16:00] <jrwren> there are too many API
[16:00] <jrwren> knowing aws usually means, basics of ec2, basics of s3, bonus for elb.
[16:00] <Zimdale> I think part of learning AWS is learning something like Terraform or Cloudformation
[16:00] <cmaloney> Yeah
[16:01] <cmaloney> Possibly Amazon's PostgreSQL spin (Red-something)
[16:01] <Zimdale> Redis
[16:01] <Zimdale> er
[16:01] <Zimdale> no
[16:01] <Zimdale> ignore that
[16:01] <cmaloney> Zimdale: Thank you for your time. Please leave your mug on the table.
[16:01] <cmaloney> ;)
[16:01] <jrwren> yeah, i disagree. :p
[16:01] <cmaloney> I'll get Barry to escort you out.
[16:02] <jrwren> i'm a lower level AWS user. no need for TF or CF or Juju :)
[16:02] <cmaloney> Yeah, nobody needs Juju.
[16:02] <cmaloney> ;)
[16:02] <cmaloney> I just drive out to EAST-1, yank our disks, and use a magnetized paperclip to deploy my systems.
[16:02] <jrwren> well, not NOBODY...
[16:02] <Zimdale> TF is really nice because it makes AWS not specific to AWS, you can add a check mark for "cloud providers" instead of just AWS becuase it can be ported to DO or the like super easily
[16:04] <jrwren> it is great, no doubt. There are LOTS of those.
[16:04] <cmaloney> I'm just feeling a bit like I did in school: when one day you show up and everyone "knows" something that you feel like you missed.
[16:04] <jrwren> puppet/chef/salt/fabric can all do that too.
[16:04] <cmaloney> and they're so "of course" about it.
[16:05] <jrwren> cmaloney: that is how I feel about the entire nodejs ecosystem.
[16:05] <brousch__> cmaloney: I agree. It happened really fast.
[16:05] <jrwren> I wonder if there is a word for that.
[16:05] <cmaloney> elderly.
[16:05] <cmaloney> ;)
[16:05] <jrwren> leftbehind
[16:05] <brousch__> And I feel your pain about figuring out where to focus.
[16:05] <cmaloney> Pretty sure I'll be in the bathroom when the rapture happens
[16:05] <Zimdale> damn kids and such
[16:05] <cmaloney> come out, sip on some coffee, and wonder where the hell everyone is. :)
[16:06] <cmaloney> brousch__: It's getting my "you should be a writer, or a game designer" brain shouting at me
[16:06] <cmaloney> but those tend to not make money
[16:06] <brousch__> Advice from a recruiter and friend was "Stick with what you know. Go deeper. An opportunity will pop up." But I had the benefit of time to wait.
[16:06] <cmaloney> I'd rather not live my life fromo gofundme campaign to the next.
[16:06] <jrwren> cmaloney: one thing I learned is that all these "on aws" systems dont' want you to understand how to use AWS directly, becuase that shows you just how simple their magic must have layer is.
[16:07] <cmaloney> brousch__: That's good advice
[16:07] <cmaloney> and it's not like I don't have irons in the fire.
[16:07] <cmaloney> I do
[16:07] <Zimdale> Unless "What you know" is Progress >.>
[16:07] <cmaloney> but the rejections are taking their toll
[16:07] <jrwren> that really is good advice. I'd never have left the C# world if I'd have followed it.
[16:08] <jrwren> grass looked greener, but really its a brown world.
[16:08] <cmaloney> Zimdale: "The world needs ditch diggers"
[16:08] <cmaloney> jrwren: But you went even deeper than that
[16:08] <cmaloney> You're platform-agnostic
[16:08] <jrwren> I argue that is breadth not depth
[16:09] <cmaloney> breadth got me where I am
[16:09] <cmaloney> :)
[16:09] <jrwren> me too.
[16:09] <jrwren> before C#, I did perl on unix, so maybe I should have gone deeper with that ;)
[16:09] <cmaloney> I had one interview that really clicked for me. I was going through my experience and one thing emerged from it: I did what needed to get done
[16:10] <cmaloney> I became a "Team Lead" because that was what was needed.
[16:10] <jrwren> smart and gets things done eh? go figure!
[16:10] <cmaloney> I've done admin because that was what was needed. I did web-programming in Perl because that was what was needed.
[16:10] <cmaloney> Meh, I'm not even sure about the smart anymore. :)
[16:10] <SneakyPhil> ahoyhoy
[16:10] <cmaloney> Howdy.
[16:10] <Zimdale> o/
[16:11] <Zimdale> It's hard to put "Got things that needed to be done done" on a resume though :(
[16:11] <cmaloney> jrwren: point being you didn't define yourself with what platform you used. You understood the core concepts enough so you could move from platform to platform.
[16:12] <cmaloney> Zimdale: It's even harder to put "spent most of my time on SO looking up how to do it"
[16:12] <SneakyPhil> ^
[16:12] <cmaloney> or Perl Monks.
[16:12] <Zimdale> "Master copy pasta chef"
[16:12] <SneakyPhil> "Researched and implemented ABC to provide XYZ benefit to COMPANY/APP"
[16:12] <cmaloney> "Sure I can balance a binary search tree. Give me one how and an internet connection and I'll blow your mind"
[16:13] <cmaloney> s/how/hour/
[16:13] <SneakyPhil> if a binary search tree could search trees, how many binaries would a search tree search
[16:14] <jrwren> log n?
[16:14] <cmaloney> all the binaries it could search if a search tree searched binary search trees
[16:15] <brousch__> I really love how many remote work jobs are cropping up http://stackoverflow.com/jobs/remote-developer-jobs
[16:15] <Zimdale> Look at all that javascript :(
[16:16] <cmaloney> and a lot of Go
[16:16] <cmaloney> That's crazy
[16:17] <jrwren> its tragic for our industry
[16:17] <cmaloney> We said the same of Ruby. We survived
[16:17] <cmaloney> we say the same of JavaScript. We're still sorting out that mess.
[16:17] <jrwren> we never really sorted out the ruby. we just moved on AFAICT
[16:17] <jrwren> who does new ruby project anymore? I don't know that anyone does.
[16:18] <jrwren> its all legacy rails maintenance.
[16:18] <Zimdale> We do ruby microservices occasionally
[16:18] <cmaloney> Depends on the developer. I think Dan Benjamin of 5by5 released Fireside in Ruby
[16:18] <cmaloney> he's huge into Ruby
[16:18] <cmaloney> to the point where I think he discounts Python
[16:18] <cmaloney> Depends on the community
[16:19] <cmaloney> I'd wonder who deploys new Java code, but I'm sure someone does
[16:19] <SneakyPhil> jrwren: Sensu is ruby
[16:19] <SneakyPhil> they just became their own real company
[16:19] <jrwren> SneakyPhil: never heard of it.
[16:19] <SneakyPhil> nagios-esque monitoring platform
[16:19] <cmaloney> https://sensuapp.org/
[16:19] <SneakyPhil> it's pretty nice
[16:19] <Zimdale> There is actually a lot of new Java still being developed.
[16:20] <Zimdale> Surprises me with all the new language noise
[16:20] <SneakyPhil> some friends say that Scala is a joke, unsure about that
[16:20] <jrwren> cmaloney: Dan Benjamin is a crazy ruby person IMO :p
[16:20] <SneakyPhil> the day this world stops running on bash scripts and makefiles I'll go become a farmer
[16:20] <cmaloney> jrwren: I won't argue it.
[16:20] <jrwren> google is still a C/C++/Java/Python/Go/JS/Dart ONLY company. no other langs allowed, AFAIK
[16:21] <cmaloney> Dart
[16:21] <jrwren> i threw it in there to avoid the well actually reply.
[16:21] <cmaloney> ;)
[16:21] <jrwren> netflix uses lots of java and scala.
[16:21] <jrwren> still lots of new java at netflix AFAIK
[16:21] <jrwren> I gave up on scala once I saw how much it lied to you.
[16:21] <cmaloney> Honestly I expect JoDee to get a developer job before I do
[16:22] <cmaloney> she has the math background for Machine Learning / Statistics
[16:24] <brousch__> cmaloney: Your task: Build a database and webapp of open source metal music on AWS. Add machine learning to suggest other music people would like.
[16:25] <cmaloney> brousch__: I need to monetize that
[16:26] <SneakyPhil> the differentiator is that it suggests other music?
[16:26] <brousch__> No, it is your showcase project
[16:26] <SneakyPhil> because http://www.metal-archives.com/
[16:26] <brousch__> Is that only creative commons music?
[16:26] <SneakyPhil> ah, no
[16:27] <brousch__> I meant creative commons earlier, not open source
[16:28] <cmaloney> It's a domain that I specialize in. :)
[16:29] <brousch__> You're an expert in the field
[16:31]  * cmaloney scribbles some ideas
[16:35] <Zimdale> Just got an email from a "big data analytics" company in Ann Arbor that is looking for sr python and paying $130k
[16:35] <Zimdale> not sure why I got said email but 130k is a nice number
[16:35] <cmaloney> That is.
[16:36] <Zimdale> If you want it I can forward it to you haha
[16:36] <cmaloney> If you want. Email address is at http://decafbad.net/about
[16:36] <Zimdale> "The office is packed with plenty of snacks, beer, and sunlight"
[16:36] <SneakyPhil> Zimdale: got that too
[16:37] <Zimdale> lol for the same position SneakyPhil?
[16:37] <Zimdale> Sr Software Engineer?
[16:37] <jrwren> i wonder if it is DUO or Care
[16:38] <jrwren> oh, lol, i just got that same email too :)
[16:38] <Zimdale> I would be surprised if Duo didn't have the reputation such where they don't need to spam everyone in the industry
[16:39] <jrwren> oh, no, that is an Arbor job.
[16:39] <jrwren> I know exactly what that job is ;)
[16:39] <cmaloney> Arbor Networks?
[16:39] <SneakyPhil> Zimdale: yeah
[16:39] <jrwren> I think so, although it might be Deepfield.
[16:39] <cmaloney> I already have a resume in with Arbor.
[16:39] <SneakyPhil> there's a geospatial imaging company over there too
[16:40] <SneakyPhil> md something or other
[16:40] <jrwren> but I think it is Arbor Networks bringing their austrialian purchase co into US
[16:40] <jrwren> but that was ruby/jruby, so maybe it is deepfield
[16:40] <cmaloney> I love how these get dissected. :)
[16:41] <cmaloney> *shake* *shake* *read tea leaves*
[16:41] <jrwren> cmaloney: you want to work at Arbor? come to SEMJS meetup, meet daniel and see if she can get you an interview.
[16:41] <cmaloney> Already had an interview. :)
[16:41] <jrwren> oh, ok.
[16:41] <cmaloney> tx though
[16:41] <jrwren> its a bit easier than reading tea leaves.
[16:41] <jrwren> email says: "for large communication providers and large enterprises."
[16:41] <jrwren> that is arbor or deepfield.
[16:42] <Zimdale> The one person I have talked to from Arbor Networks didn't seem to thrilled to be there and she was doing a lot of really bullshit php work that apparently shouldn't have existed.
[16:42] <Zimdale> But that was a few years ago
[16:42] <cmaloney> I applied for their build-tools department
[16:43] <cmaloney> so we'll see if that pans out
[16:43] <rick_h> didn't jrwren work for them at one point?
[16:43] <jrwren> cmaloney: oh man! tommy beetle!  he is really smart.  A bit pedantic, but really smart.
[16:43] <jrwren> cmaloney: that team is cool.
[16:43] <jrwren> yes, I still know a few people there.
[16:44] <cmaloney> jrwren: Thank you. That helps. :)
[16:44] <brousch__> cmaloney: You have to leverage your network to put in good words for you
[16:44] <cmaloney> brousch__: My network works for Canonical now. :)
[16:44] <brousch__> I would not have had my last 2 jobs without people I know being involved
[16:45] <cmaloney> I know. My last three jobs were all referral.
[16:45] <brousch__> Yeah, but they know people at previous employers and have good reputations
[16:45] <jrwren> cmaloney: correct me if I'm wrong, but you aren't getting desparate or anything, right? It seems like you are turning a lot down waiting to find a really great fit for you?
[16:50] <cmaloney> jrwren: A little of both
[16:50] <cmaloney> I'm getting to the point where I'm being a lot less picky
[16:51] <cmaloney> but I also want to find a good fit
[16:51] <cmaloney> that said, it's hard to be picky when there's nothing at the buffet
[16:52] <cmaloney> part of my pickiness though is jobs that are obviusly not a good fit
[16:52] <cmaloney> I don't care for Windows, so if it's primarily Windows then I'm going to do poorly
[16:52] <cmaloney> I don't want to waste anyone's time with that
[16:56] <jrwren> cmaloney: iirc nutshell in AA is hiring. i hear great things.
[16:56] <cmaloney> jrwren: Will check it out. Thanks!
[17:09] <cmaloney> And thank you everyone for listening to me and recommending things to try. I can't express how much it helps, only that it does. :)
[17:26] <rick_h> flav works at nutshell still I think
[17:27] <cmaloney> That's a name I haven't heard in a while
[17:27] <jrwren> yes, flav is still there. I see him there every so often.
[17:32] <Zimdale> Nutshell looks neat, just the end product looks so boring :(
[17:36] <jrwren> i'm old. i'd like some boring.
[17:37] <cmaloney> You're old? I'm ancient then
[17:38] <jrwren> oh definitely.
[17:38] <brousch__> cmaloney: The world needs old people. Without them everyone's lawn would be ruined by those damn kids.
[17:38] <Zimdale> Someone has to be around to remember the time before computers
[17:39] <cmaloney> brousch__: Remind me to whack your kneecaps with my cane next time I see you
[17:45] <SneakyPhil> there's a simpsons joke there
[17:49] <Zimdale> 0http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/044/247/297.png
[18:01] <brousch__> There is no cloud. It's just someone else's computer.
[18:30] <jrwren> I read this tweet and my immediate response is, "no you are not"  :)  https://twitter.com/sebis/status/834584845699395588
[18:30] <jrwren> i'm so jaded.
[18:31] <rick_h> ? reverse proxy is just...a proxy
[18:31]  * rick_h doesn't get the special bit
[18:33] <jrwren> exactly.
[18:33] <jrwren> i'm being pedantic over "running asp.net core apps using apache"
[18:34] <jrwren> its a poorly worded title.
[18:36] <cmaloney> Running Python Applications using Apache
[18:36] <cmaloney> (and a reverse proxy. And nginx in the middle. And ...)
[18:36] <cmaloney> mod_asp or it didn't happen. ;)
[21:31] <cmaloney> Installed mysql on JoDee's laptop.
[21:32] <cmaloney> it was either that or install Oracle or SQL Server, so I hope I made the right call. ;)
[21:57] <Zimdale> I feel like I shoulld know who JoDee is but I dont :(
[22:02] <cmaloney> JoDee is my wife
[22:03] <cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/jodee
[22:03] <cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/jodee-page/rather
[22:03] <cmaloney> http://decafbad.net/jodee-page/ rather
[22:03] <Zimdale> Ah gotcha
[22:04] <cmaloney> https://get.google.com/albumarchive/117777908934895049975/album/AF1QipMg055sVauEnVD1Wk1rcZ5vpYH7H2i87PbzvY-M/AF1QipOfuC2kNCXjWcU2ao5BOKi811DWCPgUs5eXyzIk?authKey=CNe9icTVus35Dw
[22:04] <Zimdale> Figured it was something like that, either wife or daughter
[22:04] <cmaloney> That's her eating a Beignet
[22:05] <cmaloney> No kids
[22:05] <Zimdale> I think I actually met her last pcon
[22:05] <Zimdale> Ah well
[22:06] <cmaloney> I think you did
[22:06] <cmaloney> She was at Qdoba
[22:06] <Zimdale> yeah
[23:15] <gamerchick02> she has a nice website