[02:24] <edv> hi guys, just check in
[02:25] <edv> are there's any people from South East Asia ?
[03:01] <flamingphoenix> anyone here
[04:45] <dell> Boa noite
[04:46] <dell> Algum brasileiro aqui?
[08:26] <stinkfoot> when i go to hexchat, what is the best and most used chat channel?
[08:38] <stinkfoot> hi
[14:02] <finexbeer> is the lenovo n22 good for ubuntu mate
[14:14] <SuperEngineer> If it's good for Linux, it's good for Ubuntu Mate [personal opinion]
[14:16] <finexbeer> is good for progaming
[14:16] <SuperEngineer> ?
[14:17] <finexbeer> if it this pc good for programing
[14:17] <SuperEngineer> [soorry, don't know the answer to that 1.. but if it's supplied with a good processor, memory and disk,, why mot?
[14:19] <finexbeer> it got 4gb ram a 1.6 ghz and 30gb of speace
[14:19] <ubuntu-mate> hello everyone
[14:19] <finexbeer> hi
[14:20] <finexbeer> ubuntu
[14:20] <finexbeer> is the levono n22 good for this opereting sistem
[14:20] <ubuntu-mate> is there anything you need help with?
[14:21] <finexbeer>  is the levono n22 good for this opereting sistem?? ubuntu mate
[14:21] <SuperEngineer> ubuntu-mate ^
[14:21] <ubuntu-mate> give me a minute and i will tell you
[14:22] <finexbeer> ok
[14:22] <finexbeer> thatnks
[14:22] <ubuntu-mate> well, im running ubuntu mate now on 4 gb of ram and it behaves ok
[14:23] <ubuntu-mate> what is the cpu model?
[14:23] <SuperEngineer> finexbeer: a [hopefully] helpful hint... use tab to auto-complete names
[14:23] <ubuntu-mate> thx
[14:25] <finexbeer> intel hd
[14:26] <ubuntu-mate> i say it should work
[14:27] <SuperEngineer> finexbeer: what are the sellers asking you to pay for it?
[14:27] <finexbeer> and the HP G5 255 Notebook
[14:27] <ubuntu-mate> it appears to be a chromebook, why do you want to change from chrome os to ubuntu mate?
[14:28] <finexbeer> i wanna a linux pc laptop for coding
[14:28] <ubuntu-mate> ok
[14:29] <finexbeer> i wanna buy a new pc
[14:29] <ubuntu-mate> i think this laptop goes for $200 on amazon
[14:30] <SuperEngineer> seems good then
[14:31] <ubuntu-mate> well, if you could get ubuntu mate to run on this laptop then it should be quite good
[14:32] <ubuntu-mate> i gotta go, sorry. bye
[14:33] <finexbeer> thanks
[14:34] <SuperEngineer> finexbeer: which lenovo was it again, please.  [just doing a google search]
[14:34] <finexbeer> lenovo n20
[14:35] <finexbeer> n22 sorry
[14:36] <SuperEngineer> try https://certification.ubuntu.com/certification/make/Lenovo/
[14:36] <SuperEngineer> if it is Ubuntu certifi
[14:38] <SuperEngineer> certified, it'll be ok for Ubuntu-Mate. The specs for yours are "good enough" for proamming, but compiling may be a bit slow, burt not too slow t worry about.
[14:38] <Akuli> i could do almost all of my programming on a 10 year old computer
[14:39] <finexbeer> ok thanks
[14:39] <SuperEngineer> Akuli:  I could do mine on a rubber band, with patience.
[14:40] <Akuli> i think my laptop is soon 10 years old, and its really fast with an ssd
[14:41] <SuperEngineer> Anything is faster with 1 odf those.  How does that help the person with the question though?
[14:42] <Akuli> i don't know :)
[14:44] <SuperEngineer> ;-)
[15:23] <finexbeer> is the intell Celeron good for ubuntu
[15:24] <alkisg> Which one? specific name?
[15:24] <alkisg> There are celerons from 2000 and from 2017...
[15:25] <finexbeer> Intel Celeron N3050
[15:26] <alkisg> Yes, it's good enough
[15:26] <alkisg> Although it's a slow processor, you could have bought something a lot better with a littler more money...
[15:27] <alkisg> http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Celeron+N3050+%40+1.60GHz
[15:27] <alkisg> Score: 892
[15:27] <alkisg> There are celerons with 3000+ score... 3-4 times faster
[15:29] <finexbeer> APU AMD E2-7110 con scheda grafica Radeon™ R2 (1,8 GHz, 2 MB di cache, 4 core) and this is good or not good
[15:31] <alkisg> Yes it's good
[16:18] <juan_> hola
[16:30] <SuperEngineer> espanol?
[16:31] <Akuli> he quit already :(
[16:31] <SuperEngineer> anticipation perhaps?
[16:32] <Akuli> people are not familiar with the concept of waiting 10 minutes :)
[16:32] <Akuli> i think the /topic should be more verbose about waiting
[16:32] <Akuli> like "WAIT AT LEAST 10 MINUTES"
[16:48] <SuperEngineer> oe, instead of "wait at least 10 minutes", let them know that "You are on IRC, everyone is not always here, others maybe eventually here.  Stop being so impatient and hang around... or ask youself, why did I ask on IRC"  ;-)
[16:48] <SuperEngineer> *or
[16:50] <SuperEngineer> "We are here to help, if we can, we can't work miracles" ;-)
[16:52] <SuperEngineer> [except me, of course... my work place seem to think I *can* work miracles!  [#puke
[18:16] <john69> hello... just installed Ubuntu MATE a few days ago...
[18:16] <john69> having a fun time setting it up the way i like
[18:16] <john69> but can't figure out for the life of me how to DELETE Firefox
[18:17] <john69> it doesn't show up in the 'Software Boutique" as an installed App
[18:17] <alkisg> You can install another browser and make it default
[18:17] <john69> yep... did that
[18:17] <alkisg> If you remove the default browser, which is firefox, some mate programs will be removed too
[18:17] <john69> not want to get rid of Firefox
[18:18] <john69> like which ones?  thunderbird?
[18:18] <john69> i'm fine with removing that as well... using Evolution
[18:18] <alkisg> sudo apt-get purge firefox
[18:18] <alkisg> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[18:18] <alkisg>   firefox* ubuntu-mate-core* ubuntu-mate-desktop*
[18:19] <Akuli> alkisg, that's not correct
[18:19] <Akuli> ubuntu-mate-core and ubuntu-mate-desktop are meta packages
[18:19] <Akuli> installing them pulls in a bunch of stuff, but removing them does nothing
[18:19] <alkisg> No, remember you were wrong there
[18:19] <Akuli> well, i haven't had those things installed for a long time :)
[18:19] <alkisg> Removing meta-packages and running auto-remove, removes their recommendations too
[18:19] <Akuli> then we can apt-mark them installed
[18:19] <alkisg> You were right in the part that they're marked as 'manually installed 'from the live cd though
[18:22] <alkisg> $ sudo apt-get purge --auto-remove ubuntu-mate-core ubuntu-mate-desktop
[18:22] <alkisg>   bluez-cups* pppoeconf* printer-driver-pxljr* printer-driver-splix* ubuntu-mate-core* ubuntu-mate-desktop*
[18:22] <alkisg> So no, some packages aren't marked as manually installed
[18:24] <alkisg> The best thing to do would be for these to be "recommends", not "depends"... so that we could remove whatever we wanted without ubuntu-mate-core getting purged too
[18:24] <john69> hmmm... ok
[18:24] <Akuli> anyway i have often removed firefox no problem
[18:25] <Akuli> i think we should recommend that to john69 instead of forcing him to stick with a browser he doesn't like
[18:25] <alkisg> Having firefox installed doesn't mean that he has to use it too
[18:25] <Akuli> yeah but still
[18:25] <Akuli> why not help him
[18:25] <alkisg> I say what I believe is best... if he insists on removing it, he can surely do so
[18:26] <john69> well... if taking it off my system will break other stuff i might need (like printing)
[18:26] <john69> maybe i don't want to remove Firefax
[18:26] <Akuli> of course, we can fix that :)
[18:26] <alkisg> john69: no, it involves these things:
[18:27] <alkisg> 1) now, you manually marking the auto-removed packages as manually installed, so that they don't get removed,
[18:27] <alkisg> and 2) in the future, to run `apt show ubuntu-mate-core` on each update, and see if it has more dependencies, so that you manually install them
[18:27] <alkisg> If you do want to do those, it's quite easy to remove firefox
[18:27] <Akuli> whats the point of 2)
[18:27] <alkisg> An update of mate might depend on new programs
[18:27] <alkisg> If he removes ubuntu-mate-core, he will lose the new pgroams
[18:28] <alkisg> *programs
[18:28] <Akuli> then why wouldn't it get installed by itself?
[18:28] <alkisg> If one has ubuntu-mate-core, and it starts depending on new programs, they will be automatically installed
[18:28] <Akuli> ubuntu-mate-blabla is not quite the same as mate-desktop-blabla
[18:28] <alkisg> If one has removed ubuntu-mate-core, he won't get them
[18:28] <Akuli> why would he need them?
[18:28] <alkisg> Run apt-show ubuntu-mate-core and see if you need them
[18:29] <alkisg> All mate is there
[18:29] <alkisg> If you don't need mate... sure you can remove it
[18:29] <alkisg> 100 packages...
[18:29] <Akuli> "It is safe to remove this package if some of these packages are not desired."
[18:29] <Akuli> says this system
[18:29] <Akuli> not sure about 16.04
[18:29] <alkisg> Yes, and you still need to look manually which of them you want or not
[18:30] <alkisg> If he wants to start doing that manually in the future, he can remove firefox
[18:30] <Akuli> well you know we could just get rid of it, apt-mark them all installed and be done with it
[18:30] <alkisg> I don't want to have to check 100 dependencies on each update...
[18:30] <Akuli> why would you?
[18:30] <alkisg> He will lose future packages, future dependencies of ubuntu-mate-core
[18:30] <Akuli> i don't believe in ending up with anything breaking on update because of this
[18:31] <alkisg> Not breaking. Missing.
[18:31] <alkisg> See ubuntu-mate-core of 14.04 and of 16.04
[18:31] <Akuli> can you explain why he would need those future packages?
[18:31] <alkisg> I'm sure you'll find out that 16.04 depends on 10 more packages
[18:31] <alkisg> So, if someone removed firefox, and upgraded from 14.04 to 16.04, he wouldn't have them
[18:31] <Akuli> what are those 10 packages?
[18:32] <alkisg> I would have to check in packages.ubuntu.com
[18:32] <alkisg> I don't want to risk though
[18:32] <alkisg> And that's a risk that I want to warn him about
[18:32] <alkisg> If you know that he won't need them, then sure tell him
[18:32] <Akuli> ok i'll check
[18:32] <alkisg> But I don't know the future
[18:32] <Akuli> i have a 16.04 stick somewhere
[18:33] <Akuli> or you know, if this is such a huge problem let's make a dummy package that represents firefox and install that
[18:33] <alkisg> Compare those for example: http://packages.ubuntu.com/zesty/ubuntu-mate-core and http://packages.ubuntu.com/xenial/ubuntu-mate-core
[18:34] <alkisg> I want to tell him that the new packages there will be missing, and that if he wants them, he'll have to install them manually
[18:34] <alkisg> If you _know_ the future and that he'll never end up wanting the new dependencies, then sure you can tell him not to worry
[18:35] <Akuli> it's hard to say anything without knowing what these changes are
[18:35] <Akuli> let me compare these
[18:35] <alkisg> You can compare those; but you can't compare with the future ones
[18:35] <alkisg> That's the biggest risk there
[18:35] <Akuli> i still don't understand why not getting a package would be "a risk"
[18:35] <Akuli> unless a new version of some program breaks without it, but apt will take care of installing it then
[18:37] <alkisg> The "risk" of missing packages is that you don't know that you need them
[18:37] <alkisg> For example, if you don't get hplip, printing won't work
[18:37] <alkisg> And you'll have to google and spend a  couple of hours until you realize that hplip was missing
[18:37] <alkisg> That's a real example that happened to me
[18:37] <Akuli> a desktop environment's job is not to install printer drivers
[18:38] <alkisg> Didn't you see what I pasted above?
[18:38] <Akuli> comparing them
[18:38] <alkisg> (08:22:28 μμ) alkisg: $ sudo apt-get purge --auto-remove ubuntu-mate-core ubuntu-mate-desktop
[18:38] <alkisg> (08:22:28 μμ) alkisg:   bluez-cups* pppoeconf* printer-driver-pxljr* printer-driver-splix* ubuntu-mate-core* ubuntu-mate-desktop*
[18:38] <alkisg> It says "printer" there :)
[18:38] <alkisg> And it's installed by the desktop environment
[18:39] <alkisg> Also, ubuntu-mate-core does recommend hplip, it's what installs it
[18:39] <Akuli> ok, if you think this is such a huge problem let's make a dummy package
[18:40] <alkisg> Why? What's so annoying about having firefox installed?
[18:40] <alkisg> If it's the icon in the menu, you can dpkg-divert it
[18:40] <Akuli> or you know
[18:40] <Akuli> delete the .desktop file
[18:40] <alkisg> No, it will be put there again on updates
[18:48] <john69> thanks guys... thought it would be simple... but it looks like it isn't
[18:49] <john69> i'll just leave it alone
[18:49] <Akuli> it is simple
[18:49] <john69> 30+ lines of discussion about it doesn't look 'simple' to me  ;)
[18:50] <Akuli> i guess less than 10 commands isn't too bad?
[18:50] <Akuli> that is, a fake firefox package
[18:51] <john69> ciao!
[18:51] <Akuli> oh lol
[18:51] <Akuli> i made a fake firefox for that guy
[18:51] <alkisg> Ηαηα
[18:51] <alkisg> Haha
[18:52] <alkisg> Helping teachers made me not listen to what they say, but imagine what's best for them in the long run... :D
[18:52] <Akuli> this just seems way too much windows
[18:52] <Akuli> "can i disable this and this feature i don't want? no, it breaks everything"
[18:53] <alkisg> Nah. Remember, not everyone is Akule and knows how to make packages...
[18:53] <Akuli> you know what
[18:53] <alkisg> If someone adds a PPA, there's a 20% chance that it'll break his apt-get update some time in the future
[18:53] <Akuli> just booted 16.04 from a stick and ran sudo apt remove firefox
[18:53] <Akuli> looks like no other packages at all are going away!
[18:54] <alkisg> So? Warn them about it when they ask "how can I get libreoffice 5 in ubuntu 12.04"?
[18:54] <alkisg> I think sometime in the past you said that you don't have ubuntu-mate-core installed anymore
[18:54] <Akuli> no, this is a live session
[18:54] <Akuli> i mean this one i ran the firefox remove in
[18:55] <alkisg> Does it have ubuntu-mate-core installed?
[18:55] <Akuli> lol not even in repos :D
[18:55] <Akuli> what the heck
[18:55]  * Akuli facepalms
[18:55] <Akuli> this is an unity ubuntu
[18:55] <alkisg> Haha
[18:57] <Akuli> just because you might be interested
[18:57] <Akuli> the fake package http://termbin.com/pobe
[18:57]  * alkisg has made fake packages before... damn depends: instead of recommends: :)
[18:57] <Akuli> i think this is kind of lol http://termbin.com/wyue
[18:57] <Akuli> Version: 10000.0
[18:58] <alkisg> Also, remove and then dpkg -i will have the issue again
[18:59] <alkisg> Only do the dpkg -i part without the removal first... and then apt-get purge --auto-remove
[18:59] <Akuli> oh probably better idea yes
[18:59] <Akuli> i forgot that dpkg -i can upgrade
[19:35] <hadi> hi
[19:35] <Akuli> hi
[19:35] <hadi> i want to install open vpn on ubuntu mate plz help me
[19:36] <Akuli> $ sudo apt install openvpn
[19:36] <Akuli> i guess
[19:37] <hadi> E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11: Resource temporarily unavailable)
[19:37] <hadi> E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it?
[19:37] <hadi> this error!
[19:38] <alkisg> ps aux | grep apt | nc termbin.com 9999
[19:38] <hadi> ?
[19:38] <alkisg> This will tell us what is using apt
[19:39] <hadi> http://termbin.com/dr02
[19:40] <alkisg> sudo kill 3023; sudo apt install openvpn
[19:41] <hadi> E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11: Resource temporarily unavailable)
[19:41] <hadi> E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it?
[19:45] <alkisg> hadi: and the output of ps aux|grep apt|nc termbin.com 9999 now?
[19:45] <alkisg> Wasn't apt killed with the kill command?