[08:51] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[20:44] <ball> I'm starting to think I suck at this game.
[20:47] <daftykins> heya \o which game?
[20:49] <ball> xfreecell
[20:50] <daftykins> hrmm
[20:51]  * zmoylan-pi launches into another game of pixel dungeon...
[20:58]  * ball hasn't seen that
[21:00] <zmoylan-pi> a roguelike game on android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.watabou.pixeldungeon&hl=en
[21:13] <ball> hello marshmn
[21:14] <marshmn> hi
[21:14] <daftykins> \o
[21:14] <marshmn> is this a new channel welcoming service?
[21:15] <daftykins> yep, but the carpet is brown i'm afraid
[21:15] <marshmn> nice
[21:15] <penguin42> yes that's the version 0.98 daftykins welcome bot
[21:19] <marshmn> maybe it will reach 1.0 just in time for the death of IRC
[21:19] <daftykins> woohoo
[21:19] <daftykins> i dunno about that, my robot arm is tired already
[21:22] <marshmn> I have too many different chat applications open all the time
[21:22] <marshmn> but I have to say, IRC is the one I use least these days...
[21:23] <daftykins> there are just too many out there, mmm
[21:23]  * penguin42 has one application that does many protocols
[21:23] <marshmn> does it do Slack & Discord?
[21:23] <ball> penguin42: Is it pidgin?
[21:23] <daftykins> see i don't understand why both those exist
[21:23] <penguin42> ball: Nod
[21:24] <ball> daftykins: NIH Syndrome, probably.
[21:24] <marshmn> daftykins: who knows, but they do
[21:24] <penguin42> daftykins: I understand why something other than irc exists;  there are some things that newer protocols can do
[21:25] <marshmn> they are certainly richer (in UI/UX terms)
[21:25]  * penguin42 has his pidgin doing irc, aim (probably dead now), G hangouts and purple
[21:25] <penguin42> sorry, and Matrix
[21:25] <daftykins> hmm i think you can pin a fair chunk of that on your chosen client :>
[21:25] <zmoylan-pi> the big social news is that ms are shutting down so.cl... imagine having a less successful social netowrk than google... :-P
[21:26] <penguin42> daftykins: I've done some contributions to the purple matrix plugin
[21:26] <ball> zmoylan-pi: I hadn't even heard of that one.
[21:26] <daftykins> i've never heard of that
[21:26] <daftykins> i know libpurple underpins Pidgin but not familiar with matrix
[21:27] <zmoylan-pi> we do seem to have reached peak service were we now only hear about services as they are been shut down
[21:27] <daftykins> i used to use Pidgin on Windows before MSN finally got killed off :D
[21:27] <penguin42> daftykins: see matrix.org; it's a distributed chat protocol
[21:27] <daftykins> eh it's ok, i don't need another one :>
[21:27] <penguin42> daftykins: Fully open
[21:27] <daftykins> text only?
[21:28] <penguin42> daftykins: No, images, video, audio
[21:28] <penguin42> daftykins: (Although the pigin doesn't do the video/audio yet)
[21:28] <penguin42> daftykins: Free clients for everything
[21:28] <daftykins> too many cooks :>
[21:29] <zmoylan-pi> you get a client; you get a client; you get a client
[21:29] <marshmn> don't expect daftykins to like it; he only likes stuff that's stuck in the past
[21:29] <daftykins> :D
[21:30] <zmoylan-pi> piffle.... he uses modern irc!! :-)
[21:30] <daftykins> nah i'm on skype! that's constantly getting updated :)
[21:30] <zmoylan-pi> hasn't touched a bbs in yonks...
[21:30] <daftykins> i never touched a BBS as it goes, skipped that one by
[21:30]  * ball lives on Fidonet
[21:30] <ball> (and IRC)
[21:30] <marshmn> I'm soooo glad that I don't have to run Skype any more
[21:30] <zmoylan-pi> ooooh, i used to be on fidonet
[21:30] <ball> zmoylan-pi: Which zone?
[21:30] <marshmn> well, rarely have to run it anyway
[21:31] <penguin42> daftykins: So specifically the nice things over irc are that you get no problems with multiple clients all logged in (e.g. phone/desktop/etc), you get images inline, and copes well with intermittent connectivity - e.g. bad wifi or switching from wifi to 3g and back
[21:31] <zmoylan-pi> i honestly couldn't tell you as i never used it once for communications... i joined a bbs in dublin and fidonet was part of that... but as i was only person i knew online at the time i didn't need the email
[21:32] <marshmn> one thing I like about Slack/Discord (and others) over IRC is that you can catch up on conversation that happened when you weren't connected
[21:32] <zmoylan-pi> well i use my rasp pi on 24x7 for that
[21:32] <penguin42> marshmn: Right, matrix can do that as well
[21:32] <zmoylan-pi> and someone recently pointed out that news groups did the same thing pre slack
[21:32] <marshmn> yeah, Matrix sounds like a more open version of things like Slack
[21:34] <marshmn> fact is, if you had never used any of these things and you came to the internet for the first time and evaluated them all, you wouldn't pick IRC
[21:34] <marshmn> it's just too outdated compared to the others
[21:35] <marshmn> but
[21:35] <marshmn> the most important thing is the community - where people are
[21:35] <marshmn> and for some communities, like this one, they are still on IRC
[21:35] <marshmn> that's the only reason to keep it
[21:35] <daftykins> you know, as much as i know you're joking i resent the idea i'm doing anything outdated :( just because i don't care for inferior quality!
[21:35] <zmoylan-pi> irc runs very nicely on the dumbphones that i use with a java client... slack will never run on those phones
[21:36] <daftykins> did see talk spotify was going to go lossless though, curious what they're gonna use for that o0
[21:36] <zmoylan-pi> wav :-P
[21:36] <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: i don't think you can put a negative on a modern service for it not supporting antiques - that's simply not any kind of business sense
[21:36] <marshmn> zmoylan-pi: then get modern phone for christsakes
[21:37] <penguin42> marshmn: irc does have some things going for it; it tends to be very resilient on a distributed set of servers, it's also very low bandwidth
[21:37] <marshmn> sure - but the world has moved on
[21:38] <zmoylan-pi> nokia releasing more antiques dominated the news from latest mobile trade show... they are not antiques... they are still useable devices
[21:38] <marshmn> it's not really an antique though is it... it's a modern phone in a case that looks like the old one
[21:38] <marshmn> and also, that was a marketing gimmick
[21:38] <penguin42> marshmn: Yet you still find people running around like headless chickens because 'slack is down'
[21:38] <marshmn> lol
[21:38] <zmoylan-pi> the 3310 is an antique as it won't even run the java irc client i use sadly
[21:39] <zmoylan-pi> the resources slack uses on a desktop seems a little high for what it is from the complaints i read online
[21:39] <marshmn> it's fine, I'm not here to convince you
[21:39] <marshmn> stick with IRC
[21:40] <zmoylan-pi> this is an industry that tries to reinvent a better wheel every few years and rarely succeeds
[21:40] <marshmn> you can all sit in a shed somewhere and pretend that it's the year 1998
[21:40] <marshmn> I really don't care :)
[21:40] <zmoylan-pi> 1988 and my vax runs fine :-D
[21:40] <zmoylan-pi> slack will go away and irc will persist
[21:42] <ball> irc ftw.
[21:42] <zmoylan-pi> in technology very occasionly some things outlast their supposed successors... irc is one of those technologies
[21:43] <marshmn> it's hit the peak I'm afraid
[21:44] <marshmn> only downward from here
[21:44] <marshmn> http://irc.netsplit.de/tmp/networks/stats-freenode-history-uc.png
[21:44]  * ball waves a paw
[21:44] <ball> IRC works for me.
[21:44] <zmoylan-pi> will never hit 0. some group/mob will always find it too useful
[21:44] <marshmn> sure
[21:45] <marshmn> it's had a good run
[21:45] <marshmn> but things move on
[21:45] <marshmn> IRC didn't keep up with the times
[21:45] <zmoylan-pi> for me it passes the muppet test... you have to learn how to set up a client if you really want to use irc and that keeps out the riff raff :-)
[21:46] <penguin42> irc's big problem is it's bad at intermittent connectivity, which with people using phones and tablets more is a pain
[21:47] <zmoylan-pi> i really must configure my rasp pi for connecting to it when i'm out and about on dumbphone... let the pi do the constant connection and scrollback for irc
[21:59] <ball> penguin42: VNC helps with that.
[22:01] <marshmn> lol
[22:01] <penguin42> ball: Using a text protocol over VNC is evil
[22:02]  * penguin42 bounces ball into the 3rd circle of hell for that
[22:02] <marshmn> or just use a protocol that doesn't need all these workarounds :)
[22:05] <ball> penguin42: You could use screen too, if you're a masochist.
[22:06] <penguin42> ball: Well, that's what you should be using for a text protocol - or an irc bouncer
[22:06] <marshmn> or Slack.
[22:06] <penguin42> no, definitely shouldn't be using slack
[22:06] <marshmn> :)
[22:06] <marshmn> depends where your community is
[22:07] <marshmn> Slack, Discord, Gitter
[22:07] <ball> In my case I have some unrelated graphical stuff to run too, so VNC was the right solution.
[22:07] <penguin42> oh in that case I'll move you upto the 2nd level of hell
[22:08] <ball> Thanks! I levelled up! ;-)