[05:55] <andrewlsd> Mornings
[05:56] <andrewlsd> K_K_N: on Fri/Sat you were asking about how to upgrade _only_ the kernel. Check out UKUU via www.makeuseof.com/tag/upgrade-kernel-ukuu-ubuntu/
[05:57] <andrewlsd> I have never used it K_K_N. I just saw it for the first time this weekend.
[05:57]  * andrewlsd goes away again
[05:58] <inetpro> good mornings
[06:04] <inetpro> oh and good evening to superfly also
[06:05] <K_K_N> Thanks andrewlsd
[06:05] <K_K_N> and Morning everybody
[06:05] <inetpro> superfly: at least your clock stays the same when everybody around you has to change theirs
[06:11] <superfly> inetpro: I am so thankful for that!
[06:12] <superfly> time for me to get some sleep
[06:14] <K_K_N> does upgrading the Kernal impact on the LTS of the OS, meaning will the long term support no longer apply so I might as well have installed the latest version anyway?
[06:16] <inetpro> K_K_N: I don't understand your question
[06:17] <inetpro> it's Monday and...
[06:17]  * inetpro has not had coffee yet
[06:17] <K_K_N> I have ubuntu 16.04 LTS yeah
[06:17] <K_K_N> I have that because of it being LTS
[06:18] <inetpro> apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
[06:18] <K_K_N> but now if I change the kernal will the regular updates for that specific version no longer work?
[06:18] <K_K_N> or does it make the Long Term Support null & void?
[06:18] <inetpro> why not just do normal updates?
[06:18] <K_K_N> yeah I do
[06:18] <nsnzero> morning all
[06:19] <K_K_N> but I was just curious
[06:19] <inetpro> K_K_N: if you do then you should be on Ubuntu 16.04.2 LTS now
[06:20] <K_K_N> yes I am
[06:20] <inetpro> how were you planning to do just the kernel upgrades?
[06:21] <K_K_N> was not really planning on doing that was going to try that to see if it resolves some issues but since doing whatever you guys advised not sure what it was but the issue seems to be resolved
[06:22] <K_K_N> but now since andrew sent a msg about upgrading kernal I was just wondering if that effects the LTS part of the OS
[06:23] <nsnzero> K_K_N: you can upgrade with the  16.04 hwe kernel 
[06:25] <nsnzero> linux-image-generic-hwe-16.04
[06:25] <inetpro> if you want bleeding edge why not just go to arch https://www.archlinux.org/ ?
[06:26] <inetpro> or if that is too extreme then just go to a non-LTS 16.10 
[06:32] <paddatrapper> morning everyone
[06:32] <nsnzero> morning paddatrapper 
[06:33] <paddatrapper> hi nsnzero. How goes it?
[06:34]  * K_K_N is not sure if his question is being understood
[06:34] <K_K_N> oh well its not urgent just curious
[06:35] <K_K_N> so I guess not advised if you want to benefit from LTS
[06:35] <nsnzero> kernel upgrades never gave me a problem - i always get the latest
[06:36]  * inetpro guessing, if you want LTS features then you stick with standard update processes
[06:37] <K_K_N> ok cool thanks nsnzero and inetpro
[06:39] <inetpro> K_K_N: http://askubuntu.com/questions/16366/whats-the-difference-between-a-long-term-support-release-and-a-normal-release
[06:40] <nsnzero> you can always try out the kernel and remove it if it not up to standard - but research especially if you need lts  
[06:42] <nsnzero> i use the latest i can get - if it breaks i just revert back to the working state
[06:45] <K_K_N> thanks inetpro, that is the reason why I have an LTS release
[06:45] <chesedo> morning all
[06:46] <K_K_N> but I am cool with the OS as is only  reason for doing anything more than the standard is if I have an issue
[06:47]  * chesedo always understood lts as some guarentee of security and and software (stable) updates... a manual kernel update will therefore not affect this...
[06:47]  * inetpro prefers to stick with LTS
[06:47] <inetpro> others are quite happy with regular updates of non-LTS releases
[06:48] <inetpro> and then there are those who even go with the rolling release of debian SID
[06:48] <inetpro> s/SID/Sid/
[06:49] <K_K_N> I use my laptop for both personal and work related use so preferably it needs to be as stable as can be if it was for personal use only then I would take the latest every single time
[06:49] <K_K_N> hehe
[06:49] <inetpro> Sid also called Debian Unstable but that does not mean that it is not stable
[06:51] <nsnzero> you can try out stuff in a vm as well
[06:51] <K_K_N> but because its used for both I also have to have Windows installed :(
[06:53] <nsnzero> K_K_N: the vm run as a program/app - its like a separate computer in your laptop 
[06:54] <nsnzero> i run windows in  vm - for stuff that as no linux alternatives like msaccess
[06:55] <K_K_N> nsnzero, yep I use that but I do not have a licensed copy of Windows
[06:55] <K_K_N> so the version that came with this laptop is what I have
[06:55] <K_K_N> so I just dual boot it
[06:56] <K_K_N> I hardly ever use and Win related stuff but I have it there just in case
[06:56] <inetpro> dual booting is way too disruptive IMHO
[06:57] <inetpro> if I ever need Windows I just login remotely with KRDC/rdesktop
[06:58] <K_K_N> nsnzero, which virtual machine software you recommend?
[07:01] <nsnzero> i am using virtual box and vmware both are good - free versions dont have all the features 
[07:02] <nsnzero> i suggest some reading to check which will suit your needs 
[07:24] <inetpro> KVM ftw https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KVM
[07:29] <inetpro> I would say virtualbox is a nice start for beginners but recommend KVM for the long run
[07:36] <Kilos> morning all, i will be offline while using sim from modem to fight with cellc and voda
[07:36] <Kilos> you all be good
[07:36] <Kilos> that includes you ine
[07:36] <Kilos> inetpro 
[07:36] <Kilos> Maaz watch them
[07:36] <Maaz> oh Kilos I will watch them no problem, but you better be back soon!
[07:36] <Kilos> Maaz ty
[07:36] <Maaz> You are welcome Kilos
[07:42] <paddatrapper> This is going to be interesting. My lecturer is going to try step 200 students through installing 16.10 in a VM tomorrow in 45 minutes 
[07:44] <nsnzero> 40 minutes to download the exported appliance and 5 minutes to install it ?
[07:45] <paddatrapper> nsnzero: well the ideal is that they download beforehand, but most likely yes
[07:52] <inetpro> paddatrapper: should be a real simple exercise if he has a local repository
[07:54] <inetpro> talking of which, what is the recommended method of creating a local repository these days?
[08:09] <nsnzero> apt-mirror inetpro 
[08:09] <inetpro> nsnzero: you have a local mirror?
[08:09] <inetpro> wb Kilos
[08:10] <nsnzero> apt-mirror will mirror any repository locally - its downloads the entire repository 
[08:11] <nsnzero> i dont have the bandwidth nor the time inetpro - plus you have to update it regularly 
[08:11] <inetpro> hence why I'm asking
[08:11] <Kilos> ty inetpro lets hope they get something sorted
[08:12] <nsnzero> useful in business installations - where you can make local copies on the programs on the server 
[08:12] <inetpro> but I guess for a university there should be enough reason to keep things local
[08:14] <paddatrapper> inetpro: uct hosts a public mirror
[08:14] <inetpro> I wish Telkom and other service providers would introduce free local bandwidth for mobile data
[08:14] <inetpro> paddatrapper: nice!
[08:15] <paddatrapper> Free local mobile data would be awesome! 
[08:25] <inetpro> chips, we have a Researcher- on board :-)
[08:25] <inetpro> hi Researcher-
[08:29]  * Kilos agrees on the free data
[08:29] <Kilos> hi paddatrapper nsnzero 
[08:30] <paddatrapper> Hi Kilos
[08:37] <Kilos> hi propagandhi 
[08:43] <nsnzero> hi Kilos 
[09:22] <ebusuku> Hi guys
[09:22] <inetpro> welcome bac ebusuku
[09:22] <inetpro> back as well
[09:23] <ebusuku> hi inetpro
[09:23] <inetpro> where's emini?
[09:23] <ebusuku> does anybody here use lxc,lxd
[09:25] <ebusuku> I'm looking to try out linux containers, not docker containers and was wondering, should each container have its own instance of postgresql or share postgresql 
[09:25] <Kilos> hi ebusuku 
[09:25] <ebusuku> amongst the containers
[09:25] <ebusuku> hi kilos
[09:34] <inetpro> andrewlsd: could you perhaps answer that for ebusuku
[09:35] <inetpro> am not sure there's a simple answer to that
[09:35] <inetpro> probably depends 
[09:36] <inetpro> ebusuku: if superfly was still awake I'm sure he would be able to answer that as well
[09:36] <inetpro> or theblazehen, who unfortunately is not here right now
[09:37] <inetpro> ebusuku: in other words, just hang around and I'm sure you'll get your answer sooner or later
[09:37] <andrewlsd> hey peeps
[09:37] <andrewlsd> ebusuku:  depends on what you are trying to do with it.
[09:38] <andrewlsd> ebusuku: if you want to be able to export/backup "entire" containerized application set, then putting having the equivalent of a LAMP container would make that simpler.  
[09:39] <andrewlsd> ebusuku: but if you want to move towards _microservices_ then you'd want one DB container and several "app" containers that talk to the DB container.
[09:40] <andrewlsd> if end-users need access to postgres, then giving each set of end-users their own postgresql server would provide safety and security (ie, no way for one set to drop db of another set of users)
[09:40]  * andrewlsd and theblazehen were working most of the weekend.
[09:41] <MaNI> giving each user their own database inside the same server, with correct permissions would provide the same though - with the caveat that there is room for error and/or if any exploits surface they could be used
[09:41] <andrewlsd> ebusuku: both andrewlsd and theblazehen use LXD. You can also head over to #lxcontainers on this (freenode) network
[09:42] <MaNI> one postgres server on the otherhand is far more resource efficient. So it depends very much on what you are doing.
[09:43] <andrewlsd> inetpro: I also been having issue with Slack causing Quassel to Segfault. in my case the core has stayed up, but my client crashes. I have disconnected from Slack in the meantime.  There are open issues  for  Quassel, several of which have been resolved in newer releases than what I am running.  However, Slack may well have made a (small) API change (and will continue to do so) which could break stuff in future.
[09:44] <inetpro> thanks for that andrewlsd, I also just disconnected from slack for now and open it separately for other functions anyway
[09:44] <andrewlsd> MaNI: yip, errror and or exploits.... if ebusuku is not 100% sure of quality of code that will be used, then safer to isolate each application stack in its own container (or give each app stack a set of containers, still means 1 DB container per stack)
[09:45] <andrewlsd> another benefit of separate containers is that ebusuku could have scheduled change to upgrade postgres for a single app-stack user/client without needing to take the DB down for all clients.
[09:46] <MaNI> Well as with all security there are various trade off levels, so it becomes a question of just how sensitive the data involved is and what risk level is acceptable, answering that is always the tricky part I guess
[09:46] <andrewlsd> further stuff might include replicating DB from each containerized db to one "replica" DB container shared by all.
[09:46] <andrewlsd> But yeah, your point MaNI about trade-offs is absolutely correct.
[09:47] <andrewlsd> either way ebusuku *make backups!* and then *regularily* *test backups*
[09:47] <ebusuku> hmmmmm
[09:48]  * andrewlsd has not played with openstack lxd plugins. so not sure how that would affect the "architecture" ebusuku has in mind.
[09:48] <andrewlsd> ebusuku: what are you trying to achieve with LXD?
[09:48] <ebusuku> ok, I've got a couple of django applications that i'd like to run
[09:49] <ebusuku> currently its just the traditional setup django, gunicorn, nginx, postgresql
[09:50] <ebusuku> I've also got a web application in go as well
[09:50] <ebusuku> So i thought i could try out lxd and see how managing ti would be
[09:52] <andrewlsd> ebusuku: depending _how big_ your env is going to be, and whether devs need CI/CD stuff, build automation, etc.....  you may want to look at a xPAAS option like OpenShift.
[09:52] <andrewlsd> if not large, then LXD should be excellent.
[09:52] <ebusuku> It just seems a bit inefficient to have each container to have its own pg instance
[09:52] <andrewlsd> LXD use case: it behaves like a VM, with lower overhead.
[09:53] <andrewlsd> so whatever you would have used a VM for, use LXD.
[09:53] <andrewlsd> or, _should be able to_ use LXD instead
[09:53] <ebusuku> yeah, thats why in looking into lxd and not docker
[09:54] <andrewlsd> ebusuku: pro stuff about LXD. Make sure you read stgraber's blog series.
[09:54] <andrewlsd> ebusuku: LXD supports live migration of containers (assume hosts are pretty much "next to" each other)
[09:54] <ebusuku> I've been reading up on that, good stuff
[09:55] <andrewlsd> ebusuku: as long as you have 'image' vs 'running container' sorted out in your head you should be good.
[09:56] <andrewlsd> ebusuku: regarding 'inefficient to have ... own pg instance', possibly true, but LXD has lower overhead than traditional full VM, so you're saving there. Also MaNI's point about security trade-offs apply.
[09:57] <ebusuku> hmmm
[09:57] <andrewlsd> ebusuku: this is very much an _architectural_ decision too.  consider live-migrating implications if all applications share 1 db container.  bearing in mind that LXD does not do load-balancing for you. 
[09:58] <andrewlsd> otherwise you'll need _haproxy_ instances too. with at least one on each host configured to balance to either side.
[09:58] <andrewlsd> ... this started out as such a simple question ebusuku ;-)
[09:58] <ebusuku> lol
[09:58] <andrewlsd> the short answer LXD is great :-)
[09:59]  * andrewlsd goes away again
[10:00] <andrewlsd> btw ebusuku if you feel like being blown away, check out JuJu + Maas + LXD
[10:00]  * andrewlsd ducks away for real
[10:01] <Kilos> hehe well done guys
[10:03] <ebusuku> heh, I still dont know what JuJu is, I've been reading, watching but wtf
[10:05] <ebusuku> It would be nice if they had an indepth example
[10:15] <andrewlsd> :-) Kilos
[10:15]  * andrewlsd lurks
[11:42] <Kilos> bot
[11:42] <Kilos> hmm...
[11:43] <Kilos> Maaz coffee on
[11:43]  * Maaz washes some mugs
[11:47] <Maaz> Coffee's ready for Kilos!
[11:48] <Kilos> Maaz ty
[11:48] <Maaz> You are welcome Kilos
[11:48] <Kilos> Maaz botsnack
[11:48] <Maaz> YAY someone cares about me too!
[11:51] <nsnzero> Kilos: 
[11:52] <Kilos> yes nsnzero 
[11:52] <FusionSparc> Hey kilos, you doing well?
[11:52] <Kilos> yeah im ok ty FusionSparc and you?
[11:52] <nsnzero> i am waiting for the coffee pot 
[11:52] <Kilos> haha
[11:53] <FusionSparc> Good as well, haven't been on irc for a while.
[11:53] <Kilos> yes you naughty
[11:53] <Kilos> even the fly comes here daily from the states
[11:54] <FusionSparc> Hehe, early SA times probably.
[11:54] <Kilos> yes and late
[11:54] <Kilos> he says night when we login
[11:55] <FusionSparc> Lol, discussions are probably brief then.
[12:32] <nsnzero> have a good afternoon everyone
[13:29]  * andrewlsd waves good by to nsnzero
[13:29]  * andrewlsd waves belatedly
[17:23] <inetpro> good evening
[17:28] <andrewlsd> evening inetpro 
[17:46] <nsnzero> evening all
[19:04] <Kilos> i go sleep. this is murder of the first degree http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/6127268478
[19:04] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[19:04] <nsnzero> night kilos