| Kilos | evening superfly | 05:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Kilos | morning za | 05:00 |
| andrewlsd | Morning za | 05:39 |
| andrewlsd | Morning Kilos | 05:39 |
| andrewlsd | Night-night superfly | 05:39 |
| nsnzero | morning all | 05:45 |
| andrewlsd | \o nsnzero | 05:51 |
| andrewlsd | were you nasanzero last night? | 05:51 |
| nsnzero | hi andrewlsd | 05:51 |
| nsnzero | yes andrewlsd | 05:51 |
| magellanic | greets | 05:54 |
| nsnzero | hi magellanic | 05:54 |
| andrewlsd | o/ magellanic | 06:04 |
| * andrewlsd will probably not be _here_ much today. Meetings. | 06:04 | |
| Kilos | hi andrewlsd nsnzero and other za peeps | 06:11 |
| Kilos | hi magellanic too | 06:11 |
| inetpro | goeiemore almal | 06:23 |
| nsnzero | more inetpro | 06:26 |
| Kilos | lo pro | 06:38 |
| Kilos | cellc called and they sending a technician out to see what the prob is | 06:38 |
| Kilos | so heres hoping | 06:39 |
| nsnzero | morning Kilos | 06:46 |
| paddatrapper | morning Kilos andrewlsd nsnzero magellanic inetpro | 06:51 |
| Kilos | hi paddatrapper | 06:51 |
| Kilos | hi g0d355__ | 06:52 |
| Kilos | hmm... lmao guy | 06:52 |
| * nsnzero is thinking of switching to quassel | 07:03 | |
| andrewlsd | hi paddatrapper | 07:04 |
| paddatrapper | so according to my lecturer cat simple prints a file to the screen... | 07:10 |
| chesedo | morning all | 07:15 |
| chesedo | paddatrapper: what else can it do? | 07:16 |
| paddatrapper | chesedo: concatinate files, format the resulting output. and the example he's using doesn't require cat at all... cat file.txt | sort | uniq | 07:17 |
| paddatrapper | could just be sort file.txt | uniq | 07:18 |
| chesedo | oh i see ty paddatrapper | 07:19 |
| * chesedo reading cat's man page | 07:20 | |
| paddatrapper | chesedo: it is a nice and sort man page too :) | 07:23 |
| nsnzero | most linux app do 1 thing and only 1 thing and do it well - its the unix philosophy | 07:27 |
| Kilos | hi chesedo | 07:27 |
| nsnzero | morning chesedo | 07:29 |
| MaNI | that used to be true, the unix era is over though, over the last decade people seem to have forgotten that philosophy more and more | 07:29 |
| nsnzero | you use quassel ? | 07:29 |
| nsnzero | morning mani | 07:29 |
| andrewlsd | nsnzero: theblazehen and andrewlsd use Quassel with a quassel-core. | 07:30 |
| andrewlsd | Hi g0d355__ didn't notice you there earlier. | 07:31 |
| theblazehen | morning all | 07:32 |
| paddatrapper | nsnzero: systemd? :P | 07:33 |
| Kilos | not keen on that nick | 07:33 |
| Kilos | who knows bot trigger commands | 07:34 |
| Kilos | bot | 07:34 |
| Kilos | ! | 07:34 |
| nsnzero | i dont know much about the init system paddatrapper - but i do know that systemd wasnt accepted with open arms | 07:42 |
| paddatrapper | nsnzero: yeah, it receives much hate for not following the unix philosophy | 07:46 |
| Kilos | Maaz ping 41.57.103.171 | 07:49 |
| Maaz | Kilos: 5 packets transmitted, 5 received, 0% packet loss, time 4006ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 185.314/185.448/185.754/0.567 ms | 07:49 |
| theblazehen | Yeah. Dunno why people use GNU though, if they complain about stuff not following the unix philosophy, Rather use a BSD then | 07:49 |
| andrewlsd | g0d355__: are you a bot? | 07:53 |
| Kilos | there are bot triggers but only clever peeps remember them | 07:54 |
| MaNI | you make it sound like it's such an easy choice "oh a few parts of the system are no longer following a philosophy I like, let me completely uproot all of my stuff, disrupt my entire life and move to a new OS that can't do half the things I need it to do" | 07:56 |
| MaNI | it's really not that simple | 07:56 |
| Kilos | propagandhi is another one i think | 07:56 |
| andrewlsd | you can check out #botmonitoring | 07:56 |
| MaNI | completely valid for people to keep using 'GNU' while also complaining about aspects of it | 07:56 |
| Kilos | goes straight to that one | 07:57 |
| Kilos | hmm | 07:57 |
| Kilos | ... | 07:57 |
| Kilos | inetpro kill it | 07:57 |
| Kilos | doesnt accept die command like ibid | 08:00 |
| nsnzero | there is more bot traffic on the net than actual human traffice now days - this is the beginning of skynet | 08:02 |
| Kilos | and arnie isnt here | 08:03 |
| theblazehen | MaNI It's more the fact that I hear more people complaining about systemd than GNU, where the reason that they're complaining about systemd also applies to GNU | 08:03 |
| MaNI | [propagandhi] (~propagand@41.57.103.171): Jason Rogena - https://nairobilug.or.ke/author/jason-rogena.html - IP also matches kenya. Is it normal for bots to take on real identities? Seems more likely it's just a user who isn't currently active | 08:05 |
| Kilos | oh maybe there with the symmetria crowd | 08:06 |
| nsnzero | systemd uses binary logs vs text logs | 08:14 |
| === theblazehen2 is now known as theblazehen | ||
| theblazehen | nsnzero: Any reason why you don't like that? You can still do your greppying / sedding etc by piping journalctl | 08:17 |
| paddatrapper | theblazehen: it requires systemd to be installed to read them, but even that is hardly a concern now as most recent distros are running it by default | 08:18 |
| nsnzero | theblazehen: no its no problem for me - i starting using linux when systemd was the default init system | 08:19 |
| MaNI | the fact that they corrupt easier is another common complaint I believe | 08:20 |
| MaNI | and also just a general disgust that it insists on handling something it shouldn't - there is already a system log for logging, there is a long history of people being able to choose the system log app that suits them, if they want binary logs they can choose a binary system log app, why can't it use that? etc. | 08:21 |
| paddatrapper | MaNI: I'm actually pretty impressed as to how robust it is for a binary log. | 08:22 |
| MaNI | https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1y6q0l/systemds_binary_logs_and_corruption/ < that guy isn't, though granted it was 3 years ago. | 08:23 |
| MaNI | anyway, just pointing out some of the problems people have with it | 08:23 |
| MaNI | when lots of people complain there are usually some valid core reasons | 08:23 |
| * andrewlsd is going to be disconnected fora while. migrating quassel-core to a new server | 08:25 | |
| paddatrapper | I certainly agree that the complaints are valid, but feels like they're fighting a losing battle | 08:26 |
| MaNI | For now maybe, when the pendulum swings the other way who knows :) | 08:28 |
| chesedo | nsnzero: inetpro superfly and myself also uses quassel-core | 08:29 |
| Kilos | as long as it keeps my pc working im happy | 08:29 |
| chesedo | and i thinks paddatrapper too | 08:29 |
| chesedo | MaNI: the unix philosophy seems to be making a come-back though | 08:30 |
| paddatrapper | chesedo: I use weechat | 08:30 |
| paddatrapper | It's just sitting on a VPS running 24/7 | 08:30 |
| * chesedo no longer thinks | 08:30 | |
| MaNI | I don't even have a personal opinion on systemd yet, my main box still runs perfectly happily without it and I plan to keep it that way as long as possible, I've no compelling reason to switch to it on my gentoo box as long as gentoo keep offering me the option of not switching to it | 08:30 |
| MaNI | and just like kilos - my pc keeps working ;) | 08:31 |
| Kilos | lol | 08:31 |
| chesedo | lol | 08:31 |
| Kilos | thats what is most important | 08:31 |
| paddatrapper | I just use it because it's default. I quite like the way units are written, but if Debian did not have it default, I wouldn | 08:31 |
| theblazehen | MaNI: What's your uptime? | 08:31 |
| paddatrapper | wouldn't install it. Not very phased either way | 08:32 |
| MaNI | my uptime isn't great - 14 days - my mother in law tripped the power while I was overseas, hehe | 08:33 |
| MaNI | but this is a desktop/development machine so uptime isn't really a big thing | 08:33 |
| Kilos | haha | 08:33 |
| theblazehen | Heh, alright. Mine not too great either, but having a quassel core in a lxd container means you can reboot a server without disconnecting from irc | 08:33 |
| MaNI | this gentoo install is 13 years old, though the hardware in the machine has changed several times during that time period, and my uprecord is 149 days - we have various ubuntu/debian servers with uptime measured in years though | 08:36 |
| MaNI | but servers just sit there running one or two programs with very little change, while development machines have to take constant abuse :p | 08:36 |
| paddatrapper | MaNI: Don't you every apply kernel updates? | 08:37 |
| paddatrapper | s/every/ever | 08:38 |
| paddatrapper | Though looking at the server I'm running weechat on, it has 134 days uptime... | 08:38 |
| MaNI | on this box, relatively frequently, on servers when necessary | 08:39 |
| nsnzero | brb | 09:25 |
| theblazehen | https://linx.li/mvzc9gvx.txt Guess I gotta upgrade my storage then | 09:35 |
| theblazehen | I guess 32 gigabit fiber channel could work | 09:37 |
| theblazehen | Ah wait. Double the speed. Either 128 gbit fiber channel, or perhaps AoE / iSCSI or something could work on 40 gbit ethernet | 09:38 |
| theblazehen | Then I need storage that can deliver 37 gbit/s | 09:38 |
| theblazehen | 4.62 GB/s | 09:39 |
| * theblazehen wonders how much 1 TiB of DDR3 would cost | 09:39 | |
| theblazehen | Wait, no. Would require networking for each box then | 09:39 |
| theblazehen | Ah, I'll just deal with it. Calculating 100 billion digits of pi | 09:51 |
| theblazehen | Or lets make it 15 billion. Then I can do it all in ram | 09:53 |
| theblazehen | Eh, scratch that. Made server unbearably slow. Never knew the impact of accessing memory across NUMA nodes were that severe... `dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null bs=1G` with calculation gives 516 MB/s read, without 6.6 GB/s | 10:14 |
| nsnzero | does ubuntu server use a another type of firewall - or does ufw work ? | 11:04 |
| theblazehen | nsnzero: Afaik ufw should work, but ufw is just a fancy iptables wrapper | 11:07 |
| nsnzero | thanks theblazehen | 11:25 |
| nsnzero | now i wonder if telkom blocks access to port 22 | 11:37 |
| nsnzero | theblazehen: on system with dual ethernet ports does ufw configure both interfaces ? | 11:39 |
| theblazehen | nsnzero: I dunno :/ Check what iptables rule it creates | 11:51 |
| nsnzero | have a good afternoon everyone | 12:20 |
| MaNI | which sites do you guys think are best to advertise on to find people for tech positions in za these days? | 12:57 |
| thatgraemeguy | I guess its a good sign that I can say for the first time in a long time... "I have NO clue" | 13:02 |
| thatgraemeguy | 3.5 years here now and haven't the foggiest idea which job sites are popular these days | 13:03 |
| thatgraemeguy | haven't the need, at all | 13:03 |
| MaNI | you're talking from an employee perspective I guess - rather than an employer one | 13:03 |
| MaNI | I mean I've had the same job for 11 years thats why I have to ask for external insight here, I also have no idea | 13:04 |
| thatgraemeguy | surely they're the same thing, would an employer want to advertise on the sites considered useless by potential candidates? | 13:04 |
| MaNI | yeah they are the same of course IMO in that regard, I meant regarding your remark that you don't need to know | 13:05 |
| thatgraemeguy | in fact my current job I found via the CLUG-work mailing list, and my previous job, AT A JOB WEBSITE, I found via a recruiter randomly matching me to the requirements | 13:06 |
| MaNI | I need to hire at least one new person, so I do sadly need to know :p | 13:06 |
| thatgraemeguy | so I guess my answer is that from my perspective job sites are all equally irrelevant | 13:06 |
| thatgraemeguy | my experience is not representative of course ;-) | 13:06 |
| MaNI | I found mine on mybroadband, but only because somebody on IRC showed it to me, it definitely wasn't the main place I was looking for jobs | 13:06 |
| MaNI | so also probably not representative of where the best place is, and also 11 years out of date | 13:07 |
| thatgraemeguy | what is the position | 13:07 |
| thatgraemeguy | and based where | 13:07 |
| MaNI | I'm still deciding on the exact position, depends what I can find I guess :/ We are a C++ development company, but we also do a bunch of Lua, PHP web dev, andoid, iOS. Ideally we need a PHP developer who is possibly interested in also learning to do some C++, or a C++ developer who doesn't mind doing some PHP and Lua. | 13:09 |
| MaNI | Company is in Gordons Bay. | 13:10 |
| thatgraemeguy | you can try the clug-work list | 13:10 |
| MaNI | anyone used offerzen before? | 13:26 |
| thatgraemeguy | not used it but it seems to be the new hotness | 13:27 |
| vulcan | They're pretty awesome MaNi | 13:28 |
| MaNI | what do you like about them, and are you talking from an employee or employer perspective? | 13:28 |
| vulcan | More from an employee, from an employer perspective they do a ton of work in clearing through all the crap applicants for you | 13:31 |
| vulcan | But it is a very different model to normal recruitment places | 13:32 |
| vulcan | Still the best way imo though is word of mouth via communities | 13:32 |
| vulcan | Mani, just so happens that I'm unemployed :D What kindof PHP work :P | 13:33 |
| vulcan | Sidenote - I also really like how OZ have a presence in ZATech. Some really cool people there who care less about their own commission and more about the people (at least it seems that way) | 13:33 |
| MaNI | http://longman-hat.co.za/?r=63 < things like the language portal shown there | 13:35 |
| MaNI | on the PHP side | 13:35 |
| MaNI | though possibly other stuff thats quite different as well - we have some quite varied work at times. Though if we go for a PHP person we would probably want someone who is interested/capable in trying out some of the C++ and other development as well - not sure if theres room for someone who just does PHP and nothing else. Though honestly I need to think about it a bit more, hehe | 13:38 |
| thatgraemeguy | login over plain HTTP? | 13:40 |
| thatgraemeguy | in 2017? | 13:40 |
| thatgraemeguy | scandalous! | 13:40 |
| thatgraemeguy | :-p | 13:40 |
| vulcan | :D | 13:41 |
| MaNI | that part of the site is not controlled by us - just for the record | 13:41 |
| thatgraemeguy | I want solutions, not excuses! | 13:42 |
| thatgraemeguy | :D | 13:42 |
| MaNI | pfft, anyway | 13:42 |
| * andrewlsd is back :-) | 13:43 | |
| vulcan | But yeah MaNI. I find people will generally go with something they hear first. Then something like OZ. Normal recruitment agencies spamming everyone get's far more dirt than diamonds, and often misses out of all the decent devs who don't want anything to do with that style of recruitment. | 13:44 |
| vulcan | There was a huge amount of chatter with regards to this in ZATech #jobposting-discussion. Also a fair amount in #offerzen | 13:45 |
| vulcan | Things I'd recommend: Give an incenetive for current employees to get their friends in etc. At my old job we had a 5k hiring bonus, and another 5k if they stayed after the 3 month probation. Second to that I'd recommend using OfferZen (y) | 13:46 |
| MaNI | okay, thanks for the data point | 13:49 |
| vulcan | :) Posting something in ZATech #jobpostings or #freelancing is also a super easy way to get decent people. If you get anyone keen that is :) | 13:52 |
| MaNI | assuming any of them want to live in the helderberg :p | 14:00 |
| chesedo | MaNI: you know that we will be having a section for for open positions in mini meeting tonight? | 14:01 |
| MaNI | no I didn't, but I anyway am not quite ready yet at that point, I still need to discuss what exactly we want internally and try write the jobs specs etc., at the moment just trying to do some "market research", thanks though | 14:03 |
| Kilos | big storm brewing here | 15:55 |
| === MaNL is now known as MaNI | ||
| nsnzero | evening all | 17:36 |
| theblazehen | hi all | 18:20 |
| nsnzero | hi theblazehen | 18:22 |
| chesedo | evening nsnzero theblazehen | 18:22 |
| theblazehen | Hi nsnzero, chesedo | 18:23 |
| nsnzero | hi there chesedo | 18:23 |
| chesedo | theblazehen: are you ready? | 18:24 |
| theblazehen | chesedo: Eh, still need to find some things :/ Doesn't seem like too much interesting has been happening very recently, and been quite busy | 18:25 |
| chesedo | Maaz: announce Mini meeting starts in 10 minutes | 18:25 |
| Maaz | Hear ye, hear ye! Mini meeting starts in 10 minutes | 18:25 |
| chesedo | theblazehen: np, you can just share anything interesting that you may have read about in the last while | 18:26 |
| theblazehen | Alright. I got some stuff then I guess | 18:26 |
| chesedo | others can pitch in too maybe... | 18:26 |
| chesedo | theblazehen: ~5 items is good... unless if you more | 18:27 |
| theblazehen | chesedo: alright, cool | 18:27 |
| chesedo | Maaz: start meeting about Ubuntu Mini Meeting - March 2017 | 18:30 |
| * Maaz gets out his memo-pad and cracks his knuckles | 18:30 | |
| chesedo | Welcome all and welcome to the first mini meeting | 18:31 |
| chesedo | feel free to introduce yourself to maaz using 'Maaz: I am <first last name>' | 18:31 |
| chesedo | Maaz: I am Pieter Engelbrecht | 18:31 |
| Maaz | chesedo: Yessir | 18:31 |
| chesedo | We do not have an official agenda, so there is none to review... | 18:32 |
| theblazehen | Maaz I am Jeandre Le Roux | 18:32 |
| Maaz | theblazehen: Righto | 18:32 |
| chesedo | But our three topics are "Latest and greatest news", "Local openings" and "Education Project" | 18:32 |
| chesedo | Maaz: topic Latest and Greatest news | 18:33 |
| Maaz | Current Topic: Latest and Greatest news | 18:33 |
| chesedo | theblazehen: over to you | 18:33 |
| theblazehen | Alright, I don't know about the _latest_ news, but some pretty cool things I found (and some news) | 18:34 |
| nsnzero | Maaz:i am nasan zero | 18:34 |
| Maaz | nsnzero: Yessir | 18:34 |
| theblazehen | https://blog.exploitee.rs/2017/hacking_wd_mycloud/ was hacked, so if you're running a WD cloud NAS patch it or something | 18:34 |
| theblazehen | I found https://www.cronweekly.com/ which is a weekly newsletter of interesting stuff | 18:35 |
| theblazehen | http://www.linusakesson.net/programming/tty/ if you ever wanted to know how terminals barely work | 18:35 |
| theblazehen | And, really old school, but really impressive: https://trixter.oldskool.org/2015/04/07/8088-mph-we-break-all-your-emulators/. Worth following the links as well | 18:36 |
| theblazehen | Yeah, that's pretty much it | 18:36 |
| theblazehen | http://rentes.github.io/unix/utilities/2015/07/27/moreutils-package/ some great tools | 18:36 |
| chesedo | great thanks theblazehen | 18:36 |
| chesedo | Maaz: topic Local Openings | 18:37 |
| Maaz | Current Topic: Local Openings | 18:37 |
| chesedo | If any knows of any local openings then please share... | 18:37 |
| chesedo | or those at your work place | 18:37 |
| theblazehen | http://www.lsd.co.za/careers some positions open here | 18:38 |
| chesedo | for the record they are: | 18:39 |
| chesedo | - Senior Linux Administrator -> http://www.lsd.co.za/senior-linux-administrator--linux-archi | 18:39 |
| chesedo | DBA Guru -> http://www.lsd.co.za/dba-guru | 18:39 |
| theblazehen | Right. Thanks chesedo for posting them | 18:39 |
| chesedo | Senior JAVA Developer with Middleware Experience -> http://www.lsd.co.za/senior-java-developer-with-middleware-ex | 18:39 |
| chesedo | Java Middleware Magician ->http://www.lsd.co.za/java-middleware-magician | 18:40 |
| chesedo | and thanks for sharing theblazehen | 18:40 |
| chesedo | Maaz: topic Education Project | 18:40 |
| Maaz | Current Topic: Education Project | 18:40 |
| chesedo | my update here would be the same as yesterday... | 18:41 |
| * chesedo had a hectic day so have not looked at getting the sass issue solved yet... | 18:41 | |
| chesedo | williamk: do you have a specific update? | 18:42 |
| chesedo | or maybe found another software to consider? | 18:42 |
| chesedo | also my 2 cents for only office, it looks great too but might be more of a general office suite... | 18:43 |
| williamk | Hi Chesedo, same as yesterday, Booktype, Pubsweet or OnlyOffice | 18:43 |
| chesedo | although it has project planning build in | 18:43 |
| williamk | Only Office, from what I read can do collab editing | 18:43 |
| chesedo | williamk: and that... | 18:43 |
| chesedo | williamk: i guess our next step is to try and get an instance of each up to test which will work best? | 18:44 |
| williamk | https://helpcenter.onlyoffice.com/onlyoffice-editors/onlyoffice-document-editor/helpfulhints/collaborativeediting.aspx | 18:45 |
| chesedo | wow, quite powerful | 18:46 |
| chesedo | oh, chat and comments are only features of the paid version... | 18:48 |
| chesedo | any else anyone wants to add? | 18:48 |
| williamk | Pubsweet is still being worked on, don't know when final release will happen https://gitlab.coko.foundation/pubsweet/pubsweet | 18:49 |
| chesedo | williamk: yip, thu it looks promising | 18:50 |
| chesedo | it is the one that i am having sass issue with currently... | 18:50 |
| chesedo | and for booktype, i have to figure why it is not serving css and js files... | 18:50 |
| williamk | I have installed Booktype locally ( access with IP, but could not get the export to PDF working | 18:51 |
| williamk | could not get Pubsweet working | 18:52 |
| chesedo | oh yeah, that too | 18:52 |
| * chesedo hopes that won't be a big issue on his side too... | 18:52 | |
| chesedo | hmm... that seems to be all then... | 18:53 |
| chesedo | thank you all for joining... | 18:54 |
| chesedo | Maaz: end meeting | 18:54 |
| Maaz | Meeting Ended | 18:54 |
| Maaz | Minutes available at json: http://maaz.mene.za.net/logs/meetings/freenode-%23ubuntu-za/2017-03-15-18-30-42.json :: txt: http://maaz.mene.za.net/logs/meetings/freenode-%23ubuntu-za/2017-03-15-18-30-42.txt :: html: http://maaz.mene.za.net/logs/meetings/freenode-%23ubuntu-za/2017-03-15-18-30-42.html | 18:54 |
| williamk | I got OnlyOffice community server and Document server installed, but could not get them to link together, will try again sometime | 18:54 |
| chesedo | i see pubsweet will also need some linking | 18:55 |
| nsnzero | is this the weekly meetings chesedo ? | 18:55 |
| chesedo | nsnzero: it is biweekly (test drive) for now... | 18:56 |
| chesedo | in the future it might be quicker though | 18:56 |
| nsnzero | good start - i like the news and job openings | 18:57 |
| chesedo | nsnzero: awesome | 18:57 |
| chesedo | theblazehen: ^^ | 18:57 |
| chesedo | oh and great job theblazehen | 18:57 |
| chesedo | nsnzero: hopefully the job openings will be more active/full in the future | 18:58 |
| nsnzero | maybe also a help wanted section - where members can ask for extra assistance like volunteers for testing software projects , etc | 18:59 |
| chesedo | nsnzero: we could try that | 19:00 |
| superfly | Sorry I missed the meeting, I was getting my driver's sorted out | 19:02 |
| nsnzero | hi superfly | 19:03 |
| chesedo | hi superfly | 19:03 |
| superfly | I know have a US learner's license, and I'll be doing my driver's this afternoon | 19:03 |
| superfly | *now | 19:03 |
| superfly | I'm allowed to drive on my ZA license, but apparently I don't know how to drive -_- | 19:03 |
| chesedo | lol | 19:03 |
| chesedo | if you are driving ON it then you won't have much space to drive on any way | 19:04 |
| nsnzero | what do they think we do here ? drive on the pavement and walk on the road ? | 19:04 |
| superfly | who knows | 19:05 |
| * chesedo is off to bed | 19:05 | |
| nsnzero | good luck superfly | 19:05 |
| chesedo | night all | 19:06 |
| nsnzero | night chesedo | 19:06 |
| nsnzero | i am off as well - need my beauty sleep | 19:06 |
| theblazehen | ty chesedo | 19:07 |
| williamk | Night all | 19:08 |
| nsnzero | take care guys | 19:11 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!