| ricotz | good morning desktopers | 07:19 |
|---|---|---|
| ricotz | https://launchpad.net/~ricotz/+archive/ubuntu/staging/+sourcepub/7567774/+listing-archive-extra | 07:20 |
| ricotz | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1650972 | 07:20 |
| ubot5 | Ubuntu bug 1650972 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "No .vapi in Zesty" [Undecided,Confirmed] | 07:20 |
| Laney | hey HEY | 09:02 |
| davmor2 | Morning all | 09:02 |
| willcooke | o/ | 09:03 |
| seb128 | hey u.k band | 09:06 |
| b4n | andyrock, Trevinho: any news on https://code.launchpad.net/~banw/compiz/compiz.a11y-shotcuts/+merge/320091 ? :) | 09:07 |
| davmor2 | seb128: oh we are a band I hope it's a rock band | 09:07 |
| seb128 | it's up to you to decide! | 09:08 |
| Laney | we're west country folk | 09:11 |
| Laney | the wurzels | 09:11 |
| davmor2 | Laney: I don't even mind that as long as we aren't a rap band or a boy band | 09:14 |
| Laney | uk garage it is | 09:18 |
| davmor2 | Laney: /me always hears UK rap like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAIOzM7SsMo | 09:21 |
| davmor2 | Laney: Nice cover of Zombie | 09:22 |
| * Laney dies | 09:26 | |
| Laney | made about 10 seconds of that | 09:26 |
| desrt | hi hackers | 09:27 |
| davmor2 | Laney: wuss that was a number 4 hit | 09:27 |
| davmor2 | Laney: it is pretty much how UK rap sounds in comparison to US rap though :) | 09:28 |
| Laney | hi desrt | 09:29 |
| Laney | how's the london? | 09:29 |
| seb128 | hey desrt | 09:39 |
| davmor2 | Laney: also that's still not a bad song in comparison to some I know :D | 09:40 |
| Laney | :(((( | 09:47 |
| * Sweet5hark prefers french rap to UK rap for the most part. French rap appears like something of its own, while UK rap cant escape to appear wannabe to me. | 09:53 | |
| Sweet5hark | ^ Sentence best consumed with some spice girls rapping in the background. | 09:54 |
| ogra_ | Sweet5hark, is that because one is european and the other is brexit ? | 10:08 |
| desrt | Laney: wet. | 10:41 |
| desrt | seb128: hi :) | 10:41 |
| Laney | desrt: you seem to have come during the second winter | 10:43 |
| desrt | ya..... happy to be outside of the continent, as not to shatter my illusions about what's going on there | 10:47 |
| willcooke | Right, that does it. 5ghz wifi access point is going in the bin. | 11:23 |
| allison[m] | so, matrix is the hot new thing in gnomeworld | 11:49 |
| allison[m] | time to cancel my irccloud account, apparently | 11:49 |
| Laney | ya, everyone's around with these [m] nicks | 11:50 |
| allison[m] | i wonder if it's possible to get rid of them.... | 11:50 |
| Laney | and if you tab complete someone else on matrix it substitutes their full name on IRC | 11:50 |
| Laney | which looks curious :-) | 11:50 |
| allison[m] | seems that i'm the only matrix user in this channel... | 11:51 |
| allison[m] | the web client is substantially nicer than irccloud | 11:51 |
| allison[m] | (to say nothing of the phone app) | 11:54 |
| === JanC_ is now known as JanC | ||
| Laney | ricotz: is that nm patch forwarded? | 11:57 |
| Laney | or is that code part of a distro delta? | 11:57 |
| ricotz | Laney, see https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=780032 | 11:58 |
| ubot5 | Gnome bug 780032 in gobject "Add missing attributes to two functions" [Normal,Resolved: fixed] | 11:58 |
| ricotz | Laney, and I didn't forward it | 11:58 |
| Laney | might be nice to | 12:00 |
| Laney | and patch headers would be good in future too | 12:00 |
| ricotz | Laney, hmm, I thought I mentioned the bug report at the top of the patch | 12:02 |
| seb128 | Laney, allison[m], what's the point of that [m]? | 12:38 |
| === hikiko is now known as hikiko|ln | ||
| Laney | I think matrix puts it on for you | 12:43 |
| seb128 | for a technical reason? | 12:44 |
| seb128 | or just to as free-advertizing for their service? | 12:44 |
| seb128 | jbicha, was enabling the packagekit backend in http://launchpadlibrarian.net/294723961/gnome-software_3.22.2+git20161108.0.a58dfc7-0ubuntu3_3.22.2+git20161108.0.a58dfc7-0ubuntu4.diff.gz voluntary? it's not documented in the changelog | 12:47 |
| seb128 | Laney, ^ you might know? | 12:47 |
| Laney | no I don't, it wasn't anything to do with me | 12:48 |
| Laney | is there a problem? | 12:48 |
| seb128 | yeah, I know it doesn't have to do with you, but you follow a bit what's going on so I asked in case, no worry | 12:49 |
| seb128 | that's what leads to sessioninstaller not working | 12:49 |
| seb128 | g-s owns the packagekit session bus name when pkgkit is enabled | 12:49 |
| jbicha | seb128: the pk backend is not actually enabled in Ubuntu's gnome-software | 12:50 |
| seb128 | jbicha, build log disagrees with you | 12:50 |
| seb128 | https://launchpadlibrarian.net/294733318/buildlog_ubuntu-zesty-amd64.gnome-software_3.22.2+git20161108.0.a58dfc7-0ubuntu4_BUILDING.txt.gz | 12:51 |
| Laney | it certainly is enabled | 12:51 |
| seb128 | https://launchpadlibrarian.net/294733318/buildlog_ubuntu-zesty-amd64.gnome-software_3.22.2+git20161108.0.a58dfc7-0ubuntu4_BUILDING.txt.gz | 12:51 |
| Laney | it just doesn't normally cause a problem because the apt backend conflicts it out | 12:51 |
| seb128 | PackageKit support: yes | 12:51 |
| Laney | seems it does actually do something though | 12:51 |
| seb128 | well since that version the deb ships /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.freedesktop.PackageKit.service | 12:51 |
| seb128 | so at least that's one issue | 12:51 |
| jbicha | seb128: ok, let me explicitly disable it, thanks! | 12:52 |
| seb128 | thanks | 12:52 |
| seb128 | so that was an overlook? | 12:53 |
| seb128 | in any case we should make it work | 12:53 |
| seb128 | but it's a bit late for this cycle to start on that | 12:53 |
| Laney | make packagekit work? | 12:53 |
| jbicha | we can either use the pk backend or the apt backend, we can't have both | 12:53 |
| seb128 | removing that .service makes code install work | 12:53 |
| seb128 | codec | 12:53 |
| seb128 | I just did a rm locally | 12:54 |
| seb128 | Laney, but we don't use packagekit so it's rather "implement that feature in the apt backend"? | 12:54 |
| Laney | asking what you mean by 'make it work' | 12:54 |
| seb128 | or do we use the pkgkit backend for some bits like codecs? | 12:54 |
| seb128 | I don't know yet | 12:54 |
| seb128 | I just figured out that it was the issue | 12:55 |
| seb128 | I'm poking at g-s code next | 12:55 |
| seb128 | I keep you updated | 12:55 |
| Laney | jbicha is going to turn off packagekit, so then it will stop producing the .service file | 12:55 |
| seb128 | that fixes it | 12:55 |
| seb128 | but I don't know enough about current g-s to know if packagekit is useful/used in some other way atm | 12:55 |
| Laney | but | 12:55 |
| Laney | it would be good to make it work so we can drop sessioninstaller next cycle | 12:55 |
| Laney | so feel free to continue on that path | 12:56 |
| Laney | I think you need gstraemer1.0-packagekit at least | 12:56 |
| Laney | I should guess it's because /usr/share/dbus-1/services/sessioninstaller.service has the same Name= as /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.freedesktop.PackageKit.service | 12:58 |
| Laney | well done for finding it :-) | 13:00 |
| jbicha | +1 | 13:00 |
| seb128 | yeah | 13:00 |
| jbicha | if we switch gnome-software to use pk instead of apt, g-software can handle codecs, you do not need gstreamer1.0-packagekit | 13:01 |
| seb128 | unsure what is blocking us to use the packagekit backend | 13:01 |
| jbicha | you can try it out with https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ubuntu/gnome-software/ | 13:01 |
| davmor2 | jbicha: it can't now | 13:01 |
| jbicha | well, right now, it's Feature Freeze :) | 13:01 |
| seb128 | not only | 13:01 |
| seb128 | one of the blockers was performances | 13:01 |
| seb128 | and I don't think that got resolved | 13:01 |
| Laney | somebody testing it and committing to doing any work required | 13:01 |
| Laney | it's fine and trivial to do the packaging side | 13:01 |
| seb128 | whoever wants to switch should at least properly benchmark | 13:02 |
| Laney | but it's not acceptable to drop a shitty experience on us and then stand back | 13:02 |
| davmor2 | currently if you open a video without a codec it fails to open software center at all so I think worrying about if it can install them is a mote point | 13:02 |
| Laney | yes we know | 13:03 |
| seb128 | davmor2, can you read the backlog? | 13:03 |
| seb128 | your comment suggest you didn't | 13:04 |
| davmor2 | seb128: no racing between machines too much | 13:04 |
| seb128 | we are being discussing solutions for that issue | 13:04 |
| davmor2 | seb128: ah cool | 13:04 |
| seb128 | davmor2, k, so please just step out of the discussion, you are commenting about things which were already raised/resolved | 13:05 |
| davmor2 | seb128: \o/ | 13:05 |
| === hikiko|ln is now known as hikiko | ||
| jbicha | the g-s- fix is in the zesty unapproved queue | 13:28 |
| === allison[m] is now known as allison | ||
| jbicha | g-s-with-pk actually did a clean start faster for me than gs-with-apt but then it takes a while to fill out the Installed page for instance | 13:33 |
| jbicha | please add concerns or comments to LP: #1643134 | 13:35 |
| ubot5 | Launchpad bug 1643134 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "Switch gnome-software to use PackageKit backend" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1643134 | 13:35 |
| Laney | jbicha: I don't think it's helpful to think of it as a packaging driven change. Someone needs to own the work, figure out the problems and then drive a process of fixing them. | 13:39 |
| Laney | The mechanical stuff is relatively trivial. | 13:39 |
| jbicha | well I've done the testing in the bug description | 13:40 |
| jbicha | gs-with-apt has bugs too that haven't been fixed either; switching to pk solves some of those (but at the expense of making it even less likely someone will get around to fixing those bugs in xenial) | 13:41 |
| didrocks | I know some fedora contributors/users not really happy with the pkgkit usage on g-s | 13:45 |
| didrocks | really bad experience, like having to refresh multiple times the package list, no feedback of upgrade happening behind the scene | 13:45 |
| didrocks | (sometimes, you click refresh and it looks like you are done, but reclicking then retrigger a request, blocking for a good 5 minutes, and you have your package list) | 13:46 |
| didrocks | you can have to hit the refresh 5 times | 13:46 |
| didrocks | the issues were identified in the packagekit using from gnome-software | 13:46 |
| didrocks | usage* | 13:46 |
| didrocks | I did test it myself yesterday in a vm, and can confirm | 13:46 |
| didrocks | the benefit for free is the offline update though | 13:47 |
| jbicha | I believe we can disable gnome-software's Updates by default in 3.24 which I assume we'll do since we have update-manager | 13:47 |
| didrocks | yes, but we would still have those refresh package list bugs | 13:47 |
| didrocks | that are unresolved as of fedora 26 at least | 13:47 |
| didrocks | so, proper and long time benchmarking/testing is really needed before taking any decision IMHO | 13:48 |
| didrocks | coming from fedora fanboys and contributors themselves, I wouldn't take their concerns lightely | 13:48 |
| jbicha | didrocks: did you test gs-with-packagekit on Ubuntu? https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ubuntu/gnome-software/ | 13:49 |
| Laney | Essentially we should take responsibility for it after the switch | 13:49 |
| didrocks | jbicha: I didn't, I don't work on desktop anymore, I'm just giving here some hints of the words on the street from people close to those upstreams | 13:49 |
| seb128 | jbicha, start I don't know about, it's just computation of upgrades/install and actions that we slower, part of the issues were due to aptcc from what the debian maintainers said iirc | 13:51 |
| Laney | It's all well and good to test it, but then the next steps need to happen too | 13:51 |
| seb128 | but what Laney says | 13:51 |
| seb128 | whoever does the switch should own the transition/to get things in shape | 13:51 |
| Laney | Fair enough you might think the apt backend is crap, but our team *has* contributed there, and we have fixed bugs even if there are others remaining | 13:51 |
| Laney | The same will have to happen with the packagekit backend | 13:52 |
| Laney | This piece of software requires more integratin than most | 13:52 |
| jbicha | let's take a look again after zesty | 13:59 |
| jbicha | installing apps doesn't feel slow to me; and if we don't even use the Updates part then slowness there won't matter except for people who intentionally enable that | 14:00 |
| === dandrader is now known as dandrader|afk | ||
| seb128 | jbicha, by "update" I mean installing pending updates, which we can do from our UI | 14:01 |
| jbicha | seb128: I don't think we want both GNOME Software and update-manager handling pending updates | 14:01 |
| seb128 | no we don't | 14:03 |
| seb128 | but the update tab is there in g-s | 14:03 |
| seb128 | so it should be usable for users who manually decide to go there and use it | 14:03 |
| seb128 | or we should remove it | 14:03 |
| jbicha | https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-software/commit/?id=81dbe62 | 14:04 |
| seb128 | ah, ok | 14:07 |
| seb128 | I'm undecided on that | 14:07 |
| seb128 | I still think a package management UI should allow you to update installed packages, synaptic of software-center allows that as well | 14:09 |
| jbicha | yes but it's not well-integrated yet (for instance because of phased-updates, gnome-software shows you updates that you don't see in update-manager) | 14:13 |
| seb128 | well I guess we could disable the tab | 14:15 |
| seb128 | as long as you can do "update" from a detailed view of a specific software | 14:15 |
| Laney | what about firmware updates, snap updates (do they always happen automatically?), flatpak updates? | 14:17 |
| seb128 | good point | 14:19 |
| jbicha | oh, you're right, it's complicated :( | 14:21 |
| Laney | and then is it weird that there's one type of update you don't see in there (deb packages)? | 14:21 |
| Laney | tough stuff! | 14:21 |
| seb128 | I don't think it's a big deal to have g-s listing updates and still having update-manager defaulting to be the tools to apply those | 14:23 |
| seb128 | users who just apply those don't see g-s | 14:23 |
| seb128 | those who go to g-s expect a package management tool | 14:23 |
| jbicha | gs-with-pk only does offline upgrades now (at least for system updates) which is "interesting" | 14:25 |
| Laney | it's all fixable | 14:28 |
| === dandrader|afk is now known as dandrader | ||
| === carlolo is now known as clobrano | ||
| === dandrader is now known as dandrader|afk | ||
| === dandrader|afk is now known as dandrader | ||
| willcooke | quttin' time. I'm off tomorrow (going to the NEC) so back Friday. Toodles | 18:01 |
| === dandrader is now known as dandrader|afk | ||
| === dandrader|afk is now known as dandrader | ||
| jbicha | FJKong: good morning, for LP: #1644781 you'll want to look at the extra dependencies added in 3.21.91-2 but it looks like Debian missed the evince one | 23:20 |
| ubot5 | Launchpad bug 1644781 in gnome-sushi (Ubuntu) "Sushi-start fails with 16.10 upgrade, both Unity and Mate" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1644781 | 23:20 |
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