| === JanC is now known as Guest89300 | ||
| === JanC_ is now known as JanC | ||
| === t-rex is now known as Guest67417 | ||
| anuragh | can someone suggest me best tutorials for snapcraft ? | 06:24 |
|---|---|---|
| mup | PR snapd#3077 closed: interfaces: convert systemd backend to new APIs <Created by zyga> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3077> | 11:07 |
| Son_Goku | zyga: who do we talk to for getting Launchpad's Red Hat bug tracker integration fixed? https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/redhat-bugs | 11:08 |
| mup | PR snapd#3072 closed: interfaces: use udev spec <Created by stolowski> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3072> | 11:12 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: hey | 11:13 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: cjwatson I think | 11:13 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: those are pretty tiny and probably just neglected | 11:13 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: but should be easy to fix | 11:13 |
| Son_Goku | the bug tracking has been broken for a couple of years, and I think disabled for nearly as long | 11:13 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: yeah, niche feature | 11:14 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: I think we need to report a bug / talk to cjwatson | 11:14 |
| Son_Goku | well, I personally like being able to tie upstream and downstream bugs together and have them tracked and injected into the bug report | 11:15 |
| Son_Goku | it helps keep everyone in the loop, so to speak | 11:15 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: yeah, that's why this feature exists here but it doesn't work perfectly everywhere | 11:15 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: we had some issues and the github tracker was fixed | 11:15 |
| zyga | offtopic, I got some set of nylon screws and standoffs so that my boards don't just lay flat on the desk | 11:16 |
| zyga | but ... obviously... wrong size for everyone | 11:16 |
| Son_Goku | O.o | 11:16 |
| zyga | pi2, pi3, dragon, ci20 | 11:16 |
| zyga | eh | 11:16 |
| zyga | why doesn't anyone think about consistency | 11:16 |
| zyga | especially for casual folks like us here, not mechanical engineers that love the 10s of marginally different screws they can use | 11:16 |
| zyga | or have easy and well-understood supply chain | 11:16 |
| zyga | dragon has smaller screws holes than anyone else, ci20 has huge holes :/ | 11:17 |
| Son_Goku | it's super annoying | 11:17 |
| Son_Goku | had the same problem with the Pine vs the Pi3 vs Pi2 | 11:17 |
| zyga | and no sata :D | 11:18 |
| zyga | oh, I have one more board | 11:18 |
| zyga | I forgot about it | 11:18 |
| zyga | I mean plenty of others but this runs linux | 11:18 |
| zyga | orange pi | 11:18 |
| zyga | one of the gazillion variants | 11:18 |
| Son_Goku | the ARM ecosystem just depresses me | 11:18 |
| Son_Goku | so much potential, but so bloody screwy | 11:19 |
| zyga | but we're stuck with it | 11:19 |
| zyga | wow | 11:19 |
| zyga | actually, this last board has sane screw holders | 11:19 |
| zyga | go figure... | 11:19 |
| Son_Goku | at least Red Hat and Linaro made the server ARM boards not stupid | 11:19 |
| Son_Goku | but goddamn | 11:19 |
| zyga | yes | 11:19 |
| zyga | no matter how I hate firmware | 11:20 |
| zyga | this is a good thing | 11:20 |
| zyga | (acpi and all that stuff) | 11:20 |
| zyga | btw, snapd for mageia? | 11:20 |
| Son_Goku | in 2017, over 85% (and I'm being generous here) of all ARM boards requires special snowflake firmware | 11:20 |
| zyga | sync from fedora or do we need a new package? | 11:20 |
| Son_Goku | zyga: mostly sync from Fedora | 11:20 |
| zyga | well, it's like a micro controller world really :) | 11:20 |
| Son_Goku | just need to disable mandatory installation of the selinux subpackage | 11:20 |
| Son_Goku | and since we still need AppArmor fixes upstreamed, still no confinement goodness | 11:21 |
| Son_Goku | technically, Mageia currently uses TOMOYO | 11:21 |
| Son_Goku | but nobody really supports it, so *shrugs* | 11:21 |
| zyga | isn't it a thing in some vertical market? | 11:22 |
| zyga | automotive/ | 11:22 |
| Son_Goku | yes | 11:22 |
| zyga | or something like htat | 11:22 |
| zyga | it's a japanese invention | 11:22 |
| Son_Goku | yep | 11:22 |
| zyga | like ruby | 11:23 |
| zyga | :D | 11:23 |
| zyga | speaking of which | 11:23 |
| zyga | I want to do my own thing today | 11:23 |
| zyga | no work :) | 11:23 |
| zyga | so after I'm done with the boards | 11:23 |
| Son_Goku | well, the gratuitous use of capital letters is indicative of Japaneseness :) | 11:23 |
| zyga | I'll blog some more | 11:23 |
| zyga | and work on rob | 11:23 |
| Son_Goku | rob? | 11:23 |
| zyga | rob is my sandbox for creativity and just sheer NIH :D | 11:23 |
| zyga | rob = make | 11:23 |
| Son_Goku | ah right | 11:23 |
| zyga | rób :-) | 11:24 |
| zyga | (ó is pronounced exactly like u) | 11:24 |
| Son_Goku | so... like rub or rube? | 11:24 |
| zyga | not like US "r" (a-r) more like plain rrrr | 11:25 |
| zyga | rrrr-u-b (short u) | 11:25 |
| zyga | heh | 11:25 |
| zyga | I wanted to add a feature | 11:25 |
| zyga | rob --pronounce (or something) | 11:26 |
| zyga | that has a wave table inside | 11:26 |
| zyga | and just plays it | 11:26 |
| Son_Goku | haha | 11:26 |
| zyga | I was thinking about a new license as well | 11:27 |
| zyga | SSL (sustainable software license) | 11:27 |
| zyga | the name sucks :) | 11:27 |
| Son_Goku | :/ | 11:27 |
| zyga | the idea is that it is proprietary with escrow so it turns to a pre-determined FOSS license if abandoned | 11:27 |
| zyga | so you'd be able to sell new copies | 11:28 |
| Son_Goku | please don't make custom licenses for the fucks | 11:28 |
| Son_Goku | you know what happens when you do | 11:28 |
| zyga | but would not die if I stop caring | 11:28 |
| zyga | well, I think it's a real problem for today FOSS software | 11:28 |
| zyga | it's hard to fund | 11:28 |
| zyga | it's just an idea | 11:28 |
| zyga | I don't need to put everything into one box | 11:28 |
| zyga | and rob is just a toy for now | 11:29 |
| zyga | but if one could really sell FOSS software (practically, not like today but not really) at low price in high volume I think world would be better | 11:29 |
| zyga | would you buy a program for $5 knowing that it becomes GPL if you don't get an update in 12 months? | 11:31 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: ah, sorry got disconnected | 11:42 |
| zyga | all the boards have stand offs now :) | 11:42 |
| Son_Goku | heh | 11:42 |
| Son_Goku | today is going to be the day where I spend most of my time playing Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild | 11:43 |
| Son_Goku | I have a Nintendo Switch and my god, it's amazing | 11:43 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: ooooooooh | 11:43 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: tell me | 11:43 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: I love zelda | 11:43 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: did you get the switch? | 11:43 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: or the wii u version? | 11:43 |
| Son_Goku | yes | 11:43 |
| Son_Goku | Switch version, ofc | 11:43 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: ohhh! | 11:43 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: tell me! how do you like it? | 11:43 |
| Son_Goku | it's awesome | 11:43 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: bot the console and the game | 11:43 |
| Son_Goku | the Joy-Cons are a literal joy to use | 11:43 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: ooooh :-( I don't have it yet | 11:44 |
| Son_Goku | 1-2-Switch game made it easy to really pick it up and get familiar | 11:44 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: I was thinking about buying horizon zero dawn as it's not as $$$ as a new game *and* a new device | 11:44 |
| Son_Goku | and they really did a good job emulating real-world feel with the haptics | 11:44 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: did you play on the go? | 11:44 |
| Son_Goku | I've done a bit of that, yes | 11:44 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: does it play equally well? | 11:45 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: is the framerate the same? | 11:45 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: and is the screen good? | 11:45 |
| Son_Goku | the screen is very nice, and the framerate is good, most of the time | 11:47 |
| Son_Goku | there's some moments where it slows down a bit, particularly when there's lots of actively moving things | 11:47 |
| Son_Goku | but it doesn't happen often enough to be concerning | 11:47 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: but does that happen only while on the go? I'm trying to understand if it's slower when on batter | 11:47 |
| zyga | battery | 11:47 |
| Son_Goku | when not connected to the TV, it's actually better | 11:48 |
| Son_Goku | less pixels to push | 11:48 |
| zyga | oh, curious :) | 11:48 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: and the actual game | 11:49 |
| Son_Goku | battery life is about 3.5~4 hours with Zelda | 11:49 |
| Son_Goku | supposedly the battery capacity lends itself well for 8 hours, but who knows? | 11:49 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: how far did you get into the game? | 11:52 |
| Son_Goku | I'm not too far in yet, I've only gotten to two shrines, and I have to get to two more before I get a paraglider to get further along | 11:53 |
| Son_Goku | but damn, the world is HUGE and somewhat challenging to navigate | 11:53 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: bring it to the next snappy sprint :) | 11:53 |
| Son_Goku | if there is one, I will :) | 11:53 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: my kids have nintendo 3DSes but they rarely game | 11:53 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: nowadays it's just the PS4 | 11:54 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: star wars battlefront for my son and lots of gentle games for my daughter (she adores flower) | 11:54 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: they played zeldas but still too challenging for my son (he hates reading) | 11:54 |
| Son_Goku | I usually bring my 3DS with me wherever I go | 11:54 |
| Son_Goku | but this time around, I'll be able to bring a real console too :D | 11:54 |
| zyga | ha, indeed :) | 11:55 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: what do you plan to do after you finish zelda | 11:56 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: with each new console lack of games is a risk | 11:56 |
| Son_Goku | well, I have another game on the way, it just isn't here yet :) | 11:57 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: and nintendo and shun-3rd-party approach is an extra factor | 11:57 |
| Son_Goku | they've done the opposite this time | 11:57 |
| Son_Goku | even freaking Skyrim is going to be on the Switch | 11:57 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: well but skyrim is ooold | 11:57 |
| Son_Goku | that's not the point | 11:57 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: and I played it years ago after getting it for 10 euro | 11:57 |
| Son_Goku | it's a third party vendor who historically doesn't do Nintendo | 11:57 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: my point is that unless they bring *new* stuff 3rd party is not that fun (spend 60 to play skyrim) | 11:58 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: I hope you are right :) | 11:58 |
| Son_Goku | but regardless, there's still a huge catalog of Nintendo games to release too | 12:01 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: well, but for adults most are nooooot that fun | 12:03 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: I love mario | 12:03 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: but what else is there | 12:03 |
| Son_Goku | I'd like to consider myself an "Adult(TM)" | 12:04 |
| zyga | AFON | 12:04 |
| zyga | adult fan of nintendo | 12:04 |
| zyga | ;D | 12:04 |
| Son_Goku | I find the Donkey Kong stuff fun, the Sonic games coming are also looking to be quite good | 12:04 |
| Son_Goku | though Sonic is SEGA, not Nintendo | 12:05 |
| zyga | isn't sega done and a part of EA now? | 12:05 |
| Son_Goku | they're still owned by Sega-Sammy Holdings | 12:05 |
| Son_Goku | they acquired Technosoft last year | 12:06 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: I'd love to see some new IP show up, something fres | 12:07 |
| zyga | fresh* | 12:07 |
| zyga | not another mario/zelda/metroid spin | 12:07 |
| Son_Goku | oh, Splatoon is very fun | 12:07 |
| zyga | or open switch to indie games | 12:07 |
| Son_Goku | oh you didn't hear? | 12:07 |
| Son_Goku | Switch is actually going to be opening to indie games | 12:08 |
| Son_Goku | http://indieobscura.com/article/817/confirmed-nintendo-switch-indie-game-lineup | 12:09 |
| Son_Goku | I actually ordered Has-Been Heroes | 12:10 |
| zyga | mmm, interesting | 12:11 |
| Son_Goku | more details on the "Switch": http://www.theverge.com/2017/3/1/14777672/nintendo-switch-indie-games-releases | 12:11 |
| zyga | so back to licenses | 12:11 |
| Son_Goku | hm? | 12:12 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: would you pay for a game on Linux? | 12:12 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: (say inside a snap as that's the only format that is open for any publisher and has a payment system) | 12:12 |
| Son_Goku | I pay for Linux games quite often, actually | 12:13 |
| Son_Goku | but portability is a huge problem | 12:13 |
| Son_Goku | frankly, I would not today with snap | 12:13 |
| Son_Goku | and as a game dev, I don't even like snapping my game right now | 12:13 |
| Son_Goku | admittedly, my game is freely available and open source | 12:14 |
| Son_Goku | but still | 12:14 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: what risks or issues do you see? | 12:14 |
| Son_Goku | well, the main issue is that custom hardware and GL issues still plague it | 12:14 |
| Son_Goku | custom game pads are a pain to make work normally anyway | 12:14 |
| Son_Goku | but this adds another level of pain | 12:14 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: I think we know what the solution is | 12:15 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: but needs some focus to get there | 12:15 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: stuff like proprietary 3D stacks need to become snaps so there's no ABI issue | 12:15 |
| Son_Goku | one of my friends who works on a game engine project was approached about snapping it, and he didn't feel like it was worth it | 12:15 |
| Son_Goku | he had two big problems with it: | 12:16 |
| Son_Goku | 1. He despises developing on the Ubuntu platform | 12:16 |
| Son_Goku | 2. Most of the things he needs to work don't currently in snaps | 12:16 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: what are the 2. things that don't work? | 12:17 |
| Son_Goku | well, there didn't seem to be an easy or obvious way to link game content to the engine runtime snap | 12:17 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: (even in devmode?) | 12:17 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: ah so he wants a two-snap solution? | 12:18 |
| Son_Goku | and of course, custom hardware support is basically nil | 12:18 |
| Son_Goku | for developing games, that's absolutely critical to have | 12:18 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: any reason to pursue that today? one snap approach is far better for now | 12:18 |
| zyga | what custom hardware? | 12:18 |
| zyga | controllers? | 12:18 |
| zyga | or GPUs? | 12:18 |
| Son_Goku | controllers, GPUs, midi devices, etc. | 12:18 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: I'm surprised because I suspect that most things that people play would run in snaps without issues | 12:18 |
| Son_Goku | if you need a midi device, you're SOL | 12:19 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: controllers = USB interface and it's all solved (probably 5 controllers covers 99% of the planet) | 12:19 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: midi = dead (for gaming) | 12:19 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: and GPU is well known and solvable | 12:19 |
| Son_Goku | for music composition, it's not | 12:19 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: we're not talking about niche music making stuff but games | 12:19 |
| Son_Goku | game composers do it too | 12:19 |
| Son_Goku | especially for those "retro" games | 12:19 |
| Son_Goku | you know what I'm talking about | 12:19 |
| zyga | but those don't use midi to play it in the end | 12:20 |
| Son_Goku | no they don't | 12:20 |
| zyga | nobody has midi hardware in their device | 12:20 |
| zyga | so for game making | 12:20 |
| zyga | fine use whatever | 12:20 |
| zyga | after that there's no midi issue | 12:20 |
| zyga | so? | 12:20 |
| Son_Goku | the engine is a game development toolkit too | 12:20 |
| Son_Goku | engine includes runtime plus editor and manipulator | 12:20 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: fine, that can be shipped in whatever form | 12:20 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: after the game is done | 12:20 |
| Son_Goku | yes, yes | 12:20 |
| Son_Goku | but he was approached on making the engine tools snapped too | 12:21 |
| * Son_Goku shrugs | 12:21 | |
| zyga | Son_Goku: is there an actual issue? | 12:21 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: what is the actual issue then? | 12:21 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: it's not midi | 12:21 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: ah, well, that's another story | 12:21 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: I think that's really phase 2 | 12:21 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: phase one is a format for games to sell and play anywhere | 12:21 |
| Son_Goku | of course, when the engine tooling renders the output game, it's not using midi | 12:21 |
| Son_Goku | that would be stupid | 12:21 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: one thing gaming sucks about is cross-buy | 12:25 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: I got stardew valley on gog | 12:25 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: I dont want to re-buy on other platforms | 12:25 |
| Son_Goku | yeah | 12:25 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: gog<->steam connect is the step in that direction | 12:26 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: I'd love to see gog<->snap as well if they can do it | 12:26 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: I think it could be a boom for snaps | 12:27 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: seed your snap library with your gog games | 12:27 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: show that it works | 12:27 |
| Son_Goku | that'd be hard though | 12:27 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: show that it is convenient | 12:27 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: why? | 12:27 |
| Son_Goku | because the snap store API is unstable | 12:27 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: and who would be affected by that? | 12:27 |
| Son_Goku | gogs mainly | 12:28 |
| Son_Goku | no one wants to deal with that shit | 12:28 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: there's no api for something like connect, if there was anything like this happening that API would be stable | 12:28 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: besides, it is a specialized api that only two people would use | 12:28 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: (gog, humble bundle, maybe steam) | 12:28 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: as snap developer or user nobody would see that | 12:28 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: I think it's compelling | 12:28 |
| Son_Goku | it is compelling | 12:29 |
| Son_Goku | as long no one breaks it :) | 12:29 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: I think after you "own" it it's not going to be broken even if the connection part is disabled for some reason | 12:30 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: I should try to snap that doom game | 12:30 |
| zyga | Son_Goku: doom == dosbox + data | 12:30 |
| Son_Goku | that game would be relatively easy to do | 12:30 |
| zyga | but first... | 12:30 |
| zyga | spring cleaning | 12:30 |
| === jkridner|pd is now known as jkridner | ||
| === grumble is now known as Guest52475 | ||
| === rumble is now known as grumble | ||
| mup | PR snapd#3080 closed: interfaces: remove old API <Created by stolowski> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3080> | 17:38 |
| mup | PR snapd#3068 closed: boot: log error in KernelOrOsRebootRequired <Created by zyga> <Merged by zyga> <https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/3068> | 17:39 |
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