=== JanC is now known as Guest89300 === JanC_ is now known as JanC === t-rex is now known as Guest67417 [06:24] can someone suggest me best tutorials for snapcraft ? [11:07] PR snapd#3077 closed: interfaces: convert systemd backend to new APIs [11:08] zyga: who do we talk to for getting Launchpad's Red Hat bug tracker integration fixed? https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/redhat-bugs [11:12] PR snapd#3072 closed: interfaces: use udev spec [11:13] Son_Goku: hey [11:13] Son_Goku: cjwatson I think [11:13] Son_Goku: those are pretty tiny and probably just neglected [11:13] Son_Goku: but should be easy to fix [11:13] the bug tracking has been broken for a couple of years, and I think disabled for nearly as long [11:14] Son_Goku: yeah, niche feature [11:14] Son_Goku: I think we need to report a bug / talk to cjwatson [11:15] well, I personally like being able to tie upstream and downstream bugs together and have them tracked and injected into the bug report [11:15] it helps keep everyone in the loop, so to speak [11:15] Son_Goku: yeah, that's why this feature exists here but it doesn't work perfectly everywhere [11:15] Son_Goku: we had some issues and the github tracker was fixed [11:16] offtopic, I got some set of nylon screws and standoffs so that my boards don't just lay flat on the desk [11:16] but ... obviously... wrong size for everyone [11:16] O.o [11:16] pi2, pi3, dragon, ci20 [11:16] eh [11:16] why doesn't anyone think about consistency [11:16] especially for casual folks like us here, not mechanical engineers that love the 10s of marginally different screws they can use [11:16] or have easy and well-understood supply chain [11:17] dragon has smaller screws holes than anyone else, ci20 has huge holes :/ [11:17] it's super annoying [11:17] had the same problem with the Pine vs the Pi3 vs Pi2 [11:18] and no sata :D [11:18] oh, I have one more board [11:18] I forgot about it [11:18] I mean plenty of others but this runs linux [11:18] orange pi [11:18] one of the gazillion variants [11:18] the ARM ecosystem just depresses me [11:19] so much potential, but so bloody screwy [11:19] but we're stuck with it [11:19] wow [11:19] actually, this last board has sane screw holders [11:19] go figure... [11:19] at least Red Hat and Linaro made the server ARM boards not stupid [11:19] but goddamn [11:19] yes [11:20] no matter how I hate firmware [11:20] this is a good thing [11:20] (acpi and all that stuff) [11:20] btw, snapd for mageia? [11:20] in 2017, over 85% (and I'm being generous here) of all ARM boards requires special snowflake firmware [11:20] sync from fedora or do we need a new package? [11:20] zyga: mostly sync from Fedora [11:20] well, it's like a micro controller world really :) [11:20] just need to disable mandatory installation of the selinux subpackage [11:21] and since we still need AppArmor fixes upstreamed, still no confinement goodness [11:21] technically, Mageia currently uses TOMOYO [11:21] but nobody really supports it, so *shrugs* [11:22] isn't it a thing in some vertical market? [11:22] automotive/ [11:22] yes [11:22] or something like htat [11:22] it's a japanese invention [11:22] yep [11:23] like ruby [11:23] :D [11:23] speaking of which [11:23] I want to do my own thing today [11:23] no work :) [11:23] so after I'm done with the boards [11:23] well, the gratuitous use of capital letters is indicative of Japaneseness :) [11:23] I'll blog some more [11:23] and work on rob [11:23] rob? [11:23] rob is my sandbox for creativity and just sheer NIH :D [11:23] rob = make [11:23] ah right [11:24] rób :-) [11:24] (ó is pronounced exactly like u) [11:24] so... like rub or rube? [11:25] not like US "r" (a-r) more like plain rrrr [11:25] rrrr-u-b (short u) [11:25] heh [11:25] I wanted to add a feature [11:26] rob --pronounce (or something) [11:26] that has a wave table inside [11:26] and just plays it [11:26] haha [11:27] I was thinking about a new license as well [11:27] SSL (sustainable software license) [11:27] the name sucks :) [11:27] :/ [11:27] the idea is that it is proprietary with escrow so it turns to a pre-determined FOSS license if abandoned [11:28] so you'd be able to sell new copies [11:28] please don't make custom licenses for the fucks [11:28] you know what happens when you do [11:28] but would not die if I stop caring [11:28] well, I think it's a real problem for today FOSS software [11:28] it's hard to fund [11:28] it's just an idea [11:28] I don't need to put everything into one box [11:29] and rob is just a toy for now [11:29] but if one could really sell FOSS software (practically, not like today but not really) at low price in high volume I think world would be better [11:31] would you buy a program for $5 knowing that it becomes GPL if you don't get an update in 12 months? [11:42] Son_Goku: ah, sorry got disconnected [11:42] all the boards have stand offs now :) [11:42] heh [11:43] today is going to be the day where I spend most of my time playing Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild [11:43] I have a Nintendo Switch and my god, it's amazing [11:43] Son_Goku: ooooooooh [11:43] Son_Goku: tell me [11:43] Son_Goku: I love zelda [11:43] Son_Goku: did you get the switch? [11:43] Son_Goku: or the wii u version? [11:43] yes [11:43] Switch version, ofc [11:43] Son_Goku: ohhh! [11:43] Son_Goku: tell me! how do you like it? [11:43] it's awesome [11:43] Son_Goku: bot the console and the game [11:43] the Joy-Cons are a literal joy to use [11:44] Son_Goku: ooooh :-( I don't have it yet [11:44] 1-2-Switch game made it easy to really pick it up and get familiar [11:44] Son_Goku: I was thinking about buying horizon zero dawn as it's not as $$$ as a new game *and* a new device [11:44] and they really did a good job emulating real-world feel with the haptics [11:44] Son_Goku: did you play on the go? [11:44] I've done a bit of that, yes [11:45] Son_Goku: does it play equally well? [11:45] Son_Goku: is the framerate the same? [11:45] Son_Goku: and is the screen good? [11:47] the screen is very nice, and the framerate is good, most of the time [11:47] there's some moments where it slows down a bit, particularly when there's lots of actively moving things [11:47] but it doesn't happen often enough to be concerning [11:47] Son_Goku: but does that happen only while on the go? I'm trying to understand if it's slower when on batter [11:47] battery [11:48] when not connected to the TV, it's actually better [11:48] less pixels to push [11:48] oh, curious :) [11:49] Son_Goku: and the actual game [11:49] battery life is about 3.5~4 hours with Zelda [11:49] supposedly the battery capacity lends itself well for 8 hours, but who knows? [11:52] Son_Goku: how far did you get into the game? [11:53] I'm not too far in yet, I've only gotten to two shrines, and I have to get to two more before I get a paraglider to get further along [11:53] but damn, the world is HUGE and somewhat challenging to navigate [11:53] Son_Goku: bring it to the next snappy sprint :) [11:53] if there is one, I will :) [11:53] Son_Goku: my kids have nintendo 3DSes but they rarely game [11:54] Son_Goku: nowadays it's just the PS4 [11:54] Son_Goku: star wars battlefront for my son and lots of gentle games for my daughter (she adores flower) [11:54] Son_Goku: they played zeldas but still too challenging for my son (he hates reading) [11:54] I usually bring my 3DS with me wherever I go [11:54] but this time around, I'll be able to bring a real console too :D [11:55] ha, indeed :) [11:56] Son_Goku: what do you plan to do after you finish zelda [11:56] Son_Goku: with each new console lack of games is a risk [11:57] well, I have another game on the way, it just isn't here yet :) [11:57] Son_Goku: and nintendo and shun-3rd-party approach is an extra factor [11:57] they've done the opposite this time [11:57] even freaking Skyrim is going to be on the Switch [11:57] Son_Goku: well but skyrim is ooold [11:57] that's not the point [11:57] Son_Goku: and I played it years ago after getting it for 10 euro [11:57] it's a third party vendor who historically doesn't do Nintendo [11:58] Son_Goku: my point is that unless they bring *new* stuff 3rd party is not that fun (spend 60 to play skyrim) [11:58] Son_Goku: I hope you are right :) [12:01] but regardless, there's still a huge catalog of Nintendo games to release too [12:03] Son_Goku: well, but for adults most are nooooot that fun [12:03] Son_Goku: I love mario [12:03] Son_Goku: but what else is there [12:04] I'd like to consider myself an "Adult(TM)" [12:04] AFON [12:04] adult fan of nintendo [12:04] ;D [12:04] I find the Donkey Kong stuff fun, the Sonic games coming are also looking to be quite good [12:05] though Sonic is SEGA, not Nintendo [12:05] isn't sega done and a part of EA now? [12:05] they're still owned by Sega-Sammy Holdings [12:06] they acquired Technosoft last year [12:07] Son_Goku: I'd love to see some new IP show up, something fres [12:07] fresh* [12:07] not another mario/zelda/metroid spin [12:07] oh, Splatoon is very fun [12:07] or open switch to indie games [12:07] oh you didn't hear? [12:08] Switch is actually going to be opening to indie games [12:09] http://indieobscura.com/article/817/confirmed-nintendo-switch-indie-game-lineup [12:10] I actually ordered Has-Been Heroes [12:11] mmm, interesting [12:11] more details on the "Switch": http://www.theverge.com/2017/3/1/14777672/nintendo-switch-indie-games-releases [12:11] so back to licenses [12:12] hm? [12:12] Son_Goku: would you pay for a game on Linux? [12:12] Son_Goku: (say inside a snap as that's the only format that is open for any publisher and has a payment system) [12:13] I pay for Linux games quite often, actually [12:13] but portability is a huge problem [12:13] frankly, I would not today with snap [12:13] and as a game dev, I don't even like snapping my game right now [12:14] admittedly, my game is freely available and open source [12:14] but still [12:14] Son_Goku: what risks or issues do you see? [12:14] well, the main issue is that custom hardware and GL issues still plague it [12:14] custom game pads are a pain to make work normally anyway [12:14] but this adds another level of pain [12:15] Son_Goku: I think we know what the solution is [12:15] Son_Goku: but needs some focus to get there [12:15] Son_Goku: stuff like proprietary 3D stacks need to become snaps so there's no ABI issue [12:15] one of my friends who works on a game engine project was approached about snapping it, and he didn't feel like it was worth it [12:16] he had two big problems with it: [12:16] 1. He despises developing on the Ubuntu platform [12:16] 2. Most of the things he needs to work don't currently in snaps [12:17] Son_Goku: what are the 2. things that don't work? [12:17] well, there didn't seem to be an easy or obvious way to link game content to the engine runtime snap [12:17] Son_Goku: (even in devmode?) [12:18] Son_Goku: ah so he wants a two-snap solution? [12:18] and of course, custom hardware support is basically nil [12:18] for developing games, that's absolutely critical to have [12:18] Son_Goku: any reason to pursue that today? one snap approach is far better for now [12:18] what custom hardware? [12:18] controllers? [12:18] or GPUs? [12:18] controllers, GPUs, midi devices, etc. [12:18] Son_Goku: I'm surprised because I suspect that most things that people play would run in snaps without issues [12:19] if you need a midi device, you're SOL [12:19] Son_Goku: controllers = USB interface and it's all solved (probably 5 controllers covers 99% of the planet) [12:19] Son_Goku: midi = dead (for gaming) [12:19] Son_Goku: and GPU is well known and solvable [12:19] for music composition, it's not [12:19] Son_Goku: we're not talking about niche music making stuff but games [12:19] game composers do it too [12:19] especially for those "retro" games [12:19] you know what I'm talking about [12:20] but those don't use midi to play it in the end [12:20] no they don't [12:20] nobody has midi hardware in their device [12:20] so for game making [12:20] fine use whatever [12:20] after that there's no midi issue [12:20] so? [12:20] the engine is a game development toolkit too [12:20] engine includes runtime plus editor and manipulator [12:20] Son_Goku: fine, that can be shipped in whatever form [12:20] Son_Goku: after the game is done [12:20] yes, yes [12:21] but he was approached on making the engine tools snapped too [12:21] * Son_Goku shrugs [12:21] Son_Goku: is there an actual issue? [12:21] Son_Goku: what is the actual issue then? [12:21] Son_Goku: it's not midi [12:21] Son_Goku: ah, well, that's another story [12:21] Son_Goku: I think that's really phase 2 [12:21] Son_Goku: phase one is a format for games to sell and play anywhere [12:21] of course, when the engine tooling renders the output game, it's not using midi [12:21] that would be stupid [12:25] Son_Goku: one thing gaming sucks about is cross-buy [12:25] Son_Goku: I got stardew valley on gog [12:25] Son_Goku: I dont want to re-buy on other platforms [12:25] yeah [12:26] Son_Goku: gog<->steam connect is the step in that direction [12:26] Son_Goku: I'd love to see gog<->snap as well if they can do it [12:27] Son_Goku: I think it could be a boom for snaps [12:27] Son_Goku: seed your snap library with your gog games [12:27] Son_Goku: show that it works [12:27] that'd be hard though [12:27] Son_Goku: show that it is convenient [12:27] Son_Goku: why? [12:27] because the snap store API is unstable [12:27] Son_Goku: and who would be affected by that? [12:28] gogs mainly [12:28] no one wants to deal with that shit [12:28] Son_Goku: there's no api for something like connect, if there was anything like this happening that API would be stable [12:28] Son_Goku: besides, it is a specialized api that only two people would use [12:28] Son_Goku: (gog, humble bundle, maybe steam) [12:28] Son_Goku: as snap developer or user nobody would see that [12:28] Son_Goku: I think it's compelling [12:29] it is compelling [12:29] as long no one breaks it :) [12:30] Son_Goku: I think after you "own" it it's not going to be broken even if the connection part is disabled for some reason [12:30] Son_Goku: I should try to snap that doom game [12:30] Son_Goku: doom == dosbox + data [12:30] that game would be relatively easy to do [12:30] but first... [12:30] spring cleaning === jkridner|pd is now known as jkridner === grumble is now known as Guest52475 === rumble is now known as grumble [17:38] PR snapd#3080 closed: interfaces: remove old API [17:39] PR snapd#3068 closed: boot: log error in KernelOrOsRebootRequired