=== Guest27472 is now known as ariver [03:06] ;) [03:52] eyes are crossing ! Time ! [03:53] hello again bash [03:53] time for sleep? [04:48] good morning to all [04:51] new xenial kernel [04:51] !info linux-image-generic xenial [04:51] linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.70.76 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 13 kB [04:54] morning baizon [04:55] 75mb update this morning / new kernel [05:15] hi lotuspsychje [05:24] morning philipballew [05:45] morning acheron-a & glebihan [05:45] hello lotuspsychje [06:08] morning lotuspsychje [06:09] Good morning [06:09] hey EriC^^ & lordievader [06:09] you guys all sleep well? [06:09] morning lordievader [06:10] yeah [06:10] Hey lotuspsychje, EriC^^ [06:10] Quite okay. [06:10] You? [06:10] great here [06:28] morning BobbyJr [06:31] hi all [06:34] hey ducasse [06:34] all ok in norway? [06:39] lotuspsychje: all good, thanks. how are you today? [06:42] great here ducasse [06:42] 5 days off [06:43] ahh, nice. any plans, or just relax? [06:47] ducasse: and enjoying the weather [06:47] 22 package updates for zesty today, getting closer to release... === lotuspsychje_ is now known as lotuspsychje [06:51] ducasse: 75mb on xenial here [06:52] that was with a kernel update? i got that on yakkety but not zesty. [07:00] yep [07:00] !info linux-image-generic xenial [07:00] linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.70.76 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 13 kB [07:11] http://news.softpedia.com/news/linux-kernels-4-10-6-4-9-18-lts-and-4-4-57-lts-released-with-updated-drivers-514312.shtml [07:18] lotuspsychje: btw, i applied for membership in the wiki team, but haven't heard anything yet. i wrote up some stuff for the grep page, maybe i can submit it to someone in #ubuntu-doc? [07:19] ducasse: cool, but not sure those guys are alive there [07:20] i don't even know if that is where the wiki people hang out, or if that's for things like the server guide etc [07:20] ducasse: perhaps the mailing list or so? [07:21] which one? the launchpad page for the wiki team says there isn't one... [07:23] hmmm [07:23] i can try contacting the admins, ask if i can just finish it up and submit it to them. [07:24] cant find neither [07:24] ah [07:24] ducasse: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/Contact [07:25] not the same team :) [07:26] ah [07:26] aha, seems they use the same mailing list. i'll subscribe to that :) [07:27] :p [07:28] lets hope its a bit active [07:28] easy to check... [07:29] seems quite busy. [08:42] http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/03/rock-deepin-music-now-available-snap-app [08:43] handy stuff those snaps [08:52] http://fossforce.com/2017/03/fedex-will-pay-5-install-flash-machine/ [08:52] wth? [08:55] lol [10:15] Hi folks [10:20] hi BluesKaj, just as you arrive traffic picks up again, after over an hour quiet :) [10:21] hi ducasse ...am i being followed ? :-) [10:22] quick, cloak your traffic with tor! ;) [10:24] I am cloaked , but it's slow to enable hence the IP leak [10:26] I've noticed that bug for a while [10:26] I'm not concerned tho [10:27] i hadn't noticed, actually. not that i really care. [10:29] suppose if I was concerned I could connect via vpn [10:31] i could as well, i really should use my pia subscription more. i'm not getting my money out of it as it is, i hardly use it. [10:31] tor isn't my much to my liking [10:32] PIA is cheap tho and worth the money [10:33] not a tor fan either, no need for it. [10:33] my renewal comes up in 2 weeks [10:34] mine is just around new year, as i got my first year as a christmas present. easy to remember :) [10:39] some servers are better than others IME , at least here in NA, haven't used many of the euro or asian servers [10:43] i get really good speeds from the euro servers, only slightly less than with no vpn. [10:44] my dsl is quite slow do I don't notice any difference at all [10:44] do=so [10:45] but I have plenty of time [10:45] got some good news from my isp yesterday, they've increased my tier with 30mbps, and from next month hbo nordic will be included in my subscription at no extra charge. [10:46] nice :-) [10:49] plus they've included their own streaming thing. not too much interesting stuff there, but some, and it's free :) [11:55] good afternoon to all [11:56] hi lotuspsychje [11:57] hey pauljw [11:58] sunny weather over here [11:59] http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/03/stacer-ubuntu-system-cleaner-update [12:00] pretty nice app, too bad its not in our repos [12:05] autoclean autoremove ftw [12:05] hey there BluesKaj [12:05] welcome ikevin [12:05] hi lotuspsychje [12:06] ty [12:06] ikevin: here is where we discuss topics, to serve #ubuntu better [12:06] BluesKaj: indeed, a bit like bleachbit also a GUI for autoclean etc [12:07] ikevin: what distro are you on? [12:08] i have a lot of my regular commands aliased so a gui is not needed [12:08] lotuspsychje, i use mint for work and ubuntu for personnal use [12:08] BluesKaj: same here, but some new users might like GUI apps like that, looks pretty neat that stacer [12:08] i've some servers on ubuntu server and debian too [12:08] ikevin: LTS or non-lts? [12:09] non lts, i always update to the last stable [12:09] so, for servers i use lts [12:09] but* [12:09] ikevin: cool! mint as personal choice, or your work, works with it by default? [12:10] personnal choice, i'm the founder of my compagny [12:10] oh nice, what do you do ikevin? [12:11] i'm developper [12:11] neat [12:12] i wonder what munich will do now..stick to ubuntu or leave to windows again [12:14] https://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/government [12:18] https://itsfoss.com/munich-linux-failure/ [12:18] costs plenty in man hours and money to switch OSs on that scale [12:19] in some case it need some specifics software to be developped [12:19] BluesKaj: true, but i wonder how safe the network is when staying years on broken windows boxesµ [12:21] howdy brunch875 [12:24] lotuspsychje, the switch to MS is really unfortunate, there must be a lot of pressure by MS lobbyists in Bonn and Berlin, not just Munich. It's very disappointing. :/ [12:25] BluesKaj: yeah think so too [12:26] the MS anti viruses companies are gonna gave a field day now [12:26] lol [12:27] perhaps they should have chosen vanilla ubuntu instead of limux [12:29] afternoon pavlushka [12:31] lotuspsychje, I think the Munich city council will more than regret their decision , W10 is an awful OS [12:31] afternoon lotuspsychje :) [12:31] lol [12:32] pavlushka: you joined at the right time :p [12:33] BluesKaj: it sure is, we will follow its developments in germany [12:33] lotuspsychje: that's I am, the person who joins at the right time :p [12:33] lol [12:33] OerHeks: ! [12:33] lotuspsychje, I'm sure you'll keep us informed :-) [12:34] BluesKaj: my eyes are pointed to the latest daily :p [12:34] hello hello :-) [12:35] hey OerHeks [12:36] just on time for some ubuntu vanilla coffee with a !cookie [12:36] hi OerHeks [12:37] for those who didnt see this mornings url: wth..http://fossforce.com/2017/03/fedex-will-pay-5-install-flash-machine/ [12:37] * lotuspsychje is grabbing 5$ greedy :p [12:51] they would need to add some zeroes behind that to get me to install flash on my systems :) [12:51] wahaha [12:51] install flash and get 10 exploits free with it [13:11] damn [13:14] lotuspsychje, + some freeze :p [13:21] brb [13:50] wildpenguin = crazytux? [13:52] i was wondering exactly the same thing. [13:52] something like that [13:52] smells like troll :p [13:53] "i've installed mate and now i want lubuntu" sounds all too familiar [13:53] lol [13:54] he is on kali. [13:54] he said mate earlier, but he knows well enough what we support... [13:55] i surely saw him changing nicks before [13:56] ♫ lonely people [13:56] from...? too lazy to check. [13:57] servers (freenode)/#debian.log:jan 14 09:44:24 * WildPenguin is now known as CrazyTux [13:58] surprise... [13:59] @1127 http://her0.be/index.php?action=logfile&date=20170114 [14:00] #debian and #ubuntu troll installing mate, 16.10,lubuntu and kali lol [14:01] afternoon acheron-a [14:01] lotuspsychje: should we ask for lsb-release output? [14:02] ducasse: perhaps he will outsmart us? [14:02] hello lotuspsychje [14:02] maybe, maybe not. [14:03] ducasse: maybe trick him with cat issue lol [14:03] i'll wait until he asks something. [14:04] great [14:05] no luck, he left :p [14:05] i noticed. [14:08] bbl sunwalk [14:08] lotuspsychje: enjoy! :) [15:50] Update your "Eject" package. Eject could be made to run programs as an administrator. Affects versions: 12.04 LTS, 14.04 LTS, 16.04 LTS, and 16.10 [15:57] !info eject [15:57] eject (source: eject): ejects CDs and operates CD-Changers under Linux. In component main, is important. Version 2.1.5+deb1+cvs20081104-13.1ubuntu0.16.04.1 (xenial), package size 23 kB, installed size 152 kB [16:14] we should have up to date !nvidia & !amd/ati triggers when things change on ubuntu versions [16:14] lotuspsychje: yeah, that would be good [16:15] all the explaining we need to do right now [16:19] !amd [16:19] Open driver for AMD cards: amdgpu (cards >= GCN1.2 aka GCN 3rd gen), radeon (older cards). Closed drivers: amdgpu-pro (>= GCN1.2) fglrx (older cards, unsupported by AMD in 16.04+). For info on GCN levels, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units . For fglrx info, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/AMD [16:19] this is alsowhere the hwe gets users confused [16:19] 14.04.5 is an archive snapshot and a kerenl/X stack [16:19] right [16:19] amd trigger seems updated [16:20] !nvidia [16:20] For nvidia and matrox graphics cards, see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VideoDriverHowto . For AMD/ATI graphics cards, see « /msg ubottu ati » and « /msg ubottu fglrxmissing » [16:20] lets check wiki date here [16:20] 7/2016 not bad [16:21] 12/2016 for amd [16:21] looking pretty good [16:22] if only people read and understood the links :) [16:23] yeah, thats tricky indeed [16:23] i got an ack to update the 14.04 release notes [16:24] what you mean nacc? [16:25] to clarify flgrx support [16:25] fglrx :) [16:25] kk [16:27] nacc: "catalyst" was easier to remember and spell :) [16:28] heh [16:31] nacc: anything usefull here? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RadeonDriver [16:35] ah yes htat's good [16:35] but it really should have been in the release notes [16:36] with !radeon triggers forward to !amd [16:36] and !releasenotes goes to xenial right now [16:37] I just spotted the tiobe index [16:37] javascript is going up onoooooo [16:37] I had hoped to see Rust over there [16:37] lotuspsychje: grrr, really need the latter to be per-release :) [16:37] but if C is going down so quickly... what is ubuntu being developed on? [16:38] go [16:38] nacc: yeah i know.. [16:38] isn't go interpreted? [16:38] brunch875: you can statically compile it, as well [16:38] brb [16:38] brunch875: also, i don't trust any such garbage sites :) the kernel is still in c [16:39] brunch875: and 'ubuntu being developed on' is a nonsense question -- every language under the sun [16:39] ah yes, I know :) [16:39] but I had Qt in mind [16:39] which implies C++ for the most part [16:39] which means performance! [16:40] since nowadays a lot of applications are developed in javascript, I'm full of fears [16:40] death to electron [16:40] death to electron! [16:42] updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TrustyTahr/ReleaseNotes lotuspsychje [16:42] brunch875: i don't know of any end-user applications that are 'developed' in javascript -- do you mean web apps/phone apps? [16:44] nacc: I was mostly referring to apps such as atom, the discord client or the newest skype [16:44] !info atom [16:44] Package atom does not exist in xenial [16:44] !info discord [16:44] Package discord does not exist in xenial [16:45] !info skype [16:45] Package skype does not exist in xenial [16:45] haha surely you know what skype is :p [16:45] none of those are relevant to 'ubuntu being developed on' [16:45] as none are in ubuntu [16:46] fair enough! But you understand my fear of ubuntu hopping onto this trend, right? [16:47] no [16:47] you mentioned 3 applications, none of which are in ubuntu [16:47] and aren't in zesty either [16:47] skype is a web based application, it can possibly be reasonable to write in js [16:47] for the web-based client, which is all that will exist eventually [16:47] but even then, it's not *all* js [16:48] there's still a server side application doing all the heavy lifting [16:48] and i feel like you are saying all of ubuntu is some monolithic thing [16:48] we still have fortran compilers [16:48] and COBOL [16:49] so will ubuntu allow you to build your app using whatever junk is out there? [16:49] probably [16:49] what I feel like is ubuntu is mostly a performing operating system [16:49] will ubuntu ship an app that builds with that junk? if an upstream decides to [16:49] without excessive overhead [16:49] ubuntu does not dictate what upstreams do or do not decide to do [16:49] who decides what goes on upstream? [16:50] ... [16:50] upstream? [16:50] errr lemme rephrase [16:50] brunch875: do you know how open source distributions work? :) [16:50] who decides what upstreams we get? [16:50] nacc: for the most part, no [16:50] brunch875: ah ok [16:51] brunch875: upstreams are (generally) distribution agnostic [16:51] e.g., a github project [16:51] distributions pacakge those upstreams for easy consumability by users [16:51] so packagers decide what upstream exist [16:51] in ubuntu, almost all of them are from debian [16:52] so as long as debian doesn't become senile, we're good [16:54] ubuntu also does some of its own packaging and goes ahead of debian, where debian's rules might be a bit restrictive [16:54] and snaps will change things further [16:54] is appimage support for ubuntu planned? [16:55] ducasse: is that a flatpak/snap competitor? [16:55] yep. [16:55] i noticed flatpak support exists, so just curious. [16:56] yeah, i htink jbicha got flatpak support in, although in universe (snap support is in main of course) [16:58] ducasse: hrm, not seeing it in 17.04, but their site mentions they support ubuntu [16:58] ah they have their own .deb :/ [16:58] ah nice :) maybe 17.10, then :) i just noticed it wasn't in zesty here. [16:59] https://github.com/probonopd/AppImageKit/issues/339 [17:00] thanks, nacc [17:00] looks like debian packaging is forthcoming? [17:00] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=854902 [17:00] Debian bug 854902 in wnpp "ITP: appimagekit -- package desktop applications as AppImages that run on common Linux-based distributions" [Wishlist,Open] [17:00] ducasse: i presume we'd get it automatically after that via sync [17:01] right. sounds reasonable. [17:02] i think canonical has a vested interest in snaps; flatpak and appimage and others are competitors, and i think it's all a question of which wins the market share [17:02] i don't think it'd be great to have 2 or 3 of these formats out there [17:02] i think clear linux has their own as well [17:02] let us hope one wins clearly [17:03] tbh, i hope it won't be snaps [17:03] why's that, ducasse? [17:04] flatpak allows anyone to set up a repo and provides the necessary software, not so for snaps. has to be the ubuntu store. [17:04] So! Anyone using 17 yet? If so, stable? [17:04] 16 has been a shitfest for me, was hoping 17 would be a step up. [17:04] davidj: Using it. I think I had more crashes in 16 [17:05] davidj: it's been stable here, but so was 16.04/16.10. [17:05] Hm. Nothing but crashes for me perpetually. [17:05] I've only had one single crash and I believe it was my mistake [17:05] * davidj nods. Well, guess I'll give it a try instead of sincerely contemplating swapping to windows ;) [17:05] ducasse: that will be changing [17:05] ducasse: aiui [17:05] nacc: oh? good. [17:05] ducasse: yeah, 'on-premise' store [17:05] I'm a big fan of snaps because on how the plugs seem to work [17:06] ducasse: i think you can actually do it already, just requires some setup [17:06] I only dislike that confinement sometimes goes in the way [17:07] ie: can't click links on hexchat [17:07] have to select, copy and paste [17:07] with the argument that once it 'just works', confinement is a huge win [17:07] brunch875: yeah, i assume that's a *bus issue ? [17:07] nacc: no idea, never debugged it : [17:07] but probably [17:08] brunch875: the whole desktop side of things is tricky [17:08] and snaps/flatpak/etc show how messy desktop has gotten [17:08] dependencies not being expressed, etc [17:08] that's the problem with already developed technologies [17:08] it's hard to retract from mistakes [17:08] * nacc wonders if they've fixed the issue where you can't just use two apache-based snaps because they compete for port 80 [17:11] I wonder if snaps will ever 'just work' or if confinement will become a never-ending headache [17:12] where many installation instructions will prompt to "disable confinement" [17:13] brunch875: it's only been a year or so :) [17:13] brunch875: give it time [17:13] brunch875: well of the more aggressive model (UC16) [17:13] nacc: believe me, I'm already suprised on how good it works [17:13] otherwise I wouldn't use it over the 'regular' applications [17:13] yeah, they have done some amazing work, imo -- some things are way easier [17:14] esp. where upstream has owned the application, then you get the latest all the time, if you want (edge channel) [17:14] heck, I can even drag-and-drop pictures to telegram [17:15] but then I think about pip3 [17:15] and I really wonder how's that going to work with snaps [17:16] Yay. 17 is already more stable than 16 was for me. Thanks @brunch875 [17:16] No graphics issues lingering. Then again, only booted a few moments. Let's see how it fairs :p [17:16] davidj: already installed? Haha! Don't thank me, thank the developers :p [17:16] True, true. [17:16] nacc: didnt know you always was a wiki edit member? [17:16] Curious — anyone ever have issues with scroll wheel speeds? Razer synapse. Was going to try imwheel..., just didn't want to have to make a config for every program. [17:17] * davidj despises tinkering, I think I'm on the wrong OS :/ [17:17] evening baizon [17:18] brunch875: the snap list grows by the minute..big list already [17:18] nacc: nice work on the wiki [17:18] lotuspsychje: np [17:19] lotuspsychje: how can I check? 'snap find' only shows 4 entries [17:19] brunch875: give it a keyword [17:19] nacc: does the wiki team have a special irc channel? or you subscribed to the mailing? [17:19] well hello there lotuspsychje [17:19] lotuspsychje: i don't think so -- i just asked timo in #ubuntu-devel [17:20] aha, you got connections nacc, good to know :p [17:20] lotuspsychje: :) [17:20] brunch875: try 'snap find searchterm' [17:20] http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/03/rock-deepin-music-now-available-snap-app [17:20] lotuspsychje: and i'm a core-dev, so i can help usher fixes in [17:20] ducasse: yeah, searching for 'a' got me a couple of entries [17:21] ducasse: ¨^handy for us wiki edits [17:21] not meant to be braggy, meant to be helpful :) [17:21] we know mate dont worry [17:22] we are simply the best lol [17:22] heh [17:22] time for snap to get that latest snaps search again grrr [17:22] snap find * or something [17:23] yeah, i think te biggest issue for snaps is all tooling [17:23] snap was broken for a while, and the 'api' keeps changing [17:23] man, the snap 'find' command works in mysterious ways... [17:23] it's very much a wip [17:23] rename it to "snap god" [17:23] i think the software GUI thing can also search for snaps, but i'm not sure [17:23] good ol apt is always stable [17:24] * nacc found a nice bug in it recently (well not in apt itself, but in ubuntu) [17:24] nacc: yes it does, and requiers ubuntu one account to install [17:24] lotuspsychje: right, so you can login to the store, i guess [17:25] lemme test that deepin snap holdon [17:26] brunch875: my guess as to the link issue with hexchat, is that, as you say, it requires mediation by someting to say what a link means to hexchat (or hexchat could technically ship their own browser :) [17:26] brunch875: in confined mode, that is, since it only sees hexchat (presumably) and its libs in the squashfs it runs in [17:27] yep, deepin-music showsup ubuntu-software [17:27] oh, so hexchat isn't launching firefox because it doesn't exist [17:27] witty [17:27] asking my ubuntu one account [17:27] brunch875: right, in confined mode, it presumably does not [17:27] lotuspsychje: I got two snaps and it never asked me for login [17:28] brunch875: did you install it the sudo way? [17:28] brunch875: only certain ones do [17:28] brunch875: i think there was some discussion in #snappy of the equivalent of a 'browser' plug [17:28] ah I see [17:28] or interface [17:28] so that you can say, i need a browser to exist (or if it exists, connect me to it) in your snap [17:28] and then you send browser requests to it [17:28] nacc: what about :// urls? [17:28] it is interesting how it ends up looking like a massive message-passing thing [17:28] brunch875: i don't know any of the details, tbh :) [17:30] and what i do recall is out of date quickly it feels like :) [17:30] * nacc is not on that team directly [17:40] the new eject exploit oerheks suggested us: https://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-3246-1/ [17:41] solution: deprecate optical drives forever [17:44] lotuspsychje@RooTBooK:~$ apt-cache policy eject [17:44] eject: [17:44] Geïnstalleerd: 2.1.5+deb1+cvs20081104-13.1ubuntu0.16.04.1 [17:44] im good :p [17:44] !info eject xenial [17:44] eject (source: eject): ejects CDs and operates CD-Changers under Linux. In component main, is important. Version 2.1.5+deb1+cvs20081104-13.1ubuntu0.16.04.1 (xenial), package size 23 kB, installed size 152 kB [17:47] yeah its true that generic guy is here all day..not sure who or what solved or not... [17:48] lotuspsychje: ah ok, thanks! [17:48] lotuspsychje: asking 10 questions/minute... [17:48] sometimes i have irc dejavu's of usernames that keep comming back with all the same questions lol [17:49] Dreaman is on my hitlist right now (mentally) [17:49] we have nightmares of crazytux alias wildpenguin lol [17:49] lol [17:50]