[00:32] <bluesabre> cyphermox, heya
[07:09] <flocculant> knome: apart from a cow on the slideshow it looks ok 
[11:45] <knome> flocculant, that'll have to slip...
[13:43] <flocculant> knome: I guessed that - normal for art ;) I assume not slipping past 13th April though :D
[13:45] <knome> well, i don't know
[13:45] <knome> :P
[13:45] <knome> i'll have to see...
[13:46] <flocculant> personally couldn't care if there's an animal on there or not :)
[13:50] <knome> yep
[13:50] <knome> it's nice to have but it's a lot of work and if nobody seems to have the time...
[13:51] <flocculant> yea for sure
[13:52] <flocculant> and not many people doing it either
[13:52] <flocculant> eg you :D
[13:53] <knome> ;)
[13:53] <knome> anyway, bbl
[13:53] <knome> astraljava+1 is popping over
[13:53] <knome> -->
[13:56] <flocculant> maybe we should think about opening art up to the community - early in the cycle - see what comes up
[18:22] <knome> i'm open to that (no pun intended), as long as we make clear the art direction is chosen by the team (or the artwork team more specifically) etc etc bureaucratic things
[18:23] <knome> the problem with this has been for us - and other ubuntu teams - that the submission quality isn't always the best, or the stuff isn't suitable or something else
[18:23] <flocculant> yea - wouldn't want it any other way
[18:23] <knome> or that there aren't a lot of submission to start with...
[18:23] <flocculant> of course
[18:24] <knome> the worst situation with this is that we end up not using any submissions
[18:24] <flocculant> obviously asking for contributions the week before we want them doesn't help
[18:24] <knome> this means we both don't get any help with the workload but we make more work for ourselves
[18:25] <knome> and that we then potentially (and likely) have to deal with explaining why none of it was accepted
[18:25] <knome> yeah
[18:25] <knome> but one recent example is the #lovexubuntu competition
[18:25] <flocculant> yup
[18:25] <knome> that had *very* low threshold to join/submit, but we didn't end up getting that many submissions
[18:25] <flocculant> hence the bit in between the - - above :)
[18:26] <knome> well again, remember that the #lovexubuntu contest was open for many months too
[18:26] <knome> and still we only got that much material
[18:26] <flocculant> mmm
[18:27] <knome> the wallpaper contests we've ran have been "okay"
[18:27] <knome> i mean, there could have been more submissions
[18:27] <knome> i'm so happy we limited submissions per user though
[18:28] <knome> and would probably crank that down even more with the next wallpaper contest
[18:28] <knome> but then again community wallpapers are something we ship *in addition* to the default one
[18:29] <flocculant> just wonder if perhaps we call wallpaper early - using the same 'process' as last time - that's perhaps something we can not worry too much about?
[18:29] <knome> so from the team's POV, their perceived quality doesn't need to be as great as for something that goes into the installer slideshow
[18:29] <flocculant> but then again - why not choose 1 - default 2 - remaining community set from the submissions? 
[18:29] <knome> you lost me there
[18:30] <knome> but yes, if we do a wallpaper contest for 18.04, we should totally open that for submissions when the development cycle starts
[18:30] <knome> the problem the last time was that we didn't have the technology ready
[18:30] <flocculant> what I am saying is if time for art is a problem - also have that in the mix
[18:31] <knome> right...
[18:31] <flocculant> team then picks 1 for default wallpaper - the rest we pick end up as community
[18:31] <knome> mhm
[18:31] <knome> well, the wallpaper is doable
[18:31] <knome> it's always about the same amount of time
[18:31] <flocculant> just have to say - we want something simple for default - not a picture of a stormy mountain
[18:31] <knome> so it's easier to schedule
[18:32] <knome> the animal... well it kind of is the sameish amount of time too, but we're often doing late with the slideshow content too
[18:32] <knome> and it's less prominent
[18:32] <knome> even if it's shown to everybody
[18:32] <flocculant> right - but 16.10's wallpaper screwed it for people with less than perfect eyes and messages - which would have been more noticeable if it wasn't at the end
[18:33] <flocculant> and yea - ack on animal thing
[18:33] <knome> yep, i'm not saying we shouldn't improve on the artwork timing
[18:34] <flocculant> yep - I understand
[18:34] <knome> i also don't know how others than me perceive it, but there's something magical into building a release - and getting the wallpaper in later in the cycle - not day 0
[18:34] <flocculant> just throwing ideas out - in the hope it helps us all in the long run :)
[18:34] <flocculant> oh yea 
[18:34] <knome> but later of course being rather before UIF
[18:35] <knome> but we've hit that mark relatively consistently :P
[18:35] <knome> or a few days later - those days aren't going to make that huge difference
[18:35] <flocculant> I'd not want to see release too early - doesn't mean we can't decide early
[18:35] <knome> yeah, though keeping things private is a bit meh :)
[18:36] <flocculant> anyway - got some batter and a frying pan I need to join together for pancakes - biab :p
[18:36] <knome> anyway, to develop the idea about getting community submissions for the installer slideshow...
[18:36] <flocculant> knome: it's not private - it's just not public yet
[18:36] <knome> instead of asking for "final artwork" kind of stuff, we could ask for ideas
[18:36] <flocculant> yep
[18:36] <flocculant> biab :)
[18:37] <knome> and if we decide an idea is worth pursuing, both do it and involve the idea submitter with the process
[18:37] <knome> hf :)
[18:37]  * knome goes do some real work
[19:03] <flocculant> that sounds like a useful thought :)
[19:09] <knome> that way we can both get ideas from the community (and not come up with them all ourselves) and be on the controls for what the output looks like
[19:10] <knome> and we'll also lower the threshold for contributing as we aren't telling we expect something that is already polished/ready
[19:12] <flocculant> yup
[19:12] <flocculant> worth trying I guess
[21:45] <tracker7> Hello. Is xubuntu-core maintained?
[21:46] <knome> it is a community project, not official (yet)
[21:46] <tracker7> ok, but when I google "xubuntu-core", I get stuff from 2015, and there isn't anything on the xubuntu page that is recent, so I'm curious if it's still maintained (and should I use it)
[21:47] <knome> you should only use it "if you know what you are doing"
[21:47] <knome> again, it's not *yet* official; we're pending on somebody else to get moving forward with it
[21:47] <tracker7> So the current "release", even it's old, is still ok?
[21:48] <tracker7> I mean "apt-get install xubuntu-core"
[21:48] <knome> you should consult Unit193 for the details
[21:48] <knome> but that should be just as good as it was a few years ago
[21:48] <tracker7> ok.
[21:49] <tracker7> Are there any other "core" distros?
[21:49] <knome> there are small distros if that's what you are looking for
[21:50] <tracker7> I'm looking for something that 1) I can use an IDE in, 2) I can install Docker in, 3) is tiny, and 4) makes sense to run as a VBox VM. And I've always liked xubuntu.
[22:10] <Unit193> tracker7: The seed is indeed maintained as part of the seed, I'd also recommend installing the task, not the metapackage.  The ISOs, community ISOs, are maintained still.
[22:18] <Unit193> bluesabre: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/test-rebuild-20170322.1-gcc7/+build/12301877 :P
[22:24]  * bluesabre seems to be terrible at hiding
[22:25] <knome> yep.
[22:27] <Unit193> Or I'm really good at finding. >_>
[22:27] <Unit193> I'd like to blame knome, he pinged me.
[22:27] <knome> :P
[22:28] <bluesabre> :D
[22:30] <bluesabre> suppose I should get to fixing that
[22:30] <knome> fix eeeet
[22:33] <Unit193> Or convince someone else to.
[22:33] <knome> good luck with that. ;)
[22:35] <Unit193> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=825658 heh, he wants seamless!
[22:36] <bluesabre> We probably suggested includeing that patch
[22:36] <bluesabre> dang it
[22:36] <bluesabre> :D
[22:37] <Unit193> Doesn't matter, xfwm will be fixed soon enough, maybe.
[22:37] <bluesabre> one day
[22:37] <knome> a strong maybe
[22:37] <Unit193> xfwm4 4.13 has it, but that's a bit iffy.
[22:38] <bluesabre> what could possibly go wrong
[22:39] <Unit193> Push to zesty!