[00:54] <qengho> clvx_: hi!
[04:57] <hikiko> hi
[07:16] <Trevinho> Laney: hey... Is it just me or logging-out/shutting down in zeisty doesn't work?
[07:17] <Trevinho> hikiko: hey, can you please merge your unity branch with trunk? it seems it has some conflicts...
[08:02] <Laney> morning
[08:02] <Laney> Trevinho: don't know how my computer turned off last night then :-)
[08:02] <Laney> (or every night)
[08:02] <Laney> in other words it works for me, sorry
[08:03] <Trevinho> Laney: mh, in my VM it happens like it shows the dialog and then it goes back to lighdm...
[08:03] <Trevinho> it's weird
[08:03] <Trevinho> like some wrong dbus call...
[08:03] <Trevinho> I need to debug that
[08:04] <Laney> good idea
[08:04] <Trevinho> yeah, it was already something I started, but noticed nothing weird from checking just dbus
[08:05] <Trevinho> mmgmg, it looks is something in my branch :|
[08:05] <Laney> :D
[08:06] <seb128> hey Trevinho Laney, how are you?
[08:06] <Trevinho> hey seb128 good!
[08:06] <Laney> hey seb128!
[08:06] <Laney> EXCELLENTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
[08:06] <Trevinho> today is the Balinese new year...
[08:06] <seb128> :-)
[08:06] <Laney> what about you
[08:06] <Trevinho> So happy new year to me :-D
[08:06] <seb128> Trevinho, so you are having a day off? ;-)
[08:06] <Trevinho> Nooo... Working, you don't believe me! :-)
[08:07] <seb128> Laney, I'm great! it's sunny outside and gf made us some crepes this morning
[08:07] <seb128> good start of day :-)
[08:07] <Laney> nice
[08:07] <Trevinho> seb128: so, it's actually just doing some preying in the morning...
[08:07] <Trevinho> and... I'm also trying to work with a standing desk
[08:08] <seb128> yeah, it's difficult to sit in the pool
[08:08] <seb128> :p
[08:08] <seb128> you mean you put your laptop on the side so you can look at IRC while you drink you cocktail between swmins? ;-)
[08:12] <Trevinho> seb128: check telegram... :-D
[08:13] <Trevinho> seb128: there's a mozilian that can testify
[09:10] <flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers
[09:10] <seb128> hey flexiondotorg, how are you?
[09:11] <flexiondotorg> OK thanks. Early meeting on Wednesdays. Have had tea yet.
[09:11]  * flexiondotorg goes to put the kettle on
[09:11] <flexiondotorg> seb128 How are you?
[09:11] <seb128> I'm very good thanks!
[09:11] <flexiondotorg> Excellent?
[09:11] <flexiondotorg> Win at tennis? :-)
[09:12] <seb128> lol, not even but weather is great and my gf made crepes this morning, so good start of day
[09:12] <seb128> and I might go to tennis tonight ;-)
[09:12] <seb128> we have a team competition on sunday and need to practice a bit doubles before that
[09:13] <flexiondotorg> Nice.
[09:13] <flexiondotorg> I used to play.
[09:14] <flexiondotorg> seb128 Do you know why Unity 7 has changed what it reports via XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP?
[09:16] <seb128> to be a list you mean?
[09:17] <seb128> I think the main motivation was that some services should be use in unity 7&8
[09:17] <seb128> used
[09:17] <seb128> and some are specific to one of those desktops only
[09:17] <flexiondotorg> Yeah.
[09:17] <seb128> so unity7 claims being unity & unity7
[09:17] <Laney> Unity 7 and Unity 8 both had "Unity" there, which meant it was impossible to use XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP to differentiate.
[09:17] <seb128> so you can pick which one
[09:18] <flexiondotorg> Right, I've seen lots of fallout.
[09:18] <Laney> Fix it.
[09:18] <flexiondotorg> For example, all Electron applicattions now have broken Indicators.
[09:18] <flexiondotorg> I've fixed what is in my immediate realm of control.
[09:19] <Laney> Someone can control it
[09:19] <flexiondotorg> I'm going to submit patches to Electron, but it will take time to trickle down.
[09:20] <flexiondotorg> First to Electron itself and then only when applications get rebuilt against the new version.
[09:21] <Laney> If there's some common launcher or something then you can put a hack in there, otherwise fixing the applications is what needs to happen
[09:21] <seb128> it's a bit late to rollback in any case
[09:22] <flexiondotorg> Just sharing what I've found.
[09:22] <seb128> yeah, thanks
[09:22] <flexiondotorg> Dropbox was also broken, now fixed in Zesty.
[09:22] <seb128> well it's good to give some time for apps to adapt their code/be fixed before enforcing the change that impact them
[09:22] <flexiondotorg> I wonder what else might surface.
[09:22] <seb128> but I think we had that
[09:23] <seb128> we probably didn't do the best possible job at reaching out to upstreams in advance
[09:23] <seb128> or even to find out what code is impacted
[09:23] <seb128> but limited ressources, etc
[09:24] <Laney> yeah fair enough, I could have emailed
[09:24] <seb128> Laney, I was not blaming you/anyone
[09:25] <seb128> it's always tricky with those sort of changes
[09:25] <seb128> if you don't put them in place you don't find out what is having issues and upstream don't get the motivation to fix their code
[09:25] <seb128> but when you do there are always bits not ready and you bite users on the way
[09:25] <seb128> well at least we bite them in a non LTS cycle and hopefully by the LTS we are sorted out
[09:26] <Laney> This was the second round of enabling it too
[09:26] <Laney> we shook out many bugs last cycle, then reverted it and tried again in zesty
[09:27] <muktupavels> Any reason why it is Unity:Unity7 and not Unity7:Unity?
[09:28] <seb128> does it make a difference?
[09:29] <seb128> do we have code around that can deal with a list but behave differently according to the order?
[09:29] <muktupavels> It could if bug will ever get accepted - https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=746592
[09:30] <muktupavels> and to be consistent? GNOME-Classic:GNOME, GNOME-Flashback:GNOME...
[09:30] <Laney> I guess some things might search the list in order
[09:30] <Laney> but I don't know of a case where it would have mattered yet
[09:30] <Laney> usually it's g_strv_contains-style searched
[09:39] <seb128> it might be worth filing a bug on launchpad if you feel like the order should be changed
[09:43] <muktupavels> well I think that "base desktop" should be at end. It might not matter today, but could in future. For what product should I open bug?
[09:44] <Laney> gnome-session
[09:44] <Laney> you can find the code in the package, should be trivial to submit a patch
[10:00] <muktupavels> Laney: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-session/+bug/1680008
[10:01] <muktupavels> Laney: submit patch where?
[10:01] <Laney> to the sponsorship queue
[10:02] <Laney> I think there's a VCS for gnome-session, you could use that or just attach a debdiff
[10:03] <muktupavels> update 50_ubuntu_sessions.patch and attach it to bug?
[10:03] <Laney> if that's the one that has DesktopNames=... then sure
[10:04] <Laney> thanks!
[10:06] <muktupavels> why *.desktop have `:` and not `;` ?
[10:07] <muktupavels> Laney: i think it should be DesktopNames=Unity7;Unity;
[10:08] <Laney> does that get transformed to : by the session manager?
[10:08] <Laney> if so, then that's fine too
[10:08] <muktupavels> yes
[10:09] <Laney> cheers
[10:09] <muktupavels> only I dont know about *.session file
[10:09] <muktupavels> for that I will just change order
[10:12] <muktupavels> Laney: why not for zesty? why put that order in public release?
[10:12] <muktupavels> that will just allow apps to start depend on that order that could cause problems later, no?
[10:13] <muktupavels> Laney: patch attached, only changed desktop name lines...
[10:13] <Laney> thx
[10:13] <Laney> I don't feel super duper strongly about not changing it now, but I prefer not to make unnecessary changes when it gets close to a release
[10:13] <Laney> in the absence of any known problems ...
[11:30] <Sweetshark> ricotz: wrt to your patch at https://git.launchpad.net/~libreoffice/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/commit/?id=9e0a42d3988954042ba3baeb0fb8c4d82540f45d you said:
[11:30] <Sweetshark> ricotz -> Sweetshark, really?, it is a mismerge and the corresponding Suggests points to libreoffice-help (= 5.3)
[11:30] <Sweetshark> 1/ yet looking at https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-openoffice/libreoffice.git/tree/control.help.in shows Debian master to have exactly the same content (and had ever since Oct 2010), so how is this a mismerge?
[11:30] <Sweetshark> 2/ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/+bug/1662227/comments/27 suggests you consider this to fix bug 1662227. I see nobody having issues with this on zesty. Are you aware of anyone actually having issues _on zesty_ needing this change?
[11:30] <Sweetshark> ricotz: Asking because we are late in the cycle and shouldnt do any changes (let alone FFes) if they are not absolutely needed ...
[11:35] <ricotz> Sweetshark, to be clear, you merged these versioned Provides *this* cycle and missed to make this change, of course this is around for a longer time in debian, but this is simply because you haven't merged it
[11:36] <ricotz> Sweetshark, and look at the correct file ;-) https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-openoffice/libreoffice.git/tree/control.help.in?h=debian-experimental-5.3
[11:39] <ricotz> Sweetshark, another pointer to the corresponding Suggests https://git.launchpad.net/~libreoffice/ubuntu/+source/libreoffice/tree/control.in?h=ubuntu-zesty-5.3#n71
[11:43] <ricotz> this issue on *trusty* does not concern xenial and later
[11:47] <Sweetshark> ricotz: right. so its no issue on zesty and we shouldnt FFe for it. Or even have changes on the zesty branch as that will be the base for SRUs/security updates on zesty and after FF should really only ever have changes that solve endusers problems. Right?
[11:48] <ricotz> Sweetshark, the bug you mentioned has nothing to do with the change I pushed
[11:49] <ricotz> Sweetshark, are you understanding the change and my reasoning?
[11:49] <ricotz> this is actually *fixing* and internal dependency between libreoffice and libreoffice-l10n
[11:49] <ricotz> s/and/an
[11:52] <ricotz> Sweetshark, I have no idea how to explain this more, I already pasted the lines in question here
[12:07] <Sweetshark> ricotz: whops. Yeah, right branch helps. Explaining the patch is not needed (and not what I asked ;) ), really. All I care about is if this is known to impact endusers on zesty (and how and how bad). "I dont know" or "I dont have any reports" is a perfectly valid answer to that ...
[12:12] <ricotz> Sweetshark, to my understanding this was a no-brainer without the need for more justification, so finally all good now?
[12:16] <Sweetshark> ricotz: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#Why -- it literally says: "It's just a one-line change!" ;)
[12:20] <ricotz> Sweetshark, I didn't defend the change to the SRU team, but to you who is deeply familiar with lo packaging
[12:26] <Sweetshark> ricotz: the question is not if the change is good (it is), the question is if this should/needs to land in zesty and if so when and how. If this would be for zesty+1, all these details would be irrelevant indeed. ;)
[12:29] <Beret> does anyone know what package or settings determine the styling of notifications?
[12:30] <Beret> I tried out i3 the other day and now in unity 7 my notifications are still styled in the i3 way (read, not pretty)
[12:30] <Beret> even though I've uninstalled i3
[13:14] <Sweetshark> ricotz: FWIW, installing/deinstalling various combos of l10ns and the libreoffice metapackage, I couldnt get apt to complain in any way. Thus given that Final Freeze is tomorrow, I dont see this going into zesty as either prerelease or an 0-day SRU. It _might_ go in a SRU along with upstream 5.3.2, but as of now this is a purely cosmetic change fixing no enduser problem. However if there is even a
[13:14] <Sweetshark> hint of this delaying 5.3.2 into zesty, unless any real world impact shows up in the meantime, I will revert it.
[13:16] <Sweetshark> ricotz: Note that the ubuntu-zesty-5.3 branch should reflect the state of packages in zesty/main and SRU/security-updates that end up in the distro and nothing beyond that.
[13:19] <jbicha> Laney: gnome-terminal doesn't work in Unity8 so it's ok if I set its OnlyShowIn to Unity7, right?
[13:42] <Laney> jbicha: That sounds like NotShowIn to me.
[14:00] <jbicha> Laney: https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-terminal/ubuntu/view/head:/debian/patches/01_onlyshowin.patch
[14:01] <jbicha> I'm proposing to just change Unity to Unity7 there
[14:04] <Laney> Ok, if it already has it then that's not so bad
[14:07] <Laney> Is it known that it doesn't work?
[14:08] <Laney> That might want filing
[14:43] <sil2100> Trevinho: hey!
[14:43] <sil2100> Trevinho: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bamf/+bug/1680104 <- I filled in this and proposed an MP for one part of the problem
[14:44] <sil2100> Trevinho: the other seems to be some deprecation warnings turned into errors - as I don't know these parts I don't feel strong enough to try and migrate from those functions to the new ones
[14:45] <sil2100> Trevinho: if you're too busy the only thing I could do to fix this is disable -Werror=deprecated-declarations to make it building again, but I guess you'd prefer to not use deprecated functions
[14:46] <jbicha> do we have a usertag for apps that won't run in unity8 yet?
[14:46] <jbicha> an LP tag, I mean
[14:47] <Laney> attente might know
[14:49] <Laney> that gnome-terminal change should go to Debian too please
[14:49] <attente> i don't know
[14:54] <Trevinho> sil2100: please ping me again tomorrow, and I'll check that..
[14:54]  * Trevinho is in different TZ
[15:00] <sil2100> Ah, ok, will do that ;)
[16:29] <jbicha> attente: does unity8 still require upstart?
[16:30] <attente> jbicha: sorry, i don't know
[16:35] <bregma_> jbicha, yes, but there's a branch to replace it
[16:35] <bregma_> I doubt the branch will land in Zesty
[16:37] <jbicha> bregma_: yeah, it sounds too late for zesty, thanks
[16:54] <attente> jbicha: for the aisleriot bug, how are you launching it?
[17:06] <jbicha> attente: oh, it doesn't work if you run sol from ubuntu-terminal-app but maybe that's expected
[17:06] <jbicha> it works fine when I launch it from the Dash thing so never mind
[17:06] <attente> jbicha: i've run it from the terminal using "ubuntu-app-launch sol" and "/usr/games/sol -- --desktop_file_hint=sol.desktop"
[17:07] <attente> jbicha: actually launching it from the app drawer doesn't work for me, but that's because of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1675448
[17:09] <jcastro> jbicha: this should make you happy: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/
[17:12] <jbicha> ok, both those ways work (I had to install ubuntu-app-launch-tools)
[17:14] <jbicha> jcastro: that's astonishing
[17:51] <a1fa> bad news today
[17:51] <a1fa> abandon unity8 in favor of gnome?
[17:52] <a1fa> andyrock: is this a late april fools joke?
[17:54] <clvx> I just read about.. =/
[17:55] <a1fa> a little dissapointed in the news, considering unity was the most stable and sane DE for linux
[17:55] <a1fa> but its just another opportunity for ubuntu-unity distro flavor to fork forward
[17:59] <a1fa> the next thing on the chopping block is Mir
[18:08] <a1fa> internet is going wild over this
[18:08] <xclaesse> wait wait wait, Canonical is droping Unity in favor of GNOME, really?
[18:08] <a1fa> thats what Mark S. annonounced 30 min ago
[18:09] <sarnold> xclaesse: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/
[18:09] <xclaesse> sarnold, that's what I was reading, yes
[18:09] <xclaesse> I hoped that was posted April 1st, but no :(
[18:11] <Blu2> The focus will be on IOT now and not convergence anymore
[18:24] <a1fa> its ok, i think unity7 will continued to be maintained and developed, and if not by andyrock and the team, then by others
[18:25] <a1fa> best DE hands down
[18:25] <a1fa> switch to systemd didnt cause this mutch uproar
[18:58]  * ricotz is utterly baffled
[19:11] <dobey> so, anyone know how to make gnome-shell use the ubuntu wm/gtk+ themes?
[19:15] <jbicha> dobey: GNOME Tweak Tool, set your theme to Ambiance and your icon theme to ubuntu-mono-dark if you want the Ubuntu default
[19:28] <dobey> hmm, shell doesn't seem to play nice when lightdm is used
[19:29] <jbicha> could you be more specific?
[19:29] <dobey> no lock screen option, and my main mouse pointer was insanely huge
[19:29] <dobey> switched to gdm3 and all good though
[19:31] <jbicha> ooh, could you file a bug about the lock button?
[19:31] <xclaesse> Wondering of the drop of unity also means droping lighdm
[19:32] <jbicha> Ubuntu's gnome-shell is supposed to work as well as possible with lightdm but gnome-shell developers weren't interested in lightdm patches before
[19:32] <dobey> Ambiance them ends up with tiny little corner artifacts at the top edges of windows too
[19:33] <dobey> jbicha: this is on 16.04 btw, not sure if these issues still exist in 17.04
[19:35] <jbicha> theming was overhauled in gtk 3.20 (Ubuntu 16.10), but yes, Ambiance/Radiance are not as well-integrated as Adwaita with gnome-shell
[19:46] <ochosi> seriously, no more unity?
[19:46]  * ochosi can't really believe this yet
[20:40] <TheMuso> Holy crap, read ars before logging on. Like What the hell?
[20:40] <Laney> what a world we live in!
[20:41] <TheMuso> Yep indeed. I am happy we will be able to have a good accessibility story then. :)
[23:55] <a1fa> do-release-upgrade -d before the cool kids do it