[02:25] ugh got an 'allah is doing' troll [02:33] daftykins: Pops up now and again ... < chatter29> ?? in #ubuntu earlier . [02:34] yep that's the one! [02:34] seems to be from Amsterdam possibly [02:43] bed for me :) g'night \o [04:45] good morning to all [04:50] !info linux-image-generic xenial [04:50] linux-image-generic (source: linux-meta): Generic Linux kernel image. In component main, is optional. Version 4.4.0.72.78 (xenial), package size 2 kB, installed size 13 kB [06:14] Good morning [07:54] morning all [07:54] Hey ducasse [07:56] morning lordievader - how are you today? [07:56] Doing pretty good, bit sleepy. [07:56] How are you? [07:58] good, thanks. going a quick trip to oslo today. [08:00] wow, 42 zesty updates today. [08:12] morning guys [08:12] ducasse: Nice, have fun [08:12] Hey lotuspsychje [08:13] hey there ducasse & lordievader [08:13] morning lotus [08:13] How are you doing? [08:14] great here [08:14] doing some papers for my biz [08:22] scanning app on ubuntu is so easy [08:23] which one? [08:23] default scan app :p [08:24] xsane? [08:24] yeah [08:24] was messing on hp photosmart scna software on vista last week, was a nightmare [08:25] i thought the default on ubuntu was simple-scan [08:25] ah yes its simple-scan [08:25] I like the network support in (x)sane. [08:26] it's nice, and usually just works [08:26] was plug'n'play with my epson [08:28] hp here [08:28] some hp are craps on linux :( [08:29] hi guys [08:29] hey ikevin [08:29] ikevin: wich ones? [08:29] much of the hp's i had worked nicely with hplip [08:29] o/ [08:30] my all in one deskjet 3050 never has worked fine (like no color) [08:30] old type ikevin ? [08:31] iirc, like 5 or 6 year old [08:32] yeah some printer drivers are not found on linux indeed [08:33] hp are bad, they do an official osx driver so no linux driver :( [08:34] well over-all hp work most nicely with ubuntu [08:34] never had any issues myself [08:35] maybe i need to restest, my last attempt was than 2 year old [08:36] ikevin: yeah would be nice to know what your printer does on a xenial perhaps [08:38] i had some trouble to make a canon work on trusty last year [08:38] or just with latest hplip [08:38] and most brands dont have nice control centre app on ubuntu [08:39] would be nice if someone made a universal ink level & control centre [08:40] !info hplip-data [08:40] hplip-data (source: hplip): HP Linux Printing and Imaging - data files. In component main, is optional. Version 3.16.3+repack0-1 (xenial), package size 6242 kB, installed size 9786 kB [08:40] lotuspsychje: doubt that's easy, different manufacturers do that very differently, even between models [08:41] lotuspsychje, oh, that me who's bad, just plugged the printer and it has been automaticaly detected and default setup just working fine (with color) ! [08:41] !yay [08:41] Glad you made it! :-) [08:41] ikevin: wich ubuntu version are you? [08:41] i'm actually on mint 18, so xenial based [08:42] i always played with vanilla ubuntu desktop last years [08:42] scan fork fine to ! [08:42] yay [08:44] ducasse: but the simple-scan app can do differen brands at the time, does control center work otherwise you think? [08:44] good news, now i can play with cups & sane on my rpi to do a network printer/scanner :D [08:44] nice work ikevin [08:46] lotuspsychje: sane provides the plugins for scanner support, there are tons of them [08:47] ic [08:47] you can see lists on sane-project.org, but it's a bit outdated iirc [08:50] plus for my inkjet/scanner, epson provides the network scanning support plugin [08:51] apt-cache doesnt show much on epson and canon [08:53] they both have quite a few drivers on their sites aiui (haven't personally checked canon, though) [08:53] ah [08:57] there are esc/p drivers, i think those support a bunch of epson printers [08:57] (basic support, at least) [08:58] in personnal use, basic support is enought [09:05] bbl [09:17] I got me a gpg key. Does people normally use mail clients which support this? [09:18] some of us, at least. gpg is a bit too complex to be widespread. [09:20] I guess I should use it anyway. That way people would get curious of what "that signature is" and try to mimic [09:21] Why is this, though? Lack of knowledge or is it that certificates are used instead? [09:22] tip - if you use mailing lists a lot of them look down on signing list mail. certificates are even rarer, but the problem with gpg is the web of trust thing. [09:23] why is it that it's frowned upon? [09:23] because it's mostly pointless :) [09:25] Hmph. Yeah, I'd guess so. Unless you were to send mails from a different, unknown domain [09:27] the question is how will a bunch of strangers who do not have your verified key be able to tell the signature is really yours? see the wikipedia 'web of trust' article. [09:27] i've gtg, sorry. [09:30] Well that's what keyrings are for, right? [09:30] keyserver* [09:37] brunch875: Mutt has excellent support for gpg. [09:58] HI folks [10:00] mornin' BluesKaj [10:01] 'Morning brunch875 [11:03] good afternoon to all [11:04] afternoon, lotuspsychje! [11:04] u2 brunch875_ [11:04] hey BluesKaj [11:05] Hey lotuspsychje [11:06] http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/ubuntu-17-10-acrobatic-aardvark [11:06] lol [11:06] lol [11:07] my bet goes for amoeba [11:07] whats an amoeba [11:08] lotuspsychje: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amoeba#/media/File:Chaos_carolinense.jpg [11:09] that will never be :p [11:11] isnt a !ringtail a bit like an aardvark? [11:13] one is a kitty, the other is a pig [11:13] lol [11:28] Isn't an amoeba what a troll wants to grow up into [11:29] lol [11:41] hmm do we have a trigger like !autoremove or apt-cache clean? [12:19] \o/ [12:20] * ducasse does a happy dance [12:20] :p [12:20] lotuspsychje: tax stuff is back, they owe me money :) [12:20] ohhhhhh [12:21] thats the only thing the .gov is good for lol [12:21] pay our money back [12:21] so i can fix my server this summer :) [12:22] nice nice, what will the purpose be ducasse [12:22] i don't trust the mobo anymore, it's getting old. [12:23] ah right [12:23] wb BluesKaj [12:24] thanks lotuspsychje [13:01] hi de-facto [13:31] http://news.softpedia.com/news/dell-launches-world-s-most-powerful-15-and-17-laptops-powered-by-ubuntu-linux-514581.shtml [13:32] 1495 euro oO [13:36] wow, that's rather spendy [13:37] ill try doing better :p [13:37] wonder if there be a desktop version,...all in ones aren't for me [13:38] BluesKaj: second half of april, it says [13:39] laptops are ok for portable, but the graphics and cpu combo would be nice on a HiDef or 4K TV [13:39] bigger, fast ssd would be nice [13:39] thinking of my media pc here [13:40] laptops with all the high end specs are a waste of money IMO [13:41] yeah i also think so, gaming laptops are overrated [13:41] i prefer desktops, but that's just me being weird i guess [13:41] overkill [13:42] but ssd's powerup any machines right [13:42] ducasse, nothing weird about that...I don't get these ppl watching tv sports etc on their phones [13:42] bbl [13:45] altho I did see a iphone connected to a 50" tv provide a hdmi HiDef signal with a mini hdmi to hdmi adapter ...seemed to work well [13:45] BluesKaj: exactly, what's the point when the screen is just a few inches? streaming netflix to a phone strike me as one of those "because i can" things. [13:46] if it's just providing the data stream, sure. [13:46] yeah ducasse altho some hi end phones can act as a HiDef source [13:47] my old phone has a mini-hdmi out, although i've never used it [13:48] but there's no way i'll pay $800 for phone [13:48] me neither :) [13:50] phones are consumables nowadays, as long as they last for a couple of years or so they've done their job. so i buy the cheap androids. [13:51] yeah, I have an Alcatel one touch mini ..takes good pictures, but mostly i just use it as a phone [13:54] same here. i have an ssh client for emergencies and a wifi analyzer, other than that i don't really need apps. the ubuntu phones could probably work well for me, if they were actually produced. [13:54] the OS is old so it's no point using a large capacity sdcard for storage , since I can't load the OS / into the storage to prevent constant out of space reminders from the builtin [13:56] I've been removing silly google apps that somehow downloaded and installed by default [13:57] i don't even know how big the internal storage on mine is, but for some reason i put a 32gb card in it. i'm thinking of rooting the phone so i can remove the crap, although there aren't a lot on this lg phone compared to the samsung and sonys i've had before. [13:58] it would feel good to delete what i don't want, though, like facebook etc. [13:59] yeah, I'm slowly managing to delete a lot of apps that I'll never use [14:15] also managed to move a lot of apps to the sdcard just now [14:19] sadly there are usually quite a few that can't be moved [14:23] odd. chromium claims it can't read my preferences, but everything seems right. a restart doesn't help. [14:42] chromium works great on the rpi3, compared to firefox-esr it's a much lighter load on the cpu and draws much less power to the graphics than FF.FF foze when watching a full screen video, whereas chromium ran very smoothly with no flicker or buffering [14:43] i can imagine, chromium seems lighter to me as well - that's why i run it on the laptop. [14:44] i guess i'll just need to kill the prefs and set it up again. [14:44] there's voltage icon in the upper right corner that looks like a thermomter showing how much power is being used by the system [14:45] on what? [14:46] with FF it was always over 60% , chromium barely showed anything if at all [14:46] rpi3 raspian-pixel [14:46] raspbian [14:49] right. i just run xbian as you know, so no desktop as such. other than kodi i'm thinking of moving weechat and a few other things to it, but i don't really have great faith in a usb stick as the root fs when it comes to longevity. [14:49] also, transfer/write speed is pretty abysmal when both the network and usb is used at the same time. [14:50] root on the usb is much safer tho, i have a spare hdd that i might try with it [14:51] still the problem that ethernet and usb share the same bus [15:04] laterz guys working day tomorrow [15:09] BBL...stuff to do for a couple hrs [17:24] well i guess its time to switch to kde :( [17:31] So no more Unity [17:31] https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/ [17:31] yep [17:31] and no mir! \o/ [17:31] i just read it, indeed [17:31] * nacc has been using ubuntu-gnome for a while anyways [17:32] mir is just a fork of wayland [17:32] That one I'm not too surprised about, I always thought it looked like they were underestimating how much work it would be to develop a new display server [17:32] but I assumed they were just going to fall back on wayland proper [17:32] and well, they needed buy-in from non-ubuntu [17:32] and that never came [17:33] So what am I supposed to use on my tablets now? [17:33] mint? [17:33] I suppose this is gonna be the final nail in the coffin for Ubuntu Mobile now, isn't it [17:33] OerHeks: oh god no? [17:33] what is happening [17:33] why [17:33] why would canonical do this to us [17:33] GreeningGalaxy: assuming you mean Ubuntu Touch, since Ubuntu Mobile isn't a thing, then yes [17:34] i mean, it sort of felt like ubuntu touch was failing anyways [17:34] yea [17:34] again, i don't know how it would work unless they could push android or ios [17:34] and they were never going to do that [17:34] not with just ubuntu phone/tablet [17:34] also, there's no $$ there [17:35] to be practical :) [17:35] I liked Unity :( [17:35] good lord, main channel is going to be dreadful today [17:35] yeah, everything that challenges android is getting wiped out, which is a damn shame because I loathe android with a burning passion [17:35] yep [17:35] "hey guys, have you heard the news!" [17:35] yes. yes we have. wrong channel. [17:35] GreeningGalaxy: particular issue with android? or the google-ness of it? [17:36] mostly just that every time I try to do anything at all under the hood with Android, I go half mad. [17:36] well, the point is to not be under its hood, i assume :) [17:36] It seems engineered specifically to thwart attempts to fix its problems. [17:36] GreeningGalaxy: right, so my question was more -- what problems? [17:37] I just want a good x86 tablet that I can use the touchscreen [17:37] https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/ [17:37] immu_: yes thanks we've all seen it [17:37] *gasp* [17:37] tgm4883: i use the touchscreen on my laptop :) [17:37] tgm4883: but no tablets here [17:37] it that a joke ? [17:37] immu_: is what a joke? [17:37] nacc: I mean as a primary device, as in without an attached keyboard/mouse [17:37] nacc: example: My dad wanted to get the music he'd downloaded to his phone through Google Play onto another device. Turns out, You Can't. Google Play Music hides everything in /data, which is not accessible without root. [17:38] tgm4883: right, it's a 2-in-1 so i can flip it around and it's basically that :) [17:38] tgm4883: but yeah [17:38] nacc: on screen keyboard? [17:38] the new that from 18.04 will revert back to Gnome? [17:38] Google hides *YOUR OWN FILES* on *YOUR OWN DEVICE* and won't let you access them. [17:38] GreeningGalaxy: well, that's a Google Play Music issue. Not Android. [17:38] immu_: no it's not a joke. [17:38] immu_: not a joke apparently [17:38] tgm4883: yeah, although i haven't used it recently (on 17.10) [17:38] *17.04 [17:38] nicomachus: no, the issue is that there's even a place on your own phone that you can't access. [17:38] GreeningGalaxy: welcome to the world of proprietary software [17:38] it's been this way for a LONG time. [17:38] GreeningGalaxy: well it has to be for the licensure, i'm sure [17:38] after ZZ ... [17:39] GreeningGalaxy: and if you dislike the license rules, don't use google music [17:39] Not even Windows or OSX screw you that bad [17:39] presumably you agreed to the ToS [17:39] https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/ [17:39] thanks KamiRath, you are now the 4th person to link that here. [17:39] FFS can someone change the topic [17:39] thanks [17:39] good to know [17:39] should I pass the messag eon to the 5th person? [17:39] or will you be doing that? ;) [17:39] tgm4883, you can yourself, no? [17:40] OerHeks: I have no power here [17:40] Im really surprised noone is talking about "Unity out. GNOME in" [17:40] dbugger: you have to just be trolling now [17:40] dbugger: what do you want us to say that hasn't already been said [17:40] I've not had a great experience with GNOME 3.X [17:40] I guess I'll give it another shot with this new development, but I'm not optimistic. [17:41] GreeningGalaxy: interesting, i've found it pretty easy to use [17:41] Last time I tried it, it was inserting typos into everything I typed. It was completely nuts. [17:41] uh, that seems weird [17:41] never had anything even resembling that [17:41] I'm surprised that 18.04 is getting Gnome and not 17.10 [17:41] and been running gnome ubuntu since ~15.10 on this lappy [17:41] tgm4883: well, it might happen in 17.10 [17:41] but most users probably care about the lts upgrade path [17:42] nacc: I suppose that's true [17:42] tgm4883: just that it will definitely be done by 18.04 i think [17:42] Wasn't even a slow computer either, but every time I typed sort of fast, letters would start to appear out of order. I thought it was just me at first, but then I switched DEs and the problem vanished. [17:42] Maybe I joined the channel way too late and was already over [17:42] http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/ubuntu-18-04-ship-gnome-desktop-not-unity#disqus_thread [17:42] what the shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit [17:42] even though I thought that would be going all day ^^ [17:42] * brunch875 is demolished [17:42] there we go [17:42] brunch875, is not joining my party [17:42] ^^ [17:42] GreeningGalaxy: very strange, never had that [17:43] GreeningGalaxy: sounds like a buggy keyboard [17:43] nacc: honestly it needs to be done before that if it's going to have wayland [17:43] tgm4883: yep [17:43] nacc: no, it didn't persist in any other DE or in the bare TTY, it was most certainly not my keyboard [17:43] tgm4883: i'm curious what the flow will be, but i'm also not involved on the desktop side [17:43] GreeningGalaxy: very strange [17:43] That was like 3 years ago though, maybe it was just a one-time fluke [17:44] people have you also lost it, after reading that news [17:44] GreeningGalaxy: ah yeah [17:44] !language | brunch875 [17:44] brunch875: Please avoid any language that may be considered offensive, including acronyms and obfuscation of such - also see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Guidelines || The main channels are English only, for other languages, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/ChannelList [17:44] GreeningGalaxy: pre-16.04 was a bit bad [17:44] immu_: no [17:45] immu_, between now and 18.04 anything can happen. [17:45] sorry, sorry.... [17:45] Does it count, even with so many "i"s? [17:45] OerHeks: yea, they could trash 5 years of work on a whole DE [17:45] Nice stirr, Mark... [17:45] tbh, i'm surprised he was humble enough to admit defeat :) [17:45] maybe we'll see a little less fragmentation of the linux desktop world now [17:45] dbugger: probably, usually on IRC it counts if you even talk about swear words. I expect to be warned for the language in this message. [17:45] dbugger: "including acronyms and obfuscation of such" [17:46] wow, talk about specifiticy [17:46] I think "swear word" counts as a swear word on IRC [17:46] nacc, i would not be surprised that canonical and ubuntu split up. [17:46] OerHeks: i would be very surprised by that [17:46] OerHeks: canonical's branding is fully tied up in ubuntu [17:47] there isn't anything else, really [17:47] I'm very sad to see the project flop [17:47] on the other hand it's great the failure was admitted [17:47] Is Gnome 3 better now? Last I tried it (admittedly right after release) extensions were pretty bad [17:47] nothing like not steering the wheel and sinking [17:47] tgm4883: i dont use very many extensions, but i can test a specific one if you want [17:48] Trying to decide if I should go from Kubuntu back to Mate or Gnome [17:48] Maybe this stirr is needed to activate the community. [17:48] finaly, we are back in the gossip again :-D [17:49] nacc: I don't remember any specifically, it's been a long time since gnome 3.0 [17:49] does that mean we're hopping to wayland? [17:50] brunch875: yes, but who knows when [17:50] * brunch875 sighs deeply [17:50] tgm4883: hrm, i can't get the osb to show up in gnome -- it does show up on the login iirc [17:50] I was really looking forward do it [17:51] although I've got to admit that the whole confinement just didn't feel right [17:51] * daftykins groans as he spies 3.13.0-116 up for install [17:53] brunch875: the confinement of MIR? [17:53] Hmm, so what happens to "Ubuntu Gnome"? [17:54] the name will be six chars shorter? [17:55] so unity7 dies too? [17:55] I really like unity [17:55] tgm4883: i wonder if ubuntu gnome will still move ahead for now, 'pure gnome' ? [17:55] ducasse: I meant the whole team doing it [17:56] tgm4883: oh good question [17:56] tgm4883: yeah and stuff such as application lifecycle [17:57] brunch875: it could live I suppose. It's been suggested (in reddit threads anyway) that it could be gnome extensions to give the same look and feel [17:57] brunch875: it won't be developed by canonical though [17:57] .. and unity is not dead yet.. [18:00] I wonder what's with snaps too then [18:01] brunch875: snaps should be fine [18:01] brunch875: it says snaps will still be developed as part of the iot thing [18:02] hopefully we get all of that in the desktop [18:02] even without mir, the confinement + message passing sounds fantastic [18:02] brunch875: we already have it in the desktop... [18:03] well yeah, using snapped hexchat right now [18:03] ok so anything "interesting" to talk about today ;) [18:03] what I mean is I wish the development to advance everywhere [18:03] The language of that post isn't entirely unambiguous. It could be that he means we're going back to GNOME-based Unity, not vanilla GNOME. [18:04] GreeningGalaxy: That'd be for the best! [18:04] "We will shift our default Ubuntu desktop back to GNOME for Ubuntu 18.04 LTS." Could mean either "Unity is going to be based on GNOME again" [18:04] well just saw this https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/ [18:04] GreeningGalaxy: that's a good point [18:04] i thought Unity always has been gnome underneath? :) [18:04] s/either// [18:05] daftykins: yes, but unity 8 wasn't [18:05] ah ok [18:05] daftykins: and the post specifically talks about going back to Gnome and not funding unity 8 anymore [18:05] tgm4883: so i'm not able to get the on screen keyboard to consistently work, not sure hwy yet :) [18:05] yeah i didn't follow desktop because i don't use it. [18:06] GreeningGalaxy: interesting point, hadn't thought of that [18:06] Someone should get some clarification. popey can you ask Mark at the pub later ;) [18:07] clarification of? [18:07] daftykins: how's that W10 working out for ya, though? :P [18:07] popey: whether we're going back to Gnome Shell, or Unity on top of Gnome [18:07] also " We will continue to produce the most usable open source desktop in the world," which notably says "desktop" and not "distribution" or "operating system" [18:07] popey: since the post is kinda unclear on that [18:07] pass [18:07] lol [18:07] you know as much as I do [18:07] nicomachus: great thanks, as are my Loonix servers, since i'm in both camps - not just a fanboy [18:08] It looks like OMG!Ubuntu ran with "omg they're phasing out Unity" but that's not what the post looks like to me. [18:08] unity is dead [18:08] popey: yea, but you're both in the UK so aren't you all just meet at the pub after work? [18:08] baizon: not necessarily [18:08] * nicomachus blows a raspberry at daftykins [18:08] it is [18:08] tgm4883: of course [18:08] no unity 8 and unity 7 :( [18:08] baizon: You have insider knowledge? [18:09] one way or another, I hope we at least see an new default icon theme because christ [18:09] tgm4883: developer left, and the blog is saying it, IoT and cloud [18:09] good lord, #ubuntu is requiring !ot every 30 secs [18:09] baizon: no, the blog says unity 8 is no longer being developerd [18:09] nicomachus: hilariously i was looking at a clients iMac they can't stand, today ;) [18:09] baizon: it doesn't say anything about 7 [18:09] daftykins: pick a side! [18:10] nicomachus: nooo the only sane way is to see them all for what they are [18:10] horses for courses! [18:10] yes. winners and losers! [18:10] nah that attitude is pathetic. [18:10] baizon: it looks to me like the blog post is saying "Unity is returning to being a derivative of GNOME" not "All of Unity is being trashed and Ubuntu will ship with vanilla GNOME" [18:11] as we say here in canucksville, unity makes no nevermind to me :-) [18:11] @GreeningGalaxy: my reading was the latter. We're dropping unity and switching to GNOME Shell [18:11] I would expect some ubuntu specific extensions in it though [18:11] stevenh: where do you see that in the post? [18:12] /join #ubuntu-discuss [18:12] Instead of being a full vanilla GNOME [18:12] immu: you're already here, friendo [18:12] probably failed his copy-paste [18:12] immu: it's ok, you're in [18:12] "We will shift our default Ubuntu desktop back to GNOME for Ubuntu 18.04 LTS." Because they say "default DESKTOP" [18:12] baizon, tgm4883: unity has to be supported until 2021 at least [18:12] I know I'm reading into things though [18:13] But because he mentions it as desktop I would expect it to be the full environment [18:13] i imagine it'll be GNOME with changes to look more like Unity does [18:13] i was trying to cpy paste the article [18:13] someone in #ubuntu-offtopic says they have a source inside canonical that says Unity is dead [18:13] * tgm4883 shrugs [18:13] move to gnome [18:13] including 7 [18:13] good riddance [18:13] gnome sucks [18:13] i imagine the community will take it up [18:14]