[08:55] <brunch875> argh, some guy in front of me is typing by slapping his keyboard
[08:55] <brunch875> quite distracting
[08:56] <lotuspsychje> lol
[08:57] <brunch875> oups, I thought I sent this to #ubuntu-offtopic
[10:28] <javier4> abeato: you got a minute?
[10:29] <abeato> javier4, hey, saw your MP, thanks
[10:29] <abeato> javier4, will try to take a look soon, I've been a bit busy
[10:30] <javier4> abeato: I'm tryint to debug it on my own. Ill let you a question I got about your voicecall atom on mtk2, reply when you have the time:
[10:36] <javier4> You defined mtk2_voicecall_probe that in the end calls g_idle_add(mtk2_delayed_register, vc).
[10:36] <javier4> https://github.com/rilmodem/ofono/blob/master/drivers/mtk2modem/voicecall.c#L118
[10:36] <javier4> But before doing that it calls ril_voicecall_start from ril/voicecall.c,
[10:36] <javier4> https://github.com/rilmodem/ofono/blob/master/drivers/rilmodem/voicecall.c#L769
[10:36] <javier4> that in turn, after setting a bunch of fields to vc, calls g_idle_add(mtk2_delayed_register, vc) too. Due to the different nature of netreg atom compared to voicecall one, my patch lacks this double call. Is it really necessary, or uselessly redundant?
[12:18] <hellslinger> hi everyone, I'm wondering if there is a way to startup ubuntu touch on my aquaris m10 in single user mode or or disable unity entirely?
[13:05] <lotuspsychje> hellslinger: why would you want to disable unity?
[13:12] <dobey> hellslinger: short answer, no; longer anser, you can do whatever you want to it, but we can't really support it
[13:13] <dobey> ie, if you want some other interface based on ubuntu, you're going to have to build your own custom images and do all the integration work to make it usable for you
[13:31] <hellslinger> lotuspsychje, I'd just like to use fluxbox or Gnome 3 or something, I'd like to use it like a regular Linux computer
[13:32] <lotuspsychje> hellslinger: see what dobey suggested
[13:33] <hellslinger> dobey, I haven't dug into it too deeply, I imagine that the plasma mobile people have done something similar. On a desktop machine, I just disable lightdm and that's all it takes, is there an equivalent operation for touch on the aquaris m10?
[13:38] <dobey> phones are not regular computers
[13:40] <hellslinger> I understand that ARM boots differently from a BIOS or UEFI x86 system
[13:41] <hellslinger> but there is a certain point in the startup init system where it decides to launch Mir instead of X or a shell
[13:41] <dobey> it's not just booting differently
[13:42] <ogra> the kernel neither has support for tty consoles nor for X beyond framebuffer (which is unusable slow)
[13:42] <ogra> and for any usable X you dont have drivers
[13:43] <dobey> and a bunch of android stuff is required to even make network and such work
[13:43] <ogra> (it is all android drivers after all)
[13:43] <dobey> and then you need all the special phone stuff to set up modem and things properly
[13:44] <hellslinger> I see, yeah that's quite a bit
[13:44] <dobey> if you want a GNOME shell based system, i'd say you should work with upstream GNOME folk to get wayland working on top of android drivers, and build your own images based on wayland/gnome
[13:45] <dobey> if you just need some X based apps, set up a libertine container and run them from there
[13:45] <hellslinger> yeah, I have done that, but they don't work correctly, touch doesn't get translated, resizing doesn't work, etc
[13:47] <hellslinger> understood about the gnome thing, I believe the plasma mobile folks have based their stuff off the ubuntu images
[13:47] <dobey> yes
[13:47] <dobey> well i think plasma mobile is only built for a couple devices like nexus 5 and a tablet or something though
[13:48] <hellslinger> yeah
[13:49] <hellslinger> do you know when the 16.04 based ubuntu touch images will come to the m10 OTA? It's still on 15.04
[13:50] <dobey> when snap based images are available, it will require a re-flash, because the system will i think be too different for an ota to work
[14:29] <leaftype> my god I want an ubuntu phone in the US. nearly got one when the international version came out, but the channels didn't match above 2g speeds
[14:30] <leaftype> as a tablet it has very few use cases. But my phone requirements are a lot simpler
[14:54] <dobey> leaftype: get a nexus 4
[14:54] <dobey> leaftype: or a nexus 5 perhaps
[16:14] <leaftype> dobey, how good is the nexus 5 port? nexus 4 is one hell of an old phone to be using. Discontinued 4 years ago, and with a non-removable battery
[16:16] <leaftype> nexus 5 is discontinued, and only community supported, but at least it's only... discontinued by 2 years.
[16:17] <leaftype> right now I use a second hand iPhone that I only get to last through an 8 hour shift by keeping it in airplane mode until breaks. battery issues on old phones suck
[16:18] <ogra> the N4 battery is definitely removable ...
[16:18] <ogra> (not fun and you need tools, but you can remove it)
[16:18] <leaftype> really? wikipedia says it's not
[16:19] <dobey> nexus 5 was only discontinued after android 6, so like 1.5 years
[16:19] <dobey> yes you can remove the nexus 4 battery
[16:19] <dobey> but not sure why you'd need to
[16:20] <dobey> the one on nexus 5 is less removable
[16:20] <leaftype> because batteries die
[16:20] <dobey> as for the port, i don't know exactly how good it is right now; i did use ubuntu on nexus 5 as my only phone for like 2 years though
[16:21] <leaftype> that's encouraging :)
[16:21] <dobey> leaftype: well if you buy a refurb nexus 4, the battery should still last a very long time, unless you leave it plugged in 24/7 or do other craziness
[16:21] <dobey> i'm kind of surprised my nexus 5 isn't totally dead yet
[16:22] <dobey> i've had it for 3 years, and 2/3 of that were with ubuntu on it, with extremely poor battery life
[16:22] <dobey> i don't even really have a problem with the power button, which so many people complain about
[16:23] <leaftype> what do people say about hte power button?
[16:23] <dobey> after a while the power button apparently gets really troublesome and will stick and cause the phone to power off and such
[16:24] <dobey> but never really had that problem with mine
[16:28] <leaftype> holy shit, the nexus 4 still sells for $100 on amazon. I was not expecting that
[17:35] <BOHverkill> https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/
[17:47] <leaftype> well... that's sad
[17:51] <brunch875> yes... very
[17:51] <brunch875> now I wonder if I should flash android
[17:51] <brunch875> but I really really do not want a google device tracking me around
[17:51] <brunch875> I really like my utouch
[17:52] <brunch875> even if the project flopped... well... it was worth it
[17:52] <leaftype> I'm afraid of the gloat that broader linux communites will have
[17:52] <matv1> this really sucks so much
[17:52] <leaftype> What I don't understand is that the few times it actually came to market, it sold out almost instantly, didn't it?
[17:52] <brunch875> it did
[17:53] <leaftype> Guess this means I'm sticking to iOS for the foreseeable future, not just while I'm staring at my empty wallet
[17:55] <dobey> brunch875: lineageos is pretty decent
[17:56] <leaftype> Does this mean Mir is dead too?
[17:56] <brunch875> dobey: also android, right?
[17:56] <brunch875> battery life yadda yadda
[17:57] <dobey> brunch875: based on android. i get decent battery life on my nexus 5. and don't sync contacts and everything into google and all that, like stock android requires you to do
[17:57] <richrboo_> Sailfish
[17:57] <richrboo_> Jolla
[17:57] <dobey> and android 7.1 has a lot more permissions enforcement than 4.4 did, for sure
[17:57] <brunch875> I'll give those a try, I guess
[17:58] <leaftype> All I need from a phoneOS os is trust in security, a podcast player/downloader, and a web browser for reddit/youtube. The biggest problem i have with both google and apple is the first part
[17:58] <dobey> i don't think sailfish has ports for many devices
[17:59] <brunch875> I feel tempted to just stick with utouch
[17:59] <richrboo_> Interesting that Jolla bringing Sailfish to some Sony phones though
[17:59] <richrboo_> Later this quarter
[18:03] <leaftype> ... huh
[18:24] <taiebot> Wanted to thanks everyone for all their efforts...
[18:26] <taiebot> Like firefox os i think ubuntu touch never got the chance it deserved.
[18:27] <taiebot> I enjoyed the ride will open a beer for all of you!!!
[18:29] <leaftype> beer for all!
[18:29] <leaftype> apparently 18.04 is gonig to gnome shell too? I think this day is going to be about 3 months of analysis
[18:29] <leaftype> triple checked the date. Nope, not hte first.
[18:30] <dobey> yay beer!
[18:31] <leaftype> need lots. There are some great brown ales made locally I think I'll have to get
[18:32] <leaftype> signing off. See you later
[18:32] <taiebot> i have opened mine but made a mess it's all-over the floor. what a sad day!!
[19:40] <sebsebseb> So Ubuntu touch is dead
[19:40] <sebsebseb> as is ubuntu personal
[19:40] <sebsebseb> as is unity 7 and 8?
[19:40] <sebsebseb> just seen the breaking news !
[20:11] <mcphail> sebsebseb: sad news :(
[20:11] <sebsebseb> mcphail: yeah it is really
[20:11] <sebsebseb> did you work on touch
[20:11] <sebsebseb> or just a user ?
[20:11] <mcphail> sebsebseb: an enthusiast
[20:11] <sebsebseb> mcphail: I guess too much work trying to base on 16.04
[20:11] <mcphail> not unexpected, though
[20:12] <sebsebseb> and converge things together
[20:12] <sebsebseb> and with little money gain
[20:12] <sebsebseb> if any reallly so
[20:12] <mcphail> This could damage snappy, too
[20:12] <sebsebseb> mcphail: well there's stilll salifsihos at least :)
[20:12] <sebsebseb> and the whole snappy move why?
[20:12] <sebsebseb> what was wrong with clicks for mobile seriously ?
[20:12] <sebsebseb> and the desktop could have gnoem flatpak or something
[20:13] <sebsebseb> gone above looks like gnome my typo
[20:13] <sebsebseb> mcphail: seems mir will die to then, without unity
[20:13] <mcphail> If Mir dies, I think the proposed snappy security model has to change
[20:13] <sebsebseb> snappy security model ?
[20:14] <mcphail> Yes - X doesn't provide isolation
[20:14] <sebsebseb> mcphail: I got a Linux Presentation Day coming up in a bit under three weeks, idea is to show the public LInux, get htem interested
[20:14] <sebsebseb> but now its a bit like
[20:14] <sebsebseb> hmm how much to show unity or not
[20:14] <sebsebseb> what to say etc
[20:14] <sebsebseb> mcphail: Ubuntu can use wayland like other distros
[20:14] <mcphail> Not sure wayland does what is required. Could be wrong
[20:15] <sebsebseb> mcphail: thats for unity
[20:15] <sebsebseb> for GNOME its fine and good
[20:15] <sebsebseb> upstream gnome been using it etc
[20:16] <mcphail> sebsebseb: yes, but I meant for the snappy security isolation
[20:17] <mcphail> Anyway, wanted to say a big THANKS to all the devs. I've greatly enjoyed your work
[20:19] <sebsebseb> yeah same here  :)
[20:19] <sebsebseb> mcphail: I  wonder if both unity 7 and 8 will get forked !
[20:20] <mcphail> sebsebseb: that'd be fun! Could try to make it an official flavour
[20:21]  * mcphail registers unubuntu.org
[20:21] <sebsebseb> mcphail: would be funny is the word irony in this context
[20:21] <sebsebseb> if suddenly they had to make like a offical ubuntu flavour
[20:21] <sebsebseb> of the forekd unity 7 and 8 :D
[20:27] <taiebot> trying marius quabec tool
[20:37] <m0n5t3r> https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/04/ubuntu-unity-is-dead-desktop-will-switch-back-to-gnome-next-year/ RIP :-/
[20:38] <mcphail> m0n5t3r: sad days
[20:42]  * m0n5t3r still waiting for someone to make an OS I can install on bog-standard ARM phones, just like I install Ubuntu or Debian on the larger computers
[20:45] <dobey> still not going to happen
[20:48] <sebsebseb>  m0n5t3r salifish os is good
[20:50] <m0n5t3r> yeah, but it will require buying a new phone
[20:50] <dobey> there is no such thing as a "standard" ARM phone
[20:50] <dobey> lineageos will probably have the widest range of support though
[20:53] <m0n5t3r> is that the former cyanogenmod?
[20:54] <dobey> yes
[20:54] <sebsebseb> so will ubuntu toufch
[20:54] <sebsebseb> get any more updates
[20:54] <sebsebseb> or that it
[20:54] <sebsebseb> i mean security
[20:55] <m0n5t3r> well, I don't think ubuntu armhf repos are going anywhere, the problem is that ubuntu touch folks don't want users using apt
[20:58] <NwS> So that was it? Game Over?
[21:01] <m0n5t3r> well, at least on the desktop I'll stay on 16.04 until it goes out of support, maybe something else shows up in the mean time; maybe they turn that gnome steaming pile of crap into something usable
[21:02] <NwS> Awesome. We're stuck with droid, ios and windows (lol)
[21:02] <m0n5t3r> but I'm really sad about the touch part, because Android is a pretty crappy Linux system
[21:04] <sebsebseb> NwS: no there'ss salifish os
[21:04] <sebsebseb> one last Linux contender :)
[21:04] <NwS> LoL right :P
[21:04] <sebsebseb> salifsh os can do more than touch anyway
[21:04] <sebsebseb> much more
[21:04] <sebsebseb> even run android apps :d
[21:04] <NwS> You say that as if droid thingies are supposed to be any good
[21:04] <sebsebseb> there's also tizen, but tahts samsungs thing really altough open source
[21:05] <sebsebseb> NwS: well the main streame market wants android apps thats what i mean
[21:06] <NwS> Well the market is full of chinese phones so ..
[21:06] <NwS> But w.e
[21:06] <sebsebseb> NwS: the meizux mx 4 ubuntu phone yeah
[21:06] <sebsebseb> and pro
[21:14] <NwS> Reading OMGUbuntu
[21:14] <NwS> Talking about great desktop future
[21:14] <NwS> The same minute the desktop market shrinks lol
[21:15] <sebsebseb> NwS: interface choice ?
[21:47] <taiebot> Well take care anyone!!! Some of you must be pissed off I appreciated the effort, maybe a fork will appear somewhere. I have my feeling that some people might decide to carry on with the project knowing that so much effort went into it.
[22:14] <hellslinger> So does the big news mean there will be no more updates for phones and tablets?
[22:22] <mcphail> hellslinger: don't know for sure, but mhall119 has been quoted in Ars saying development is ending
[22:28] <black_pu1> for what it's worth: thanks to everyone. this was the only project that had some potential to be a beautiful, usable, open stack with an actual ecosystem. Sadly, the market didn't provide the last bit... :(
[22:52] <mhall119> please don't take my quote in ars as gospel, that was a simple reply to an email question, I didn't know it was going into an article
[22:55] <Acou_Bass> well if ubuntu touch *does* die off in terms of canonical development, id be interested to see it go on as a community effort similar to maemo and firefoxOS :D (i really hope the same thing happens with the unity desktop itself too, as its still my favourite DE)
[22:55] <sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: yeah some commuinty forks of all of this would be nice if it comes to that,  unity 7 and 8 both versions, plus ubuntu touch
[22:55] <sebsebseb> h eh maybe even ubuntu personal the what was going to be 16.04 based thing, if that's in ok enough shape for a fork, which it probably isn't really
[22:56] <Acou_Bass> dood if unity 7 gets forked and continued
[22:56] <Acou_Bass> thatd be amazing
[22:56] <sebsebseb> mhall119: leave a comment on Ars I guess, if you haven't already.  a bit unfair if they quote you out of context etc
[22:56] <Acou_Bass> unity 7 running on wayland complete with compiz-style effects... year of the linux desktop indeed :P
[22:57] <sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: well its to do with lisences and  so on to, but  can fork all of that I guess
[22:57] <sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: what would be funny the irony I think the word is in the context, is if suddenly one of htose forks becomes popular, enough for ubuntu to have a reason to use it as an offiacl flavour, imagine that !
[22:57] <Acou_Bass> 'ubuntu unity remix'
[22:58] <sebsebseb> yeah, but out of a fork I mean
[22:58] <Acou_Bass> yeah i dont really know what a unity fork would be called
[22:58] <sebsebseb> mhall119: I guess touch and unity, just isn't making caonicnanl money, like marks blog post seems to say as well so
[22:58] <sebsebseb> so nuked
[22:58] <sebsebseb> plus  unity was seen as fragmentation by ceratin people in linux community etc like the blog post says, I see as a choice though, as do many others
[23:00] <Acou_Bass> yeah its another one of these 'lets chuck it at canonical and call it NIH syndrome' type things i guess
[23:01] <Acou_Bass> which y'know when linux mint do it, or when elementaryOS does it, or solus does it, its applauded
[23:01] <Acou_Bass> weird eh
[23:03] <sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: I think its since Canonical is commerical also has its Copyright assignemtns policy which people worry about
[23:03] <sebsebseb> its not liek the fsf for examle with one as well apparnatly
[23:04] <sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: the  GNOME patching was mostly uh I was never keen on that
[23:04] <sebsebseb> well certain things  etc
[23:04] <sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: but when they made netbook remix, and later unity,  things started making more sense
[23:05] <sebsebseb> things came more together etc and  yeah unith 7 and 8 are both good interfaces really
[23:05] <sebsebseb> I would usaully prefer gnome 3 gnome shell though
[23:05] <sebsebseb> and mate
[23:05] <sebsebseb> depending on things
[23:06] <Acou_Bass> im not a huge fan of MATE its not terrible though
[23:06] <sebsebseb> GNOME 2  was good and popular
[23:06] <sebsebseb> lives on as Mate
[23:07] <sebsebseb> I never been that keen on XFCE or LXDE, but GNOME 2 and then Mate yep :@)
[23:07] <sebsebseb> :)
[23:07] <Acou_Bass> yeah like i said its not my cuppa tea but i cant rag on it because it isnt a bad desktop at all
[23:07] <sebsebseb> and cinnnamon no not keen on that,  I did try out budgie though  in virtual machine, that was  good
[23:07] <Acou_Bass> yeah budgie is nice :D fairly quick too
[23:07] <sebsebseb> impresive with the ubuntu welcome screen for it
[23:08] <sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: I'll show that in a virtual machine at least at my event in just under three weeks
[23:08] <sebsebseb> Acou_Bass: I wonder if unity 8 preview from 16.10 well 17.04 make that, will get back ported to 16.04 :d
[23:08] <sebsebseb> I know its like dead or whatever, but
[23:08] <sebsebseb> then ok people can have both unity 7 and 8 preview thingey utnill 2021