[11:28] <Mirv> boiko: it needs rerun (now is okay), there was a faulty UITK in overlay for a while that needed a no-change rebuild
[12:47] <boiko> Mirv: nice, thanks! :)
[16:09] <dandrader> attente,  how do I know if gdk backend probing is at work? and how can I force it when launching from commnad line? looks like it stopped working for me... I'm confused
[16:12] <dandrader> bregma_, looks like gdk backend probing stopped working for me
[16:13] <dandrader> bregma_, I did the GDK_BACKEND="" as you suggested
[16:13] <attente> dandrader: which backend are you trying to use? mir?
[16:13] <dandrader> bregma_, worked the first fime or so (saw client trying consecutive connections on unity8.log)
[16:13] <dandrader> bregma_, but not anymore
[16:14] <attente> dandrader: gtk from z archive checks for mir first before x11
[16:14] <dandrader> bregma_, now, if I do GDK_BACKEND="mir" on terminal. it all works. but with GDK_BACKEND="" I don't see any connection attempt at all
[16:14] <attente> dandrader: you'd have to specify GDK_BACKEND="*", but that's a no-op
[16:14] <dandrader> attente, yes, mir. I'm trying to
[16:14] <dandrader> get it to try mir via backend probing
[16:15] <dandrader> attente, ah so it's "*" no just "".
[16:15] <attente> dandrader: if you want to run this under u8, you can either try ubuntu-app-launch <desktop-file>
[16:15] <attente> dandrader: you can also try adding '-- --desktop_file_hint=<desktop-file>' after the binary name too
[16:16] <Saviq> attente, UAL will now launch with GDK_BACKEND="x11" I believe - that's what dandrader's trying to avoid
[16:16] <Saviq> we weren't ready for the connect, disconnect, connect dance
[16:16] <dandrader> attente, yeah, I do the hint as well. btw, now you can use a DESKTOP_FILE_HINT env var as well. more convenient
[16:16] <attente> ah, my bad
[16:16] <Saviq> dandrader, both of which we should do away with ;P
[16:17] <attente> dandrader: there's also "X-Ubuntu-XMir-Enable=false" which you can add to the desktop file of the app you want to test to disable xmir and allow gtk to skip to using mir
[16:19] <attente> but yeah... GDK_BACKEND='*' should get you the original upstream probing order (mir first, then x11), assuming u-a-l doesn't override that
[16:19] <dandrader> attente, what I want to do is try out gdk's backend probing
[16:19] <dandrader> attente, now my app started from commandline using GDK_BACKEND="*" \o/
[16:20] <attente> dandrader: great!
[16:20] <dandrader> attente, although It only created one connection/session. is that how it works?
[16:21] <attente> dandrader: yes, it'll only connect once to the mir socket
[16:21] <dandrader> attente, I thought bakcend probing would cause a gtk app to create a mir connection, then drop it, then finally create a new one and use it for real
[16:21] <dandrader> attente, so probing doesn't waste connections then? awesome
[16:21] <attente> dandrader: no, it just tries it, and if it works, keeps it, and moves on to the next if it fails
[16:21] <dandrader> Saviq, ^
[16:21] <dandrader> Saviq, now I'm puzzled :/
[16:22]  * Saviq too
[16:22] <attente> dandrader: what's the issue? does it look like gtk is creating multiple connections?
[16:23] <dandrader> attente, I was trying to fix a issue where probing seemed to create a mir connection, drop it, and then create a new final one. that caused unity8 to consider that the app stopped on the first connection drop
[16:23] <Saviq> dandrader, one of those connections could've been xmir http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24319827/
[16:23] <dandrader> Saviq, attente, a so xmir would be the one probing for mir?
[16:23] <Saviq> but that should've worked then with your original approach, 'cause xmir stays on, even if app connects to Mir
[16:24] <Saviq> dandrader, right now, unless X-Ubuntu..., xmir just gets launched
[16:24] <Saviq> and should connect first, and stay connected
[16:24] <attente> i thought the problem was xmir and gtk both connecting to the mir socket
[16:24] <attente> or is this actually supposed to be ok?
[16:24] <dandrader> attente, tjat
[16:24] <bregma_> also, libSDL does the double-probe dance for whatever reason
[16:24] <Saviq> yes, we'll need the double-double for SDL anyway
[16:25] <dandrader> attente, yes. multiple simultaneous connections will work now with the qtmir about to be release
[16:25] <bregma_> heh, double-double makes it sound like a joke in Candian patois
[16:26]  * Saviq wonders what GDK_BACKEND="" results in, then ;P
[16:26] <dandrader> bregma_, any simple sdl app in ubuntu you recommend me to use as a test subject?
[16:27] <Saviq> bregma_, also, can we unset GDK_BACKEND somewhere to verify GTK works?
[16:27] <bregma_> dandrader, we user neverball for testing
[16:28] <dandrader> bregma_, great, any env vars I should set?
[16:29] <bregma_> Saviq, I'm not sure where GDK_BACK gets set (doesn;t seem to be in trunk UAL code), I'd just change the Exec line in a .desktop file to start with "env -u GDK_BACKEND ..." to remove that variable from the app's environment
[16:29] <Saviq> ah -u
[16:29] <bregma_> dandrader, er, I'm not sure of the probing order gets set properly in libSDL after recent merged... bschaefer do you know?
[16:30] <bschaefer> bregma_, SDL2 is still x11 first
[16:30] <Saviq> dandrader, but doesn't http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24319827/ suggest the approach in to-be-released qtmir didn't work?
[16:30] <bschaefer> ive not made that patch yet to that lib
[16:30] <bregma_> bschaefer, what's the env var to force the libSDL probe order?
[16:30]  * bschaefer has plans for it
[16:30] <bschaefer> SDL_VIDEODRIVER=mir
[16:30] <bschaefer> or x11
[16:30] <Saviq> well, yeah, that's not "probe order' ;)
[16:31] <bschaefer> haha yeah thats not
[16:31] <Saviq> dandrader, xmir connects, app connects, gets rejected, app dies, xmir exits
[16:31] <Saviq> IIUC
[16:31] <bregma_> libSDL doesn't let you specify the order by env var
[16:31] <bregma_> just the back end
[16:31] <bregma_> we should get that patched upstream
[16:31] <attente> does u8 require upstart for anything?
[16:32] <bregma_> attente, far as I know it still requires upstart to start itself and its dependencies up
[16:32] <bschaefer> bregma_, upstream does not want that
[16:32] <bregma_> bschaefer, upstream needs to be slapped silly
[16:32] <bschaefer> the order is to do X11 first until Mir or Wayland take over more
[16:33] <bschaefer> bregma_, yeah ... i asked a year or so ago
[16:33] <bschaefer> bregma_, but for now we can carry it in a patch
[16:33] <bregma_> yes, it's pretty much a one-liner patch
[16:33] <bschaefer> sdl1.2 does check for mir first though (once that lands ... hopefuly ~2 weeks)
[16:33] <bschaefer> bregma_, yup, but need to get that sdl2 patch in for mir deprecations
[16:33] <bschaefer> soo might as well add it then
[16:33] <attente> bregma_: do you know what dependencies rely on that? jbicha was asking in #ubuntu-desktop
[16:34] <dandrader> bschaefer, doyou have that patched sdl in a usable silo?
[16:34] <bschaefer> dandrader, sdl1.2? or sdl2?
[16:34] <bschaefer> i dont have either in a silo
[16:34] <bschaefer> dandrader, i can make a ppa though
[16:35] <dandrader> bschaefer, I don't know. whatever neverball uses (that's the preferred sdl app for testing, right?)
[16:35] <bschaefer> yeah thats sdl2
[16:35] <bschaefer> sdl1.2 gives you a bunch of other games
[16:35] <bschaefer> plus mplayer
[16:35] <bschaefer> which is awesome to watch some videos on mir
[16:36] <bschaefer> dandrader, let me get a ppa up though with that in the correct order
[16:38] <dandrader> bschaefer, actually it should be fine without the patch. I just have to change neverballs' desktop file to not use xmir and then it will do probing and find mir, right?
[16:38] <bschaefer> yeah if it cant find the DISPLAY env
[16:38] <bschaefer> it'll fail the x11 check and move to mir
[16:39] <dandrader> bschaefer, then it will make a probe mir connection followed by a real mir connection?
[16:39] <bschaefer> dandrader, actually that double connection part is not in the current ubuntu archive for sdl2
[16:39] <bschaefer> that was upstreamed a month or so ago
[16:40] <bschaefer> sooo sdl2 atm only does 1 mir connection in zesty
[16:42] <Saviq> dandrader, bregma_, ok I've confirmed now that with and without `env -u GDK_BACKEND` in the Exec line both gnome-softwares start up fine (with silo 2668)
[16:43] <Saviq> bregma_, so we can undo GDK_BACKEND=x11
[16:43] <bregma_> tedg, ^^^
[16:43] <Saviq> dandrader, and that means it's not so much a priority any more
[16:43] <Saviq> sorry for the noise, I wouldn't have expected ="" to behave differently than ="*" or unset altogether...
[16:44] <dandrader> Saviq, ok, will go back to multi-instance support work then
[16:46] <Saviq> dandrader, if you're not far away with this one, might as well complete it - will be needed anyway
[16:46] <Saviq> but your call at this point
[16:47] <dandrader> Saviq, was just doing the debugging so far. no real code written
[16:47] <Saviq> ack
[17:09] <bschaefer> dandrader, did you still want that ppa (with the upstream SDL2 changes?)
[17:26] <dandrader> bschaefer, nah
[17:26] <bschaefer> alright! Let me know if you need any testing for those changes
[17:30] <matv1> jeez just read the news. gutted as you all must feel
[17:40] <matv1> I take it this was just as much a bombshell for the Canonical devs as it is for us. Soo sorry for you guys. This should have been something awsum.
[17:47] <matv1> is mir development going to be discontinued as well?
[20:03] <lpotter> personally I saw this coming months ago...