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[09:23] <snadge> so when can i get my wayland gnome on? :p
[09:23] <snadge> or are all of you getting drunk right now
[09:24] <brunch875> http://termbin.com/ai2g
[09:24] <brunch875> uh oh
[09:24] <brunch875> what is happeninnggg
[09:32] <snadge> you haven't heard? .. unity/mir -> /dev/null
[09:33] <snadge> im not being snarky about it either.. im actually using unity on 17.04 right now
[09:33] <nanodrone> is there anyway i can port the unity touch handles to gnome?
[09:34] <brunch875> snadge: but would that cause go libraries to mismatch with apt?
[09:35] <brunch875> ...and does the death of unity/mir mean 17.04 is continued somewhere else?
[09:35] <brunch875> Should I reinstall zesty?
[09:37] <k1l_> snadge: what do you expect? this is a technical channel. if you want to eat popcorn just noin one of the many forums or reddit, to see people beeing snarky
[09:39] <brunch875> I just tried translating snarky to spanish. Google translate replied "snarky traducción" which means "snarky translation"
[09:42] <snadge> brunch875, this is for the next ubuntu.. ubuntu+2
[09:43] <snadge> relax.. take a deep breath.. this isn't happening tomorrow :p
[09:43] <brunch875> there's actually an invite-only #ubuntu+2
[09:43] <brunch875> fascinating
[09:44] <snadge> thats where the super elite get real work and discussion done on making that a reality ;)
[09:44] <k1l_> right now its not clear what happens to unity. unity7 is a dead end, since sometime in the future everyone wants to switch to wayland away from x11.
[09:44] <k1l_> i dont know if there will be a community effort to keep unity alive and port it to wayland.
[09:45] <snadge> i dont think thats really the interesting part
[09:45] <brunch875> it is for me
[09:45] <snadge> its moreso, what can be done with gnome shell.. to make it more "ubuntu" like
[09:45] <snadge> so that the transition isn't jarring for normal users
[09:46] <nanodrone> define ubuntu like
[09:46] <brunch875> unity is the most comfortable one... Least clutter of all of them
[09:46] <k1l_> the reason why there is unity in the first place is that gnome doesnt want to accept patches to make gnome look different than gnome looks.
[09:46] <nanodrone> shell extensions can be used to make it look more like unity
[09:47] <brunch875> k1l_: So will the transition occur naturally with patches in zesty or do we have to re-download?
[09:47] <snadge> okay sure.. some middle ground will be found surely.. i would actually have to use them side by side to establish a list of obvious differences etc
[09:47] <k1l_> and i guess people are overestimating that there will be a unity like gnome-shell now based on vanilla gnome
[09:47] <snadge> even if its just the colour scheme, and icon sets
[09:47] <snadge> and maybe a guide or a tutorial on first startup
[09:47] <nanodrone> unity is faster than gnome
[09:47] <k1l_> so either it will be just a gnome-shell like redhat wants it to look like or it will be a more unity like gnome-frankenstein
[09:48] <k1l_> that are my 2 realistic options.
[09:48] <snadge> im personally happy with something in the middle of that
[09:48] <k1l_> snadge: i doubt there will be middle solution
[09:48] <snadge> they cant not let you change the theme and icon sets
[09:49] <k1l_> brunch875: no, there will be no changes for 17.04. that will still ship unity.
[09:49] <snadge> they can't not accept patches for features which will benefit existing gnome desktop users
[09:49] <k1l_> snadge: please read about the history of unity. that is exact the reason why unity was made. unity7 is "another" gnome-shell
[09:50] <snadge> im personally happy with unity.. but if im forced to change to gnome shell.. i will.. i'll just live with it
[09:50] <k1l_> just look at the mess gnome got with notifications and the indicators. they changed a lot of them back to more common linux-desktop standards.
[09:51] <snadge> just like i had to adapt to unity when it was first instroduced, and it horrified me.. and over time i got to like it.. i gave it a chance
[09:52] <snadge> at the time though.. it horrified me less than the gnome shell did, for the reasons that unity's existence was brought about
[09:52] <k1l_> well, most users were not only horrified by unity. they were horrified that gnome2 was shut down and they needed to look for something new but wanted to use gnome2. its not like everyone was happy to use gnome-shell back then
[09:52] <brunch875> I loved unity from the beginning. So clean...
[09:53] <brunch875> I tried gnome3 but it's so cluttered and lacks shortcuts
[09:53] <snadge> yeah.. was an occasional user of flashback.. lets not forget that, and that you can use it in both compiz and metacity mode.. thats pretty darn sweet
[09:53] <snadge> i dont think the flashback guys, get enough credit
[09:54] <snadge> to gnome-desktops credit.. its better than it was.. i can't really say by how much though, thats kind of subjective
[09:57] <k1l_> i dont think redhat got the same snarky comments when reverting trashing the gnome2-look and make that part of the gnome3 again.
[10:00] <nanodrone> i just learned that unity HUD is downstream hacks :|
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[15:23] <rektide> i upgraded to Zesty. if I launch with the 4.10 kernel there, and log in and open a terminal and try something like `sudo ls`, sudo never asks me for a password. it sits there forever.
[15:23] <rektide> i had to switch back to a 4.4 kernel to be able to function
[15:23] <rektide> any suggestions? please help.
[15:25] <nacc> rektide: well you should have been on 4.8
[15:25] <nacc> rektide: as you had to be on 16.10 before 17.04
[15:25] <nacc> rektide: did 4.8 work?
[15:25] <rektide> oh i have a 4.8 kernel. when i run the 4.8 kernel, i get the login screen but after typing username password, my window manager (Awesome) never runs.
[15:26] <rektide> it just sits with the 17.04 wallpaper hanging out
[15:26] <rektide> i did upgrade to 16.10, i did it all via do-release-upgrade -d's.
[15:26] <nacc> rektide: ok, just checking
[15:28] <rektide> any idea why 4.8 never takes me to my desktop?
[15:28] <nacc> rektide: it sounds like it does, but your wm maybe crashes?
[15:28] <nacc> rektide: i would start with a more default setup and see if it works
[16:15] <rektide> nacc: nothing loads in 4.8. i tried Unity8, Gnome classic. With these options there's a spinner that starts up on the right side of the password field and then nothing happens.
[16:16] <nacc> rektide: hrm, that's very strange -- any chance you can try a 17.04 live usb/
[16:16] <rektide> I tried switching to a different virtual terminal with control-alt-f1 control-alt-f2 &c to see if I could get logs or something for what was happening
[16:16] <rektide> but no hotkeys seemed to get me out of the greeter. :(
[16:45] <rektide> any guesses why sudo doesn't ever show me a prompt in 4.10?
[16:45] <rektide> i'm pretty good with Linux generally, but i have a really hard time imagining why a kernel upgrade would prevent sudo from ever showing a prompt
[16:46] <rektide> i also can't ssh when i'm in 4.10??? i think?
[16:46] <rektide> i've made a huge mistake in trying to upgrade. :(
[16:47]  * genii blinks
[16:47] <genii> Oh, not 4.10 Warty, something else
[16:47] <rektide> Zesty has a 4.10 package that i installed
[16:48] <rektide> the 4.8 package really really really doesn't work at all- i can't get past the greeter. and i can't find out how to get logs when it fails like that.
[16:50] <nacc> rektide: 4.8 is 16.10, not 17.04 at all
[16:50] <nacc> rektide: but if you had problems there, then it seems like upgrading was maybe the wrong choice (rather than just fixing whatever was breaking)
[16:50] <nacc> rektide: but in any case, did you try live usb?
[16:51] <rektide> nacc: i searched for a usb drive at work, haven't found one yet
[16:53] <rektide> i still need to make my workstation work- would having a live usb help me get this workstation going again somehow?
[16:55] <nacc> rektide: well it would confirm if it's a configuration issue locally
[16:55] <rektide> but not help me figure out why, for example, sudo never prompts me
[16:56] <rektide> hm maybe i can su to root-- if i can find the password, such that i at least have logs i can look at
[16:56] <rektide> this upgrade! :'(
[17:01] <rektide> so no one has any idea how to debug sudo, or knows anything about why it's very very dfiferent and broken and never shows me a prompt in 17.04? :(
[17:02] <rektide> i'd guess there's some kind of new security policy somewhere
[17:02] <rektide> i also can't ssh
[17:02] <rektide> is there some new se-linux bits that are on by default starting post 16.04 ?
[17:03] <rektide> there's something very very odd when changing kernel versions does things like prevent sudo from running
[17:03] <rektide> i wish someone in here could speak up and give me some pointers
[17:03] <nacc> rektide: right, so i'm guessing you've modified a config file and it's incompatible
[17:03] <nacc> rektide: that's why i've said use a live usb
[17:03] <nacc> rektide: otherwise it's hard to debug
[17:04] <rektide> i can prove that it is a local issue, but i still won't have a working development system once i prove it is local
[17:04] <rektide> i also don't have usb drives on hand to do this with. :/
[17:04] <nacc> rektide: well you could either reinstall
[17:04] <nacc> rektide: or could chroot in and diff things in /etc, say
[17:05] <rektide> would there not be a .dpkg-dist variant when doing a do-release-upgrade -d ?
[17:06] <nacc> rektide: only if it's an actual conf file
[17:06] <nacc> but you might ahve put it in in a .d directory
[18:18] <rektide> wahoo! i wish i knew what i'd changed- i found some un-upgraded packages to update mostly- but i have a somewhat working 17.04
[18:19] <rektide> when i open unity-control-panel, i only have 3 options: language support, printers, software updates. anyone have guesses for why i don't see more options?
[18:19] <nacc> rektide: ah interesting
[18:20] <rektide> i also had my 4.10 kernel upgrade from from -14 to -15. v0v
[18:21] <rektide> in particular i'd really like to update my gnome theme. this one is ugly. :) unity-control-center is the way i know of doing that, but there's no options for changing theme. (gnome-control-center reflects the same 3 options + "backups")
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