[01:31] How does the licensing work for unity8? Could someone just start putting it on phones and sell it? === JanC is now known as Guest52949 === JanC_ is now known as JanC === ivan_ is now known as ivan [06:34] Good morning [06:57] morning all [06:57] o/ [06:59] hiyup, everything good this morning? [07:01] Yeah, quite allright. [07:01] How about there? [07:03] all good so far, quite crap weather though. [07:05] hard at work already? [07:10] Jup, indeed. [07:10] Not great weather here either. Was quite cold this morning. [07:16] not sure yet if it's cold, but it's really depressingly grey. i've got fresh tea, though, so all will be well ;) [09:08] Good morning [10:05] Any news about Unity8 preview on 17.04? [10:06] *17.10? [10:06] 17.10? guessing it won't be there. === ExecSlim is now known as Guest55459 [10:18] HI folks [10:18] wb BluesKaj [10:19] 'Morning ducasse [10:22] hey guys [10:22] how are you? [10:22] hi ikevin [10:22] Hi ikevin, fine here, and you? [10:24] sun is up, girls give skirts, then, all good here :D [10:26] just dawning here, need more coffee [10:27] here it's beer time :D [10:37] KristijanZic, ducasse: timing of this news is a bit unfortunate, eh [10:38] I suppose 17.10 will still be released with Unity. [10:46] http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-touch-and-unity-8-are-not-dead-ubports-community-will-keep-them-alive-514620.shtml [10:46] oh my... [10:47] http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/ubuntu-18-04-ship-gnome-desktop-not-unity [10:48] if that isnt big news [10:53] hey BluesKaj [10:54] Hi lotuspsychje [11:11] Does anyone of you plan to join Marius and UBports to continue Unity8 and convergence effort? [11:12] * lordievader uses KDE on Gentoo... [11:12] !touch | KristijanZic follow the discussions there all day [11:12] KristijanZic follow the discussions there all day: Information about the Ubuntu Touch platform for Phone and Tablet is available here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch . Support and discussion in #ubuntu-touch [11:13] i've not tryed unity8, does it really a good DE? [11:13] ikevin: wasnt finished fully [11:14] ikevin: last news we heard, canonical said to leave the user the choice on unity7 or unity8... [11:14] now shuttleworth says ubuntu phone was a mistake? [11:14] it's not stable just yet but it offers a great workflow on toch enabled devices. I own an ubuntu phone and use Unity8 on my convergent dell laptop, it is awesome [11:15] i got bq 4.5 also and touch on my nexus7 tablet [11:15] very happy on it [11:15] lotuspsychje, i think ubuntu phone is a mistake yes :x [11:15] i dont think so [11:15] i think the world is now ready for ubuntu to install on any machine [11:16] I mean I just can't see the future with gnome, gnome is not optimized at all for touch input and there are more and more touch enabled laptops [11:16] ubuntu for pc yes, so not for phone, and not with unity [11:16] we aint seen nothing yet guys [11:17] ubuntu will fail on tablet and phone like ms have fail [11:17] im sure some will find a way into mobile world [11:17] thats not what mariogrip and his team think of it ikevin [11:18] ikevin: and the XDA forums porting machines every day [11:18] I'm sure if ubuntu phone had firewall there would be a niche market but enough to keep the ship float. Just consider all the tinfoil ppl. [11:18] there a lot of try for porting linux on mobile device, openmoko is maybe the first, and all have failed [11:19] android made it better then windows right? [11:19] also linux based [11:19] android is a modified linux version [11:19] but android sux alot lol [11:19] and android is a mobile device os, and android fail on pc world [11:19] hey EriC^^ [11:19] hey [11:20] lotuspsychje: Why does Android suck? [11:20] EriC^^: heard the big news yet? [11:20] yeah, no more unity! :( [11:20] lordievader: security on android is a nightmare right? [11:20] this is worse than xchat not being released for 16.04 [11:20] :D [11:20] lol EriC^^ [11:20] i guess some folks will maintain it with a ppa? [11:20] EriC^^: http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-touch-and-unity-8-are-not-dead-ubports-community-will-keep-them-alive-514620.shtml [11:21] ah nice :D [11:21] lotuspsychje, security on popular os is always a nightmare [11:21] lotuspsychje: How so? It runs SELinux. [11:21] EriC^^: big discussions going on at #ubuntu-touch [11:21] lotuspsychje: aha [11:21] ikevin: thats true, hackers always try popular things on any Os [11:21] only unknown os are secure [11:22] ubuntu is dropping ubuntu touch smartphone right? [11:22] lordievader: got a modified android? [11:22] EriC^^: seems like it [11:22] lotuspsychje: ? [11:22] lotuspsychje: https://source.android.com/security/selinux/ [11:23] lordievader: google appstrore is full of malware apps that break security in no-time [11:23] alot of nuke tools out there to complete override any android device [11:23] steal everything [11:24] lotuspsychje: Don't think the fdroid store is any different, or the Ios store, or the Windows app store. [11:24] lotuspsychje: That comes with popularity. [11:24] lotuspsychje, it's the same when using ubuntu (or any another OS), if you install some shit, your secure OS become unsecure [11:24] also true [11:24] lotuspsychje: Bit of the responsibility of the user, imo. [11:24] I won't do any personal stuff like naking on my phone [11:24] its the users behaviour also [11:25] banking [11:25] BluesKaj: totaly agree with you [11:25] my whole country does unsafe banking on android... [11:25] soon we will hear alot of money got stolen [11:26] these ppl that use their phones as pc gateways to the net are just asking for trouble [11:26] true BluesKaj [11:26] some guys say that *bsd is the only os that is secure, that wrong, *bsd is secure because only geek use it [11:26] and I know quite a few who do [11:26] Ios icloud, been hacked on the fappening several times...it was so secure in the cloud [11:27] when people do secure things, another people can break it :) [11:27] yep [11:28] security is like unicorn, people talk about them so we never see them [11:29] lol [11:29] -so+but [11:29] now im really curious how 18.04 will look like [11:30] vanilla ubuntu-gnome as default? [11:30] i think no inovation [11:30] weird unity started using gnome apps like gnome-software, they knew this? [11:31] or they were so desperate on finding new things, they used gnome apps? [11:31] ikevin: might be no inovation then [11:32] ubuntu will look like MS, no inovation, just changing some graphic stuff [11:32] lol [11:39] lotuspsychje: i read that they switched to gnome-software cause the software-center wasn't making money and it's just a money sink for the devs that work on it [11:39] nobody was buying anything i guess [11:42] i see.. [11:43] so our future will be gnome and snaps? [11:43] back to oldskool lol [11:43] :D [11:43] why paying for free software? [11:43] * EriC^^ really doesn't like gnome [11:44] why did they quit the ubuntu phone though? [11:44] iirc, vlc need to be payed if you use snaps, and free if you use apt [11:44] google is making phones and stuff and they are making some money [11:44] * BluesKaj is happy with kde/plasma ...so far [11:45] you know what i really love, that the leave the user the choice of everything [11:45] isnt that supposed to be the opensource thought? [11:45] flavors is what makes it good right [11:46] yeah freedom and choice [11:46] wow though they abandoned unity altogether though, pretty amazing [11:46] yep that i dont like lol [11:46] was getting so used to it [11:46] they designed it with phones in mind first? i mean why abandon now? [11:47] i dont get it neither... [11:47] it was like the ubuntu flagship [11:47] probly have omething that suits gnome better in the works, just not announcing it yet [11:48] ubuntu-gnome-touch to the rescue lol [11:48] iirc, unity is gtk based ... [11:49] someone will have to change alot of !triggers here heh [11:49] dear lord [11:50] lunch time, cya :) [11:53] bon apetit ikevin :p [11:53] it's probly a financial decision, the direction they took with mir and ignoring wayland was puzzling and finally realized this development was costing too much [11:54] BluesKaj: the insights article says, their pumping more effort in IOT and juju stuff etc [11:54] unity being a part of that [11:54] lotuspsychje, merci :) [11:54] https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/ [11:56] shuttleworth is looking for a more secure and predictable revenue stream [11:58] i might believe in what you said BluesKaj, perhaps they already have another plan going we cant see yet... [11:59] life is change, what can we do? [12:00] lotuspsychje, it's just a guess, but that's what it smells like to me :-) [12:01] lets layback and wait the future to unfold :p [12:33] as long as i get my lts every two years idc [13:05] Ben64: yeah i need my lts aswell..but how will it unfold is a big mystery [13:23] alot of discussers today wow [13:40] http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/5-questions-asking-future-ubuntu [13:58] Good news everyone: http://www.unity8.org/ [13:58] lol [13:59] community vs canonical === IdleOne is now known as Guest17507 === Guest17507 is now known as IdleOne [14:39] its so quite in here [14:39] immu: it's early [14:39] immu: this channel is almost always quiet. [14:39] also true [14:40] yesterday was a rarity because of the news, and trying to keep off-topic discussion out of main [14:56] going linux mint, will see whats up in 2018 [16:28] howdy baizon [16:29] hi lotuspsychje [16:29] sad days for ubuntu users :( [16:29] baizon: yep, you also heard the news? [16:30] i did even post it :( [16:30] post it where [16:30] on reddit [16:30] on my post got to the front page [16:30] wow, url? [16:30] home? [16:31] lotuspsychje: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/63mxms/ubuntu_1804_to_ship_with_gnome_desktop_not_unity/ [16:31] lets c [16:31] 1700 comments holy... [16:32] * nacc doesn't consider it sad at all [16:32] ubuntu finally gives up on forking the desktop is a good thing (tm) [16:32] i dont want unity to die :/ [16:33] it won't [16:33] as long as a community exists to support it [16:33] I believe this was OerHeks point in #ubuntu yesterday [16:34] wb brunch875 [16:34] and hi nacc :p [16:34] heya [16:34] welcome lotuspsychje! [16:34] unity is the best DE [16:34] works flawless for me [16:35] well, to be clear [16:35] "works flawless" != "best" [16:35] what is it with mark, to always say we were wrong about... [16:35] or at least not necessarily [16:36] the ubuntu touch guys worked like day & night to achieve stuff on mobile [16:36] understandable they wanna keep that alive [16:37] right, but afaict, the mobile side is pretty dead [16:37] no new ubuntu phones on the horizon on the wiki [16:37] so it's all well and good to make a nice product [16:37] but nowhere to deploy it makes it a dead product still [16:37] (IMO) [16:39] nacc: but alot of linux enthousiasts like their ubuntu phones right [16:40] lotuspsychje: yes, the cost of early adoption [16:40] not that different from that ouya thing IMO [16:43] hey acheron-a [16:43] hello lotuspsychje [16:44] i can believe unity is going away [16:44] can=can't [16:45] its the main news today acheron-a :p [16:45] yeah [16:45] unity will stay, unity8 will be dropped or ... who knows? https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/06/canonical_cuts_jobs_with_unity_bullet/ [16:45] i'm on Cinn DE 3.2 right now running on ubuntu [16:46] oh .. https://unity8.org/ [16:46] lol, of course [16:46] because i tried gnome and thats not an option [16:47] acheron-a: MATE? or tweak gnome to your liking with a new WM or something [16:47] or conky [16:47] or a dock [16:47] OerHeks, thats shocking news [16:47] it's linux. you can do whatever you want [16:48] nicomachus, exactly [16:48] im not waiting to use gnome shell either.. [16:48] i found you can bypass mint and just load the DE from where they probaly get it from [16:48] ppa:embrosyn/cinnamon [16:50] wow, half the staff [16:51] * nacc isn't sure how much the register should be trusted for facts [16:51] that really lowers morale for those who remain and whatever reason can't leave [16:51] i went thru that at HP [16:52] looks like an IPO is next on the Canonical agenda [16:53] yup [16:54] seems debian is my refuge [16:54] looks like they are focusing on enterprise and the cloud [16:54] it is the future... [16:55] does anyone make any money on linux on the desktop? [16:55] afaict, no [16:56] the munich thing was the biggest deployment iirc -- and that's being undone, even if for political reasons [16:56] I was told to come here to air my complaints with Shuttleworth [16:56] lol [16:56] well unity was pretty much the only distro that had a full staff of paid devs [16:56] acheron-a: right [16:57] i think rh workstation (if it still exists) also has/had a team [16:57] It enrages me that hundreds of engineers were tasked with making Unity while Gnome 3 languished. Think of all the enhancements and bug fixes that could have been pushed upstream from the Ubuntu development team [16:57] gnome isn't an ubuntu project. [16:57] What a colossal waste of resources [16:57] * nacc would be surprised if that count actually was hundreds [16:58] the entire company is in the hundreds [16:58] nacc: right, but I'm sure they have outside contributions as well [16:58] ok, then they weren't "tasked with" anything, they made a choice [16:58] again [16:58] What a colossal waste of resources [16:58] ubuntu gnome has existed the whole time [16:58] and has been getting changes, afaict [16:59] Not at the pace and focus of Unity [16:59] well look at what mint has done and Debian is still there too [16:59] and Ubuntu Gnome only recently began picking up steam [16:59] Either way, Ubuntu [16:59] BenderRodriguez: i don't disagree with you, i just don't think rage achieves anything [16:59] esp. in this channel, as none of us are in charge [16:59] or rather, Shuttleworth, is gunning for Red Hat [16:59] I think it's silly to get angry about it. [17:00] He wants Ubuntu to be an enterprise OS [17:00] that saddens me [17:00] It was a project they thought was worthwhile, and it turned out that it wasn't working for them. [17:00] * nacc doesn't speak to someone else's wants [17:00] Shrug your shoulders and move on. [17:00] * nacc does think company owners want their company's to be profitable [17:00] he wants Canonical to be solvent, without relying on his fortune to keep it afloat.. [17:00] and as i said, i don't think desktop makes money anywhere [17:01] (linux desktop) [17:01] right, in order tobe solvent you have to sell the soul and purpose of the initiative [17:01] pauljw: yeah, that seems to be the primary motivation [17:01] Ubuntu was primaril a desktop OS meant to offer a bridge for Windows users [17:01] stop giving it away, that would be the first step to making money. [17:01] BenderRodriguez: uh, i don't think 'unity' was ever the heart and soul of initiative, do you have a documentation of that? [17:01] now they push cloud infrastructure like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread [17:01] BenderRodriguez: or for the second statement? [17:01] BenderRodriguez: you don't exactly keep your soul if you die, either (aka, go bankrupt). [17:02] I doubt Ubuntu's primary reason for existing was ever to be a 'bridge' [17:02] nacc: I'm refering to the project as a whole. [17:02] BenderRodriguez: right, documentation? [17:02] tgm4883: Of course it was. The old motto was reflective of that [17:02] tgm4883: "linux for human beings"? [17:02] remember that/ [17:02] lol [17:02] how is that "migrate from windows"? [17:02] BenderRodriguez: being a bridge suggests that it's users would eventually move to other linux distros [17:03] tgm4883: no. Being a bridge suggests they wanted people to move from Windows to Linux [17:03] or rather [17:03] Ubuntu [17:03] anyway, the point being, those days are gnoe [17:03] I think if even 1% of the people contributed back to their desktop environment of choice instead of bitching about it, linux on the desktop would be amazing. It is open source after all. We wouldn't need a Canonical to do it for us. [17:03] gone*. Ubuntu is an enterprise company now [17:03] 100 ^5s for Fingel [17:03] BenderRodriguez: Ubuntu is not a company [17:04] Canonical. [17:04] Dude [17:04] don't split hairs [17:04] nacc: what does that mean [17:04] BenderRodriguez: don't rant without facts [17:04] Fingel: high five = ^5 [17:04] ah [17:04] if there is true interest in Unity, it will carry on in FOSS [17:04] Fingel: i emphatically agree with you :) [17:05] nacc: don't split hairs. You're detracting from my point and you obviously knew what I meant. [17:05] There's already people that said they will carry on Unity [17:05] https://unity8.org/ [17:05] BenderRodriguez: Canonical has always been a company. I don't know what you mean "enterprise company". [17:05] ^ [17:05] nacc: then you don't know what Canonical is doing to Ubuntu [17:05] thus have no room to comment on it [17:05] move on [17:05] BenderRodriguez: let's stay civil shall we [17:05] BenderRodriguez: your point seems to be, "How dare Canonical realize that they actually need to make money." [17:06] They're making money by turning Ubuntu into smoething it wasn't meant to be [17:06] is my point [17:06] BenderRodriguez: what's the root of your anger, that Canonical is no longer funding Unity development? [17:06] it was all about shedding bodies for that something that was given away to attract investors [17:07] BenderRodriguez: if you love unity so much, contribute to it, no one is stopping you [17:07] BenderRodriguez: if that's your point, it's debatable. Moving back to Gnome doesn't mean that it's no longer "for human beans" [17:07] Canonical is trying to turn Ubuntu into a enterprise linux distro, like Red Hat, with a somewhat abandoned UI experience that only takes whatever is given from upstream providers and just roll some expensive support package [17:07] you know this how? [17:08] BenderRodriguez: so? [17:08] it's on their website? [17:08] it's in their business offerings? [17:09] there are many ui's available, unity is not the definition of ubuntu. it was hated when first introduced. [17:09] BenderRodriguez: let's just pretend that what you're saying is true. That has zero impact on the flavors [17:09] The flavors can and will continue doing their own thing [17:09] if the argument is that if unity never existed, then gnome would be better, that's probably reasonable to conclude [17:10] but gnome is already better than it was before [17:10] ubuntu server is already very much an enterprise linux. [17:10] so it's a matter of degrees [17:10] pauljw: yep [17:10] nacc: I'd concede that, however isn't Gnome upstream resistant to outside patches? [17:10] tgm4883: honestly, i'm not sure :) [17:10] Unity isn't the first time, nor will it be the last time, a company devoted resources to a project that simply did not pan out for them. [17:10] no. I sent in a patch 2 days ago [17:10] there you go :) [17:10] they are very open to patches [17:11] tgm4883: i think there was some restructuring in their org, but i might be misremebering [17:11] https://wiki.gnome.org/Newcomers/ [17:11] Fingel: sending in patches and getting patches accepted is different, but I don't follow it much [17:11] I mean, take a look at what Linux Mint is doing with their limited resources. Now imagine if Canonical invested as heavily into the desktop market providing really good user experience and stable code, something that takes a lot of time and money and what the smaller projects like Kubuntu and Xubuntu simply cannot provide [17:11] *why* would canonical invest heavily in the 'desktop market'? [17:11] they were doing it for convergence (afaict) [17:11] BenderRodriguez: what exactly is Linux Mint doing? [17:11] and convergence is being abandoned, as is most of mobile [17:12] Because desktop is what made Ubuntu popular and they should not abandon it for the sake of money [17:12] lol [17:12] and made $0 [17:12] BenderRodriguez: so who pays for those desktop developers then? [17:12] so it's a giant money pit, as it has been for anyone who has tried to do this [17:12] note the only desktops that are profitable, it seems like to me, are those you don't get a choice on (and so pay for no matter what) macos and wintel [17:13] tgm4883, they work for free don't they?? :) [17:13] * nacc understood us to be discussion canonical, which is paid employees [17:13] *discussing [17:13] pauljw: can we pay them like creative people? In exposure? [17:13] tgm4883: like ... nudity opportunities? :) [17:13] :) [17:14] you get a flash and you get a flash and you get a flash! [17:14] nacc: I think I'd rather eat [17:14] tgm4883: :) [17:15] BenderRodriguez: I'm as sad as the next person as I like Unity, however I don't think Canonical owes anyone to continue developing it [17:18] everyone who thinks unity8 is so important needs to go the unity8.org site and setup a couple hundred dollar per month contribution to support the fork. [17:20] tgm4883: last time mark said, they will leave the user the choice..unity7 or 8 [17:23] pauljw: LOL [17:23] "but I want it and I want it now and I want it free and I don't wanna contribute" [17:23] nicomachus: sounds about right. [17:23] "JUST GIVE IT TO ME, I DESERVE IT" [17:23] pauljw: time or money, not both [17:24] I'd post a link to a comic showing how I feel about a lot of this complaining, but I've been told it would not promote worthwhile discussion. [17:24] and i want it perfect... [17:24] (Not by anyone here, mind.) [17:24] DArqueBishop: let's see it. As long as it's not vulgar or NSFW [17:24] lol [17:24] Vulgar is debatable. [17:24] https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/06/30/also-known-as-blackmail [17:25] lol [17:25] lol [17:25] :) [17:32] \o [17:32] o/ [17:59] hey ducasse [18:00] hi hendrix [18:22] http://techrights.org/2017/04/05/philips-ericsson-microsoft-have-trolls/ [18:26] http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Canonical-Reg-Jobs-Investments [18:29] What's the future of Ubuntu [18:30] I'm wondering the same thing. [18:30] Too bad they're making us wait for a year. [18:30] http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/ubuntu-18-04-ship-gnome-desktop-not-unity [18:30] poinku: taht question is pointlessly vague [18:30] I'll be testing the alpha images when they come out months before then. :) [18:30] poinku: do you mean unity specifically? [18:33] Yes [18:34] erle-: its not recommended to join irc as root [18:34] poinku: well, presumably community will maintain it if they care to and it will be a flavor/installable still [18:34] poinku: just not necessarily the default [18:34] lotuspsychje, #yolo [18:34] !stab | erle- [18:35] pro tip: I am not root. [18:36] erle-: its your machine, do whatever you want [18:36] also, yolo is dumb [18:37] #reincarnation [18:37] lol [18:38] Should be used with things like "Using the hand rail when I go down stairs #YOLO" [18:38] hehe [18:39]