[04:02] <Mirv> robert_ancell: and I stop being highlighted whenever there is talk about Mirvfb!
[04:02] <robert_ancell> Mirv, :)
[07:47] <willcooke> morning all
[07:47] <didrocks> hey willcooke
[07:49] <robert_ancell> willcooke, hi
[07:49] <willcooke> Today might well be a two-cups-of-tea before 9am day
[07:49] <willcooke> hey robert_ancell, thanks for hanging around
[07:49] <willcooke> Fun Friday night eh?
[07:49] <robert_ancell> willcooke, the music in the call seems to indicate that
[07:52] <seb128> hey willcooke didrocks robert_ancell
[07:52] <robert_ancell> o/
[07:52] <seb128> you dial in 10 minutes in advance?
[07:52] <seb128> like the sound of that music? :p
[07:52] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, wanted to check it was going to work before it starts
[07:52] <robert_ancell> seb128, it's actually putting me in a good mood!
[07:52] <didrocks> re seb128, hey willcooke
[07:53] <seb128> haha
[07:53] <didrocks> oupss
[07:53] <didrocks> robert_ancell: ^ ;)
[07:53] <robert_ancell> yo didrocks
[07:54] <willcooke> morning seb128
[07:57] <duflu> I swear I've heard this music just before product launches...
[07:57] <Laney> sup
[07:57]  * Laney came up pre pips
[07:57] <Laney> prips
[07:58] <duflu> Morning Laney, willcooke, seb128, didrocks, Europe
[07:59] <didrocks> hey duflu
[07:59] <Laney> ahoy duflu
[07:59] <Laney> how's it going
[07:59] <duflu> Laney: Let's see...
[07:59] <willcooke> hey duflu
[08:48]  * allison[m] sighs, contentedly
[08:49] <allison[m]> seb128: once upon a time, in brussels, a long long time ago, you told me that the tentative plan "for now" was to ship gnome-shell when it's ready
[08:49] <seb128> sticking to the plan! :-)
[08:49] <allison[m]> yup :)
[08:49]  * allison[m] is actually quite happy
[08:49] <allison[m]> looking forward to installing ubuntu again :)
[08:50] <seb128> :-)
[08:50] <allison[m]> furthermore: it's a beautiful day!
[08:57] <TheMuso> Hey folks, just in time.
[08:59] <Laney> Nope
[09:01] <TheMuso> Oh miscalculated time...
[09:01] <TheMuso> ugy
[09:04] <TheMuso> allison[m]: Yeah, I am rather ahppy too. Wasn't looking forward to implementing a11y from scratch in a shell that only a small group of people maintain. :)
[09:05] <TheMuso> happy*
[09:07] <seb128> TheMuso, I'm not sure there are more people maintaining gnome-shell than we had people working on unity...
[09:07] <TheMuso> seb128: Probably not, but the a11y infrastructure is already reasonably well established.
[09:07] <allison[m]> i'd suspect the opposite, in fact :p
[09:07] <seb128> TheMuso, that's a different statement than the one you just made
[09:07] <TheMuso> There is already something to work with.
[09:08] <TheMuso> Yeah sometimes I'm not the best at putting my thoughts accross. :)
[09:09] <TheMuso> Easier to improve something that is already established rather than having to start almost from scratch.
[09:09] <seb128> would be nice also to not openly dismiss the work from your collegues that were working on hard on unity
[09:09] <seb128> whatever your thinking might be
[09:10] <seb128> but yeah it makes some things easier to build on a product that's further along the line
[09:10] <TheMuso> I have been thinking of those folks for the last couple of days. I do feel sorry for them.
[09:24] <flexiondotorg> jbicha I've just install Ubuntu GNOME 17.04 on my XPS 15 :-)
[10:57]  * Laney wibbles
[11:08] <tjaalton> the mouse cursor keeps jumping on gnome-shell, which doesn't happen under unity.. and sometimes it gets stuck as if a button is pressed
[11:52] <jbicha> tjaalton: I'm sorry, I've seen that too occasionally and logging out and logging back in fixes that
[12:35] <tjaalton> jbicha: no worries, this is probably a bastardized install anyway
[12:39] <Laney> seb128: is it time for a langpack export/upload? (is it normal to do one around this point?)
[12:39] <Laney> ah, looks like yakkety got oen on the monday before release
[12:39] <Laney> one*
[13:16] <seb128> Laney, launchpad exports happen on tuesdays, if we need one before we should ask wgrant if he can trigger one manually
[13:16] <seb128> Laney, https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/zesty/+language-packs
[13:51] <Laney> seb128: k, don't know how fresh it needs to be
[14:03] <seb128> Laney, Gunnar wanted them to be exported after yesterday since the schedule has that as a limit for translators to do their langpack work
[14:04] <seb128> I've pinged him about that, let's see
[14:04] <Laney> ok
[14:04] <seb128> him = wgrant
[14:04] <Laney> good work
[14:23] <seb128> Laney, k, we are getting a new export and I'm going to kick another langpack update once the tarball is there
[14:23] <Laney> great
[14:23] <seb128> thanks for the reminder
[14:23] <Laney> thanks for being the langpack person :P
[14:24] <seb128> :-)
[15:31] <willcooke> seb128, Laney, Trevinho - please land that cats in the dash thing NOW!
[15:32] <Laney> free the fish!
[15:40] <kenvandine> lol
[16:42] <Trevinho> willcooke: eheh :-)
[16:42] <Trevinho> willcooke: yeah, lots of plans for landing.... But Laney is blocking my projects for sure! :-)
[16:46] <seb128> Trevinho, the man who never sleeps
[16:46] <Laney> he got drunk at the party
[16:46] <Laney> IRCing nfrom the dance floor
[16:46]  * Trevinho ahaha, well no... I'm just laying in the bed waiti
[16:47] <Trevinho> ups
[16:47] <Trevinho> waiting to see news coming, but...
[16:47] <Trevinho> that was after dancing though
[16:48] <Trevinho> But if you really want these cats back, really, I can do a MP in 2 seconds :-D
[16:49] <jbicha> are the cats dancing too?
[16:54] <Trevinho> jbicha: unfortunately not... they cry!
[16:57] <jbicha> that sounds broken then :(
[16:57] <Laney> https://twitter.com/turing_police/status/849851247821701120
[17:06] <willcooke> night all
[17:06] <willcooke> dont know what else to say.
[17:06] <willcooke> :(
[17:07] <Laney> oh
[17:07] <Laney> he did a didrocks
[17:10] <ogra_> lol
[17:10]  * ogra_ notes that down
[17:53] <jdstrand> jbicha, tjaalton: is that under wayland or X?
[17:58] <jbicha> I don't remember; I use GNOME on Wayland a lot but not all the time
[18:03] <jbicha> Ubuntu GNOME didn't switch to Wayland by default for 16.10 or 17.04 because we didn't have enough Ubuntu developers/testing to support it, but we had been planning to at least discuss it for 18.04 LTS (and therefore 17.10)
[18:04] <mdeslaur> assuming there are working nvidia drivers I guess
[18:25] <jbicha> there's some sort of nvidia support for GNOME on Wayland right now in 17.04
[18:26] <jbicha> but I don't know how well it works since I don't have the hardware, there's some discussion on LP: #1666664
[18:27] <jbicha> mdeslaur: so how tough is the mozjs MIR going to be?
[18:28] <mdeslaur> jbicha: I honestly don't know what we'll do about that...it's not as if we'll have a choice
[18:28] <mdeslaur> it really sucks to be running a desktop shell with a javascript engine that has dozens of open CVEs
[18:28] <jbicha> right
[18:29] <mdeslaur> but I don't see a solution...picking that engine was a bad choice
[18:29] <mdeslaur> upstream Mozilla has absolutely no interest in maintain a stable API, so we can't just update it
[18:29] <jbicha> the good news is that Philip Chimento went all the way from mozjs24 to mozjs38 in GNOME 3.24 and the goal is to get to 48 or even 52 in 3.26
[18:30] <mdeslaur> that's only good if you only support your releases for 6 months
[18:30] <jbicha> we need some more help from Mozilla on that
[18:31] <mdeslaur> I don't think they are interested in doing that
[18:31] <jbicha> the official mozjs38 was 38.2 but Fedora just used the last 38 ESR tarball (38.8) to build their mozjs
[18:32] <jbicha> I would have done that for zesty too but the giant tarball was very slow to work with and it was a challenge to create a get-orig-source rule to delete all the extra files mozjs doesn't need
[18:32] <jbicha> and it's probably too late for zesty for that now, even as an sru
[18:33] <jbicha> mdeslaur: are you aware that RHEL does periodic updates of the GNOME stack now? it's not like Debian stable at all where you're stuck on a GNOME version for the whole lifecycle
[18:33] <mdeslaur> 38.8 is sill a year old
[18:33] <xclaesse> let's rewrite gnome-shell in rust with gtk4 instead of clutter... how hard can it be...
[18:33] <jbicha> yes, it's bad but it's still 6 months newer or so
[18:34] <mdeslaur> they only did it the one time, no?
[18:34] <mdeslaur> they went from 3.8.4 to 3.14.4
[18:37] <jbicha> I guess so, but they will do it again: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1258015
[18:37] <mdeslaur> xclaesse: who needs plugins, right?
[18:37] <jbicha> interestingly, it will probably be 3.22, same as Debian stable
[18:37] <mdeslaur> wow, it's fun what you can do with unlimited resources :)
[18:38] <mdeslaur> so once every two years I guess
[18:38] <jbicha> beware the dark side :)
[18:44] <jbicha> they missed 7.3 but I heard someone say a goal of a GNOME update/refresh every year
[18:47] <mdeslaur> sucks to be their customers and have your custom apps break because they've updated gtk
[18:47] <mdeslaur> then again, I don't suppose they have desktop customers
[18:48] <mdeslaur> I don't know, perhaps updating to newest gnome every year is doable...but I suspect that wouldn't accomplish the goal of not investing on desktop
[18:54] <jbicha> I'd be uncomfortable with updating from Xenial's 3.18 to 3.20 because of the last major gtk3 theme break (although admittedly it was done in the gnome3-staging ppa)
[18:54] <jbicha> but since then, gtk at least hasn't been as bad
[18:55] <jbicha> I've no idea if it's actually feasible for Ubuntu, I was just mentioning that Red Hat surprisingly did it
[18:56] <jbicha> no one in Debian is eager to maintain mozjs38 either :|
[18:57] <mdeslaur> jbicha: wait, I thought you were the official Ubuntu GNOME maintainer from now on? :)
[19:01] <jbicha> no pressure, right?
[19:01] <mdeslaur> jbicha: ;)
[19:24] <dobey> hmm
[19:26] <dobey> yeah i still don't get why mozjs
[19:29] <sarnold> lua feels like a thousand times better fit, if a script is absolutely necessary
[19:30] <jbicha> well it made sense at the time but rewriting things is hard *cough*
[19:33] <dobey> i don't think mozjs ever made sense, when webkit was already being used for so many things
[19:37] <jbicha> seed-webkit2 is back in Debian/Ubuntu, I have no idea how hard it would be to switch to that
[19:40] <mdeslaur> it's just an improvement if webkit2's JS engine has a stable api