[00:43] <KristijanZic> good news, Unity8: https://plus.google.com/110699558853693437587/posts/gUB2xRn2Dyu
[00:44] <OerHeks> yay, next to https://github.com/unity8org/unity8org now also https://unity.ubports.com/
[00:45] <OerHeks> people need choise
[00:45] <OerHeks> be smart, register unity9 now!
[00:46] <xangua> Fork? New Ubuntu flavor?
[00:47] <KristijanZic> OerHeks: hah, it's taken at least the .com one, .org still free
[00:47] <OerHeks> smells like it
[01:03] <Bashing-om> Baaacckkk . refreshed to the point I can carry on :)
[01:04] <daftykins> \o/
[01:06] <Bashing-om> Here I go again, see what happens :P
[01:12] <acheron-a> hello Bashing-om
[01:20] <Bashing-om> acheron-a: Hey hey .. what it be ??
[01:20] <acheron-a> its all good
[01:21] <daftykins> i best sleep, g'night folks
[01:21] <acheron-a> g'nite
[01:22] <Bashing-om> Just heard on TV that our president has ordered retalitory strike on Syria .. wow !
[01:23] <Bashing-om> nite daftykins Sleep well my friend .
[02:14] <OerHeks> Bashing-om, i read the Russians knew, so it is oke... maybe
[02:15] <OerHeks> now is certainly a turningpoint.
[02:22] <Bashing-om> OerHeks: Yeah .. just wonder what prompts the US escalation of the military presence in Syria . A change from the Obamma administration's position .
[02:23] <OerHeks> i focus on NKorea too..
[02:28] <Bashing-om> OerHeks: There is that fact too - A stiff warning that Trump will take no flack ( as he formerly did warn) .
[02:30] <OerHeks> now he striked, on behalve of the children, why does USA not ratify the UN childrens rights?
[02:30] <OerHeks> pom-ie-pom
[02:33] <Bashing-om> OerHeks: Uh HUh .. there is that .. children should be raised not exploited - we live in a total world environment . Our children are are what will be .
[02:37] <OerHeks> and the real war is in a totally different place, 5600 miles east .. = Fukushima Daiichi
[02:41] <Bashing-om> World politics .. jockying for control of resources . Greedy men !
[02:44] <OerHeks> one needs to learn 20 years before being productive for 20 years. then the warrenty is over :-D
[02:48] <Bashing-om> OerHeks: Truth ! I often look back at that 20 year old - 40 years later .. the things I would do different !
[03:59] <platzhirsch> Is there a lighter Gnome theme
[05:02] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[05:03] <alkisg> Hi all!
[05:03] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: \o - shift change time :)
[05:03] <lotuspsychje> hey alkisg & Bashing-om
[05:04] <lotuspsychje> what you guys think of the unity vanish?
[05:04] <alkisg> Greatest news ever!
[05:04] <lotuspsychje> lol
[05:04] <lotuspsychje> you like gnome alkisg ?
[05:04] <alkisg> Now if only MATE switched to supporting gnome-flashback instead :D
[05:05] <alkisg> My requirement is simple: I need something that runs on pentium 4's
[05:05] <alkisg> That essentially means 1 GB RAM and no 3D
[05:05] <alkisg> So... we've been using gnome-flashback, and switched to mate for 16.04
[05:05] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I never was a big fan of unity - though I can use it . I like KISS .
[05:06] <lotuspsychje> so what about the ubuntu touch phones?
[05:06] <alkisg> Having a lot of DEs means we waste a whole lot of time just making sure our apps run everywhere, instead of adding new features etc. I don't like that part of the linux ecosystem.
[05:07] <alkisg> I don't think canonical is big enough to hope to have a market share in phones...
[05:07] <lotuspsychje> alkisg: but canonical started unity, then mark said to leave the user the choice on unity7 or 8, now they purge it?
[05:08] <alkisg> They start a lot of things trying to make money, and abandon them if they don't make money
[05:08] <alkisg> That's how companies work
[05:08] <lotuspsychje> right, i understand that
[05:08] <lotuspsychje> still, theirs a whole community to disagree now
[05:09] <alkisg> The problem is that users, applications developers, sysadmins etc have to switch apps, init systems etc all the time
[05:09] <alkisg> Nah I'm fine with upstart, bzr, unity, software-center etc all dying :D
[05:09] <alkisg> Application development isn't what canonical does best
[05:09] <lotuspsychje> well im surely curious on 18.04 now
[05:10] <alkisg> That'll mostly be ubuntu-gnome, right?
[05:10] <lotuspsychje> alkisg: you think it will be vanilla or tuned?
[05:10] <alkisg> I really hope it'll be debian with just an ubuntu font and theme, but I doubt they'll make me happy :(
[05:11] <lotuspsychje> heh
[05:11] <alkisg> My dream is for debian to fix their feature freeze dates at the same time as ubuntu, so that most apps will be exactly the same
[05:11] <lotuspsychje> sounds good idea
[05:11] <alkisg> And then LTS releases .1 to .5 will be just syncs from debian
[05:12] <xangua> Didn't canonical suggested that too Debian and they say no?
[05:12] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: I been watching on #ubuntu-release, and the talk is to remove upstart in 17.04 . will be interesting to see the difference vetween an upgraded 17.04 and a fresh install, if that happens .
[05:13] <lotuspsychje> Bashing-om: is that the channel where new packages spam?
[05:15] <alkisg> xangua: dunno, but if so,  I'd like to read the reasoning behind their refusal
[05:15] <alkisg> Debian could still "release when it's ready"; I was only talking about the freeze date. Where's the harm in having a predictable freeze?
[05:17] <lotuspsychje> alkisg: can you find something here? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu/ForDebianDevelopers
[05:17] <xangua> alkisg: because when it's ready?
[05:18] <xangua> Well it was more like canonical suggested Debian to release a new version every two years... So they could sync it with the LTS
[05:19] <alkisg> That won't work
[05:19] <alkisg> Because they have specific methodology about RC bugs etc
[05:19] <alkisg> But I haven't heard of anything opposing to fixed freeze dates
[05:20] <alkisg> With specific freeze dates, it would be ubuntu helping debian with rc bugs squashing, ie the opposite
[05:20] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/unity-8-now-has-a-new-home-over-at-ubports-development-will-start-very-soon-514663.shtml
[05:21] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/red-hat-and-fedora-teams-welcome-ubuntu-to-gnome-and-wayland-with-open-arms-514661.shtml
[05:23] <alkisg> "...and hopefully Flatpak," ==> yeah that too; snappy is just another 5 years of wasted development power
[05:25] <Bashing-om> me eyes are crossing . time to back out of here . G nite o/
[05:30] <lotuspsychje> morning kostkon
[05:35] <kostkon> Hey,  good morning
[06:18] <ducasse> moring all
[06:20] <lordievader> Good morning
[06:21] <ducasse> \o
[06:22] <lordievader> Hey ducasse, how are you?
[06:22] <ducasse> ok thanks, and you? gotten your coffee yet?
[06:24] <lordievader> Indeed.
[06:25] <lotuspsychje> hey ducasse & lordievader
[06:26] <ducasse> morning lotus, how are you?
[06:26] <lotuspsychje> great here
[06:26] <lotuspsychje> day off movie day here
[06:27] <ducasse> nice, what are you going to watch?
[06:27] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: belgian movie the premier
[06:27] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: and fifty shades darker
[06:28] <lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje
[06:28] <lordievader> Ha, Fifty Shades
[06:28] <lordievader> Enjoy :P
[06:29] <ducasse> i'm guessing you were not the one who chose fifty shades... ;)
[06:29] <lotuspsychje> not sure it will be good
[06:30] <ducasse> it very likely won't :)
[06:30] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: we both liked the first one
[06:30] <lotuspsychje> and my gf read the books
[06:31] <lotuspsychje> any other movies you guys reccomend?
[06:31] <ducasse> well, hope you enjoy noth films :)
[06:31] <ducasse> i'm waiting for the new alien movie
[06:31] <lotuspsychje> is there?
[06:32] <ducasse> in may, i think
[06:32] <lotuspsychje> cool
[06:32] <ducasse> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2316204/?ref_=nv_sr_1
[06:34] <lotuspsychje> trailer looking good ducasse
[06:34] <ducasse> aiui, this one and one more was always planned. in the last one the aliens will arrive at earth >:-)
[06:34] <ducasse> i hope they make that one as well :)
[06:36] <lordievader> The new Alien looks very good :)
[06:36] <lordievader> I'm also waiting for the remake of IT.
[06:36] <lordievader> Trailer was pretty good.
[06:45] <ducasse> the alien monster is my personal favorite movie monster, i can't wait for this one. 'it' i'm not sure about, but i'll probably still see it. i expect it won't be as long as the original?
[06:47] <lordievader> Hope not
[06:47] <lordievader> I still find the way the Alien was filmed in the first movie quite well done. You never see the creature full in frame.
[06:48] <lordievader> Things really went downhill with alien 3...
[06:49] <lotuspsychje> i still have nightmares of playing doom3
[06:49] <lotuspsychje> aliens jumping out the ceiling
[06:52] <ducasse> the first is a classic, two is ok and then... three is better than four, though, so if they keep to the formula the new one will be atrocious ;)
[06:53] <lordievader> Nah, I'm hoping for one as good as the first ;)
[06:54] <lordievader> Oeh, I'm also waiting for the sequel to Blade Runner :)
[06:54] <ducasse> me too, but _very_ nervous about it.
[06:55] <ducasse> also, the dark tower is expected this year, right? they _can't_ screw that up, but i'm afraid they already have.
[06:56] <lordievader> Dark Tower?
[06:56]  * lordievader heads to Google.
[06:57] <ducasse> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1648190/?ref_=nv_sr_1
[06:58] <ducasse> based on the book series by stephen king, which i _love_.
[06:59] <lordievader> Looks interesting
[07:00] <ducasse> i'm a big fan of the book series, but making a single movie out of them is hopeless.
[07:01] <lordievader> That is usually the case ;)
[07:03] <lotuspsychje> bbl breakfast
[07:04] <ducasse> there were originally seven books, each about 500 pages, written over thirty years or so. hard to squeeze that into two hours. i've read a little about it, which seemed to indicate they were going to focus on parts of the books i didn't even like, so i'm concerned :)
[07:04] <lordievader> Eet ze
[07:04] <lotuspsychje> tnx lordievader
[07:04] <ducasse> enjoy
[07:04] <lotuspsychje> tnx
[08:49] <lotuspsychje> !info gnome-games-app
[08:51]  * lotuspsychje is idling in #ubuntu-release
[09:18] <lotuspsychje> !info retro-gtk zesty
[09:22] <lotuspsychje> morning brunch875
[09:22] <brunch875> hayo lotuspsychje
[09:26] <brunch875> I see a lot of people panicking at the end of the mir-project
[09:26] <lotuspsychje> brunch875: where?
[09:26] <brunch875> abandoning ship out of the blue as if ubuntu itself is going down
[09:26] <brunch875> drama queens!
[09:26] <lotuspsychje> lol
[09:26] <brunch875> I hope I'm not doing the same with the phone
[09:27] <lotuspsychje> i want ubuntu-touch to continue also
[09:27] <lotuspsychje> i hope the team finds a way to install on every mobile
[09:27] <brunch875> Indeed... but I have to admit I have mixed feelings about it
[09:29] <lotuspsychje> brunch875: i think the devs did a great job already with so many devices
[09:29] <lotuspsychje> made a big impact in my opinion
[09:30] <brunch875> lotuspsychje: I couldn't agree more, ubuntu touch is magnificent
[09:30] <brunch875> I was really excited to see convergence happening
[09:30] <brunch875> but I'm not sure how much power the guys at UB will pull
[09:31] <lotuspsychje> brunch875: well from the start, i really hoped i could have a tablet/phone with a terminal to work with, just as the desktop
[09:31] <brunch875> my phone saved my ass when my laptop died
[09:32] <lotuspsychje> too bad they locked that from the start
[09:32] <brunch875> the raspberry pi didn't have nearly enough power
[09:33] <brunch875> I wonder if easing a bit on confinement would've made the project more viable now
[09:33] <lotuspsychje> brunch875: i also think so...
[09:33] <brunch875> it's just the whole app lifecycle and confinement...
[09:33] <lotuspsychje> thats what i said in ubuntu-touch yesterday
[09:33] <brunch875> I wonder if they decided to shut it down because confinement was really getting in the way of the desktop
[09:33] <lotuspsychje> you can invent something, then take it away..the spirit will continue
[09:34] <lotuspsychje> cant
[09:34] <lotuspsychje> its a matter of time some brand will choose linux on mobile
[09:35] <brunch875> hard to tell
[09:35] <brunch875> android is linux after all
[09:35] <lotuspsychje> i hear the new samsung s8 got convergence now?
[09:36] <lotuspsychje> the world is ready for all new ideas & brainstorm
[09:36] <brunch875> pff nah... whenever they pull out "convergence" it's just a wannabe layer
[09:36] <brunch875> ubuntu was the closest to convergence
[09:36] <lotuspsychje> indeed
[09:36] <lotuspsychje> i think we aint seen nothing yet
[09:37] <brunch875> I would personally scavenge the whole unity8 interfaces
[09:37] <brunch875> get rid of all confinement
[09:37] <brunch875> and have vanilla ubuntu run on the phone
[09:38] <lotuspsychje> that would be so nice
[09:38] <brunch875> surely it won't be as secure to have applications peer on each other
[09:38] <brunch875> but that's what the desktop has anyway
[09:38] <brunch875> then give the option to install applications with snappy and be done with it
[09:39] <brunch875> unfortunately there's still the whole situation with the linux kernel + drivers
[09:39] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[09:40] <brunch875> I guess that's what sailfish is doing, right?
[09:40] <brunch875> I wonder if the guys at UBports will follow this route
[09:40] <brunch875> it would be what I'd do myself
[09:40] <lotuspsychje> not sure...
[09:44] <lotuspsychje> brunch875: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_for_mobile_devices
[09:45] <ducasse> lotuspsychje: "run on all devices" is an impossibly wide criteria, unfortunately. there's a zillion android devices with different hw in them, many need proprietary modules.
[09:46] <lotuspsychje> i know ducasse its my silent dream :p but im pretty sure new things will come to us soon
[09:47] <lotuspsychje> escpecially when you shutdown thriven users...they will come forward even more
[10:01] <lotuspsychje> bbl :p
[10:31] <trijntje_> How are people feeling about the recent announcments about unity8 and MIR?
[11:50] <ducasse> mir going away is probably for the best, imo
[12:11] <BluesKaj> Howdy folks
[12:12] <ducasse> \o BluesKaj
[12:13] <BluesKaj> Hi ducasse
[12:14] <lordievader> Hey BluesKaj
[12:15] <BluesKaj> Hi lordievader
[12:15] <lordievader> How are you doing?
[12:16] <BluesKaj> fine thanks, had a good sleep in this morning, and you?
[12:20] <ducasse> that sounds very nice indeed :)
[12:23] <BluesKaj> ducasse, every now and then we all need to sleep later than normal
[12:25] <ducasse> absolutely :)
[12:27] <lordievader> BluesKaj: Doing good. Could have slept better though.
[13:00] <lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
[13:04] <BluesKaj> Hey lotuspsychje
[13:04] <lotuspsychje> hey there BluesKaj
[13:08] <lotuspsychje> http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Mark-Shuttleworth-CEO-Return
[13:10] <lotuspsychje> http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Mir-Wayland-Dream
[13:15] <ducasse> \o lotuspsychje
[13:15] <lotuspsychje> wb ducasse
[13:16] <lotuspsychje> movie pause :p
[13:23] <lotuspsychje> hey acheron-a
[13:24] <acheron-a> hello lotuspsychje
[13:39] <ducasse> man, some days i'm just so happy to be using linux - it sometimes amazes me how configurable things really are :)
[13:39] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: what are you thinking about?
[13:41] <ducasse> it just annoyed me that in bash C-k only kills to the end of the line and C-u only to the beginning, but it was easy to remap C-k to kill the whole line no matter the position through readline
[14:04] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: fantastic how linux communicates with a machine
[14:05] <lotuspsychje> with the help of the user :p
[14:06] <ducasse> admittedly that's just a small thing, but it's just nice that you can change every little thing to suit your needs
[14:09] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[14:11] <ducasse> the downside is of course that you can get stuck for hours fiddling with every little detail ;)
[14:12] <lotuspsychje> lol
[14:14] <acheron-a> and then learning how to back that up ;)
[14:14] <acheron-a> dconf, gsettings, etc.
[14:15] <lotuspsychje> and how to not forgetting them in the future
[14:16] <lotuspsychje> !info spark
[14:16] <ducasse> acheron-a: i try to avoid things that do not use plain text config files, so not a problem for me :)
[14:17] <acheron-a> yes, i keep detailed notes on setups and have developed some nice scripts to run, i am going to another computer to run it
[14:18] <acheron-a> bbiab
[14:18] <lotuspsychje> happy easter: https://hastebin.com/ujojihuwum.bash
[14:20] <ducasse> cute :)
[14:20] <lotuspsychje> :p
[14:21] <lotuspsychje> afternoon xangua
[14:22] <xangua> Morning 🙃
[14:24] <lotuspsychje> http://www.deviantart.com/art/Nix-Box-Manjaro-385034794
[14:25] <nicomachus> lotuspsychje: is that yours??
[14:25] <ducasse> i3-gaps, it looks like
[14:26] <nicomachus> or awesomewm
[14:26] <lotuspsychje> no nicomachus just an i3 i found i find nice
[14:26] <nicomachus> but probably i3-gaps. I just don't know if i3 can do the big gaps around the outside.
[14:26] <lotuspsychje> with a cat for ducasse :p
[14:26] <nicomachus> I hate that clock.
[14:26] <ducasse> awesome has gaps?
[14:26] <nicomachus> oh: stuff: urxvt w. tmux (credit to eternalkernel's blog), weechat, feh, i3, i3-bar, conky piped with colors through JSON, conky topbar (my own), ncmpcpp, ranger...
[14:27] <nicomachus> ducasse: it can, IIRC
[14:27] <nicomachus> but it's i3
[14:27] <nicomachus> deosn't even say i3-gaps.... odd. I guess you can just add the gaps in the config manually
[14:27] <ducasse> i3 by itself can't do gaps, you need the -gaps fork.
[14:27] <stevessss> so.. gnome is the future?
[14:27] <stevessss> .... I was using windowmaker myself on all my ubuntu boxes
[14:27] <lotuspsychje> stevessss: on 18.04 it will
[14:28] <stevessss> and wayland or Xorg at users choice
[14:28] <lotuspsychje> http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Mir-Wayland-Dream
[14:28] <stevessss> will wayland support network transpearancy so I can run gimp on a remote machine with more memory?
[14:28] <stevessss> (over gig ethernet probably just like Xorg remote requires)
[14:29] <stevessss> also will they make Xming and Xquartz for wayland on non-linux to display remote apps?
[14:29] <nicomachus> stevessss: the future is as you make
[14:29] <nicomachus> it
[14:29] <stevessss> will $DISPLAY still exist on wayland?
[14:30] <ducasse> the wayland protocol is not network transparent, no.
[14:30] <stevessss> can wayland be made network transparent?
[14:30] <lotuspsychje> welcome Menzador
[14:30] <Menzador> lotuspsychje: lol, hi
[14:30] <ducasse> not directly, it will need to be done on top.
[14:31] <ducasse> stevessss: so vnc, rdp etc.
[14:31] <stevessss> my feelign is that if wayland becomes default on most linux distros, then Xorg is goign to get phased out and eventually cease development(in 5-10 years)
[14:31] <stevessss> vnc, rdp etc only support sharing an entire desktop
[14:31] <stevessss> not a single window
[14:32] <stevessss> rdesktop supports showing only 1 window at a time while copying entire desktop over network, making a fake appearance of sharing a single window
[14:32] <Menzador> There is a maintenance release due for Xorg, but who knows when it will come.
[14:32] <lotuspsychje> stevessss: http://news.softpedia.com/news/red-hat-and-fedora-teams-welcome-ubuntu-to-gnome-and-wayland-with-open-arms-514661.shtml
[14:32] <Menzador> Hehe, I was just looking at that article.
[14:33] <ducasse> stevessss: the protocol does not support it and it won't be easy due to how things work in wayland aiui.
[14:33] <stevessss> remember the mir desktop?
[14:35] <nicomachus> no
[14:35] <nicomachus> because it was never given a stable release. becaues it was so awful.
[14:36] <Menzador> Wayland, however... There are really only a few desktops or WMs that run it by default yet.
[14:46] <lotuspsychje> wb brunch875
[14:52] <lotuspsychje> afternoon baizon
[14:52] <baizon> hi lotuspsychje
[14:52] <lotuspsychje> next week we will know 18.04 codename?
[14:53] <nacc> lotuspsychje: uh ... no?
[14:53] <nacc> lotuspsychje: next week we will probably know 17.10 codename
[14:54] <lotuspsychje> nacc: but when will 18.04 start to deploy
[14:54] <nacc> lotuspsychje: in october?
[14:54] <lotuspsychje> kk
[14:54] <nacc> lotuspsychje: 6 month development cycles, like always
[14:55] <nacc> lotuspsychje: also codenames are sort of irrelevant, only the numerical ones are guaranteed to sort and should really be used in anything important :)
[14:55] <lotuspsychje> right
[14:55] <brunch875> hello peeps
[14:57] <lotuspsychje> nacc: so before october nothing will happen in #ubuntu+1 ?
[14:57] <nacc> lotuspsychje: uh, no
[14:57] <nacc> lotuspsychje: before october, it will be for 17.10
[14:57] <lotuspsychje> nor in #ubuntu-release?
[14:58] <nacc> lotuspsychje: do you forget there is 2 releases a year?
[14:59] <lotuspsychje> indeed
[15:00] <nacc> lotuspsychje: ok :)
[15:01] <lotuspsychje> those non-lts alway confuse me
[15:01] <nacc> well, 17.04 is not an lts either
[15:01] <nacc> nor is 16.10
[15:01] <lotuspsychje> yeah that i know
[15:02] <lotuspsychje> why didnt they plan gnome for 17.10 then?
[15:02] <nicomachus> nacc: but everyone wants to know what happens after ZZ!
[15:03] <lotuspsychje> acrobatic aligator lol
[15:04] <brunch875> that's the best one I've heard so far
[15:04] <lotuspsychje> brunch875: showed up on an article
[15:04] <lotuspsychje> a presume that is...
[15:05] <nacc> nicomachus: right, which is 17.10
[15:05] <nacc> lotuspsychje was asking about 18.04
[15:06] <nacc> lotuspsychje: i don't think it's been said that they won't
[15:06] <nacc> lotuspsychje: just that by 18.04 it will be done
[15:06] <lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/ubuntu-17-10-acrobatic-aardvark
[15:06] <lotuspsychje> aardvark it was
[15:06] <brunch875> acrobatic aligator is much better
[15:14] <nacc> how about
[15:14] <nacc> aaaaaah monsters
[15:14] <lotuspsychje> lol
[15:14] <nacc> anyone remember that show?
[15:14] <nicomachus> aaaaaah REAL monsters!
[15:14] <nicomachus> we have a graffiti mural here in town of one of them
[15:15] <nacc> yeah, i figured i couldn't make the codename 3 words :)
[15:15] <nacc> and "aaaaah real" doesn't have the same ring
[15:16] <nicomachus> https://www.google.com/maps/@39.09171,-94.5821218,3a,75y,340.99h,85.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sF1Siu9BP17LLRMhxmf0GOQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
[15:17] <nicomachus> at least it looks like one of those monsters
[15:17] <lotuspsychje> http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Sam-Redux-On-Unity-Compiz
[15:17] <nacc> ha it totally does nicomachus
[15:19] <nicomachus> it looks a bit different now, but not much
[15:41] <lotuspsychje> hi Oscboll
[15:50] <lotuspsychje> https://tutorials.ubuntu.com/tutorial/snap-a-website#0
[15:54] <arunpyasi> Is Ubuntu really killing UNITY ?
[15:54] <lotuspsychje> arunpyasi: there are plans for 18.04 to have gnome as default
[15:54] <arunpyasi> lotuspsychje, so, its not confirmed ?
[15:55] <nacc> arunpyasi: unity won't be the default
[15:55] <arunpyasi> lotuspsychje, is UBUNTU/Canonical gonna maintain Unity further ?
[15:55] <lotuspsychje> arunpyasi: yes its confirmed unity and ubuntu phones will stop
[15:55] <nacc> unity8 already has a public website
[15:55] <DArqueBishop> "Killed" is a drastic word for it.
[15:55] <arunpyasi> nacc, why was that deason made ?
[15:55] <nacc> arunpyasi: because convergence was for phone and phone is gone
[15:56] <arunpyasi> nacc, hmm.. with Phone Unity also gone ?
[15:56] <nacc> arunpyasi: unity is not gone
[15:56] <nacc> arunpyasi: please read what we have said
[15:56] <lotuspsychje> arunpyasi: ubports will continue the phone project
[15:56] <arunpyasi> nacc, ok..
[15:56] <nacc> arunpyasi: unity is a community project
[15:56] <nacc> arunpyasi: canonical will stop pushing unity as the future (unity8) and mir
[15:56] <nacc> arunpyasi: but that doesn't mean they are dead
[15:56] <arunpyasi> nacc, ohh ok
[15:57] <arunpyasi> nacc, so, Unity will still be maintained but not official used in Ubuntu by default ?
[15:57] <arunpyasi> Unity was never owned by Canonical ?
[15:59] <lotuspsychje> !unity | arunpyasi
[16:00] <nacc> arunpyasi: i'm not sure what you mean by 'owned' by canonical?
[16:00] <nacc> arunpyasi: and not sure what you mean by 'not official'
[16:04] <acheron-a> well thats the whole reason Cinnamon got so popular was Gnome
[16:04] <acheron-a> but its nice to have choices
[16:05] <lotuspsychje> acheron-a: yeah flavors make it all interesting
[16:05] <nicomachus> acheron-a: this is linux. You always have a choice. Want to keep using Unity? go ahead. There's already like 50 forks competing for it.
[16:05] <acheron-a> i'm running Cinnamon 3.2.8 on Ubuntu
[16:05] <nicomachus> gross
[16:05] <lotuspsychje> acheron-a: does that run smooth?
[16:05] <tgm4883> nacc: I installed ubuntu gnome 17.04 last night and the touchscreen stuff works pretty well. That on screen keyboard though is kinda bad
[16:05] <acheron-a> yes
[16:05]  * nicomachus hates cinnamon :/
[16:05] <nacc> tgm4883: yeah, i have no idea how the OSK is supposed to work :(
[16:05] <nacc> tgm4883: it basically feels like it doesn't
[16:06] <acheron-a> i do not care for Mint's implementation of it
[16:06] <nacc> tgm4883: and with u-g, it seems really sensitve to context when it shows up
[16:06] <nacc> acheron-a: so cinnamon from upstream?
[16:06] <tgm4883> nacc: it works fine for me except when I accidently touch a keyboard key it disappears, and also it's pretty difficult to thumb type with it
[16:06] <tgm4883> I wonder if there's different designs for it
[16:07] <nacc> tgm4883: i did a quick apt search the other day and there are a bunch of packages taht provide it
[16:07] <nacc> but i don't know how you configure which to use
[16:07] <tgm4883> nacc: I'll poke around and see what I can find
[16:08] <nacc> tgm4883: thanks, i'll be curious what you are able to achieve!
[16:10] <acheron-a> http://www.tecmint.com/install-cinnamon-desktop-in-ubuntu-fedora-workstations/
[16:10] <acheron-a> thats how i did it
[16:10] <lotuspsychje> lets c
[16:11] <acheron-a> so far, so good, i am testing it on 2 computers, AMD and Intel
[16:12] <lotuspsychje> acheron-a: looks rather nice, but ill stick to non-ppa stuff
[16:12] <acheron-a> i understand, thats the only PPA i have
[16:12] <lotuspsychje> no sweat, everyone does what he likes :p
[16:13] <acheron-a> maybe in the future ubuntu will officially have it in their reps
[16:13] <lotuspsychje> alot will happen next, thats for sure
[16:13] <acheron-a> they have 2.8 but it does not run well
[16:14] <acheron-a> cinnamon-core/xenial,xenial 2.8.0
[16:15] <acheron-a> cinnamon-desktop-environment/xenial,xenial 2.8.0
[16:15] <acheron-a> thats available without a PPA
[16:15] <ducasse> 3.2 in zesty
[16:15] <lotuspsychje> nice
[16:15] <acheron-a> apt list cinn*
[16:18] <nacc> looks to be 2.8.6-1ubuntu1 in xenial
[16:49] <baizon> omg
[16:49] <baizon> https://plus.google.com/+MarkShuttleworthCanonical/posts/7LYubpaHUHH
[16:49] <nacc> baizon:  why is that omg?
[16:49] <daftykins> you're a bit late to that party :>
[16:50] <baizon> im sorry
[16:50] <baizon> was at work
[16:50] <baizon> omg is for -> no unity, just gnome :(
[16:50] <baizon> i hate gnome
[16:50] <nacc> yeah that's a few days old
[16:50] <nacc> well, aiui, unity7 was gnome
[16:50] <nacc> so you mean unity8, which was never released
[16:50] <daftykins> yep just skinned
[16:52] <acheron-a> yeah
[16:53] <acheron-a> it was a shocker for sure, thought first it was an april fools joke
[16:53] <daftykins> not since it was days into the month
[16:54] <acheron-a> always have to pick we me, dont you dafty?
[16:54] <daftykins> what?
[16:55] <daftykins> i'm not picking on you, i think you're being a bit sensitive.
[16:56] <acheron-a> lol .. talk about being sensitive
[16:56] <acheron-a> you're the one that went all the pieces when i mentioned mint support
[16:56] <acheron-a> are you some kind of fairy?
[16:57] <acheron-a> * ignore *
[16:57] <daftykins> what's your problem today, trouble at home?
[16:57] <daftykins> 3+ people saw you as being ridiculous the other day :) you're being very transparent having a moan at me :)
[17:01] <tgm4883> Can't we all just get along
[17:01] <daftykins> well everyone, i best change distro if a Fairy isn't welcome :(
[17:02] <acheron-a> i;m fine .. that guy was on me ever since i came in this chat room
[17:02] <daftykins> total rubbish
[17:02] <nicomachus> +1
[17:02] <acheron-a> first day he made an issue with me because i commented about some mint issues and he made like i was referring to him personally
[17:02] <ducasse> log or it didn't happen.
[17:02] <nicomachus> just drop it
[17:03] <acheron-a> so i will just leave him on ignore
[17:04] <tgm4883> acheron-a: which day was this?
[17:05] <acheron-a> a couple of weeks ago, the first day i joined in here
[17:06] <nicomachus> !logs
[17:11] <tgm4883> nicomachus: searching that site sucks though
[17:12] <acheron-a> No one here really knows anything about me, so let me give some background … I have worked on computers since the days of CP/M and S-100 Buss.  At my last job at Hewlett Packard Enterprise, one the many things I did was software load and documentation for HP-UX on the HP-9000 Superdome platform.  So I think I know my way around the world of computing.  I don’t need any descending behavior from some nab
[17:12] <acheron-a> obs in a chat room.
[17:13] <nacc> lol
[17:13] <nacc> acheron-a: i know basically nothing about anyone in this room
[17:13] <nacc> acheron-a: and your history doesn't matter
[17:13] <daftykins> unfortunately my conversations challenging distribution choice are often taken too personally by some more sensitive users.
[17:13] <nicomachus> well, now that we know all that we can treat you with the respect you deserve!
[17:15] <nicomachus> daftykins: windows = winblows
[17:15] <daftykins> nicomachus: how dare you insult my good name, i'll have you know i have been working with computers since the abacus!
[17:19] <nicomachus> sudo apt install baseball
[17:31] <acheron-a> does anyone still remember that demo of USB that Bill Gates was giving and the system blue screened on him ... LOL
[17:32] <tgm4883> acheron-a: Not saying this is you, but more often than not when I see people reference that sort of history it tends to mean they are trying to use it as an excuse as to why they are being difficult and/or ignoring instructions (mostly see this in the support channel). Anyone that's been around computers that long should know that technology changes fast
[17:32] <tgm4883> enough that it's irrelevant to the discussion.
[17:34] <acheron-a> oh, wow, thanks tgm4883 , so much for getting along
[17:34] <tgm4883> acheron-a: ...
[17:35] <nacc> acheron-a: "Not saying this is you..."
[17:35] <nacc> acheron-a: tgm4883 prefaced it with that
[17:35] <daftykins> too sensitive for IRC.
[17:35] <nicomachus> sudo apt install baseball-on-tv
[17:36] <nacc> nicomachus: :)
[17:36] <nacc> nicomachus: is it working
[17:36] <nicomachus> no
[17:36] <nacc> darn
[17:36] <nicomachus> package not found. would you like to install NASCAR-practice instead?
[17:37] <nacc> lol
[17:37] <nacc> nooooo (not a fan of nascar myself)
[17:37] <nicomachus> me neither. but that's what is on FoxSportsGO
[17:37] <nacc> sad
[17:38] <nicomachus> it's friday... there aren't usually many day baseball games on Fridays
[17:38] <nacc> was able to go to the blazers game last night, was the best one i've been to in a while
[17:38] <nicomachus> they do friday night so that more people will show up at the ballpark
[17:38] <nacc> yep
[17:38] <nacc> (blazers being trailblazers being nba, for context)
[17:39] <nicomachus> right. :D
[17:39]  * nicomachus is not a basketball fan
[17:39] <nacc> ah :(
[17:39] <nicomachus> sorry
[17:39] <nacc> nicomachus: baseball mostly?
[17:39] <nicomachus> yep
[17:39] <daftykins> MLB ftw
[17:39] <nicomachus> a bit of hockey. but all baseball
[17:39] <nicomachus> ok, off to lunch and get some things notarized.
[17:40] <acheron-a> take care
[17:40] <daftykins> aww tonights isa really late one for me
[17:40] <daftykins> *is a
[17:40] <daftykins> (Royals)
[18:12] <acheron-a> hello glebihan
[18:36] <tgm4883> well that was a fun read
[18:52] <Bashing-om> tgm4883: ^ Fun read for me also ?
[18:53] <tgm4883> Bashing-om: nah, I just grepped IRC logs looking for daftykins cruelty
[18:53] <daftykins> tgm4883: was i bad Fairy after all?
[18:53] <tgm4883> I actually didn't find any, which was surprising ;)
[18:53] <daftykins> d'aww
[18:54] <daftykins> well i appreciate your honesty
[18:54] <tgm4883> I'm checking Feb though now, so maybe I'll see some
[18:54] <daftykins> this isn't the first time someone has taken things the wrong way though :/
[18:54] <daftykins> what's special about me and February? :)
[18:54] <tgm4883> daftykins: nothing. I just checked April and March
[18:54] <tgm4883> working backwards
[18:55] <tgm4883> ubottu doesn't log joins/parts so I've got to read convos
[18:55] <tgm4883> the only thing I've found was a misunderstanding on Mint, which was cleared up within a few minutes
[18:55] <tgm4883> Oh the things I do when Jira's down and I'm waiting for things to compress
[18:57] <daftykins> :)
[18:57] <daftykins> i do bash Mint a lot, 'cause there's no good reason for it to exist :)
[18:58] <nicomachus> that's true tho
[19:02] <tgm4883> nothing in feb
[19:02] <tgm4883> note I'm specifically looking for interaction with a particular user, not because I have some weird thing for daftykins  :)
[19:08] <daftykins> tbh we all know how i earnt a certain ban, but this time it's definitely the user imagining it
[19:16] <nicomachus> BAN DAFTYKINS
[19:16] <nicomachus> FROM ALLLLL THE NETWORKS
[19:21] <daftykins> :>
[19:45] <Guest123> What's going to happen to Ubuntu Touch?
[19:45] <baizon> its dead
[19:47] <Guest123> It looks really cool.
[19:47] <Guest123> Linux on your phone.
[19:48] <daftykins> that's not a new thing
[19:57] <DArqueBishop> Technically, if you have Android, you already have Linux on your phone.
[20:01] <tgm4883> I'm not sure why people want to use their phone's as a desktop. Any time it's tried to use a Pi as a desktop the experience was pretty bad
[20:02] <tgm4883> Now a tablet that can double as a laptop/desktop, that's something I can get behind (x86 tablet's that is)
[20:17] <daftykins> tgm4883: yeah i think it's one of those gimmicky things that sounds fun but in practice would be pretty terrible
[20:23] <nicomachus> I can SSH into a real computer from my phone. that's enough.
[20:24] <tgm4883> nicomachus: in a pinch it will work. But to do regular work from it would be a pain I think
[20:25] <tgm4883> I'm speaking to the "I want to use my phone as a desktop replacement"
[20:25] <nicomachus> that's just a bad idea.
[20:25] <nicomachus> it's a phone.
[20:25] <tgm4883> well yea, I agree
[20:54] <tgm4883> nacc: the answer is to install gnome-shell-extension-onboard, enable it in tweak, reboot (probably just logout and in)
[20:54] <tgm4883> nacc: it's got the ability to customize your layout, so I'm figuring that part out now
[21:27] <nacc> tgm4883: ah good thanks!
[22:41] <stevessss> so.. ubuntus move to gnome will reduce the linux schism
[22:41] <stevessss> to just kde vs gnome
[22:42] <nacc> stevessss: that's certainly an opinion to have
[22:43] <stevessss> making kde and gtk kits for mobile /android/ios might be a winning solution
[22:43] <stevessss> 1 app runs on devices, windows, linux, osx, ios, android etc
[22:43] <stevessss> and runs natively
[22:43] <nacc> uh
[22:43] <stevessss> the end-user doesnt want to reduce their desktop to looklike a phone
[22:43] <nacc> i don't think the ui is the reason apps don't run eveyrwhere
[22:44] <stevessss> no.. but there is a port of qt to almost every platform
[22:44] <nacc> if you mean it would look the same everywhere, then sure, that's something
[22:44] <nacc> but you won't magically see the same app on windows an dlinux
[22:44] <stevessss> the write package manager could make an easy-button for mostely gtk apps to run everywhere
[22:44] <stevessss> no.. you have to compile for each platform
[22:44] <stevessss> but automation can make that easier to the dev
[22:44] <nacc> which makes it immediately not the same app
[22:45] <nacc> in any case, yes, what you are saying is possible
[22:45] <stevessss> apache-cordova does that
[22:45] <acheron-a> well the market for phone OS is already occupied ;)
[22:45] <stevessss> you add platforms and it has different build commands for each platform to embed a browser for each target
[22:45] <stevessss> yeah
[22:45] <stevessss> you cant sell phone-os to end users
[22:45] <acheron-a> you'd have to have something awfully compelling to break in
[22:45] <stevessss> if linux makes app development easier to go to more platforms, maybe that is an option
[22:46] <tgm4883> Can we stop trying to put desktop apps on phones?
[22:46] <nacc> or that --^
[22:46] <nacc> then again, i hate smartphones on some level to begin with
[22:46] <stevessss> gtk+opengl or qt+opengl can run games at native speed on any platform
[22:46] <acheron-a> phones are throw away devices and status symbols for others and then the middle of the market
[22:46] <tgm4883> "games at native speed"
[22:46] <acheron-a> and the middle just doesn't care how they browse the web
[22:46] <stevessss> or vr, or augmented reality
[22:47]  * tgm4883 gets ready to run xcom 2 on his nexus 6P
[22:47] <stevessss> I can see gtk becomming an api or widget kit on most devices without replacing the device os
[22:47] <stevessss> and support open-source on smartphones
[22:47] <OerHeks> vr is as boring as 3d tv
[22:48] <tgm4883> OerHeks: have you used VR?
[22:48] <tgm4883> I think it's interesting, but the costs need to come way down
[22:48] <stevessss> phones should use phone ui...for small screens..and desktops should use desktop ui for big screens
[22:48] <daftykins> and the resolution needs to go up :>
[22:48] <OerHeks> i cannot watch such things longer than 1 hour or so
[22:48] <stevessss> they arent and shouldn't be the same
[22:49]  * tgm4883 is waiting for the HTC Vive 3
[22:49] <acheron-a> stevessss, exactly but some decision makers still have yet learn or come to that conclusion
[22:50] <tgm4883> stevessss: that's precisely what Unity 8 was trying to accomplish
[22:50] <tgm4883> IIRC, I think it's a design spec of android
[23:12] <acheron-a> even MS couldn't get it to work but i always that maybe an OS that has multiple personalities might work, one that would have a common core and multiple GUIs depending on what device it was on
[23:14] <acheron-a> instead of one size fits all, it would sense what device it was on and deploy accordingly or allow the user to override
[23:16] <tgm4883> acheron-a: it's up to the app developer to make it work, not the OS creator
[23:16] <tgm4883> acheron-a: something about leading horses to water and making them drink
[23:17] <tgm4883> acheron-a: also, that second thing you said is precisely what Windows 10 does (and was a goal of Unity 8)
[23:58] <Guest123> Is there a channel to make suggestions for Ubuntu?
[23:59] <OerHeks> launchpad would be the proper way, i guess