[00:43] good news, Unity8: https://plus.google.com/110699558853693437587/posts/gUB2xRn2Dyu [00:44] yay, next to https://github.com/unity8org/unity8org now also https://unity.ubports.com/ [00:45] people need choise [00:45] be smart, register unity9 now! [00:46] Fork? New Ubuntu flavor? [00:47] OerHeks: hah, it's taken at least the .com one, .org still free [00:47] smells like it [01:03] Baaacckkk . refreshed to the point I can carry on :) [01:04] \o/ [01:06] Here I go again, see what happens :P [01:12] hello Bashing-om [01:20] acheron-a: Hey hey .. what it be ?? [01:20] its all good [01:21] i best sleep, g'night folks [01:21] g'nite [01:22] Just heard on TV that our president has ordered retalitory strike on Syria .. wow ! [01:23] nite daftykins Sleep well my friend . [02:14] Bashing-om, i read the Russians knew, so it is oke... maybe [02:15] now is certainly a turningpoint. [02:22] OerHeks: Yeah .. just wonder what prompts the US escalation of the military presence in Syria . A change from the Obamma administration's position . [02:23] i focus on NKorea too.. [02:28] OerHeks: There is that fact too - A stiff warning that Trump will take no flack ( as he formerly did warn) . [02:30] now he striked, on behalve of the children, why does USA not ratify the UN childrens rights? [02:30] pom-ie-pom [02:33] OerHeks: Uh HUh .. there is that .. children should be raised not exploited - we live in a total world environment . Our children are are what will be . [02:37] and the real war is in a totally different place, 5600 miles east .. = Fukushima Daiichi [02:41] World politics .. jockying for control of resources . Greedy men ! [02:44] one needs to learn 20 years before being productive for 20 years. then the warrenty is over :-D [02:48] OerHeks: Truth ! I often look back at that 20 year old - 40 years later .. the things I would do different ! [03:59] Is there a lighter Gnome theme [05:02] good morning to all [05:03] Hi all! [05:03] lotuspsychje: \o - shift change time :) [05:03] hey alkisg & Bashing-om [05:04] what you guys think of the unity vanish? [05:04] Greatest news ever! [05:04] lol [05:04] you like gnome alkisg ? [05:04] Now if only MATE switched to supporting gnome-flashback instead :D [05:05] My requirement is simple: I need something that runs on pentium 4's [05:05] That essentially means 1 GB RAM and no 3D [05:05] So... we've been using gnome-flashback, and switched to mate for 16.04 [05:05] lotuspsychje: I never was a big fan of unity - though I can use it . I like KISS . [05:06] so what about the ubuntu touch phones? [05:06] Having a lot of DEs means we waste a whole lot of time just making sure our apps run everywhere, instead of adding new features etc. I don't like that part of the linux ecosystem. [05:07] I don't think canonical is big enough to hope to have a market share in phones... [05:07] alkisg: but canonical started unity, then mark said to leave the user the choice on unity7 or 8, now they purge it? [05:08] They start a lot of things trying to make money, and abandon them if they don't make money [05:08] That's how companies work [05:08] right, i understand that [05:08] still, theirs a whole community to disagree now [05:09] The problem is that users, applications developers, sysadmins etc have to switch apps, init systems etc all the time [05:09] Nah I'm fine with upstart, bzr, unity, software-center etc all dying :D [05:09] Application development isn't what canonical does best [05:09] well im surely curious on 18.04 now [05:10] That'll mostly be ubuntu-gnome, right? [05:10] alkisg: you think it will be vanilla or tuned? [05:10] I really hope it'll be debian with just an ubuntu font and theme, but I doubt they'll make me happy :( [05:11] heh [05:11] My dream is for debian to fix their feature freeze dates at the same time as ubuntu, so that most apps will be exactly the same [05:11] sounds good idea [05:11] And then LTS releases .1 to .5 will be just syncs from debian [05:12] Didn't canonical suggested that too Debian and they say no? [05:12] lotuspsychje: I been watching on #ubuntu-release, and the talk is to remove upstart in 17.04 . will be interesting to see the difference vetween an upgraded 17.04 and a fresh install, if that happens . [05:13] Bashing-om: is that the channel where new packages spam? [05:15] xangua: dunno, but if so, I'd like to read the reasoning behind their refusal [05:15] Debian could still "release when it's ready"; I was only talking about the freeze date. Where's the harm in having a predictable freeze? [05:17] alkisg: can you find something here? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubuntu/ForDebianDevelopers [05:17] alkisg: because when it's ready? [05:18] Well it was more like canonical suggested Debian to release a new version every two years... So they could sync it with the LTS [05:19] That won't work [05:19] Because they have specific methodology about RC bugs etc [05:19] But I haven't heard of anything opposing to fixed freeze dates [05:20] With specific freeze dates, it would be ubuntu helping debian with rc bugs squashing, ie the opposite [05:20] http://news.softpedia.com/news/unity-8-now-has-a-new-home-over-at-ubports-development-will-start-very-soon-514663.shtml [05:21] http://news.softpedia.com/news/red-hat-and-fedora-teams-welcome-ubuntu-to-gnome-and-wayland-with-open-arms-514661.shtml [05:23] "...and hopefully Flatpak," ==> yeah that too; snappy is just another 5 years of wasted development power [05:25] me eyes are crossing . time to back out of here . G nite o/ [05:30] morning kostkon [05:35] Hey, good morning [06:18] moring all [06:20] Good morning [06:21] \o [06:22] Hey ducasse, how are you? [06:22] ok thanks, and you? gotten your coffee yet? [06:24] Indeed. [06:25] hey ducasse & lordievader [06:26] morning lotus, how are you? [06:26] great here [06:26] day off movie day here [06:27] nice, what are you going to watch? [06:27] ducasse: belgian movie the premier [06:27] ducasse: and fifty shades darker [06:28] Hey lotuspsychje [06:28] Ha, Fifty Shades [06:28] Enjoy :P [06:29] i'm guessing you were not the one who chose fifty shades... ;) [06:29] not sure it will be good [06:30] it very likely won't :) [06:30] ducasse: we both liked the first one [06:30] and my gf read the books [06:31] any other movies you guys reccomend? [06:31] well, hope you enjoy noth films :) [06:31] i'm waiting for the new alien movie [06:31] is there? [06:32] in may, i think [06:32] cool [06:32] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2316204/?ref_=nv_sr_1 [06:34] trailer looking good ducasse [06:34] aiui, this one and one more was always planned. in the last one the aliens will arrive at earth >:-) [06:34] i hope they make that one as well :) [06:36] The new Alien looks very good :) [06:36] I'm also waiting for the remake of IT. [06:36] Trailer was pretty good. [06:45] the alien monster is my personal favorite movie monster, i can't wait for this one. 'it' i'm not sure about, but i'll probably still see it. i expect it won't be as long as the original? [06:47] Hope not [06:47] I still find the way the Alien was filmed in the first movie quite well done. You never see the creature full in frame. [06:48] Things really went downhill with alien 3... [06:49] i still have nightmares of playing doom3 [06:49] aliens jumping out the ceiling [06:52] the first is a classic, two is ok and then... three is better than four, though, so if they keep to the formula the new one will be atrocious ;) [06:53] Nah, I'm hoping for one as good as the first ;) [06:54] Oeh, I'm also waiting for the sequel to Blade Runner :) [06:54] me too, but _very_ nervous about it. [06:55] also, the dark tower is expected this year, right? they _can't_ screw that up, but i'm afraid they already have. [06:56] Dark Tower? [06:56] * lordievader heads to Google. [06:57] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1648190/?ref_=nv_sr_1 [06:58] based on the book series by stephen king, which i _love_. [06:59] Looks interesting [07:00] i'm a big fan of the book series, but making a single movie out of them is hopeless. [07:01] That is usually the case ;) [07:03] bbl breakfast [07:04] there were originally seven books, each about 500 pages, written over thirty years or so. hard to squeeze that into two hours. i've read a little about it, which seemed to indicate they were going to focus on parts of the books i didn't even like, so i'm concerned :) [07:04] Eet ze [07:04] tnx lordievader [07:04] enjoy [07:04] tnx [08:49] !info gnome-games-app [08:50] Package gnome-games-app does not exist in xenial [08:51] * lotuspsychje is idling in #ubuntu-release [09:18] !info retro-gtk zesty [09:19] Package retro-gtk does not exist in zesty [09:22] morning brunch875 [09:22] hayo lotuspsychje [09:26] I see a lot of people panicking at the end of the mir-project [09:26] brunch875: where? [09:26] abandoning ship out of the blue as if ubuntu itself is going down [09:26] drama queens! [09:26] lol [09:26] I hope I'm not doing the same with the phone [09:27] i want ubuntu-touch to continue also [09:27] i hope the team finds a way to install on every mobile [09:27] Indeed... but I have to admit I have mixed feelings about it [09:29] brunch875: i think the devs did a great job already with so many devices [09:29] made a big impact in my opinion [09:30] lotuspsychje: I couldn't agree more, ubuntu touch is magnificent [09:30] I was really excited to see convergence happening [09:30] but I'm not sure how much power the guys at UB will pull [09:31] brunch875: well from the start, i really hoped i could have a tablet/phone with a terminal to work with, just as the desktop [09:31] my phone saved my ass when my laptop died [09:32] too bad they locked that from the start [09:32] the raspberry pi didn't have nearly enough power [09:33] I wonder if easing a bit on confinement would've made the project more viable now [09:33] brunch875: i also think so... [09:33] it's just the whole app lifecycle and confinement... [09:33] thats what i said in ubuntu-touch yesterday [09:33] I wonder if they decided to shut it down because confinement was really getting in the way of the desktop [09:33] you can invent something, then take it away..the spirit will continue [09:34] cant [09:34] its a matter of time some brand will choose linux on mobile [09:35] hard to tell [09:35] android is linux after all [09:35] i hear the new samsung s8 got convergence now? [09:36] the world is ready for all new ideas & brainstorm [09:36] pff nah... whenever they pull out "convergence" it's just a wannabe layer [09:36] ubuntu was the closest to convergence [09:36] indeed [09:36] i think we aint seen nothing yet [09:37] I would personally scavenge the whole unity8 interfaces [09:37] get rid of all confinement [09:37] and have vanilla ubuntu run on the phone [09:38] that would be so nice [09:38] surely it won't be as secure to have applications peer on each other [09:38] but that's what the desktop has anyway [09:38] then give the option to install applications with snappy and be done with it [09:39] unfortunately there's still the whole situation with the linux kernel + drivers [09:39] yeah [09:40] I guess that's what sailfish is doing, right? [09:40] I wonder if the guys at UBports will follow this route [09:40] it would be what I'd do myself [09:40] not sure... [09:44] brunch875: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_for_mobile_devices [09:45] lotuspsychje: "run on all devices" is an impossibly wide criteria, unfortunately. there's a zillion android devices with different hw in them, many need proprietary modules. [09:46] i know ducasse its my silent dream :p but im pretty sure new things will come to us soon [09:47] escpecially when you shutdown thriven users...they will come forward even more [10:01] bbl :p [10:31] How are people feeling about the recent announcments about unity8 and MIR? [11:50] mir going away is probably for the best, imo [12:11] Howdy folks [12:12] \o BluesKaj [12:13] Hi ducasse [12:14] Hey BluesKaj [12:15] Hi lordievader [12:15] How are you doing? [12:16] fine thanks, had a good sleep in this morning, and you? [12:20] that sounds very nice indeed :) [12:23] ducasse, every now and then we all need to sleep later than normal [12:25] absolutely :) [12:27] BluesKaj: Doing good. Could have slept better though. [13:00] good afternoon to all [13:04] Hey lotuspsychje [13:04] hey there BluesKaj [13:08] http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Mark-Shuttleworth-CEO-Return [13:10] http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Mir-Wayland-Dream [13:15] \o lotuspsychje [13:15] wb ducasse [13:16] movie pause :p [13:23] hey acheron-a [13:24] hello lotuspsychje [13:39] man, some days i'm just so happy to be using linux - it sometimes amazes me how configurable things really are :) [13:39] ducasse: what are you thinking about? [13:41] it just annoyed me that in bash C-k only kills to the end of the line and C-u only to the beginning, but it was easy to remap C-k to kill the whole line no matter the position through readline [14:04] ducasse: fantastic how linux communicates with a machine [14:05] with the help of the user :p [14:06] admittedly that's just a small thing, but it's just nice that you can change every little thing to suit your needs [14:09] yeah [14:11] the downside is of course that you can get stuck for hours fiddling with every little detail ;) [14:12] lol [14:14] and then learning how to back that up ;) [14:14] dconf, gsettings, etc. [14:15] and how to not forgetting them in the future [14:16] !info spark [14:16] spark (source: spark): SPARK programming language toolset. In component universe, is optional. Version 2012.0.deb-11 (xenial), package size 2023 kB, installed size 9314 kB [14:16] acheron-a: i try to avoid things that do not use plain text config files, so not a problem for me :) [14:17] yes, i keep detailed notes on setups and have developed some nice scripts to run, i am going to another computer to run it [14:18] bbiab [14:18] happy easter: https://hastebin.com/ujojihuwum.bash [14:20] cute :) [14:20] :p [14:21] afternoon xangua [14:22] Morning 🙃 [14:24] http://www.deviantart.com/art/Nix-Box-Manjaro-385034794 [14:25] lotuspsychje: is that yours?? [14:25] i3-gaps, it looks like [14:26] or awesomewm [14:26] no nicomachus just an i3 i found i find nice [14:26] but probably i3-gaps. I just don't know if i3 can do the big gaps around the outside. [14:26] with a cat for ducasse :p [14:26] I hate that clock. [14:26] awesome has gaps? [14:26] oh: stuff: urxvt w. tmux (credit to eternalkernel's blog), weechat, feh, i3, i3-bar, conky piped with colors through JSON, conky topbar (my own), ncmpcpp, ranger... [14:27] ducasse: it can, IIRC [14:27] but it's i3 [14:27] deosn't even say i3-gaps.... odd. I guess you can just add the gaps in the config manually [14:27] i3 by itself can't do gaps, you need the -gaps fork. [14:27] so.. gnome is the future? [14:27] .... I was using windowmaker myself on all my ubuntu boxes [14:27] stevessss: on 18.04 it will [14:28] and wayland or Xorg at users choice [14:28] http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Mir-Wayland-Dream [14:28] will wayland support network transpearancy so I can run gimp on a remote machine with more memory? [14:28] (over gig ethernet probably just like Xorg remote requires) [14:29] also will they make Xming and Xquartz for wayland on non-linux to display remote apps? [14:29] stevessss: the future is as you make [14:29] it [14:29] will $DISPLAY still exist on wayland? [14:30] the wayland protocol is not network transparent, no. [14:30] can wayland be made network transparent? [14:30] welcome Menzador [14:30] lotuspsychje: lol, hi [14:30] not directly, it will need to be done on top. [14:31] stevessss: so vnc, rdp etc. [14:31] my feelign is that if wayland becomes default on most linux distros, then Xorg is goign to get phased out and eventually cease development(in 5-10 years) [14:31] vnc, rdp etc only support sharing an entire desktop [14:31] not a single window [14:32] rdesktop supports showing only 1 window at a time while copying entire desktop over network, making a fake appearance of sharing a single window [14:32] There is a maintenance release due for Xorg, but who knows when it will come. [14:32] stevessss: http://news.softpedia.com/news/red-hat-and-fedora-teams-welcome-ubuntu-to-gnome-and-wayland-with-open-arms-514661.shtml [14:32] Hehe, I was just looking at that article. [14:33] stevessss: the protocol does not support it and it won't be easy due to how things work in wayland aiui. [14:33] remember the mir desktop? [14:35] no [14:35] because it was never given a stable release. becaues it was so awful. [14:36] Wayland, however... There are really only a few desktops or WMs that run it by default yet. [14:46] wb brunch875 [14:52] afternoon baizon [14:52] hi lotuspsychje [14:52] next week we will know 18.04 codename? [14:53] lotuspsychje: uh ... no? [14:53] lotuspsychje: next week we will probably know 17.10 codename [14:54] nacc: but when will 18.04 start to deploy [14:54] lotuspsychje: in october? [14:54] kk [14:54] lotuspsychje: 6 month development cycles, like always [14:55] lotuspsychje: also codenames are sort of irrelevant, only the numerical ones are guaranteed to sort and should really be used in anything important :) [14:55] right [14:55] hello peeps [14:57] nacc: so before october nothing will happen in #ubuntu+1 ? [14:57] lotuspsychje: uh, no [14:57] lotuspsychje: before october, it will be for 17.10 [14:57] nor in #ubuntu-release? [14:58] lotuspsychje: do you forget there is 2 releases a year? [14:59] indeed [15:00] lotuspsychje: ok :) [15:01] those non-lts alway confuse me [15:01] well, 17.04 is not an lts either [15:01] nor is 16.10 [15:01] yeah that i know [15:02] why didnt they plan gnome for 17.10 then? [15:02] nacc: but everyone wants to know what happens after ZZ! [15:03] acrobatic aligator lol [15:04] that's the best one I've heard so far [15:04] brunch875: showed up on an article [15:04] a presume that is... [15:05] nicomachus: right, which is 17.10 [15:05] lotuspsychje was asking about 18.04 [15:06] lotuspsychje: i don't think it's been said that they won't [15:06] lotuspsychje: just that by 18.04 it will be done [15:06] http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/ubuntu-17-10-acrobatic-aardvark [15:06] aardvark it was [15:06] acrobatic aligator is much better [15:14] how about [15:14] aaaaaah monsters [15:14] lol [15:14] anyone remember that show? [15:14] aaaaaah REAL monsters! [15:14] we have a graffiti mural here in town of one of them [15:15] yeah, i figured i couldn't make the codename 3 words :) [15:15] and "aaaaah real" doesn't have the same ring [15:16] https://www.google.com/maps/@39.09171,-94.5821218,3a,75y,340.99h,85.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sF1Siu9BP17LLRMhxmf0GOQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 [15:17] at least it looks like one of those monsters [15:17] http://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Sam-Redux-On-Unity-Compiz [15:17] ha it totally does nicomachus [15:19] it looks a bit different now, but not much === JanC is now known as Guest75772 === JanC_ is now known as JanC [15:41] hi Oscboll [15:50] https://tutorials.ubuntu.com/tutorial/snap-a-website#0 [15:54] Is Ubuntu really killing UNITY ? [15:54] arunpyasi: there are plans for 18.04 to have gnome as default [15:54] lotuspsychje, so, its not confirmed ? [15:55] arunpyasi: unity won't be the default [15:55] lotuspsychje, is UBUNTU/Canonical gonna maintain Unity further ? [15:55] arunpyasi: yes its confirmed unity and ubuntu phones will stop [15:55] unity8 already has a public website [15:55] "Killed" is a drastic word for it. [15:55] nacc, why was that deason made ? [15:55] arunpyasi: because convergence was for phone and phone is gone [15:56] nacc, hmm.. with Phone Unity also gone ? [15:56] arunpyasi: unity is not gone [15:56] arunpyasi: please read what we have said [15:56] arunpyasi: ubports will continue the phone project [15:56] nacc, ok.. [15:56] arunpyasi: unity is a community project [15:56] arunpyasi: canonical will stop pushing unity as the future (unity8) and mir [15:56] arunpyasi: but that doesn't mean they are dead [15:56] nacc, ohh ok [15:57] nacc, so, Unity will still be maintained but not official used in Ubuntu by default ? [15:57] Unity was never owned by Canonical ? [15:59] !unity | arunpyasi [15:59] arunpyasi: Unity is the default UI since Ubuntu 11.04. Unity is a shell for GNOME. see http://unity.ubuntu.com. For a GNOME 2-like experience, see !notunity [16:00] arunpyasi: i'm not sure what you mean by 'owned' by canonical? [16:00] arunpyasi: and not sure what you mean by 'not official' [16:04] well thats the whole reason Cinnamon got so popular was Gnome [16:04] but its nice to have choices === Guest96888 is now known as IdleOne [16:05] acheron-a: yeah flavors make it all interesting [16:05] acheron-a: this is linux. You always have a choice. Want to keep using Unity? go ahead. There's already like 50 forks competing for it. [16:05] i'm running Cinnamon 3.2.8 on Ubuntu [16:05] gross [16:05] acheron-a: does that run smooth? [16:05] nacc: I installed ubuntu gnome 17.04 last night and the touchscreen stuff works pretty well. That on screen keyboard though is kinda bad [16:05] yes [16:05] * nicomachus hates cinnamon :/ [16:05] tgm4883: yeah, i have no idea how the OSK is supposed to work :( [16:05] tgm4883: it basically feels like it doesn't [16:06] i do not care for Mint's implementation of it [16:06] tgm4883: and with u-g, it seems really sensitve to context when it shows up [16:06] acheron-a: so cinnamon from upstream? [16:06] nacc: it works fine for me except when I accidently touch a keyboard key it disappears, and also it's pretty difficult to thumb type with it [16:06] I wonder if there's different designs for it [16:07] tgm4883: i did a quick apt search the other day and there are a bunch of packages taht provide it [16:07] but i don't know how you configure which to use [16:07] nacc: I'll poke around and see what I can find [16:08] tgm4883: thanks, i'll be curious what you are able to achieve! [16:10] http://www.tecmint.com/install-cinnamon-desktop-in-ubuntu-fedora-workstations/ [16:10] thats how i did it [16:10] lets c [16:11] so far, so good, i am testing it on 2 computers, AMD and Intel [16:12] acheron-a: looks rather nice, but ill stick to non-ppa stuff [16:12] i understand, thats the only PPA i have [16:12] no sweat, everyone does what he likes :p [16:13] maybe in the future ubuntu will officially have it in their reps [16:13] alot will happen next, thats for sure [16:13] they have 2.8 but it does not run well [16:14] cinnamon-core/xenial,xenial 2.8.0 [16:15] cinnamon-desktop-environment/xenial,xenial 2.8.0 [16:15] thats available without a PPA [16:15] 3.2 in zesty [16:15] nice [16:15] apt list cinn* [16:18] looks to be 2.8.6-1ubuntu1 in xenial [16:49] omg [16:49] https://plus.google.com/+MarkShuttleworthCanonical/posts/7LYubpaHUHH [16:49] baizon: why is that omg? [16:49]