[09:24] <darkxst> jbicha: or steal whatever hack ubufox are using to make homepage overrides work (assuming it works there also?)
[09:26] <jbicha> ubufox creates about:startpage which won't work with FF57+
[09:27] <darkxst> whats in zesty? not 57?
[09:28] <jbicha> technically, we're still at FF50 actually :|
[09:28] <jbicha> but I expect FF52 to be shoved in there before or at release
[09:30] <darkxst> but we could just disable the about:startpage code for now ?
[09:30] <darkxst> is google the default search in firefox these days?
[09:31] <jbicha> uh, on Windows, it's Yahoo
[09:32] <darkxst> oh right, I vaguely recall that.
[09:43] <jbicha> if we drop our homepage override, I don't think we will be able to bring it back
[09:45] <jbicha> ooh, let me try this…
[09:48] <jbicha> darkxst: I figured it out, we need to use defaultPref instead of pref
[09:48] <jbicha> https://developer.mozilla.org/Firefox/Enterprise_deployment
[10:10] <darkxst> hey willcooke
[10:22] <willcooke> hey darkxst, how goes?
[10:23] <darkxst> good, snowed last night (though we don't want the snow yet!)
[10:28] <willcooke> Heh, I got sun burned yesterday :)
[10:37] <darkxst> the weather is nuts, ey!
[10:40] <darkxst> willcooke, any updates on a meeting?
[10:41] <darkxst> I will be home for easter, so will actually have real internet over that period, but guessing you are off on holidays also
[10:41] <darkxst> ?
[10:41] <willcooke> darkxst, 'fraid not.  We're a bit busy with other things this week.  So next week at the earliest. And to add to the fun it's release week.
[10:42] <willcooke> oh, yeah, public hols here
[10:42] <darkxst> I am well aware its release week ;)
[10:42] <willcooke> :)
[10:52] <LaserAllan> Hey there, is there an addon that will give me Windows lists on each screen?
[10:54] <LaserAllan> I found an addon that places a list at the bottom of the screen on one of my screens but id like to have it on each screen
[10:56] <darkxst> LaserAllan, there is one that is part of GNOME Classic session, but it may not support multiple monitors
[10:56] <darkxst> willcooke, oh well will work something out, can hookup a hangout at work in the meanwhile until I get ADSL
[10:56] <LaserAllan> darkxst: I think that the extension i ahv installed, I am sorry if I want my Linux work environment to kidn fo represent what I have on Windows but it'd defeintely be beneficial if such an addon exists
[10:57] <LaserAllan> darkxst: FIbre cable should be a human right
[10:57] <darkxst> LaserAllan, not in Australia
[10:57] <LaserAllan> I don't I have had ADSL since like 2004-2005
[10:57] <LaserAllan> darkxst: Australia has other amazing things though
[10:57] <darkxst> LaserAllan, way back I wrote a multiple monitor extension (for the top panel)
[10:57] <LaserAllan> Like amazing nature
[10:58] <darkxst> no longer maintained though
[10:58] <darkxst> LaserAllan, issue here is that its staff accomm, I can't just go an get ADSL installed
[10:58] <LaserAllan> Ah, that would be something that I'd like to see, I am trying to change from Windows to Linux at work but it has proven harder than I thought
[10:59] <darkxst> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/323/multiple-monitor-panels/
[10:59] <LaserAllan> darkxst: Why not?, there should at least be some form of telephone cable to your house?, I gues here in scandinavia it's rather different here if you don't have Fibre today people frown as if its weird and it kinda is, even on the countryside they have, even more actually since the ISP's get allto of money from the state to do that
[10:59] <LaserAllan> darkxst: Thank you
[10:59] <darkxst> LaserAllan, it won't likely work with current GNOME
[11:00] <darkxst> it was more an experient, I was hoping to upstream
[11:00] <LaserAllan> My next quesiton would be if there is an extensions that would for example blink when something is sent in a chat or whatever, probably not apr tof the GNOME package but it would be nice
[11:00] <darkxst> but never happened
[11:00] <LaserAllan> Sad
[11:00] <LaserAllan> Becuase multiple monitor workspace is rather important, I have 4 screens at work and 6 at home
[11:00] <darkxst> LaserAllan, its a permission issue, I don't have authority to install my own ADSL
[11:01] <LaserAllan> darkxst: Sad again, so you are on mobile connection?
[11:01] <darkxst> LaserAllan, I never got past 3 screens
[11:01] <darkxst> yes mobile, but ADSL is coming soon
[11:01] <LaserAllan> Sounds good, and fibre?
[11:01] <LaserAllan> Does no one have fibre in Australia?
[11:02] <LaserAllan> darkxst: It's just that working with mutliple screens and lets say you have more windos on the same screen than you currently have visible would be rather improtant, is it just a funciton I haven't discouvered yet or is it not there?
[11:05] <LaserAllan> darkxst: correct me if i am wrong
[11:10] <darkxst> upstream recognise the need to improve multiple monitor support, but never really got to the design decisions
[11:10] <darkxst> ^solving
[11:10] <darkxst> I would say from experiments, the appmenu works well on each monitor
[11:10] <darkxst> the workplace switcher is crap
[11:10] <darkxst> (that idea worked on 2 screens but didnt scale past that)
[11:12] <darkxst> LaserAllan, they started to build a Fibre network and then the new government killed it
[11:12] <darkxst> no we are getting 2000 tech in FTTN
[11:13] <darkxst> and I am so remote here, we not even getting that
[11:13] <LaserAllan> darkxst: That's really sad, and here i was really hoping really hard that Linux could replace my Windows workspace
[11:15] <LaserAllan> darkxst: But maybe that changes now that Cannonical is going to focus more on GNOME than unity
[11:15] <darkxst> yes GNOME requires improvements on multi screen support, but things like window lists are outside the scope of GNOME design principle
[11:15] <LaserAllan> But one would think that something as big as GNOME would have develoepd support for mutliple monitors, or wlel a good workspace with a decent setup for it
[11:16] <LaserAllan> Well as long as a clear design is thought out then I am willing to adept to using it
[11:16] <darkxst> I agree that the current setup doesnt really scale well beyond 2 monitors
[11:17] <LaserAllan> No, I currently at this time is using 2 monitors because i am waiting for my new computer parts but I am gnerally using 3 or 6
[11:17] <LaserAllan> would be awesome if they did design it so scaling beyond 2 monitors could work well
[11:18] <LaserAllan> I have tried KDE and XFCE but they didn't seem to handle multiple monitors well either
[11:18] <darkxst> its a niche market, not something redhat will fund, so requires community members to implement
[11:19] <darkxst> and really windows 7 is not any better by default
[11:22] <darkxst> and how many users actually have 6 monitors?
[11:25] <fleetfox> :0000
[11:26] <LaserAllan> darkxst:
[11:26] <LaserAllan> ok
[11:26] <LaserAllan> 3 then?:D
[11:26] <LaserAllan> That is rather common
[11:27] <jbicha> LaserAllan: actually, 1 is extremely common
[11:27] <LaserAllan> Windows 10 actually has good scaling, when it comes to many monitors, please correc tme if i amw rong
[11:27] <jbicha> some people have a second monitor
[11:27] <LaserAllan> jbicha: Is it?:P, damn i thnk i ahve had at least 3 for around 10 years
[11:27] <LaserAllan> I added a fourth one at work so I could VPN home and play Steam games at work and have a dedicated monitor for that
[11:28] <LaserAllan> I really thought at least 3 were rather common
[11:28] <LaserAllan> Also, I didn't know Redhat funds development fo GNOME
[11:28] <darkxst> LaserAllan, we are probably the 1% or linux users (that make up ~2% of total computer users) that have more than 2 monitors
[11:28] <fleetfox> sometimes i wish i had 3rd
[11:29] <darkxst> or should the be 0.01% of linux users with more than 2 monitors
[11:29] <LaserAllan> darkxst: Speaking of percentage, how big is the Linux desktop userbase?
[11:29] <darkxst> LaserAllan, its an impossible number to gauge
[11:29] <darkxst> short of installing spyware on everyones computers
[11:30] <LaserAllan> darkxst: I really hope it is getting higher and that Windows gets lower, hoepfulyl the next Windows version wil lbe a Linux implementation like thats gonna haopen but it would be nice
[11:30] <LaserAllan> darkxst: True
[11:30] <darkxst> LaserAllan, windows 10 has a Ubuntu powershell ;)
[11:31] <darkxst> that is a start ;)
[11:32] <LaserAllan> darkxst: True but is it actually useful?, I mean if it comes that far then its only a philosohpica thing to use either Windows or Linux, i would hope though that it becomes so that using Linux you can play any game natively
[11:33] <darkxst> LaserAllan, at this point its basically just a bash shell (with all the tools that come with it).
[11:33] <darkxst>  I find that useful
[11:33] <darkxst> an average user wouldnt
[11:34] <LaserAllan> darkxst: Yeah it can be very useful, as to move files and search text files and so on, that's really nice to be honest. But I am hopeing that I can start using Linux on all my computers. To begin with I am going to build a linux workstation.
[11:34] <LaserAllan> darkxst: And other things of course.
[11:34] <LaserAllan> But using grep to search for example a DHCP log file would be much better than hving to godamn open it in notepad
[11:36] <darkxst> Ive not had a (personal) windows box in over 10 years, but you know at work I don't get that choice
[11:36] <fleetfox> people claim that powershell is as expressive or even better than bash
[11:36] <fleetfox> it just has different ideology behind it
[11:36] <darkxst> its a very different ideology
[11:37] <darkxst> do love how easy it makes to remote control servers
[11:37] <LaserAllan> Yeah I have a colleague that claims powershell is amazing, I don't doubt him but I like Linux more than Windows. beeing spied upon is not something i liek to apy for but thena gain fi you want to paly games then you kinda need to play on Windows, but I am going to go down the rotue where I stream steam locally to my Linux workstation
[11:38] <LaserAllan> darkxst: Remote control servers with powershell?, I actually haven't used powershell for more than creating a custom ESXI iso sometime ago
[11:38] <fleetfox> game situation is getting better every year
[11:38] <darkxst> I also hate the fact I am now maintaining windows servers
[11:38] <LaserAllan> darkxst: Whya re you?:D
[11:38] <darkxst> work
[11:38] <LaserAllan> fleetfox: Yeah, I wonder why
[11:38] <fleetfox> why? valve, vulkan
[11:39] <LaserAllan> fleetfox: Well from what ive seen Vulkan has only been used for demonstratino ro are there actually games that run Vulkan now?, I know DOOM does but i have no idea of the performanc eof it comapred to DirectX
[11:39] <darkxst> LaserAllan, son't worry though I have evil plans to start spinning up Ubuntu servers ;)
[11:40] <darkxst> there are a handful of games with Vulkan support so far
[11:40] <fleetfox> performance is on par with dx12 assuming you have a good implementation
[11:40] <LaserAllan> darkxst: I have to be hones tthough, I run a ubuntu 1404 server at a provider ehre and I am really worried when i really need to dist upgrade, so much shit is going to break, that's one really good thing about FreeBSD, so far ive not had that issue there on the servers I maintain there but on ubuntu it seems to be update to break it
[11:41] <darkxst> vulkan seems to go pretty good against OpenGL but not seen any benchmarks against DX12
[11:41] <LaserAllan> fleetfox: I think that is the problem, big studios like Ubisoft isn't going to invest money in that unless they get it for free and i think Microsoft is giving studios money and help with implementing DirectX that I guess could be where Vulkan can fall short as there aren't any kind of company that does that?, unless its easy enough to get performanc eon par with Direct
[11:42] <jbicha> yes, a 14.04>16.04 server upgrade will probably need manual tweaking (php5>php7 for instance)
[11:42] <darkxst> and you should not be running a dist-upgrade on stable release
[11:42] <darkxst> (unless pulling in HWE stacks)
[11:44] <darkxst> I can't think of any issues, well not major breakage with 14.04 updates on servers I deal with
[11:45] <fleetfox> LaserAllan: i don't think microsoft is giving anyone money, except for exclusive xbox deals.
[11:45] <darkxst> migrating through the HWE stacks is problematic, but your not doing that on a server
[11:46] <darkxst> fleetfox, no, but they are contributing a lot to open source in recent years
[11:47] <fleetfox> yes but i don't see that impairing vulkan in any way
[11:47] <LaserAllan> darkxst: Thank you, that was soemthign I didnt know, but no its a VPS actually runing a mail/web serverwith some other things
[11:47] <LaserAllan> darkxst: How would you recomend I do it?
[11:47] <LaserAllan> do release upgradE?
[11:48] <darkxst> for example is kind of ironic that both vmware and azure have first class support for linux guests. Yet VirtualBox is a mess
[11:48] <darkxst> LaserAllan, apt-get upgrade
[11:49] <darkxst> I wonder though if you have 3rd party repos? there should be any api breakages in the LTS releases themselves
[11:49] <darkxst> the HWE updates are optin
[11:49] <darkxst> s/should/shouldn't/
[11:50] <LaserAllan> darkxst: No i don't use any third party repos
[11:50] <LaserAllan> the software i sue that aren't installed from the official repo has been compiled
[11:50] <LaserAllan> manually
[11:50] <LaserAllan> darkxst: But apt-get upgrade only upgrades certain packages?, not upgrading to 1604 LTS from 1404
[11:51] <darkxst> no, that will likely cause problems,
[11:52] <jbicha> LaserAllan: back up all your data
[11:52] <darkxst> and would normally be staged late in the 5 year cycle
[11:52] <jbicha> your configuration files might need to be tweaked manually
[11:52] <LaserAllan> jbicha: yeah I will create a backup of the whole VPS before doing an upgrade
[11:52] <darkxst> you don't need to upgrade the server every 2 years
[11:53] <LaserAllan> darkxst: I am going to do it at the end of the cycle, i think 1404 is support untel what 2019?
[11:53] <darkxst> yes its 5 years for ubuntu server
[11:53] <darkxst> 3 years for UBuntu GNOME though
[11:53] <LaserAllan> Damn
[11:53] <LaserAllan> That's really nice
[11:54] <LaserAllan> So I can wait a little longer, but when I do need to upgrade, shit is going to really hit the fan, but ofc I will do a complete snapshot of the whole server before upgrading, specially since i run a mail server both icnogina dn outging on that server
[11:57] <LaserAllan> darkxst: I didnt know redhat funds development of GNOME actually
[11:57] <darkxst> LaserAllan, they are not the only one, but they are the biggest
[11:58] <darkxst> also Collabra and Endless have full-time employees working on GNOME I believe
[11:58] <darkxst> CAnonical also have employees contributing to GNOME
[12:01] <darkxst> more on the core libraries though up until last weeks announcements
[12:02] <LaserAllan> Ah
[12:02] <LaserAllan> Hopefully they will focus more on it the coming months because it would be awesome to get better multiple monitor support for GNOME
[12:06] <fleetfox> darkxst: do you know what are long term plans for rust adoption?
[12:06] <LaserAllan> darkxst: You said the applications menun can be on each monitor, is there a specific extension for that?, I currently use two monitors since i am on a laptop currently, but the second monitor doesn't have the "Applications" meny
[12:06] <LaserAllan> "menu
[12:10] <LaserAllan> darkxst: Oh yes anotherthing that would be awesoe if if GNOME adds more ways to view files in the File Explorer, like details instea dof lnly icons or list
[12:11] <darkxst> LaserAllan, only my now unmaintained extension as far as I know
[12:11] <LaserAllan> darkxst: :Damn:P
[12:11] <LaserAllan> I really hope it changes with time
[12:12] <LaserAllan> Pardon me for asking stupid questions, I have used linux and UNIX for servers for a few years but not in the desktop world at all. Until now....so I am trying to see what I can and cannot do with GNOME comapred to Windows.
[12:12] <darkxst> fleetfox, not heard anything about rust adoption outside of firefox world
[12:12] <LaserAllan> What about the linunx audio mess?
[12:13] <LaserAllan> Rust seems rather nice
[12:14] <darkxst> LaserAllan, what mess? pulseaudio is pretty good for general users, and then there is JACK for real time audio
[12:14] <fleetfox> darkxst: https://blogs.gnome.org/chergert/2017/03/31/rustic-gnome-day-3/
[12:14] <LaserAllan> darkxst: Sorry I should have been more specific, I am looking to use 7.1 Dolby digital audio on Linu, is that possible?
[12:16] <darkxst> fleetfox, that would be well cool if rust could grow gobect introspection support
[12:17] <darkxst> LaserAllan, that probably becomes a driver issue?
[12:18] <darkxst> there is nothing inherently limiting 7.1 support in pulse
[12:18] <darkxst> but many hardware manufacturers arent great at supporting linux
[12:18] <LaserAllan> Few are
[12:18] <LaserAllan> Corsair for example
[12:18] <LaserAllan> Quite terrible
[12:19] <darkxst> LaserAllan, wait till you step into the ARM world, it can't get worse
[12:19] <LaserAllan> darkxst: Sad
[12:20] <LaserAllan> It will probably not get better either, really sad, I would really like to replace Windows with Linux but for gaming it's really hard
[12:20] <darkxst> yes, but all you do is support companies that support linux
[12:22] <darkxst> its crap that is 2017 and we still have to carefully choose hardware for linux, but its worlds better than it was 10 years ago
[12:23] <LaserAllan> Sure
[12:23] <LaserAllan> darkxst: Do you know how support for AMD Zen looks like?
[12:23] <darkxst> the ARM world though is depressing, proprietry drivers stacked on the kernel
[12:23] <darkxst> and never updated
[12:23] <LaserAllan> I am probably goign to build a linux workstiaton with Zen and a MINI itx motheraboard with a decent amoutn fo ram
[12:24] <LaserAllan> Things need to happen there
[12:24] <darkxst> LaserAllan, Intel support is first class, you can't go wrong there
[12:26] <darkxst> nvidia's support is also really good (if you are not a FOSS fanatic that won't use proprietry drivers)
[12:27] <darkxst> in short I would be going a Intel Xeon with Nvidia GPU for a workstation
[12:28] <darkxst> the only thing AMD has proven is they can make cheap and slow CPU's and GPU's
[12:28] <LaserAllan> Intel Xeon'?
[12:28] <LaserAllan> Ok
[12:28] <LaserAllan> So AMD zen is a bad choice then?
[12:28] <darkxst> E3 v5 xeons
[12:29] <LaserAllan> Damn
[12:29] <LaserAllan> Those are really expensive
[12:29] <LaserAllan> I have dual Xeon E5 2670v2s in my Proxmox VM host
[12:29] <LaserAllan> and dual Xeon 2670 v1s in my ZFS server
[12:30] <LaserAllan> Xeon feels overkill for a workstation but also very very expenisve, specially if you wanna build a smal computer, like mini itx would be nice
[12:30] <darkxst> no E3's are about inline with the i7's
[12:30] <LaserAllan> darkxst: But I gues i could go with an intel i7 and a mini itx motherbaord
[12:30] <LaserAllan> "motherbaord
[12:30] <LaserAllan> Ah
[12:30] <LaserAllan> But I just need to find a mini itx motherboad then
[12:30] <darkxst> E5's are mega cores
[12:30] <darkxst> like 12 minimum ?
[12:33] <darkxst> and the v5's are going cheap now v6 has been released
[12:34] <darkxst> well cheaper
[12:43] <fleetfox> i dunno i'm building ryzen box
[12:44]  * fleetfox remembers the glory days of athlon64
[12:47] <LaserAllan> darkxst: Can you give me an exact model?
[12:47] <LaserAllan> darkxst: Seems liek you are suggesting m,y 2670 v2s are overkill
[12:48] <LaserAllan> :D
[12:48] <LaserAllan> I got them for like 100 dollars each on ebay
[12:51] <fleetfox> LaserAllan: i find amusing that you have room for 6 monitors but want minitx :)
[12:54] <LaserAllan> fleetfox: Well my gamnig rig is a Cosmos II case
[12:55] <darkxst> LaserAllan, no, it depends on what you want and how much you want to spend
[12:56] <LaserAllan> darkxst: Well I was looking at the AMD 1800X CPU something similar if i am going Intel for sure
[12:58] <darkxst> LaserAllan, I dont think there is an AMD cpu that can compete with the Xeon's
[12:58] <darkxst> if I was going to build a cheap workstation
[12:58] <darkxst> probably E3-1230v5
[12:59] <darkxst> but that is still a $300 CPU in AUssie extortion rates
[13:00] <LaserAllan> darkxst: I think the total cost could be acceptable to be 2k dollars
[13:01] <darkxst> then you can probably go a 6core
[13:01] <darkxst> and i probably need to sleep
[13:04] <fleetfox> http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1849?vs=1853
[13:07] <fleetfox> i think only reason to buy xenon in this segment is pcie lines
[13:27] <LaserAllan> Are there any known bugs when playing videos with HTML5?, I have watched a few videos on youtube now and every 5 seconds or so the audio cracks up for like a second
[23:55] <blackdout> anyone else getting two terminal icons when they favorite it in activities?
[23:55] <blackdout> (17.04)
[23:58] <jbicha> blackdout: that's LP: #1643347
[23:58] <blackdout> thanks jeremy
[23:58] <jbicha> the good news is I think there's a decent chance we can fix that for 17.10
[23:59] <blackdout> Think thats a different bug
[23:59] <blackdout> I'm not getting a new instance, just two shortcuts on favorites