[07:31] morning [07:34] morning boys and girls. [07:42] downloaded ubuntu gnome 17.04RC for a play [07:46] :) [07:48] morning all [09:06] Good morning all! Happy Monday, and happy Golfer's Day! 😃 🏌 ⛳ [09:07] i'm sure trump will tweet about it [09:07] don't care for golfing, just want to dance 💃 👯 [09:08] wonder when screen will support unicode :( [09:08] Does it not? [09:08] not here [09:08] i got a golf putter, but also lots of ?? [09:08] I'm using byobu, and that's fine, but I think byobu is based on tmux [09:08] � [09:09] gnome shell doesn't seem to have evolved much in 3 yrs [09:10] uhhh, I think it has [09:10] how? [09:11] i've only had cursory look so far [09:11] The usability of it is considerable better now that it was a few years back. Moving the notifications to the top was a great step [09:13] are you using ubuntu gnome? [09:13] which extensions? [09:13] No, I'm using fedora 26 alpha [09:15] tbh, I don't think the ubuntu gnome implementation is that great [09:16] for instance, nautilus is gnome shell now has better spacing, but this hasn't made its way to Ubuntu [09:17] http://i.imgur.com/u0NqxQk.png [09:20] is that on a VM? the window looks massive [09:20] what spacing SuperMatt ? [09:21] Yes, it is a vm [09:21] the spacing between the folder icons there is much better in vanilla gnome [09:21] If you make the icons that size in Ubuntu Gnome, you'll realise how hideous it looks [09:22] http://imgur.com/a/yHmQw# [09:22] gnome has a non hideous setting?! [09:22] http://imgur.com/a/yHmQw [09:22] thats ubuntu gnome [09:22] oh! They finally caught up! [09:23] how can i reduce the title bar size? [09:23] You don't, I think [09:23] get a bigger monitor? :-P [09:25] elementary seem to be able to do it without the massive title bars [09:26] but include the title bar icons etc in similar way [09:26] gnome looks like its designed as a touch interface for fat fingers [09:26] firefox is ok but nautilus is ridiculous [09:27] gnome has looked that way since i first tried it in red hat 5.2... pretty but wrong [09:28] 10:17 < SuperMatt> http://i.imgur.com/u0NqxQk.png [09:28] that looks like a toytown os [09:28] * popey grumbles more about the death of unity [09:29] all DEs > unity > gnome shell [09:29] I'm very happy with gnome because I can work it without a mouse [09:30] and it stays out of my way [09:30] which is what a de should do [09:30] except gnome doesn't [09:30] because of the weird overlay screen when you hit super. and the massive title bars [09:34] btw i am hiring programmers (permanent), so if anyone knows any, this is more interesting than most corporate programming jobs [09:34] popey: could be worse could be windows [09:39] popey: that screenshot i posted was on my laptop too. not even a low res VM [09:42] foobarry: but that overlay screen is ok, because I can still hit meta, type "fi", press enter, and load firefox [09:43] JamesTait: you didn't go for siblings days man you suck [09:44] foobarry: Where and what tech? [09:45] popey: who decides whether a flavour can be official or not? [09:45] like supposing i decide i can do a better job than xubuntu and i make my own xfce-based flavour [09:45] JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPyJLRFk_UY [09:45] who picks which one is "official"? [09:45] can they both be official? [09:46] ali1234: Mark as far I know [09:47] ali1234: yeap they could both be official but you would need to maintain it reliably for x period of time as I understand it [09:47] ali1234: they would just need different names [09:47] TwistedLucidity: coding for researchers (mainly scientific research). optimise code and learn about HPC. get your name on research papers. save the world [09:48] C/C++/fortran/python/ linux desktops and servers all the way/ github enterprise/ CUDA programming [09:48] take your piuck and learn the others on the job :D [09:48] * JamesTait takes notes. [09:49] C - Never used. C++ - I've looked at it. Fortran - Done that many moons again. Python - Nup. Github - used twice. CUDA - Nup. [09:49] * TwistedLucidity is clearly qualified! [09:49] foobarry: isn't that what you do with every job lol [09:49] davmor2, I see what you did there. [09:49] morning davmor2 [09:50] MooDoo: what, learn on the job? [09:50] JamesTait: you like that right [09:50] foobarry: yeah ;) [09:50] MooDoo: hey dude [09:50] anyway, job link is here https://webapps2.is.qmul.ac.uk/jobs/job.action?jobID=2191 [09:50] officially closing date is today but if anyone was seriously intersted then buzz me since there are 2 roles going [09:51] looks great [09:51] That seems like a low salary for London. [09:51] ali1234: techboard [09:52] TwistedLucidity yeah but very rewarding [09:52] I thought London was meant to be all node.js ninjas earning £60k+ as a fresh graduate? [09:52] foobarry: i can do cuda and python [09:52] numpy presumably [09:52] that would make a strong case for getting an interview [09:52] * MooDoo can make tea ! [09:52] 30 days leave is kinda nice [09:52] no fortran though [09:53] I doubt there would be room for two xfce based flavours [09:53] I would anticipate the techboard (not wishing to speak for them) would suggest working together [09:53] it was just an example popey [09:53] sure [09:53] we don't require any particular language, just good attitude and perhaps a penchant for helping people and making things work more optimially [09:53] foobarry: Well, that's me out. I prefer to point and laugh. :-P [09:54] but CUDA skills are a bonus atm as we are on a consortium which just spent £4M on a massive gpu cluster [09:54] there's so much awesome available [09:54] And you can compute just how much awesome IN PARRALLEL! [09:54] all the awesomes [09:54] thats a lot of GPUs [09:55] might have been a smaller tender for that clsuter. need to check [09:55] [09:55] the other clusters were 16000 cores [09:55] ah http://gow.epsrc.ac.uk/NGBOViewGrant.aspx?GrantRef=EP/P020275/1 [09:56] The architecture is based on ``fat'' GPU compute nodes, with 8 of NVIDIA's new Pascal GPUs [09:56] The motivation for selecting this architecture is the huge growth in research in machine learning and associated areas of data science within the UK [09:56] loads of fun stuff [09:56] "The machine has learnt that meatsacks are a problem. EXTERMINATE!" [09:56] we have our own cluster too [09:57] with a few K80s [09:57] who's in the consorteum? [09:57] the GPU consortium: University of Oxford, with support from the Alan Turing Institute (ATI), Bristol, Edinburgh, KCL, QMUL, Sheffield, Southampton and UCL is for a national GPU system that will support multidisciplinary science [09:57] its gonna be pretty much cutting edge machine learning stuffs [09:58] caffe, tensorflow, all that jazz [09:59] can any organization use it? [09:59] its mainly assisting researchers create their code and optimising it, profiling it to see where inefficiences lie, and converting peoples code to run in parallel, all sorts of fun stuff [09:59] if you are a EPSRC funded researcher in one of those institutions yeah [09:59] they might sell slices to private sector too [10:00] i doubt the british library falls under that [10:00] however [10:00] I shudder to think how complicated parallel could get. There's times where more simple multi-threaded stuff is enough to give on a migraine. [10:00] if the BL collaborate with reearchers then yeah [10:00] books are physical tho right? [10:00] just like kew gardens [10:00] collaborate with uni and then get access to big compute for genome assembly etc [10:01] the BL have their own research dept [10:02] they have phd students so presumably its attached to some university [10:02] not sure which one though [10:02] actually a colleague was just running some word analysis stuff [10:02] linguistics research [10:02] https://www.bl.uk/news/2017/february/esrc-phd-studentship-continuity-and-change-in-spoken-british-english [10:02] thats collab with QMUL [10:07] so the BL has 9000 hours of VHS tapes [10:08] my CUDA code run at approximately real-time on a GTX780 [10:10] £3M GPU cluster would sure help that [10:11] i just rammed 6 GPU in my test server [10:12] that description of the cluster doesn't say how many servers it has [10:12] i got some M2090 for free after the comp sci group bought 2 nvidia dgx-1 [10:12] which runs ubuntu i think [10:13] aren't those really old? [10:13] yeah, thats why they were free [10:13] our proper cluster has K80s [10:16] yeah there's not much info on JADE yet since its only getting online now. emerald is the existing one http://www.ses.ac.uk/high-performance-computing/emerald/ [10:19] there is also an ARM cluster [10:19] https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-03/eaps-shp032717.php yeah JADE was £3M [10:32] I built a small virtual cluster yesterday and learnt a valuable lesson. [10:33] DO NOT try to start a cluster on a Core 2 Duo with 4GB RAM. Whilst it will work, it'll take the poor thing about ~20 mins to handle the shutdown request. [10:34] what sort of cluster? [10:35] Cassandra [10:35] HA cluster? [10:35] Just a noddy wee thing to dick around on. [10:36] It would be HA if you had a professional do it. But I didn't pay much attention to how the seeds were structured or consider how a client would handle a node going down. [10:36] Will probably look at that this week. Important thing is; 1. it works, 2. I can connect, 3. I can create keyspaces etc. [10:37] Must admit the whole "The database will be consistent....eventually." thing kinda gives me the shivers. [10:38] And I had to go and look up the word "idempotent" :-) [10:39] "Your update timed out, want to run it again? Do you feel lucky, punk? Well, do yah?" [10:40] ARGH! I put "punk" in the wrong place. [10:40] * TwistedLucidity moves to the naughty step for at time out [10:42] the 5th or 6th naughty step? [10:45] 3rd naughty step, 6th flight of stairs :-( [10:50] was stunned years later when i realised watching ds9 that garak was in dirty harry [11:17] i am actually shopping around for a new distro on my work laptop [11:18] due to various issues. hope they are fixed in real ubuntu [11:25] * BigRedS plugs Bunsenlabs :) [11:37] not for work :P [11:37] looks like a #crunchbang [11:39] i've been testing gnome [11:39] its not that bad [11:39] a few fixes and it could be usable [11:40] What fixes would those be? [11:40] put a small delay on submenus [11:40] make all the classic mode extensions support multimonitor [11:41] add theming support to them as well [11:41] i heard that gnome doesn't support different resolution settings per monitor. sounds odd [11:41] surely untrue [11:41] it does support it, just not very well [11:41] eg menus are constrained to the top of the lowest monitor [11:41] that's a gdk bug [11:42] been around since... gtk+3 [11:42] that's another thing that needs fixing [11:42] Qt works fine, so it isn't anything to do with gnome [11:42] xfce has a workaround for this bug [11:43] it was reported to gtk like two years ago [11:43] still not fixed [11:43] ali1234: btw where do u work atm? [11:43] or studying? [11:43] i am self employed [11:44] coder for sale? general make things work kinda contracts? [11:44] yeah [11:45] actually our current software engineer came from same background [11:45] making things work is my specialty... i don't like writing new code [11:45] did you study at manchester too? [11:45] yes [11:46] Manchester has always been good at making stuff work [11:48] https://imgur.com/a/Ep8kD [11:48] this is the "different sized monitors" bug [11:49] it's actually about where the top of the monitor is [11:49] foobarry: Crunchbang died, Bunsen's one of the lets-carry-this-on projects [11:49] GNOME and gtk+3 is full of paper cuts like this [11:49] ali1234: It aligned the bottom rather than the top? [11:50] penguin42: it is aligned to the panel on the secondary monitor [11:51] Oh, is that *still* a thing? [11:51] it is still a thing on GNOME [11:51] everyone else implemented workarounds for it years ago [11:51] the bug is actually in Gdk [11:54] gnome bug 764310 [11:54] Gnome bug 764310 in Backend: Wayland "Certain menus display at wrong position in configured multi-monitor setups under Wayland" [Normal,New] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=764310 [11:54] it also happens under X11 of course [11:55] free range eggs: https://twitter.com/jesslynnrose/status/851401937048264704 [12:05] ali1234: It's high time Canonical ditched that buggy GNOME and switched to Yunit [12:17] is ubuntu gnome using wayland yet? [12:18] probably, if you have one of the three video cards where it works [12:19] and you sacrifice an oily goat [12:20] "in the name of the father, the sun, and the oily goat" [12:20] yes I spelled sun correctly :-p [12:20] works in fredora though dunnit? [12:20] * penguin42 hands diddledan some goat wash [12:48] i'm sure you could get some at the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puck_Fair [12:55] wow is that where pheasant pluckers go? [12:55] foobarry: Only for their Friday feast [12:55] fuzzy duck? [12:58] I think pheasant pluckers are pleasent [12:59] budgie seems ....weird [12:59] like when you install xfce on your unity session and the notifications and theme look all wrong [13:00] its a weird mix of nasty icons , ubuntu buttons, tiny elementary dock and massive gnome title bars [13:03] problem is you're using it outside its natural habitat. Go and take a look at Solus, see what themes, icons and fonts they use, then use those [13:09] well i tried the ubuntu budgie spin [13:10] should be reasonably sensible? [13:12] i steer clear of solus due to shifting sands constantly on that project. [13:13] until they decide on/finish something [13:15] I don't know how good the budgie remix is [13:17] looking at screenshots , doesn't loko a whole lot different [13:18] has the same weird incongruence [13:18] that's odd [13:18] Budgie is quite usable, except last time I used it, it had no alt+tab [13:19] I can't remember if it had an exposé feature either [13:19] I always use the top left as a hotspot to show all windows [13:19] and cannot stand when I don't have that feature [13:21] does MATE have that? [13:21] No idea [13:21] mate is looking pure gnome2 old school [13:22] mate doesn't have hot corners [13:23] activities view gives me a headache [13:26] ..aaaaand i'm back to elementary [13:26] maybe i'll just reinstall and hope it fixes my laptop issues [13:30] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zpgQpdy_fI [13:33] well i know what gives the best UI experience. [13:33] just experiencing some hardware type issues that may or may not affect other buntus [13:34] I was quite impressed with Ubuntu MATE and the way you can change the UI to look like unity or elementary [13:36] I'm quite happy with Fedora at the moment, but if Canonical manage to make Gnome Shell better, I may well switch (especially for better graphics driver support) [13:36] hmm not tried that, just kept it simple as old Gnome2 [13:39] the arch cartoons in that video are pretty funny [13:40] how many unity forks are there now then? [13:40] i've seen about five different ones [14:05] http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/make-gnome-shell-look-feel-like-unity heh [14:06] oh its copy paste of https://kryogenix.org/days/2017/04/05/making-gnome-shell-feel-like-unity/ [14:13] SuperMatt: any gnome shell crashes? [14:13] i remember alt-f2 r being a big thing in early days [14:13] and enabling extensions one by one to see the crasher [14:17] http://imgur.com/a/Vvehr linux visitors read more pages [14:17] i saw it freeze twice today and i'm just kicking the tyres [14:17] thats my previous experience a few yrs ago [14:17] on usb live or disk install? [14:17] i right clicked on something and the whole thing froze, then about 20 seconds later it restarted [14:17] disk install [14:22] eww [14:22] what did that? [14:22] gnome-shell [14:23] ah right, is that the same as gnome3 o0 [14:23] foobarry: very rarely use it today, except in cases where I install a theme and need to reload [14:23] yes [14:25] ali1234: which extensions in use? [14:28] applications menu, places indicator, window list [14:28] nothing too exotic [14:29] all of them are supposed to be officially supported as part of classic mode [14:29] but i get the feeling they make classic mode deliberately not work properly [14:29] what is classic mode? [14:30] new name for failback mode? [14:30] it is a set of extensions that make gnome-shell look like a default gnome 2 layout [14:30] you get a window list and workspace switcher at the bottom [14:30] and you get an application menu instead of activities [14:30] you can't move any of them though [14:31] and the activities menu can only be on the primary monitor, nowhere else [14:31] its what you see in the screenshot i posted earlier [14:36] https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/76542419/conspiracy-cat-what-if-cancelling-unity-was-a-plan-to-make-it-more-popular.jpg [14:41] lol at yunit folks realising just how much work they will have to do to make unity run on wayland [14:44] its going to be funny watching them collide with wayland project [15:17] * penguin42 must try and see if there's any xfce work for wayland and see if I can help [15:17] * penguin42 has to finish some other impossible projects first though [15:17] :D [15:17] the best kind! [15:18] probably better to hack gnome shell to look more like unity [15:18] global menu sucks anyway === aquarius_ is now known as aquarius__ [15:45] I can haz power [15:45] hello electricity oh how I've missed you [15:46] ah [16:53] Hi. Are there any firewalls that prompt the user to allow/deny on outgoing connections? [16:57] * penguin42 doesn't know of any [16:59] Thanks. I've been directed to Douane [19:39] apparently downloads are running out: https://twitter.com/jonobacon/status/851519599627575296 [19:39] get your downloads now in case we run out [19:40] proably limited by an integer counter... once they hit 32000... :-P [19:42] 32000 is a weird number to fail on [19:42] :-p [19:42] not so much :-) https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10558540/vba-macro-crashes-after-32000-rows [19:42] I think you meant 32767 [19:43] i'm rounding down out of politeness and to flush out the ocd folk... ::makes note of diddledan's id:: [19:45] * diddledan makes a point of mentioning that I even accounted for the number being one-less-than 32*1024 because the usual "friendly" binary numbers (e.g. 32768) are actually from the next cycle [19:46] * zmoylan-pi underlines diddledan on list in red... [19:47] lol @ video encoding going at about 0.3x realtime [19:47] 12.5% done, 4.5 hours to go [19:47] maybe I chose too high a quality [19:48] i was amazed first time i ripped a dvd and it ripped quicker than the playtime of the dvd... [19:48] i was so used to overnight ripping on ancient mac mini [19:49] was that before libdvdcss existed? [19:49] no i'm pretty sure i still have that on a t-shirt somewhere which was older than the mac mini [19:51] oh Buck! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39560646 [19:52] * zmoylan-pi resets number of days for a school shooting to 0 [20:07] you can't rollback your iThingy away from APFS (filesystem) https://9to5mac.com/2017/04/10/apple-stops-signing-ios-10-2-1-preventing-downgrades-apfs/ [20:10] no backsies!! [20:52] * zmoylan-pi puts on dab radio to see what npr mentions about united passender handling... === acheronuk is now known as acheronUK [21:54] i nearly lost one of the girls today - http://i.imgur.com/Ox3C0x8.jpg [21:55] shot out the front door when i opened it :) [22:34] hopefully the moggies are chipped in case they get lost [22:34] probably :> [22:35] poor little guys are almost on their own for 2 weeks right now as my client, wife and kid are down in the Spain apartment for easter [22:36] cats are fairly resiliant compared to dogs... dogs need company, a cat is grand as long as theirs food, a litter box and a window to watch the world [22:37] or an Amazon account [22:37] yip, or a daftykins to troll [22:37] they have a dog too though :| hah [23:00] why doesn't IRC have a +1 button yet?! [23:01] * diddledan just looked for it on daftykins' second to last comment [23:01] I been facebooking too much [23:02] it's actually an interesting hard problem - you need something to aggregate the +1's and distribute the totals [23:02] ;) [23:03] I say we all move to slack [23:03] :-p [23:03] there are bots for irc to do that.... [23:03] i'v seen them in some channels [23:03] karma bots for people, not sure about for actual messages [23:34] wow just had this shared in another chan - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9FqD4bXcAAyzFo.jpg [23:35] daftykins: Nod, scary isn't it [23:35] daftykins: Now, tell me about your mother [23:35] Let me tell you about my mother... [23:36] :> [23:36] i wonder if they're going to ruin it with the upcoming sequel [23:37] they're bound to try adjusting the timeline [23:40] * penguin42 did see it in a cinema for the first time about a year ago, it was great - nice to see it on the big screen [23:47] i'd almost toss the Vangelis soundtrack on, buuuut it's already 1am nearly [23:47] and it does need to be loud [23:47] hehe [23:47] * daftykins pats the vinyl rip [23:48] oh i finally got my last quote today btw, £11,700 for the bathroom by the looks :| submit them to the insurance adjuster this afternoon [23:48] what happened? [23:48] water leak [23:49] rotten joist and damaged plasterboard amongst other things [23:49] discovered it in the new year, but it's taken until now to get through some of the rubbish [23:49] ouch, slow leak? [23:49] next i have to get quotes for accomodation for me and the cat... plus wait on what they're going to pay [23:49] yep [23:50] https://www.dropbox.com/s/lq2pz43hvi4519z/IMG_20170121_162824.jpg?dl=0 [23:50] good snap there [23:51] seems an inconvenient place to leak - waste water? [23:51] both that and the thermostatic valve in the stud wall, yip [23:52] oh actually it wasn't really the waste in the end but the wall sealant inside the shower enclosure allowing a leak out behind the tiles and onto the joist [23:52] on the 19th i'll have been without a shower for 3 months [23:52] ouch [23:53] that's why i see the kittens so much, i go up there to shower XD [23:55] * penguin42 doesn't understand that logic [23:56] hmm? client lets me use a spare bathroom :> [23:56] how much do they charge for the kitten access? [23:57] hahaha