/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2017/04/11/#ubuntu-desktop.txt

allison[m]good morning, desktoppers, and happy tuesday07:58
Laneyhey08:00
Laneyhi allison[m]08:00
allison[m]hey laney08:00
Laneysup08:00
didrockshey allison[m], Laney08:00
allison[m]not a lot.  eating breakfast, and enjoying a coffee08:00
allison[m]mascha is working from home today08:00
seb128hey desktopers08:00
seb128good morning Laney allison[m] didrocks08:01
Laneyhey seb12808:01
allison[m]hi seb128 :)08:01
Laneyhow's it going08:01
allison[m]mmm.  nice greasy breakfast always helps with the hangover :)08:02
allison[m]now, you might ask why i was hungover... as if i was drinking quite a lot on a monday night, in a seemingly irresponsible way08:02
allison[m]but there is a simple answer for why:08:02
allison[m]because i can  :)08:02
Laneymeow08:04
seb128Laney, could have done with drinking some beers in London with you yesterday :-/08:04
didrocksyeah, I only went with sparkling wine…08:05
Laneyseb128: indeed08:05
Laneydidrocks: we usually have that for celebrations :P08:05
allison[m]← kölsch, of course08:05
flexiondotorgMorning Laney seb128 allison[m] didrocks08:05
allison[m]flexiondotorg: hey :)08:06
didrocksmorning flexiondotorg08:06
seb128hey flexiondotorg08:06
allison[m]so uh08:09
allison[m]meeting today?08:09
seb128no08:10
seb128cf emails from willcooke yesterday morning08:10
seb128the "week commencing ..." one08:11
allison[m]ah.  too bad.08:11
seb128yeah :-/08:11
allison[m]might have been a nice exercise...08:12
allison[m]we can do it anyway :)08:12
seb128we can still do an informal hangout or such if some want08:12
allison[m]i think i'm going to go for a walk today :)08:12
Laneyallison gump08:13
seb128how is the weather?08:13
allison[m]overcast, but supposed to clear up08:13
seb128it's less nice that on sunday here but still decent08:13
seb128w.e is going to be grey/rainy though :-/08:13
allison[m]"...and that's what I did.  I walked clear across the federal state of Germany.  For no particular reason.  And when I got to Poland, I figured, since I'd gone this far, I might as well just keep on going..."08:15
seb128they hello to robert_ancell from me when you get there08:16
allison[m]:)08:16
seb128you don't mind a bit of swimming right? ;-)08:16
allison[m]the forrest formula says that i need to turn around if i hit an ocean08:16
andyrockmorning08:21
seb128hey andyrock, how are you?08:29
andyrockseb128: with a bit of cold but nothing that serious, what about you?08:30
seb128andyrock, bit of headache but ok otherwise I think08:30
seb128not an happy week still though08:31
flexiondotorgMonring andyrock08:31
andyrockmorning flexiondotorg08:31
andyrockseb128: :(08:31
GunnarHjseb128: Looks like you didn't pick the latest langpack tarball yesterday, after all.09:06
seb128waaat?09:06
seb128I so did09:07
GunnarHjseb128: The package name includes 20170404.09:07
seb128see https://launchpadlibrarian.net/315159105/language-pack-de-base_1%3A17.04+20170321_1%3A17.04+20170404.diff.gz09:08
seb128+"X-Launchpad-Export-Date: 2017-04-04 13:01+0000\n"09:08
GunnarHjseb128: The latest is from April 7.09:09
seb128hum, dunno what happened then :-/09:09
seb128I'm not familiar enough with those jobs09:09
seb128we either ask the release team if we can do another round today09:09
seb128or just declare that it's fine and deal with the extra translations as a SRU09:10
GunnarHjseb128: Let's go for the latter. Probably the difference is minimal.09:10
seb128yeah it's likely09:10
seb128sorry about that09:10
seb128I'm familiar with most of the process now so we do better next cycle09:10
GunnarHjseb128: Maybe you should change "Language pack base" at https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/zesty/+language-packs to the one you picked. That way I think the system will generate delta packages going forward.09:13
seb128GunnarHj, done09:13
GunnarHjseb128: Ok, guess we are done with langpacks for this cycle then. :)09:14
seb128GunnarHj, yeah, sorry that it was such a bumpy road, took me some time to get familiar with the tools/setup and we had some waiting from the launchpad side as well09:15
seb128GunnarHj, thanks for the perseverance and all the naging ;-)09:15
GunnarHjseb128: np09:18
GunnarHjseb128: Wouldn't it be a good idea that somebody else got familiar with those tools? Previously it was only Martin, now it's only you. Somebody who could serve as a backup would be good IMO.09:21
seb128GunnarHj, yes, that's needed, I plan to tide up a bit and write down what I learnt and do some introduction to others, maybe you & L_aney09:27
GunnarHjseb128: Sounds good.09:28
seb128great09:29
darkxsthey seb128, GunnarHj09:48
GunnarHjHi darkxst! ( I thought you were going to say something more. :) )10:08
Mirvbye bye everyone, I'll stay on #ubuntu-devel though10:16
* Laney hugs Mirv10:17
sil2100Mirv: hope we'll still see you around doing Qt uploads!10:17
* Mirv hugs Laney10:18
Mirvsil2100: ahh! well I do like that, but I think I could use a break from that still ;) especially as new things will probably start to occupy my time, and Qt is not easy or fast.10:18
* didrocks hugs Mirv too10:19
* sil2100 hugs Mirv 10:19
* Mirv hugs everyone10:20
greyback:(10:40
jbichagood morning11:46
seb128hey jbicha11:54
darkxstGunnarHj, still tacking shit internet here, but I will try sort out lang pack stuff over the eater weekend12:20
GunnarHjdarkxst: I have been away for a while... What is it that remains to be sorted out?12:21
darkxstGunnarHj, some sort of what-provides locale support in aptcc12:23
darkxstI realise its incredibly late in the cycles to be doing this kind of stuff12:24
GunnarHjdarkxst: ok12:25
jbichait's just early for the next cycle :)12:26
darkxstjbicha, sure, bit beyond what would normally be accepted for SRU though12:26
darkxstbut is a pretty major bug that shouldnt affect/overlap with other flavours12:27
jbichathe bad part is PK is shipped by all flavors but we'll just have to see what it looks like12:28
jbichadarkxst: did you see LP: #1673453 it's an interesting idea; but I don't know if we'd actually do it or not12:30
ubot5Launchpad bug 1673453 in Ubuntu GNOME "Use gnome-initial-setup to replace 2nd half of ubiquity" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/167345312:30
darkxstjbicha, but no one else uses what-provides "locale"12:30
jbicharight12:31
darkxstjbicha, that will break the OEM preseed stuff12:33
darkxstwhich atleast vmware uses12:34
darkxstnot sure if there are other OEM's installing UBuntu GNOME on hardware12:34
jbichawell System76 obviously will be: http://ryanleesipes.me/return-home-to-gnome/12:35
jbichaoh I thought we were in #ubuntu-gnome but ok12:38
darkxstjbicha, in the new future, a transition to gnome-initial-setup would make sense, but how does work without breaking all the preseed stuff?12:41
seb128jbicha, you call "Ubuntu GNOME" the flavor or Ubuntu with GNOME as a desktop here?12:43
jbichacould you rephrase that?12:44
seb128jbicha, you say system76 is going to install "Ubuntu GNOME", do you mean instead of Ubuntu?12:45
seb128I'm not sure I parsed correctly what you said12:45
seb128nor that I understood that from the blog you mentioned12:45
jbichaseb128: my understanding is that system76 is looking at shipping Ubuntu 17.1012:46
seb128k12:46
seb128but Tim was asking about Ubuntu GNOME no?12:46
seb128that's a bit of confusing now if both ship the same desktop :p12:46
willcookeI think they were just saying that they're looking forward to shipping GNOME instead of Unity12:47
jbichaseb128: right, it's confusing, Ubuntu GNOME will be putting out an announcement this week12:47
seb128yeah, that was my understanding too12:47
seb128anyway to go to the topic12:47
seb128we didn't discuss using gnome-initial-setup yet for Ubuntu12:47
seb128we might stick to ubiquity with oem mode12:47
darkxstseb128, no, I was saying switching to gnome-initial-setup will break preseed12:47
jbichabut, basically there does not look like there's a need for a separate Ubuntu GNOME after 17.0412:47
seb128right12:48
seb128I just want to point that some of the tech choices are still to be discussed12:48
jbichayes, of course12:48
seb128like ubiquity-oem-mode vs gnome-initial-setup12:48
jbichaI thought it would be interesting if dar_kxst experiment with trying out gnome-initial-setup's New User mode12:48
seb128right12:49
seb128I was mostly replying to your "system76 will use it"12:49
jbichabut Ubuntu has so much work in the next 12 months that it doesn't look like something we'll be ready for before 18.04 LTS12:49
seb128which they might not if we don't pick it for Ubuntu Desktop and that's what they stick to12:49
seb128anyway, lot of things to look forward working together ;-)12:50
seb128we should have some meetings at the start of next cycles12:50
seb128cycle12:50
jbichayes, lots of big and small decisions to make12:51
darkxstseb128, yes definately or sooner12:51
seb128not sooner I think12:51
seb128need to get zesty out this week12:52
seb128and some people are being laid off as we talk12:52
seb128so it's not exactly the perfect timing12:52
jbichayes, it's a rough week :(12:52
GunnarHjWill there be a 17.10? Things might be easier to handle without it...12:52
darkxstseb128, I am well aware of both those things12:52
darkxstbut have you noticed how much speculation is floating around the interwebs?12:54
Laneywe're not in a position to address things12:56
Laneysorry to the interwebs12:56
GunnarHjdarkxst: As regards bug #1631750, Ubuntu Budgie is also affected, but I think the decided to seed language-selector-gnome as a workaround. But yes, it's an ugly bug.13:02
ubot5bug 1631750 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Language installation doesn't work in Ubuntu GNOME 16.10 Settings app" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163175013:02
darkxstwell let us know when you are ready! of we can somehow swing a meeting with most of UBuntu GNOME and UBuntu Desktop and sadbfl to iron out the details13:03
jbichayes, Budgie 17.04 includes language-selector-gnome13:03
Laneydarkxst: sure, there's just way too much stuff going on right now13:05
Laneya little bit of understanding/patience please13:05
Laney:)13:08
darkxstLaney we could have had plenty of time to sort this out before it went public, but no it happened in reverse13:12
LaneyDude :/13:13
darkxstsorry, wasnt aware how it happened at your end13:14
Laneynm13:20
xnoxLaney, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ukui-session-manager/+bug/168184813:37
ubot5Ubuntu bug 1681848 in ukui-session-manager (Ubuntu) "Qt4 themes are not integrated due to missing environment variable" [Undecided,New]13:37
xnoxi hope kylin devs monitor those bugs13:37
jbichaxnox: you can also ask in #ubuntukylin-devel13:38
cyphermoxxnox: pretty sure they do, I thought I discussed that before with $someone13:40
xnoxah, cool.13:42
xnoxwell still there in 17.04 iso testing13:42
a1fahello.. what are the default Unity synclient settings for Palm detection?14:48
a1fasynclient | grep Palm14:48
a1faanyone?15:08
qenghoa1fa:   PalmDetect              = 115:15
a1faqengho: how about width15:26
a1faand Z15:26
qenghoa1fa: MinWidth 10, MinZ 20015:27
a1fathank you15:27
a1fathats what i have as well and its not working well :(15:28
qenghoa1fa: I have noticed some xinput wonkiness in the last week or so. Palm detection, edge scrolling, and tap all in states that were different and unwanted.15:34
b4nTrevinho: I'm trying to build unity on Ubuntu 17.04 to test some stuff, but I get a build failure with a simple dpkg-buildpackage -b -us -uc: error: variable 'it' set but not used.  No custom CFLAGS nowhere15:34
b4nTrevinho: BTW, I tried to do the same a few weeks (days?) ago, and it built fine then, but a few tests failed15:34
qenghoI set "Synaptics Palm Detection" 1 /// "Synaptics Edge Scrolling" 0 0 0 /// "Synaptics Tap Time" 015:34
b4n(related to thumbialing I think)15:34
qenghoa1fa: ^15:34
b4nis there a way around that?15:34
qenghoa1fa: I assumed it was just me, in my mongrel X/Z machine.15:35
a1fawell i'm preping for unity exodus15:36
a1faand gnome is sucking15:36
a1fadont care much for unity8.. unity7 is the way to go15:37
qenghoa1fa: We're not yanking rugs. Give it time. Use as normal.15:38
a1fai figured i'd get a running start for 18.04; a year to get used to new DE15:40
a1faGNOME3 top bar is so annoying, and it's in the way15:41
tjaaltona1fa: start by porting the mouse capplet to libinput15:41
tjaaltonthere's even a bug for thay15:42
tjaaltonthat15:42
a1fai'm an end user - not a programmer15:42
tjaaltonaha15:42
qenghoa1fa: It's also a year before Ubuntu says "this is good enough for Unity users to switch to".15:42
jdstrandjbicha, seb128: hey, you probably saw that I updated gnome-terminal yesterday. if not, fyi, I did. I updated lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-terminal/ubuntu too. let me know if I should do anything else (it's been a while since I updated a desktop team branch)15:42
a1faright15:42
qenghoGnome3 is great. I use it. But Unity users expect Unity. We'll make a nice pathway in that year.15:43
jbichajdstrand: thanks, it looks good!15:43
a1faqengho: cant wait to see it15:45
a1faqengho: hopefully its identical experience to unity15:45
a1fajust hoping to find an extension that deals with this top bar15:45
a1fadash to dock is awesome15:45
a1fanow if one could only fix the awful top bar15:46
jdstrandseb128: curious if you updated the desktop snap part for the wayland socket yet15:46
seb128jdstrand, no sorry, I've been doing iso testing and talking to people since yesterday16:17
seb128trying to get that done this week still though16:18
seb128but feel free to have a look yourself if you are blocked/want that handled now16:19
jbichaa1fa: it will definitely not be identical to Unity16:20
jdstrandseb128: not blocked, just curious16:25
seb128jdstrand, k, so it's not done yet, I'm probably going to have a look on thursday (I was going to say or friday but I just remembered this w.e was starting on friday here)16:26
jdstrandseb128: thanks16:29
a1fajbicha: close to it?16:29
seb128jdstrand, yw!16:29
a1fajbicha: i got it very close, except: the minimize, maximize, close is on the wrong side. and top bar is a b...16:29
jbichaa1fa: you're probably better off thinking that it will be substantially different than Unity16:30
a1fasomewhat disappointing16:30
jbichaa1fa: we aren't discussing the details of that this week though16:30
a1fawe are or arent?16:31
a1fawhat is being discussed this week?16:31
jbichawe are not16:31
jbichathis week, we are working on releasing a great Ubuntu 17.0416:31
a1faalready running 17.04 ;X16:32
jbichaSweetshark: LibreOffice was featured in this announcement: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/11/snap-support-lands-in-fedora-24-25-2616:34
=== JanC_ is now known as JanC
=== alan_g is now known as alan_g|EOD
GunnarHjjbicha: I noticed the bug about updating gnome-user-docs. It's probably far to early to ask, but still: Do you have any early thoughts about how to deal with desktop docs going forward? Is there a suitable model for customizing gnome-user-docs for Ubuntu specific stuff? I suppose that ubuntu-docs in its current shape will be obsolete.17:55
jbichaGunnarHj: yes, it's a bit early for that17:58
GunnarHjjbicha: Ok, that's fair enough for now. Time will tell, I suppose.17:59
jbichaGunnarHj: see the very bottom of http://projectmallard.org/about/learn/if18:02
jbichait's possible to get Ubuntu-specific wording into gnome-user-docs upstream if GNOME doesn't mind18:02
jbichathat won't work for customizing page titles of screenshots though18:03
jbicha*or screenshots18:03
jbichaUbuntu 18.04 LTS might be similar enough to GNOME that it would be fine to just ship the GNOME docs18:04
GunnarHjjbicha: If I recall correctly, GNOME did mind about such conditionals.18:05
jbichaGunnarHj: well it was touch before because Unity was dramatically different than GNOME and it just cluttered up the docs for the docs people and translators18:05
jbicha*tough18:05
jbichahopefully, Ubuntu's desktop should be more clear when 17.10 is released so you will have some months before 18.04 LTS18:06
GunnarHjjbicha: There may remain other things beyond modifications of existing pages.18:07
GunnarHjjbicha: Will Ubuntu 17.10 be GNOME?18:08
jbichayes18:09
GunnarHjjbicha: Ok, that will give us time to fix things before 18.04.18:09
jbichaGunnarHj: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-getting-started-docs/tree/gnome-help/C/gs-browse-web.page18:22
jbichathat's a little ridiculous because the number of distros that don't ship Firefox by default has got to be smaller18:23
GunnarHjjbicha: Yeah.. But it shows that conditionals is indeed in use.18:24

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