[07:58] <allison[m]> good morning, desktoppers, and happy tuesday
[08:00] <Laney> hey
[08:00] <Laney> hi allison[m]
[08:00] <allison[m]> hey laney
[08:00] <Laney> sup
[08:00] <didrocks> hey allison[m], Laney
[08:00] <allison[m]> not a lot.  eating breakfast, and enjoying a coffee
[08:00] <allison[m]> mascha is working from home today
[08:00] <seb128> hey desktopers
[08:01] <seb128> good morning Laney allison[m] didrocks
[08:01] <Laney> hey seb128
[08:01] <allison[m]> hi seb128 :)
[08:01] <Laney> how's it going
[08:02] <allison[m]> mmm.  nice greasy breakfast always helps with the hangover :)
[08:02] <allison[m]> now, you might ask why i was hungover... as if i was drinking quite a lot on a monday night, in a seemingly irresponsible way
[08:02] <allison[m]> but there is a simple answer for why:
[08:02] <allison[m]> because i can  :)
[08:04] <Laney> meow
[08:04] <seb128> Laney, could have done with drinking some beers in London with you yesterday :-/
[08:05] <didrocks> yeah, I only went with sparkling wine…
[08:05] <Laney> seb128: indeed
[08:05] <Laney> didrocks: we usually have that for celebrations :P
[08:05] <allison[m]> ← kölsch, of course
[08:05] <flexiondotorg> Morning Laney seb128 allison[m] didrocks
[08:06] <allison[m]> flexiondotorg: hey :)
[08:06] <didrocks> morning flexiondotorg
[08:06] <seb128> hey flexiondotorg
[08:09] <allison[m]> so uh
[08:09] <allison[m]> meeting today?
[08:10] <seb128> no
[08:10] <seb128> cf emails from willcooke yesterday morning
[08:11] <seb128> the "week commencing ..." one
[08:11] <allison[m]> ah.  too bad.
[08:11] <seb128> yeah :-/
[08:12] <allison[m]> might have been a nice exercise...
[08:12] <allison[m]> we can do it anyway :)
[08:12] <seb128> we can still do an informal hangout or such if some want
[08:12] <allison[m]> i think i'm going to go for a walk today :)
[08:13] <Laney> allison gump
[08:13] <seb128> how is the weather?
[08:13] <allison[m]> overcast, but supposed to clear up
[08:13] <seb128> it's less nice that on sunday here but still decent
[08:13] <seb128> w.e is going to be grey/rainy though :-/
[08:15] <allison[m]> "...and that's what I did.  I walked clear across the federal state of Germany.  For no particular reason.  And when I got to Poland, I figured, since I'd gone this far, I might as well just keep on going..."
[08:16] <seb128> they hello to robert_ancell from me when you get there
[08:16] <allison[m]> :)
[08:16] <seb128> you don't mind a bit of swimming right? ;-)
[08:16] <allison[m]> the forrest formula says that i need to turn around if i hit an ocean
[08:21] <andyrock> morning
[08:29] <seb128> hey andyrock, how are you?
[08:30] <andyrock> seb128: with a bit of cold but nothing that serious, what about you?
[08:30] <seb128> andyrock, bit of headache but ok otherwise I think
[08:31] <seb128> not an happy week still though
[08:31] <flexiondotorg> Monring andyrock
[08:31] <andyrock> morning flexiondotorg
[08:31] <andyrock> seb128: :(
[09:06] <GunnarHj> seb128: Looks like you didn't pick the latest langpack tarball yesterday, after all.
[09:06] <seb128> waaat?
[09:07] <seb128> I so did
[09:07] <GunnarHj> seb128: The package name includes 20170404.
[09:08] <seb128> see https://launchpadlibrarian.net/315159105/language-pack-de-base_1%3A17.04+20170321_1%3A17.04+20170404.diff.gz
[09:08] <seb128> +"X-Launchpad-Export-Date: 2017-04-04 13:01+0000\n"
[09:09] <GunnarHj> seb128: The latest is from April 7.
[09:09] <seb128> hum, dunno what happened then :-/
[09:09] <seb128> I'm not familiar enough with those jobs
[09:09] <seb128> we either ask the release team if we can do another round today
[09:10] <seb128> or just declare that it's fine and deal with the extra translations as a SRU
[09:10] <GunnarHj> seb128: Let's go for the latter. Probably the difference is minimal.
[09:10] <seb128> yeah it's likely
[09:10] <seb128> sorry about that
[09:10] <seb128> I'm familiar with most of the process now so we do better next cycle
[09:13] <GunnarHj> seb128: Maybe you should change "Language pack base" at https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/zesty/+language-packs to the one you picked. That way I think the system will generate delta packages going forward.
[09:13] <seb128> GunnarHj, done
[09:14] <GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, guess we are done with langpacks for this cycle then. :)
[09:15] <seb128> GunnarHj, yeah, sorry that it was such a bumpy road, took me some time to get familiar with the tools/setup and we had some waiting from the launchpad side as well
[09:15] <seb128> GunnarHj, thanks for the perseverance and all the naging ;-)
[09:18] <GunnarHj> seb128: np
[09:21] <GunnarHj> seb128: Wouldn't it be a good idea that somebody else got familiar with those tools? Previously it was only Martin, now it's only you. Somebody who could serve as a backup would be good IMO.
[09:27] <seb128> GunnarHj, yes, that's needed, I plan to tide up a bit and write down what I learnt and do some introduction to others, maybe you & L_aney
[09:28] <GunnarHj> seb128: Sounds good.
[09:29] <seb128> great
[09:48] <darkxst> hey seb128, GunnarHj
[10:08] <GunnarHj> Hi darkxst! ( I thought you were going to say something more. :) )
[10:16] <Mirv> bye bye everyone, I'll stay on #ubuntu-devel though
[10:17]  * Laney hugs Mirv
[10:17] <sil2100> Mirv: hope we'll still see you around doing Qt uploads!
[10:18]  * Mirv hugs Laney
[10:18] <Mirv> sil2100: ahh! well I do like that, but I think I could use a break from that still ;) especially as new things will probably start to occupy my time, and Qt is not easy or fast.
[10:19]  * didrocks hugs Mirv too
[10:19]  * sil2100 hugs Mirv 
[10:20]  * Mirv hugs everyone
[10:40] <greyback> :(
[11:46] <jbicha> good morning
[11:54] <seb128> hey jbicha
[12:20] <darkxst> GunnarHj, still tacking shit internet here, but I will try sort out lang pack stuff over the eater weekend
[12:21] <GunnarHj> darkxst: I have been away for a while... What is it that remains to be sorted out?
[12:23] <darkxst> GunnarHj, some sort of what-provides locale support in aptcc
[12:24] <darkxst> I realise its incredibly late in the cycles to be doing this kind of stuff
[12:25] <GunnarHj> darkxst: ok
[12:26] <jbicha> it's just early for the next cycle :)
[12:26] <darkxst> jbicha, sure, bit beyond what would normally be accepted for SRU though
[12:27] <darkxst> but is a pretty major bug that shouldnt affect/overlap with other flavours
[12:28] <jbicha> the bad part is PK is shipped by all flavors but we'll just have to see what it looks like
[12:30] <jbicha> darkxst: did you see LP: #1673453 it's an interesting idea; but I don't know if we'd actually do it or not
[12:30] <darkxst> jbicha, but no one else uses what-provides "locale"
[12:31] <jbicha> right
[12:33] <darkxst> jbicha, that will break the OEM preseed stuff
[12:34] <darkxst> which atleast vmware uses
[12:34] <darkxst> not sure if there are other OEM's installing UBuntu GNOME on hardware
[12:35] <jbicha> well System76 obviously will be: http://ryanleesipes.me/return-home-to-gnome/
[12:38] <jbicha> oh I thought we were in #ubuntu-gnome but ok
[12:41] <darkxst> jbicha, in the new future, a transition to gnome-initial-setup would make sense, but how does work without breaking all the preseed stuff?
[12:43] <seb128> jbicha, you call "Ubuntu GNOME" the flavor or Ubuntu with GNOME as a desktop here?
[12:44] <jbicha> could you rephrase that?
[12:45] <seb128> jbicha, you say system76 is going to install "Ubuntu GNOME", do you mean instead of Ubuntu?
[12:45] <seb128> I'm not sure I parsed correctly what you said
[12:45] <seb128> nor that I understood that from the blog you mentioned
[12:46] <jbicha> seb128: my understanding is that system76 is looking at shipping Ubuntu 17.10
[12:46] <seb128> k
[12:46] <seb128> but Tim was asking about Ubuntu GNOME no?
[12:46] <seb128> that's a bit of confusing now if both ship the same desktop :p
[12:47] <willcooke> I think they were just saying that they're looking forward to shipping GNOME instead of Unity
[12:47] <jbicha> seb128: right, it's confusing, Ubuntu GNOME will be putting out an announcement this week
[12:47] <seb128> yeah, that was my understanding too
[12:47] <seb128> anyway to go to the topic
[12:47] <seb128> we didn't discuss using gnome-initial-setup yet for Ubuntu
[12:47] <seb128> we might stick to ubiquity with oem mode
[12:47] <darkxst> seb128, no, I was saying switching to gnome-initial-setup will break preseed
[12:47] <jbicha> but, basically there does not look like there's a need for a separate Ubuntu GNOME after 17.04
[12:48] <seb128> right
[12:48] <seb128> I just want to point that some of the tech choices are still to be discussed
[12:48] <jbicha> yes, of course
[12:48] <seb128> like ubiquity-oem-mode vs gnome-initial-setup
[12:48] <jbicha> I thought it would be interesting if dar_kxst experiment with trying out gnome-initial-setup's New User mode
[12:49] <seb128> right
[12:49] <seb128> I was mostly replying to your "system76 will use it"
[12:49] <jbicha> but Ubuntu has so much work in the next 12 months that it doesn't look like something we'll be ready for before 18.04 LTS
[12:49] <seb128> which they might not if we don't pick it for Ubuntu Desktop and that's what they stick to
[12:50] <seb128> anyway, lot of things to look forward working together ;-)
[12:50] <seb128> we should have some meetings at the start of next cycles
[12:50] <seb128> cycle
[12:51] <jbicha> yes, lots of big and small decisions to make
[12:51] <darkxst> seb128, yes definately or sooner
[12:51] <seb128> not sooner I think
[12:52] <seb128> need to get zesty out this week
[12:52] <seb128> and some people are being laid off as we talk
[12:52] <seb128> so it's not exactly the perfect timing
[12:52] <jbicha> yes, it's a rough week :(
[12:52] <GunnarHj> Will there be a 17.10? Things might be easier to handle without it...
[12:52] <darkxst> seb128, I am well aware of both those things
[12:54] <darkxst> but have you noticed how much speculation is floating around the interwebs?
[12:56] <Laney> we're not in a position to address things
[12:56] <Laney> sorry to the interwebs
[13:02] <GunnarHj> darkxst: As regards bug #1631750, Ubuntu Budgie is also affected, but I think the decided to seed language-selector-gnome as a workaround. But yes, it's an ugly bug.
[13:03] <darkxst> well let us know when you are ready! of we can somehow swing a meeting with most of UBuntu GNOME and UBuntu Desktop and sadbfl to iron out the details
[13:03] <jbicha> yes, Budgie 17.04 includes language-selector-gnome
[13:05] <Laney> darkxst: sure, there's just way too much stuff going on right now
[13:05] <Laney> a little bit of understanding/patience please
[13:08] <Laney> :)
[13:12] <darkxst> Laney we could have had plenty of time to sort this out before it went public, but no it happened in reverse
[13:13] <Laney> Dude :/
[13:14] <darkxst> sorry, wasnt aware how it happened at your end
[13:20] <Laney> nm
[13:37] <xnox> Laney, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ukui-session-manager/+bug/1681848
[13:37] <xnox> i hope kylin devs monitor those bugs
[13:38] <jbicha> xnox: you can also ask in #ubuntukylin-devel
[13:40] <cyphermox> xnox: pretty sure they do, I thought I discussed that before with $someone
[13:42] <xnox> ah, cool.
[13:42] <xnox> well still there in 17.04 iso testing
[14:48] <a1fa> hello.. what are the default Unity synclient settings for Palm detection?
[14:48] <a1fa> synclient | grep Palm
[15:08] <a1fa> anyone?
[15:15] <qengho> a1fa:   PalmDetect              = 1
[15:26] <a1fa> qengho: how about width
[15:26] <a1fa> and Z
[15:27] <qengho> a1fa: MinWidth 10, MinZ 200
[15:27] <a1fa> thank you
[15:28] <a1fa> thats what i have as well and its not working well :(
[15:34] <qengho> a1fa: I have noticed some xinput wonkiness in the last week or so. Palm detection, edge scrolling, and tap all in states that were different and unwanted.
[15:34] <b4n> Trevinho: I'm trying to build unity on Ubuntu 17.04 to test some stuff, but I get a build failure with a simple dpkg-buildpackage -b -us -uc: error: variable 'it' set but not used.  No custom CFLAGS nowhere
[15:34] <b4n> Trevinho: BTW, I tried to do the same a few weeks (days?) ago, and it built fine then, but a few tests failed
[15:34] <qengho> I set "Synaptics Palm Detection" 1 /// "Synaptics Edge Scrolling" 0 0 0 /// "Synaptics Tap Time" 0
[15:34] <b4n> (related to thumbialing I think)
[15:34] <qengho> a1fa: ^
[15:34] <b4n> is there a way around that?
[15:35] <qengho> a1fa: I assumed it was just me, in my mongrel X/Z machine.
[15:36] <a1fa> well i'm preping for unity exodus
[15:36] <a1fa> and gnome is sucking
[15:37] <a1fa> dont care much for unity8.. unity7 is the way to go
[15:38] <qengho> a1fa: We're not yanking rugs. Give it time. Use as normal.
[15:40] <a1fa> i figured i'd get a running start for 18.04; a year to get used to new DE
[15:41] <a1fa> GNOME3 top bar is so annoying, and it's in the way
[15:41] <tjaalton> a1fa: start by porting the mouse capplet to libinput
[15:42] <tjaalton> there's even a bug for thay
[15:42] <tjaalton> that
[15:42] <a1fa> i'm an end user - not a programmer
[15:42] <tjaalton> aha
[15:42] <qengho> a1fa: It's also a year before Ubuntu says "this is good enough for Unity users to switch to".
[15:42] <jdstrand> jbicha, seb128: hey, you probably saw that I updated gnome-terminal yesterday. if not, fyi, I did. I updated lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-terminal/ubuntu too. let me know if I should do anything else (it's been a while since I updated a desktop team branch)
[15:42] <a1fa> right
[15:43] <qengho> Gnome3 is great. I use it. But Unity users expect Unity. We'll make a nice pathway in that year.
[15:43] <jbicha> jdstrand: thanks, it looks good!
[15:45] <a1fa> qengho: cant wait to see it
[15:45] <a1fa> qengho: hopefully its identical experience to unity
[15:45] <a1fa> just hoping to find an extension that deals with this top bar
[15:45] <a1fa> dash to dock is awesome
[15:46] <a1fa> now if one could only fix the awful top bar
[15:46] <jdstrand> seb128: curious if you updated the desktop snap part for the wayland socket yet
[16:17] <seb128> jdstrand, no sorry, I've been doing iso testing and talking to people since yesterday
[16:18] <seb128> trying to get that done this week still though
[16:19] <seb128> but feel free to have a look yourself if you are blocked/want that handled now
[16:20] <jbicha> a1fa: it will definitely not be identical to Unity
[16:25] <jdstrand> seb128: not blocked, just curious
[16:26] <seb128> jdstrand, k, so it's not done yet, I'm probably going to have a look on thursday (I was going to say or friday but I just remembered this w.e was starting on friday here)
[16:29] <jdstrand> seb128: thanks
[16:29] <a1fa> jbicha: close to it?
[16:29] <seb128> jdstrand, yw!
[16:29] <a1fa> jbicha: i got it very close, except: the minimize, maximize, close is on the wrong side. and top bar is a b...
[16:30] <jbicha> a1fa: you're probably better off thinking that it will be substantially different than Unity
[16:30] <a1fa> somewhat disappointing
[16:30] <jbicha> a1fa: we aren't discussing the details of that this week though
[16:31] <a1fa> we are or arent?
[16:31] <a1fa> what is being discussed this week?
[16:31] <jbicha> we are not
[16:31] <jbicha> this week, we are working on releasing a great Ubuntu 17.04
[16:32] <a1fa> already running 17.04 ;X
[16:34] <jbicha> Sweetshark: LibreOffice was featured in this announcement: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/11/snap-support-lands-in-fedora-24-25-26
[17:55] <GunnarHj> jbicha: I noticed the bug about updating gnome-user-docs. It's probably far to early to ask, but still: Do you have any early thoughts about how to deal with desktop docs going forward? Is there a suitable model for customizing gnome-user-docs for Ubuntu specific stuff? I suppose that ubuntu-docs in its current shape will be obsolete.
[17:58] <jbicha> GunnarHj: yes, it's a bit early for that
[17:59] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Ok, that's fair enough for now. Time will tell, I suppose.
[18:02] <jbicha> GunnarHj: see the very bottom of http://projectmallard.org/about/learn/if
[18:02] <jbicha> it's possible to get Ubuntu-specific wording into gnome-user-docs upstream if GNOME doesn't mind
[18:03] <jbicha> that won't work for customizing page titles of screenshots though
[18:03] <jbicha> *or screenshots
[18:04] <jbicha> Ubuntu 18.04 LTS might be similar enough to GNOME that it would be fine to just ship the GNOME docs
[18:05] <GunnarHj> jbicha: If I recall correctly, GNOME did mind about such conditionals.
[18:05] <jbicha> GunnarHj: well it was touch before because Unity was dramatically different than GNOME and it just cluttered up the docs for the docs people and translators
[18:05] <jbicha> *tough
[18:06] <jbicha> hopefully, Ubuntu's desktop should be more clear when 17.10 is released so you will have some months before 18.04 LTS
[18:07] <GunnarHj> jbicha: There may remain other things beyond modifications of existing pages.
[18:08] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Will Ubuntu 17.10 be GNOME?
[18:09] <jbicha> yes
[18:09] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Ok, that will give us time to fix things before 18.04.
[18:22] <jbicha> GunnarHj: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-getting-started-docs/tree/gnome-help/C/gs-browse-web.page
[18:23] <jbicha> that's a little ridiculous because the number of distros that don't ship Firefox by default has got to be smaller
[18:24] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Yeah.. But it shows that conditionals is indeed in use.