[07:58] good morning, desktoppers, and happy tuesday [08:00] hey [08:00] hi allison[m] [08:00] hey laney [08:00] sup [08:00] hey allison[m], Laney [08:00] not a lot. eating breakfast, and enjoying a coffee [08:00] mascha is working from home today [08:00] hey desktopers [08:01] good morning Laney allison[m] didrocks [08:01] hey seb128 [08:01] hi seb128 :) [08:01] how's it going [08:02] mmm. nice greasy breakfast always helps with the hangover :) [08:02] now, you might ask why i was hungover... as if i was drinking quite a lot on a monday night, in a seemingly irresponsible way [08:02] but there is a simple answer for why: [08:02] because i can :) [08:04] meow [08:04] Laney, could have done with drinking some beers in London with you yesterday :-/ [08:05] yeah, I only went with sparkling wine… [08:05] seb128: indeed [08:05] didrocks: we usually have that for celebrations :P [08:05] ← kölsch, of course [08:05] Morning Laney seb128 allison[m] didrocks [08:06] flexiondotorg: hey :) [08:06] morning flexiondotorg [08:06] hey flexiondotorg [08:09] so uh [08:09] meeting today? [08:10] no [08:10] cf emails from willcooke yesterday morning [08:11] the "week commencing ..." one [08:11] ah. too bad. [08:11] yeah :-/ [08:12] might have been a nice exercise... [08:12] we can do it anyway :) [08:12] we can still do an informal hangout or such if some want [08:12] i think i'm going to go for a walk today :) [08:13] allison gump [08:13] how is the weather? [08:13] overcast, but supposed to clear up [08:13] it's less nice that on sunday here but still decent [08:13] w.e is going to be grey/rainy though :-/ [08:15] "...and that's what I did. I walked clear across the federal state of Germany. For no particular reason. And when I got to Poland, I figured, since I'd gone this far, I might as well just keep on going..." [08:16] they hello to robert_ancell from me when you get there [08:16] :) [08:16] you don't mind a bit of swimming right? ;-) [08:16] the forrest formula says that i need to turn around if i hit an ocean [08:21] morning [08:29] hey andyrock, how are you? [08:30] seb128: with a bit of cold but nothing that serious, what about you? [08:30] andyrock, bit of headache but ok otherwise I think [08:31] not an happy week still though [08:31] Monring andyrock [08:31] morning flexiondotorg [08:31] seb128: :( [09:06] seb128: Looks like you didn't pick the latest langpack tarball yesterday, after all. [09:06] waaat? [09:07] I so did [09:07] seb128: The package name includes 20170404. [09:08] see https://launchpadlibrarian.net/315159105/language-pack-de-base_1%3A17.04+20170321_1%3A17.04+20170404.diff.gz [09:08] +"X-Launchpad-Export-Date: 2017-04-04 13:01+0000\n" [09:09] seb128: The latest is from April 7. [09:09] hum, dunno what happened then :-/ [09:09] I'm not familiar enough with those jobs [09:09] we either ask the release team if we can do another round today [09:10] or just declare that it's fine and deal with the extra translations as a SRU [09:10] seb128: Let's go for the latter. Probably the difference is minimal. [09:10] yeah it's likely [09:10] sorry about that [09:10] I'm familiar with most of the process now so we do better next cycle [09:13] seb128: Maybe you should change "Language pack base" at https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/zesty/+language-packs to the one you picked. That way I think the system will generate delta packages going forward. [09:13] GunnarHj, done [09:14] seb128: Ok, guess we are done with langpacks for this cycle then. :) [09:15] GunnarHj, yeah, sorry that it was such a bumpy road, took me some time to get familiar with the tools/setup and we had some waiting from the launchpad side as well [09:15] GunnarHj, thanks for the perseverance and all the naging ;-) [09:18] seb128: np [09:21] seb128: Wouldn't it be a good idea that somebody else got familiar with those tools? Previously it was only Martin, now it's only you. Somebody who could serve as a backup would be good IMO. [09:27] GunnarHj, yes, that's needed, I plan to tide up a bit and write down what I learnt and do some introduction to others, maybe you & L_aney [09:28] seb128: Sounds good. [09:29] great [09:48] hey seb128, GunnarHj [10:08] Hi darkxst! ( I thought you were going to say something more. :) ) [10:16] bye bye everyone, I'll stay on #ubuntu-devel though [10:17] * Laney hugs Mirv [10:17] Mirv: hope we'll still see you around doing Qt uploads! [10:18] * Mirv hugs Laney [10:18] sil2100: ahh! well I do like that, but I think I could use a break from that still ;) especially as new things will probably start to occupy my time, and Qt is not easy or fast. [10:19] * didrocks hugs Mirv too [10:19] * sil2100 hugs Mirv [10:20] * Mirv hugs everyone [10:40] :( [11:46] good morning [11:54] hey jbicha [12:20] GunnarHj, still tacking shit internet here, but I will try sort out lang pack stuff over the eater weekend [12:21] darkxst: I have been away for a while... What is it that remains to be sorted out? [12:23] GunnarHj, some sort of what-provides locale support in aptcc [12:24] I realise its incredibly late in the cycles to be doing this kind of stuff [12:25] darkxst: ok [12:26] it's just early for the next cycle :) [12:26] jbicha, sure, bit beyond what would normally be accepted for SRU though [12:27] but is a pretty major bug that shouldnt affect/overlap with other flavours [12:28] the bad part is PK is shipped by all flavors but we'll just have to see what it looks like [12:30] darkxst: did you see LP: #1673453 it's an interesting idea; but I don't know if we'd actually do it or not [12:30] Launchpad bug 1673453 in Ubuntu GNOME "Use gnome-initial-setup to replace 2nd half of ubiquity" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1673453 [12:30] jbicha, but no one else uses what-provides "locale" [12:31] right [12:33] jbicha, that will break the OEM preseed stuff [12:34] which atleast vmware uses [12:34] not sure if there are other OEM's installing UBuntu GNOME on hardware [12:35] well System76 obviously will be: http://ryanleesipes.me/return-home-to-gnome/ [12:38] oh I thought we were in #ubuntu-gnome but ok [12:41] jbicha, in the new future, a transition to gnome-initial-setup would make sense, but how does work without breaking all the preseed stuff? [12:43] jbicha, you call "Ubuntu GNOME" the flavor or Ubuntu with GNOME as a desktop here? [12:44] could you rephrase that? [12:45] jbicha, you say system76 is going to install "Ubuntu GNOME", do you mean instead of Ubuntu? [12:45] I'm not sure I parsed correctly what you said [12:45] nor that I understood that from the blog you mentioned [12:46] seb128: my understanding is that system76 is looking at shipping Ubuntu 17.10 [12:46] k [12:46] but Tim was asking about Ubuntu GNOME no? [12:46] that's a bit of confusing now if both ship the same desktop :p [12:47] I think they were just saying that they're looking forward to shipping GNOME instead of Unity [12:47] seb128: right, it's confusing, Ubuntu GNOME will be putting out an announcement this week [12:47] yeah, that was my understanding too [12:47] anyway to go to the topic [12:47] we didn't discuss using gnome-initial-setup yet for Ubuntu [12:47] we might stick to ubiquity with oem mode [12:47] seb128, no, I was saying switching to gnome-initial-setup will break preseed [12:47] but, basically there does not look like there's a need for a separate Ubuntu GNOME after 17.04 [12:48] right [12:48] I just want to point that some of the tech choices are still to be discussed [12:48] yes, of course [12:48] like ubiquity-oem-mode vs gnome-initial-setup [12:48] I thought it would be interesting if dar_kxst experiment with trying out gnome-initial-setup's New User mode [12:49] right [12:49] I was mostly replying to your "system76 will use it" [12:49] but Ubuntu has so much work in the next 12 months that it doesn't look like something we'll be ready for before 18.04 LTS [12:49] which they might not if we don't pick it for Ubuntu Desktop and that's what they stick to [12:50] anyway, lot of things to look forward working together ;-) [12:50] we should have some meetings at the start of next cycles [12:50] cycle [12:51] yes, lots of big and small decisions to make [12:51] seb128, yes definately or sooner [12:51] not sooner I think [12:52] need to get zesty out this week [12:52] and some people are being laid off as we talk [12:52] so it's not exactly the perfect timing [12:52] yes, it's a rough week :( [12:52] Will there be a 17.10? Things might be easier to handle without it... [12:52] seb128, I am well aware of both those things [12:54] but have you noticed how much speculation is floating around the interwebs? [12:56] we're not in a position to address things [12:56] sorry to the interwebs [13:02] darkxst: As regards bug #1631750, Ubuntu Budgie is also affected, but I think the decided to seed language-selector-gnome as a workaround. But yes, it's an ugly bug. [13:02] bug 1631750 in gnome-control-center (Ubuntu) "Language installation doesn't work in Ubuntu GNOME 16.10 Settings app" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1631750 [13:03] well let us know when you are ready! of we can somehow swing a meeting with most of UBuntu GNOME and UBuntu Desktop and sadbfl to iron out the details [13:03] yes, Budgie 17.04 includes language-selector-gnome [13:05] darkxst: sure, there's just way too much stuff going on right now [13:05] a little bit of understanding/patience please [13:08] :) [13:12] Laney we could have had plenty of time to sort this out before it went public, but no it happened in reverse [13:13] Dude :/ [13:14] sorry, wasnt aware how it happened at your end [13:20] nm [13:37] Laney, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ukui-session-manager/+bug/1681848 [13:37] Ubuntu bug 1681848 in ukui-session-manager (Ubuntu) "Qt4 themes are not integrated due to missing environment variable" [Undecided,New] [13:37] i hope kylin devs monitor those bugs [13:38] xnox: you can also ask in #ubuntukylin-devel [13:40] xnox: pretty sure they do, I thought I discussed that before with $someone [13:42] ah, cool. [13:42] well still there in 17.04 iso testing [14:48] hello.. what are the default Unity synclient settings for Palm detection? [14:48] synclient | grep Palm [15:08] anyone? [15:15] a1fa: PalmDetect = 1 [15:26] qengho: how about width [15:26] and Z [15:27] a1fa: MinWidth 10, MinZ 200 [15:27] thank you [15:28] thats what i have as well and its not working well :( [15:34] a1fa: I have noticed some xinput wonkiness in the last week or so. Palm detection, edge scrolling, and tap all in states that were different and unwanted. [15:34] Trevinho: I'm trying to build unity on Ubuntu 17.04 to test some stuff, but I get a build failure with a simple dpkg-buildpackage -b -us -uc: error: variable 'it' set but not used. No custom CFLAGS nowhere [15:34] Trevinho: BTW, I tried to do the same a few weeks (days?) ago, and it built fine then, but a few tests failed [15:34] I set "Synaptics Palm Detection" 1 /// "Synaptics Edge Scrolling" 0 0 0 /// "Synaptics Tap Time" 0 [15:34] (related to thumbialing I think) [15:34] a1fa: ^ [15:34] is there a way around that? [15:35] a1fa: I assumed it was just me, in my mongrel X/Z machine. [15:36] well i'm preping for unity exodus [15:36] and gnome is sucking [15:37] dont care much for unity8.. unity7 is the way to go [15:38] a1fa: We're not yanking rugs. Give it time. Use as normal. [15:40] i figured i'd get a running start for 18.04; a year to get used to new DE [15:41] GNOME3 top bar is so annoying, and it's in the way [15:41] a1fa: start by porting the mouse capplet to libinput [15:42] there's even a bug for thay [15:42] that [15:42] i'm an end user - not a programmer [15:42] aha [15:42] a1fa: It's also a year before Ubuntu says "this is good enough for Unity users to switch to". [15:42] jbicha, seb128: hey, you probably saw that I updated gnome-terminal yesterday. if not, fyi, I did. I updated lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-terminal/ubuntu too. let me know if I should do anything else (it's been a while since I updated a desktop team branch) [15:42] right [15:43] Gnome3 is great. I use it. But Unity users expect Unity. We'll make a nice pathway in that year. [15:43] jdstrand: thanks, it looks good! [15:45] qengho: cant wait to see it [15:45] qengho: hopefully its identical experience to unity [15:45] just hoping to find an extension that deals with this top bar [15:45] dash to dock is awesome [15:46] now if one could only fix the awful top bar [15:46] seb128: curious if you updated the desktop snap part for the wayland socket yet [16:17] jdstrand, no sorry, I've been doing iso testing and talking to people since yesterday [16:18] trying to get that done this week still though [16:19] but feel free to have a look yourself if you are blocked/want that handled now [16:20] a1fa: it will definitely not be identical to Unity [16:25] seb128: not blocked, just curious [16:26] jdstrand, k, so it's not done yet, I'm probably going to have a look on thursday (I was going to say or friday but I just remembered this w.e was starting on friday here) [16:29] seb128: thanks [16:29] jbicha: close to it? [16:29] jdstrand, yw! [16:29] jbicha: i got it very close, except: the minimize, maximize, close is on the wrong side. and top bar is a b... [16:30] a1fa: you're probably better off thinking that it will be substantially different than Unity [16:30] somewhat disappointing [16:30] a1fa: we aren't discussing the details of that this week though [16:31] we are or arent? [16:31] what is being discussed this week? [16:31] we are not [16:31] this week, we are working on releasing a great Ubuntu 17.04 [16:32] already running 17.04 ;X [16:34] Sweetshark: LibreOffice was featured in this announcement: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/11/snap-support-lands-in-fedora-24-25-26 === JanC_ is now known as JanC === alan_g is now known as alan_g|EOD [17:55] jbicha: I noticed the bug about updating gnome-user-docs. It's probably far to early to ask, but still: Do you have any early thoughts about how to deal with desktop docs going forward? Is there a suitable model for customizing gnome-user-docs for Ubuntu specific stuff? I suppose that ubuntu-docs in its current shape will be obsolete. [17:58] GunnarHj: yes, it's a bit early for that [17:59] jbicha: Ok, that's fair enough for now. Time will tell, I suppose. [18:02] GunnarHj: see the very bottom of http://projectmallard.org/about/learn/if [18:02] it's possible to get Ubuntu-specific wording into gnome-user-docs upstream if GNOME doesn't mind [18:03] that won't work for customizing page titles of screenshots though [18:03] *or screenshots [18:04] Ubuntu 18.04 LTS might be similar enough to GNOME that it would be fine to just ship the GNOME docs [18:05] jbicha: If I recall correctly, GNOME did mind about such conditionals. [18:05] GunnarHj: well it was touch before because Unity was dramatically different than GNOME and it just cluttered up the docs for the docs people and translators [18:05] *tough [18:06] hopefully, Ubuntu's desktop should be more clear when 17.10 is released so you will have some months before 18.04 LTS [18:07] jbicha: There may remain other things beyond modifications of existing pages. [18:08] jbicha: Will Ubuntu 17.10 be GNOME? [18:09] yes [18:09] jbicha: Ok, that will give us time to fix things before 18.04. [18:22] GunnarHj: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-getting-started-docs/tree/gnome-help/C/gs-browse-web.page [18:23] that's a little ridiculous because the number of distros that don't ship Firefox by default has got to be smaller [18:24] jbicha: Yeah.. But it shows that conditionals is indeed in use.