[22:04] <eylul> Ovenwerks you around?
[22:04] <OvenWerks> sort of ... more oval I think
[22:05] <eylul> ok.. what is the final state of controls on 17.04?
[22:05] <eylul> which version do we have?
[22:06] <eylul> my plans for testing kind of went sideways, but trying to prepare release notes
[22:06] <OvenWerks> eylul: one more than last cycle. Almost exactly the same
[22:06] <eylul> ok
[22:06] <eylul> so none of the new UI?
[22:06] <OvenWerks> It also has on the fly cpu goveror changing
[22:06] <OvenWerks> No new GUI
[22:06] <eylul> wait..
[22:06] <OvenWerks> Just one extra check box
[22:07] <eylul> oh ok..
[22:07] <OvenWerks> no tabs or anything though
[22:07] <eylul> so umm "ubuntustudio-controls have now the option to change CPU governor on the fly"
[22:07] <OvenWerks> Ya, it doesn't stay over boot yet
[22:08] <eylul> wait you say it isn't the new UI but..
[22:08] <eylul> from what you say, it is the new UI
[22:08] <eylul> as in the UI you made
[22:08] <eylul> (when I say new UI, I mean the glade file that was created after 16.10 release)
[22:09] <eylul> (not necessarily the details)
[22:09] <OvenWerks> it does not have the GUI with tabs and groups and stuff just one new checkbox
[22:09] <OvenWerks> ok yes then
[22:09] <OvenWerks> It has been tested and works... at least on my machine HW
[22:10] <eylul> awesome
[22:10] <OvenWerks> (as in tested in 17.04 beta)
[22:10] <eylul> *nods*
[22:10] <eylul> so actually it is 
[22:11] <OvenWerks> I keep DL the ISO to test... and when I go to write to the drive... I realize I need to DL the next day :P
[22:12] <eylul> "an experimental version of the ubuntustudio-controls is live"
[22:13] <eylul> heee
[22:13] <eylul> :D
[22:13] <OvenWerks> I don't think that is what we are shipping though
[22:13] <eylul> we are not?
[22:13] <OvenWerks> Did we ever get 32 bit to not ship wine?
[22:13] <eylul> I am not sure...
[22:14] <eylul> quite frankly I have some opinions on that discussion from ML. Wine is useful to anybody using LMMS and needs to be reliant to windows VSTs, but if it destabilizes the system, it destabilizes it, and that's the end of the story really 
[22:15] <OvenWerks> ISO has been built two or three times since. A user can add it after the fact... then it is wine and lmms problem not STudio's
[22:16] <eylul> eh.. true, especially since LMMS can be installed without vst support
[22:17] <eylul> (and that is more or less what we have on by default)
[22:17] <eylul> ok so. new version of krita, new controls (unless it got reverted, I am putting it in for now, we can always remove it tomorrow before release) and..
[22:18] <OvenWerks> I also like having 32 and 64 bit with the same SW on them.
[22:18] <eylul> "wine was removed from the 32bit ISO"
[22:18] <eylul> yeah that's a bit weird to remove it from one side and not the other
[22:18] <OvenWerks> 64bit alreday doesn't have wine
[22:19] <eylul> but 32bit did?
[22:20] <OvenWerks> Ya, the VST server for lmms is 32bit only
[22:20] <eylul> that is separate through, you can install 32bit wine on a 64bit system
[22:20] <OvenWerks> Not that long ago windows was 32bit only.
[22:21] <OvenWerks> we do not want a multi arc ISO!
[22:21] <eylul> I am not THAT young :D
[22:21] <eylul> hhehehe
[22:23] <eylul> wait.. did we also do some cleanup at the ubuntustudio-meta? anything there is visible to the userside?
[22:24] <OvenWerks> Ya, there are now 32bit vst 64bit vst (and hosts too) and to confuse things there is now VST3. LMMS only supports 32 bit VST2
[22:24] <OvenWerks> I am not sure about the metas
[22:24] <eylul> well quite honestly..
[22:25] <eylul> I have yet to come across a vst3 I needed to use. granted, my use of VSTs and LMMS in general is pretty narrow and specific but..
[22:25] <OvenWerks> on the other hand... who would have made those changes?
[22:25] <eylul> I know ross was poking at the bugs
[22:25] <eylul> not sure what happened to them through
[22:27] <krytarik> eylul: "wine was removed from the 32bit ISO" - that didn't work though.
[22:27] <OvenWerks> yes there are a lot of 32bit VST2s.
[22:27] <eylul> Krytarik thanks.. so no changes to wine situation?
[22:27] <krytarik> Nop.
[22:27] <eylul> so..
[22:27] <eylul> umm that goes under known issues... which,...
[22:28] <eylul> what did wine break exactly?
[22:28] <eylul> or is anything broken to note in release notes?
[22:30] <eylul> (also wow, ubuntustudio-graphics is still on proposed. *cringes*, I guess no Krita for this release)
[22:30] <eylul> wait nvm
[22:31] <eylul> *is still confused by launchpad*
[22:31] <krytarik> Hah.
[22:32] <krytarik> Also, some of these are relevant for us too: http://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/17.04/release-notes
[22:32] <eylul> *goes to check
[22:33] <krytarik> I'll mention we don't have 'sgt-launcher' yet - and given the different target group, I think we shouldn't either.
[22:34] <eylul> sgt-launcher?
[22:34] <eylul> (Ok I have no idea which one of these bugs affects us)
[22:34] <krytarik> It's mentioned in their notes - and irrelevant to us.
[22:35] <eylul> oh
[22:36] <eylul> does the installer issue affect us?
[22:36] <eylul> (assumes most of the general issues do)
[22:36] <eylul> (outside the puzzles)
[22:40] <krytarik> Yeah, that's why I specifically mentioned the puzzles thingy.
[22:40] <eylul> ok
[22:43] <eylul> Xfce Indicator Plugin: Label missing from "Clear Known Indicators" dialog does this really affect us? we don't use the same themes and icons
[22:47] <krytarik> Theme not, icons yes, but this is related to the entire button label (including icon) - https://launchpadlibrarian.net/294982464/Screenshot_2016-11-25_20-40-37.png
[22:48] <eylul> oh
[22:48] <eylul> I see. ok
[22:48] <eylul> hmm maybe we should just link to xubuntu and ubuntu bug reports for reference rather than trying to copy paste
[22:48] <eylul> *does that :D
[22:51] <krytarik> Yeah, with appropriate notes, wfm.
[22:54] <eylul> Ubuntustudio shares some of the desktop features with Xubuntu. Please see Xubuntu release notes for additional information. 
[22:55] <eylul> there
[22:55] <eylul> it has a link
[22:56] <eylul> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZestyZapus/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuStudio
[22:57] <OvenWerks> I thought we were supposed to have Ardour 5.5
[22:57] <krytarik> eylul: Fix "==General==" pls.
[22:57] <krytarik> !info ardour
[22:59] <eylul> ok I have access to website for release, although we will need to type something
[23:00] <eylul> ok while I am here
[23:00] <eylul> !info Blender
[23:00] <eylul> !info KDEnlive
[23:01] <eylul> !info gimp
[23:01] <eylul> !info qJackCtl
[23:01] <eylul> !info scribus
[23:01] <eylul> ... wow we need to update scribus
[23:01] <eylul> !info darktable
[23:02] <eylul> ????
[23:02] <OvenWerks> Suprise!
[23:02] <eylul> what on earth?
[23:02] <eylul> wait.. did we lose Darktable from the repo?
[23:02] <eylul> !info pitivi
[23:02] <eylul> !info inkscape
[23:03] <OvenWerks> try darktable with lower case D
[23:03] <eylul> that's what I did
[23:03] <eylul> :)
[23:03] <eylul> hang on
[23:04] <OvenWerks> http://packages.ubuntu.com/zesty/darktable
[23:05] <eylul> hmmm..
[23:05] <eylul> strange ok.. 
[23:05] <OvenWerks> 64 bit only it says... the only depends for 64 bit are
[23:06] <krytarik> eylul: And you can drop LP #1550186 there.
[23:06] <OvenWerks> libc6
[23:06] <eylul> oh nice
[23:06] <eylul> *listens to ovenwerks*
[23:07] <OvenWerks> I can't see why libc6 would be 64bit only though
[23:07] <eylul> version issue?
[23:08] <eylul> quite frankly, you are not very likely to be using darktable if you are on 32bit, its actually surprisingly demanding app
[23:08] <OvenWerks> supports arm64 too.
[23:09] <OvenWerks> demanding on Arm?
[23:09] <eylul> demanding for an old computer
[23:09] <OvenWerks> most are boxes are like 2gram
[23:09] <OvenWerks> s/are/arm/
[23:11] <eylul> no I meant if you are using 32bit computer at this point, chances are you are using a pretty old computer, and darktable has a pretty heavy in terms of CPU etc usage. (or it feels like it anyway, not that I benchmarked it or anything)
[23:11]  * eylul has been doing quite a bit of photography based work lately
[23:12] <eylul> ok, all fixes to release notes in
[23:12] <eylul> I am emailing ML to keep ross updated. 
[23:14] <krytarik> → https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/darktable/2.2.1-3
[23:17] <eylul> ouch
[23:17] <eylul> ok let me finish emailing then add this to the release notes..
[23:17] <eylul> thanks for digging this up
[23:20] <OvenWerks> Our 64 bit iso has Darktable
[23:23] <krytarik> Heh, this is linked in the relevant Debian bug report: https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/blob/master/src/views/view.c#L328-L332
[23:24] <OvenWerks> displayCAL has a beg screen :P
[23:25] <krytarik> lol
[23:26]  * OvenWerks needs a colorimeter first thank you
[23:26] <krytarik> Also of note: !dt_conf_get_bool("please_let_me_suffer_by_using_32bit_darktable") :P
[23:27] <eylul> OvenWerks I know
[23:27] <eylul> :/
[23:27] <OvenWerks> so darktable should be buildable as 32 bit anyway.
[23:28] <OvenWerks> The one son who might be interested in Darktable has the 32bit machine :P
[23:28] <eylul> Ovenwerks: I think the issue is less if it is buildable, and more if it crashes. 
[23:28] <eylul> awww
[23:28] <OvenWerks> (the other has kubuntu)
[23:29]  * eylul has been using KDE on top of ubuntustudio lately.
[23:29] <eylul> (HiDPI *sighs*)
[23:29] <OvenWerks> KDE has some "won't fix issues" with window stacking.
[23:29] <eylul> *nods*
[23:29] <eylul> well
[23:29] <OvenWerks> ie dialogs end up under the main program
[23:30] <eylul> I have been noticing that yes
[23:30] <OvenWerks> The user thinks the application is frozen
[23:30] <OvenWerks> kde refuses to reconize standard x11 window stacking commands
[23:31] <eylul> well xfce is nearly impossible to use without a magnifier
[23:32] <eylul> otherwise I miss xfce
[23:32] <OvenWerks> KDE's Audio applet works fine, but I find pavucontrol more straight forward and has more controls
[23:33] <OvenWerks> Ah, that is a problem then
[23:33] <eylul> pretty much
[23:33] <eylul> I mean you can adjust the panel, but no way to scale most of the UI if I remember correctly
[23:33] <OvenWerks> alt-up_arrow?
[23:33] <eylul> no I mean.. 
[23:33] <eylul> without lowering the resolution
[23:34] <eylul> or zooming in
[23:34] <OvenWerks> ya, I know.
[23:34] <OvenWerks> the text is too small
[23:34] <eylul> *nods*
[23:34] <eylul> KDE is the closest that gets.
[23:35] <OvenWerks> well, unity is going away (with mir) so maybe gnome session will get some work.
[23:35] <eylul> that would be great
[23:35] <eylul> if it does
[23:35] <OvenWerks> MS says so. vanilla will have gnome session by 18.04
[23:35] <eylul> there is a lot I like about KDE but I miss xfce's stability. (I love activities) 
[23:35] <eylul> yep
[23:36] <OvenWerks> xfce sort of has that...
[23:36] <OvenWerks> you can save several sets of settings
[23:36] <eylul> ok so.. ugh.. "darktable is no longer supported from upstream for 32bit machines, so some instability might occur" (krytarik ovenwerks, this looks good?)
[23:37] <OvenWerks> eylul: have you tried fvwm?
[23:37] <krytarik> eylul: Erm, it's just not there to begin with..
[23:37] <OvenWerks> eylul: we do not have it for 32 bit
[23:37] <eylul> Ovenwerks: I mostly use activities to autoswitch desktops and timetracker with it. (with KDE it is nicer because you can give names, and disable some stuff you are not using) 
[23:38] <eylul> oh it was completely removed? 
[23:38] <OvenWerks> yes, darktable for 32 bit is no longer in the archives
[23:39] <OvenWerks> The user _could_ DL the src and build I suppose
[23:39] <eylul> "Darktable is removed from 32bit ISO due to lack of upstream support"
[23:39] <OvenWerks> but it sounds like a lost cause. Are there any other similar programs we could/do include?
[23:40] <eylul> there is rawtherapee
[23:40] <eylul> I never used it, but people do use it
[23:40] <OvenWerks> we have that
[23:40] <eylul> *nods*
[23:41] <eylul> I think darktable needs to stay for 64bit. 
[23:41] <eylul> even if it is only 64bit
[23:41] <OvenWerks> ubuntu want to stop support for 32 isos..
[23:41] <eylul> but yeah there is an - yeah I know
[23:41] <OvenWerks> I agree.
[23:41] <eylul> I am not sure I agree with that.
[23:42] <OvenWerks> some of the better hw for audio is still 32 bit.
[23:42] <eylul> hw?
[23:42] <OvenWerks> hardware
[23:42] <OvenWerks> computers if you like
[23:43] <OvenWerks> -controls is still the old one.
[23:43] <eylul> oh
[23:44] <eylul> I see
[23:44] <OvenWerks> I guess it hasn't made it out of proposed?
[23:44] <eylul> old one == ?
[23:44] <eylul> same thing on yakkety yak? 
[23:44] <eylul> broken one that is one version ahead?
[23:45] <krytarik> eylul: Two things regarding the release notes still: 1.) "Zesty Zapus/ReleaseNotes" has to be without space; and 2.) I know this is a common mistake, but "Ubuntustudio" → "Ubuntu Studio"
[23:45] <OvenWerks> Ya, but... it doesn't ask for sudo
[23:45] <OvenWerks> so it doesn't work
[23:46] <OvenWerks> oh hang on I am still in the live session
[23:46] <OvenWerks> scratch that
[23:46]  * eylul begins laughing at ovenwerks
[23:47]  * OvenWerks has to decide whihc partition he should use to install on.
[23:47] <eylul> Krytarik: done and done
[23:47] <krytarik> Thanks.
[23:47]  * OvenWerks still doesn't like whisker or the theme
[23:47]  * eylul really needs to log off and lie down soon. 
[23:48] <krytarik> -controls is indeed the old one still though.
[23:48] <eylul> ok
[23:48] <eylul> I put a moratorium on the terms "old one" and "new one" when talking about -controls
[23:48] <eylul> :D
[23:48] <eylul> there is 3 things out there right now
[23:49] <eylul> old version (yakkety and older) that nobody touched in ages, lets call it original controls, ovenwerks(1) which is functional, but not much features, ovenwerks(2) which is broken
[23:49] <eylul> :D
[23:50] <OvenWerks> ovenwerks(3) no one has seen
[23:50] <eylul> which one is at the release currently?
[23:50]  * eylul mockglares at ovenwerks
[23:50] <OvenWerks> original
[23:51] <eylul> ok so I am removing that line from release notes
[23:51] <OvenWerks> but OW1 has been put in proposed and tested and was supposed to have gotten into the repo. Ross would know.
[23:51] <eylul> ok.
[23:51] <krytarik> There is nothing in -proposed.
[23:52] <eylul> *snorts*
[23:52] <OvenWerks> not sure where I got it from then
[23:52] <OvenWerks> Ross asked me to test... might be his PPA
[23:52]  * eylul is doubling over laughing
[23:53] <OvenWerks> you tickle easy  
[23:53] <eylul> controls went back and forth one time too many :D
[23:55] <OvenWerks> Installer still after 5 releases warns of partition size change even when the partition is left the same size :/
[23:55] <eylul> 2016-10-18 yup it is the old one
[23:56] <eylul> original one
[23:56] <eylul> !
[23:56] <eylul> *cringes*
[23:57] <eylul> has the bug been documented somewhere?
[23:57] <OvenWerks> I think so. I don't like opening browsers while installing though
[23:57] <eylul> :D
[23:58] <eylul> ok release notes fixed for ubuntustudio-controls. removed that line
[23:58] <OvenWerks> The image for audio deffinitely has the old ardour.
[23:58] <krytarik> eylul: Oh wow, you put one space more in there, instead of dropping the one :D - "[[Zesty Zapus/Release Notes]]"