[00:55] <bluesabre> knome: are we attached to the way the headers are  currently on the release notes, or can I fix the sections?
[00:55] <knome> feel free to fix anything that isn't right
[00:55] <bluesabre> cool
[00:55] <bluesabre> I'm sure somebody will come in behind me and do the same :D
[00:55] <knome> especially now that we aren't doing includes from the main release notes, whatever works for us is goof
[00:56] <knome> err
[00:56] <knome> good
[00:56] <bluesabre> goof
[00:56] <bluesabre> I like it
[00:56] <knome> :)
[00:56] <knome> maybe that too
[00:57] <bluesabre> Changes made, http://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/17.04/release-notes
[00:58] <bluesabre> probably going to tidy up the issues list as well
[01:00] <knome> mhm
[01:00] <knome> i'll look at the release announcement for the website tomorrow
[02:02] <bluesabre> Alrighty, done messing with the release notes http://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/17.04/release-notes
[02:02] <bluesabre> flocculant: allllllll yours :)
[06:27] <flocculant> bluesabre: thanks re release note :)
[06:28] <flocculant> but on the other thing do you mean some xfce package would stop getting updated in the archive? cos that doesn't make sense to me? 
[10:00] <bluesabre> flocculant: I mean that we'd stop updating the package for that and any other non-EOL releases
[10:20] <ochosi> hey bluesabre 
[10:20] <bluesabre> hey ochosi 
[10:20] <ochosi> if you wanna update your quick and dirty packaging with the updated patch, i can get more testing for it
[10:21] <ochosi> as i said, functionally it was already working fine. it was just the primary entry that was added to the menu twice (silly me)
[10:24] <bluesabre> ochosi: fails to build
[10:24] <bluesabre> xfce4-panel/xfce4-panel/panel/panel-preferences-dialog.c:501: undefined reference to `panel_str_is_empty'
[10:24] <bluesabre> bbabl
[10:33] <ochosi> woot? crap. built for me. never check in stuff after midnight :(
[10:33] <ochosi> i'll check again tonight
[11:08] <flocculant> bluesabre: mmk - seems a bit meh but ok :) I might have ubuntu supported for 5 years and really prefer parole to the gnome thing :)
[11:08] <flocculant> just wanted it right in my head - someone was trying to get help in #x yesterday 
[13:00] <stevehope> question on the release notes, For new installs a swap file will be used instead of a swap partition. < does this apply to upgrades?
[13:04] <encomjones> why a swap file instead of a swap partition 
[13:18] <knome> stevehope, no, existing partitioning will always be kept, including swap
[13:19] <knome> encomjones, i don't remember where, but there's an explanation on the rationale behind that in some developers blog somewhere
[13:19] <knome> eg. this isn't an active decision by the xubuntu team, but we are (at least) good enough with the change that we won't strive to differ from the ubuntu desktop here
[13:21] <encomjones> okely dokely 
[13:26] <stevehope> knome, thanks, didn't recall a change in swap during testing, maybe clarification?
[13:31] <stevehope> Existing linux swap partitions retained...
[13:35] <stevehope> So in the event of an upgrade user doesn't remove legacy swap, thinking its now a file, breaking new and old installs
[13:36] <stevehope> *post install
[13:41] <stevehope> the reasoning may be too conveluted, lol it's how I think :P
[13:44] <stevehope> or you could replace the word "new" with the correct term for what you intend 'clean' ;)
[13:46] <knome> yes, that might do it...
[13:47] <knome> though "clean" is a correct term too :P
[13:47] <knome> but maybe it wouldn't hurt to mention that "Upgrades aren't affected by this."
[13:48] <knome> though then i'm not sure how many people who upgrade read the release announement/notes
[13:48] <knome> or for that matter, how many people in general read them :P
[13:53] <stevehope> I'm quite new here, still getting a feel for expectations of edit / not significant enough to warrant change here
[13:55] <stevehope> i used to work in q&a
[13:57] <stevehope> * despite the fact that I have the spelling of an eight year old =]
[14:06] <knome> no worries :)
[14:06] <knome> it's always good to have more people looking at things
[14:06] <knome> history has proven us that not enough people read the release notes or even the announcement...
[14:15] <stevehope> i'ld prefer to try to just give my suggestion instead of trying to be verbose... ie new = [clean, upgrade]; clean != new if thats ok?
[14:56] <knome> pleia2, ochosi: i'm going to pick up a delivery from the netherlands in a bit...
[14:56] <knome> ->
[16:09] <flocculant> knome: flying?
[16:34] <ochosi> knome: oookay? i thought we were expecting something from .hu..?
[16:57] <stevehope> @knome "history has proven us that not enough people read the release notes or even the announcement..." because more often than not, the contents isn't current or correct, self fulfilling prophecy
[16:57] <meetingology> stevehope: Error: "knome" is not a valid command.
[16:58] <stevehope> knome "history has proven us that not enough people read the release notes or even the announcement..." because more often than not, the contents isn't current or correct, self fulfilling prophecy
[17:12] <flocculant> bluesabre: changed the changelog bit - a lot
[17:12] <flocculant> stevehope: added re swap file and upgrade
[17:14] <ochosi> crap, just fixed another small issue in greybird :/
[17:14] <stevehope> :)
[17:14] <flocculant> hi ochosi :)
[17:17] <ochosi> how're things flocculant?
[17:17] <flocculant> I'll be glad when it's Friday ;)
[17:17] <flocculant> other than that - everything is tickety boo :D
[17:17] <stevehope> if friday gold day?
[17:17] <stevehope> is
[17:18] <flocculant> friday is long weekend ;) and also release+1 day ...
[17:19] <stevehope> ah, I'm retired i'm still on my last long weekend
[17:20] <flocculant> bluesabre - couple more smoke tests for the tracker and assuming no respins overnight I'll mark the release in the morning
[17:20] <flocculant> and anyone else wondering :(
[17:20] <flocculant> ugh
[17:20] <flocculant> :)
[17:26] <stevehope> ill get the incomplete 386 desktops ISOs, so they have a result
[17:26] <flocculant> stevehope: doing those here too :)
[17:27] <stevehope> well two tests are better than one and I'm already zsync'ing si might as well keep going
[17:28] <flocculant> stevehope: I hope you hang around during the next cycle - we can find you things to do - we need to test testcases against new early in the cycle - getting closer to LTS cycle so we'll be thinking about package testing again
[17:28] <flocculant> and yea - as many results as possible is good :D
[17:31] <flocculant> stevehope: do you use hardware or vm's?
[17:33] <stevehope> Both, I use one or the other, depends on the specific test 
[17:35] <flocculant> k - useful to know :)
[17:35] <stevehope> as i have a limited selection of hardware to test with, if Im emulating I use virtualbox
[17:36] <flocculant> righ
[17:36] <flocculant> t
[17:37] <flocculant> I have a very limited selection of hardware - so mostly hardware test only at milestones - though I will be using the 'next' version as soon as the toolchain is open and we actually have 17.10 available
[17:38] <flocculant> then I kill it with the help of ochosi bluesabre and Unit193's ppa's and things during the cycle :p
[17:38] <stevehope> * I run virutalbox in the default setting for a Ubuntu 64 system, with ISO in cd, with the exception i give the virtualbox 4gb ram for performance
[17:38] <flocculant> I think slickymaster / slickymasterWork uses vbox, me and akxwi-dave (afaik) both use kvm now
[17:39] <flocculant> I do for sure :)
[17:40] <slickymasterWork> nopes flocculant
[17:40] <stevehope> I intend to learn kvm, have in installed, exploring docker-machine to manage vm's kvm next
[17:40] <slickymasterWork> for a while now I've only been using VMware
[17:43] <stevehope> would you recommend VMware over kvm in general?
[17:44] <flocculant> slickymasterWork: oh right - some thing other than kvm still though
[17:44] <slickymasterWork> I'm using it on windows hosts stevehope, not on linux hosts
[17:44] <slickymasterWork> yes, flocculant
[17:45] <flocculant> stevehope: I find kvm/qemu to be a lot quicker - though could obviously not be the case in reality
[17:45] <stevehope> ah, i guess you're up to speed on bash on ubuntu on windows and the other parts of the win linux subsystem
[17:47] <stevehope> i was playing around with it before i swtiched to xubuntu for all my computers https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/commandline/wsl/about
[17:49] <flocculant> stevehope: can you go to http://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/17.04/release-notes - I added workround to the system encryption locale issue - does it make sense to you?
[17:49] <flocculant> or indeed anyone else who happens to be idling the day away reading in here :)
[17:50] <flocculant> having checked it out - I can at least confirm the bug and workround :D
[17:51] <slickymasterWork> I would put some sort of separation between the bug description and the start of the workaround explanation, flocculant
[17:52] <flocculant> what like a space? 
[17:52] <slickymasterWork> I dunno
[17:52] <slickymasterWork> you already have a space
[17:52] <flocculant> cos there is one of those :D
[17:52] <slickymasterWork> maybe the word workaround in bold
[17:52] <flocculant> hang on 
[17:52] <slickymasterWork> ou underlined
[17:54] <flocculant> check now
[17:54] <slickymasterWork> excellent 
[17:54] <flocculant> :)
[17:55] <slickymasterWork> just one last thing flocculant, there's an extra space between ( and Use, in ( Use F3)
[17:56] <knome> flocculant hasn't learned the importance of whitespace (or lack of it) yet apparently :P
[17:56] <stevehope> Yes, other suggestion though *ducks* "System encryption password set before setting keyboard locale (1047384) Workround: Start the installation with the correct keymap. ( Use F3) to set your keymap before booting either installation option" not correct, the crypt password was moved from some acsii display, grub? to the slides, in one of the recent respins, current workaround, goto next slide to set keyboard, back up one slide.
[17:56] <flocculant> lol
[17:56] <slickymasterWork> hey knome
[17:56] <flocculant> slickymasterWork: > http://wiki.xubuntu.org/releases/17.04/release-notes?do=revisions
[17:56] <knome> good evening
[17:56] <slickymasterWork> i saw it flocculant
[17:56] <knome> i anvil it
[17:56] <knome> :Ð
[17:57] <slickymasterWork> lol
[17:57] <flocculant> slickymasterWork: did you see the revison reason :D
[17:57] <flocculant> stevehope: don't understand what you're saying there
[17:57] <slickymasterWork> nopes flocculant, just saw the revision made
[17:57] <slickymasterWork> will see it now
[17:57] <flocculant> and good evening knome :)
[17:57] <flocculant> slickymasterWork: :p
[17:58] <slickymasterWork> hahahah flocculant
[17:58] <stevehope> if you step through the instalation slides you'll get it
[17:58] <knome> i'll move stuff to the announcement on the website soon unless you are planning huge changes :P
[17:58]  * slickymasterWork not trying to steal the nitpicking position in the team which is already taken
[17:58] <flocculant> stevehope: I'm not talking about slides - and our slides don't mention that afaik - I'm referring to a bug 
[17:59] <flocculant> slickymasterWork: you and kryten share that crown - always too late with the comments though normally :D
[17:59] <slickymasterWork> that's true
[17:59] <flocculant> :)
[18:02] <stevehope> I know the bug you are reffering to, i was present in a zesty final ISO, then a respin created a new slide to enter the password in the slide interface, instead of dropping to ascii, and having to enter it there, the only issue now is moving the keyboard select back 1 slide, and the bug is totally gone
[18:02] <stevehope> *it was present
[18:03] <flocculant> not sure then - not something I saw
[18:05] <flocculant> knome: 9 attempts to login to x.org :(
[18:06] <flocculant> would have been so much quicker just to ask you if you started the announcement post yet :D
[18:07] <stevehope> I don't want to be perceived as new most irritating nittpicker, I can understand if you think it's a nit not worth picking, if you simply don't believe me enter the information manually on an encrypted install yourself
[18:08] <flocculant> stevehope: not at all - I really don't get what you mean here - can you screenshot it?
[18:08] <stevehope> yes
[18:08] <flocculant> cool
[18:09] <flocculant> cos nit-picking is what qa should do anyway - as long as it's not about circles or ellipses :p
[18:09] <knome> flocculant, not yet
[18:10] <knome> but i'm digging into it literally now
[18:13] <stevehope> I would have to find one of the previous spins in final, for the previous display, which I consider a complete waste of time, I will prepare install screenshots of current behaviour to save you actually reading the order of the slide's, I don't consider this a constructive exercise though
[18:14] <flocculant> stevehope: oh
[18:14] <flocculant> if it happened - but doesn't now I'd not worry too much
[18:19] <akxwi-dave> flocculant: I use KVm on main machine, virtualbox on laptop and another PC, along with bare meta
[18:24] <knome> ok, draft at https://xubuntu.org/?p=4295&preview=true
[18:25] <knome> do we want to list all of the notable issues on the announcement? i was thinking we might condense the parole bugs to one line about parole having issues...
[18:25] <knome> also not sure if sgt-puzzles and indicator plugin are worthy enough
[18:26] <knome> the bugs, that is
[18:26] <knome> also created https://xubuntu.org/release/17-04/ if somebody wants to get poetic
[18:27] <knome> i also notice that we create links with non-existent links... they just point to the page itself so it's *just fine* to have that for a day (though i'll fix that later)
[18:28] <knome> we also seem to be linking to direct download locations
[18:28] <knome> which is a bit meh
[18:28] <knome> so meh
[18:28] <knome> i'll remove the "release"
[18:28] <knome> need to fix THAT
[18:28] <flocculant> knome: re parole - I'd have them on one line - detail is elsewhere
[18:28] <knome> yep
[18:28] <knome> let me work that out
[18:29] <flocculant> we recommend you to use > we recommend that you use 
[18:29] <knome> maybe mention thunar's issues first?
[18:29] <flocculant> yea
[18:29] <flocculant> I'd not get too specific on any tbh - specifics are on release note
[18:30] <flocculant> list of new package versions (since 14.04 LTS), < remove the (14.04) bit
[18:31] <knome> draft updated
[18:31] <knome> oh right, yes
[18:31] <knome> see, i'm copy-pasting from the 16.04 announcement :P
[18:32] <flocculant> :)
[18:32] <knome> and new update
[18:32] <knome> bbiab
[18:33] <flocculant> you really should release lock :p
[18:33] <flocculant> available as Torrents > torrents and later too
[18:38] <knome> ugh
[18:38] <knome> saved and released
[18:38] <knome> not the article, the lock...
[18:41] <flocculant> knome: looks ok - ty
[18:41] <flocculant> in other news ... is Show all mirrors with full information supposed to do more than it actually does?
[18:41] <knome> what does it do?
[18:42] <flocculant> just shows what you are already looking at :)
[18:42] <knome> have you got JS enabled?
[18:42] <flocculant> *shrug*
[18:42] <knome> well it's supposed to expand the list
[18:42] <knome> and, yeah..
[18:42] <knome> urgh
[18:43] <knome> need to fix that too for non-js-enabled
[18:45] <flocculant> no java installed here seems
[18:45] <flocculant> guess I had no reason up to now
[18:46] <knome> java != javascript
[18:46] <flocculant> knome: you want me to bug report that? so it's not forgotten? 
[18:46] <knome> that would be nice, thanks
[18:46] <knome> guess i'll report the release bug myself
[18:47] <stevehope> re encryption entry in encrypted install, is now the 3rd interactive slide, this was done to address the old method of entering password in a low res acsii type interface, slide 3 was added, however it was inserted before current slide 4 where the keyboard localization is set, the bug is almost fully addressed, the keyboard localiztion simplely need to be set as slide 3. not it's current order: 1, 2, drive password, keyboard should be 1, 2, keyboa
[18:50] <flocculant> knome: about:config tells me javascript is true
[18:50] <knome> weird then
[18:50] <stevehope> is there still a need for me to screenshot the slides individally?
[18:50] <knome> flocculant, how many links do you see before the "all mirrors" link?
[18:51] <flocculant> knome: if you mean countries - 13
[18:52] <knome> ok,
[18:52] <knome> and when you click the link do you still only see 13?
[18:52] <flocculant> yea
[18:52] <knome> yeah, it should show more, and an "info" link for each
[18:52] <flocculant> though url is now http://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/#show-all
[18:53] <knome> that's expected
[18:53] <knome> which browser?
[18:53] <flocculant> ff 52
[18:53] <knome> me too...
[18:53] <knome> https://temp.knome.fi/xubuntu/temp/mirror-links.png
[18:53] <knome> this is what you should get after clicking
[18:54] <flocculant> knome: ack - not sure I have 'ever' seen that
[18:56] <flocculant> stevehope: ohhh ... when you're talking about slides you're talking about the installation stages - yea that's right, I see what you're saying now :)
[18:56] <flocculant> hence the workround 
[18:57] <flocculant> set keymap before installation gets that far
[18:58] <knome> flocculant, since your bug is so random, so is debug... what do you see when you go to view-source:http://xubuntu.org/wp-content/themes/xubuntu-theme/xubuntu-fifteen/script-releases.js?ver=2
[18:58] <flocculant> knome: might be my 'kicking around forever and a day' ff profile - works on a default iso boot 
[18:58] <knome> or in other words, do you see some codE?
[18:58] <knome> some caching might be related too
[18:58] <knome> and once you load that page....
[18:58] <flocculant> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24369199/
[18:58] <knome> press F5 and see if it updates
[18:59] <knome> that looks as it should though
[19:00] <flocculant> knome: seeing info now 
[19:00] <knome> so apparently cache
[19:00] <flocculant> and more links
[19:02] <flocculant> really should remember to f5 before I say anything lol
[19:03] <knome> commented on the bug - leaving open as i'll do $something for it anyway
[19:03] <knome> that *should* fix the cache issue for people
[19:04] <flocculant> ok
[19:04] <flocculant> ty :)
[19:04] <knome> yw
[19:04] <knome> happy to help, especially as this let me discover that other, more critical bug :P
[19:05] <flocculant> :)
[19:05] <knome> too bad i have to fix it now...
[19:05] <flocculant> ha ha ha 
[19:06] <knome> but there's two sides to that too.. fortunately it's an easy fix but otoh, is hould have noticed this before...
[19:09] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r505 Revert workaround for broken border in progressbar (#153)... (by Simon Steinbeiß)
[22:15] <bluesabre> flocculant: thanks, release notes are looking pretty darn good now
[22:16] <bluesabre> next release, the changelogs will just need to be s/zesty/acrobatic/ and that will be done for the cycle
[22:38] <krytarik> flocculant: Indeed found something to nitpick on in the release notes: "Workround:" :D