[00:00] <daftykins> !info linux-generic zesty
[00:00] <daftykins> !info linux-image-generic zesty
[03:34] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[03:34] <oerheks> hi there lotuspsychje
[03:35] <lotuspsychje> hey oerheks
[03:35] <Bashing-om> lotuspsychje: \o . Off to a good start on your day .
[03:35] <lotuspsychje> hello Bashing-om
[03:45] <nathan420> hi
[03:45] <nathan420> what is your favorite operating system"?
[03:45] <lotuspsychje> ubuntu!
[03:46] <nathan420> why is it better than windows?
[03:46] <lotuspsychje> because of everything
[03:46] <oerheks> what is windows?
[03:46] <nathan420> why is it better than macos?
[03:46] <lotuspsychje> nathan420: try it yourself and find out
[03:46] <nathan420> i have
[03:46] <nathan420> i haven't tried 17.04 yet
[03:46] <lotuspsychje> nathan420: whats your conclusion?
[03:46] <nathan420> well it's nice but it lacks in interface
[03:47] <nathan420> also i prefer mac because of it not crashing as much as ubuntu did when i installed stuff
[03:47] <lotuspsychje> nathan420: you can choose different flavors/interfaces
[03:47] <nathan420> macos is retard proof while ubuntu requires the user to know what they're doing and challenges them to learn more
[03:47] <Ben64> not true
[03:47] <oerheks> overpriced child-labor hardware ... meh
[03:47] <lotuspsychje> nathan420: define 'crash' on ubuntu?
[03:47] <nathan420> system program error detected
[03:47] <nathan420> on startup
[03:48] <nathan420> after installing packages
[03:48] <nathan420> and i get like 20 of those windows
[03:48] <nathan420> but that's because i am retarded and don't know what i'm doing or why i'm getting those errors
[03:48] <lotuspsychje> nathan420: thats not a crash, its a bug you can report
[03:48] <oerheks> LoLz .. but you haven't tried 17.04
[03:48] <Ben64> did you click on it to find more information
[03:48] <nathan420> i did
[03:48] <lotuspsychje> nathan420: what did it say?
[03:48] <nathan420> did i know what any of that meant? absolutely not
[03:49] <nathan420> if they could make an interface that is just as good as macos then it'd be the best os in the world
[03:49] <nathan420> just my opinion
[03:49] <nathan420> but ubuntu doesn't have apple's budget
[03:50] <lotuspsychje> nathan420: if mac is the best, why did you ask the question?
[03:50] <nathan420> ubuntu is excellent
[03:50] <Menzador> But macOS is superior?
[03:50] <Menzador> I don't understand.
[03:51] <nathan420> there needs to be a support guide that offers videos and reading guides for those people like me who are complete morons
[03:51] <lotuspsychje> g0d355__: morning
[03:51] <Bashing-om> nathan420: Try the xfce4 desktop .
[03:51] <nathan420> i have
[03:51] <nathan420> i've also tried other desktops
[03:51] <nathan420> i think that causes bugs
[03:51] <nathan420> like the different desktop variations
[03:51] <lotuspsychje> nathan420: ubuntu has tons of support, what are you talking about?
[03:51] <nathan420> no i mean like new users are told to rtfm
[03:52] <lotuspsychje> nathan420: please dont generalize things, you can only speak of your system
[03:52] <Menzador> Really? I don't remember doing that... and I've only been here 4 years
[03:52] <nathan420> but if they'd make it so you have a website with a nice layout and videos and tutorials it'd be a lot better for everyone
[03:52] <Menzador> (used Ubuntu longer than that mind you)
[03:52] <lotuspsychje> !manual | nathan420
[03:52] <Menzador> How dare you insult the Ubuntu Website!
[03:53] <nathan420> i've used ubuntu since ubuntu 4.10
[03:53] <nathan420> but i've never progressed
[03:53] <lotuspsychje> nathan420: now your trolling...
[03:53] <nathan420> i'm the laziest person i've ever met
[03:53] <nathan420> no i am not trolling
[03:54] <nathan420> my skills plateaued
[03:54] <lotuspsychje> nathan420: mac os x is the best, but you have used ubuntu for years?
[03:54] <lotuspsychje> explain that
[03:54] <nathan420> well they're a lot better because they make their system idiot proof
[03:54] <Menzador> oh yeah?
[03:54] <nathan420> yeah
[03:54] <nathan420> and i am an idiot
[03:54] <Menzador> Prove it!
[03:55] <Menzador> By what standard do you say you're an idiot?
[03:55] <Bashing-om> nathan420: Honestly, I have been doing ubuntu support on many fronts for several years, and it is rare and always unacceptable to be told RTFM. That is not in our way or the best interest .
[03:55] <oerheks> what is wrong with rtfm ?
[03:56] <nathan420> i don't pay attention and i read the first few letters of every word to determine what it is and i skim over text which causes more problems for me and i don't care to fix it because that makes me read at 5350 wors per minute
[03:56] <Menzador> !rtfm | oerheks , feel free to read
[03:56] <Menzador> yikes
[03:56] <Menzador> we don't have that factoid anymore!
[03:56] <Menzador> oerheks: First off it uses the f-word
[03:56] <nathan420> the first time i tried ubuntu i was constantly told to rtfm
[03:56] <Ben64> by who
[03:56] <nathan420> people online
[03:56] <Menzador> nathan420: When was this?
[03:57] <nathan420> 12 years ago just about
[03:57] <Ben64> that doesn't happen in #ubuntu
[03:57] <Ben64> lol
[03:57] <Menzador> people where online?
[03:57] <nathan420> yeah
[03:57] <lotuspsychje> nathan420: ubuntu is for novice and expert users...define what you mean by idiot proof, what should ubuntu do?
[03:57] <Ben64> i'll tell people occasionally to check the manual, but it's to help them help themselves
[03:57] <nathan420> i think ubuntu should lock things right out of the box
[03:57] <nathan420> just like apple
[03:57] <Menzador> "Ubuntu killed my pet budgerigar!"
[03:57] <lotuspsychje> nathan420: it already does
[03:58] <Menzador> "Ubuntu tore down an entire skyscraper in 2 minutes!"
[03:58] <Ben64> the whole point is to give choice
[03:58] <Menzador> "Ubuntu ate my homework!"
[03:58] <lotuspsychje> lol
[03:58] <Menzador> (Ooh, 1 outta 3 ain't bad.)
[03:58] <nathan420> i don't know if failsafes for failed installs exist
[03:58] <nathan420> because it sure doesn't feel like it
[03:59] <Menzador> Why does your system need to be failsafe?
[03:59] <nathan420> because i fail more than i succeed
[03:59] <nathan420> i'm a living failure
[03:59] <Menzador> Especially since I know people who need their system to break on a regular basis
[03:59] <Ben64> you need more self confidence
[03:59] <lotuspsychje> nathan420: your trolling from one topic to another..avoiding straight answers
[03:59] <Menzador> Because if it doesn't break it's a false positive :P
[03:59] <nathan420> i'm not trolling
[03:59] <nathan420> and it's you're not your
[03:59] <Bashing-om> nathan420: Consider, that one is only as good as the tools they use. We do work hard to push to get you up on the learning curve - not tear you down  :)
[04:00] <Menzador> Happy Saturday, ET USA!
[04:01] <lotuspsychje> nathan420: so from all this said...whats your end conclusion for ubuntu?
[04:02] <lotuspsychje> nathan420: you are now at a point to make choices
[04:02] <nathan420> what i am going to dedicate my time to in the upcoming future is make ubuntu great by providing guides and curated content by experts and upload it to the internet and have a nice interface where people can look at it and will look through it
[04:02] <nathan420> but feel free to steal this idea
[04:02] <nathan420> if it won't happen i'll do it but i take a long time to do things because i am lazier than a turtle
[04:03] <nacc> nathan420: your time would probably be better spent improving the official documentation
[04:03] <lotuspsychje> nathan420: ubuntu's website has a virtual tour for years
[04:03] <nathan420> virtual tour?
[04:03] <lotuspsychje> nathan420: to have a look at the nice interface?
[04:03] <nacc> and i don't understand how you deciding to do something ensures you get curated content by experts -- seems like we'd already have that
[04:04] <oerheks> turtles are faster ..
[04:04] <lotuspsychje> lol
[04:04] <nathan420> no i'd just ask people and then have a bunch of people bash it like peer reviewed articles
[04:04] <nathan420> in that fashion lol
[04:04] <oerheks> oh no, are you an omgubuntu reporter?
[04:04] <nacc> asking people does not make it 'content by experts'
[04:04] <nathan420> yes it does
[04:04] <nathan420> especially when people who are high up there
[04:04] <nacc> you have to ask *experts* to make it 'content by experts'
[04:05] <nacc> not "people"
[04:05] <nathan420> assholes by the likes of linus torvalds
[04:05] <nathan420> and such
[04:05] <nacc> alright someone ban nathan420
[04:05] <lotuspsychje> nathan420: please keep it polite here
[04:05] <nacc> no time for that garbage
[04:05] <nathan420> because i am calling linus torvalds what he is?
[04:05] <nathan420> i respect the guy for his great input
[04:05] <nathan420> and him being an asshole is just great for things like this
[04:05] <nacc> nathan420: because you didn't read the /topic, clearly, and the guidelines clearly state policy for language
[04:05] <nacc> also what does linus have to do with ubuntu?
[04:05] <nathan420> asshole is not a bad word
[04:06] <nathan420> he invented ubuntu
[04:06] <nacc> lol
[04:06] <nacc> nathan420: ok, you're absolutely a troll
[04:06] <lotuspsychje> !guidelines | nathan420 read here
[04:06] <nathan420> he and mark shuttleworth
[04:06] <nathan420> mark shuttleworth worked closely with linus torvalds
[04:40] <lotuspsychje> !info bonnie++ | Bashing-om
[04:51] <lotuspsychje> https://yunit.io/
[04:51] <lotuspsychje> the unity8 fork is born :p #yunit
[05:15] <EriC^^> morning guys
[05:16] <lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
[05:16] <Bashing-om> hey EriC^^ .. Good that you are able to be here . Glad to read ya ;)
[05:16] <EriC^^> hey Bashing-om lotuspsychje
[06:18] <ducasse> hi all
[06:29] <Bashing-om> *ducasse* slips in while I was not looking :)
[06:30] <ducasse> hiya, Bashing-om - how's life? :)
[06:31] <Bashing-om> ducasse: System still beating me up .. lotus is alleviating the best he can :) Got a coule of other things to do to see if we can isolate the freezing issue .
[06:32] <ducasse> it's freezing again? i thought that got fixed :(
[06:35] <Bashing-om> ducasse: Nawww .. no fix yet . Keep messing about and hope for the best . Sometrimes will go for days at a time with no problems . and sometimes it takes these freezing incidents one after the other . - nothing consistent I can lay it too !
[06:37] <ducasse> i had these mysterious crashes where my desktop would suddenly hard-reset for no apparent reason while i was working on it remotely.
[06:37] <Bashing-om> ducasse: lotuspsychje Has given me a couple of ideas to play around with .
[06:37] <lotuspsychje> morning ducasse
[06:37] <ducasse> then i discovered it got warm, so my cat slept on top of it, and when she woke up she pressed the reset button :)
[06:38] <lordievader> Good morning.
[06:38] <ducasse> hi lo* :)
[06:38] <Bashing-om> ducasse: I have learned to save all my work *frequently* .
[06:38] <ducasse> autosave ftw
[06:38] <lotuspsychje> morning lordievader
[06:39] <lordievader> Hey ducasse, lotuspsychje
[06:40] <ducasse> how are you two? any easter plans?
[06:40] <ducasse> Bashing-om: have you got another machine on the same network?
[06:41] <Bashing-om> ducasse: No - not yet .. that too is in the planning stage . See if I can SSH into this box when it freezes .
[06:42] <ducasse> Bashing-om: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Netconsole
[06:42] <Bashing-om> ducasse: reading .
[06:43] <ducasse> Bashing-om: it might give you a better view of the crash than a local log
[06:45] <lordievader> ducasse: Doing good. Other than having some nice food, not really. Do you have any plans?
[06:46] <Bashing-om> ducasse: Logging is not pertanent./ when the freeze happens nothing is logged - yea I been tailing /var/log/syslog and journalctl and as well top . Not a thing to note and then suddemly no mouse or keyboard and time is stopped on the clock . Seems to networking is down - so maybe a waste of time to try and SSH in ..
[06:46] <lordievader> Memory full?
[06:46] <lordievader> I.e. lots of swapping going on.
[06:47] <Bashing-om> not according to top . lordievader - was running all day this day with a minimal load on the system and still got a freeze incident .
[06:48] <ducasse> lordievader: my mother and sister might visit, so i'll be cooking dinner for them. other than that, just play with arch etc :)
[06:48] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: cool! here same friends over dinner
[06:48] <Bashing-om> lordievader: I watch for swapping and it is rare that I have enough going on to touch swap .
[06:49] <ducasse> Bashing-om: it could be just a gui crash or something, so i'd still try ssh and/or netconsole
[06:49] <lotuspsychje> bbl breakfast
[06:49] <Bashing-om> ducasse: Yeah .. is in the works :)
[06:50] <lordievader> Bashing-om: Annoying issue.
[06:51] <ducasse> Bashing-om: this is the same machine you did the bios update on, right?
[06:57] <Bashing-om> ducasse: Affirmative . latest bios to try and get the ole box up to SSD standards . Found out to set raid enabled to have AHCI .
[07:05] <ducasse> Bashing-om: i see lotus suggests stressing the system, try 'stress' in addition to bonnie++ - bonnie is mostly for i/o.
[07:08] <Bashing-om> ducasse: K; will do that too . I was real disappointed in that this day I deliberaely did not load up the system, and still got a freeze . Most all set back to defaults.
[07:12] <Bashing-om> diarpi: stress installed - will run in the AM see what I can learn .
[07:20] <ducasse> Bashing-om: hope it reveals something, you must have tested just about everything now :)
[07:21] <lordievader> Could it be a bad PSU?
[07:22] <lordievader> They give the strangest behaviour.
[07:22] <lordievader> The computer of my father would just randomly restart.
[07:22] <Bashing-om> lordievader: Thought that too, pulled 2 drives to lessen the load .
[07:22] <lordievader> Replaced the PSU, gone issue.
[07:31] <Bashing-om> Should not fjewio - in main - be directed to #ubuntu-ops ?
[07:50] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: he has 750 watt, should be plenty
[07:51] <lordievader> There is a difference between enough watts and a bad PSU ;)
[07:51] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: the freezes started when plugged his ssd, hence why the bonnie stresstest
[07:52] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: true, but bad psu results mostly in pc shutdown
[07:56] <lordievader> Well in my experience, it can have very strange results.
[07:57] <Bashing-om> lordievader: PSU: Beefy fans on this box that are loud and I note no change in the fan noise when the system freezes up .
[08:01] <lotuspsychje> welcome avis
[08:04] <ducasse> Bashing-om: i second lordievader's suggestion to test the psu if you can, it can indeed have strange results
[08:06] <Bashing-om> ducasse: lordievader : On my list to get a new test meter , present one got wet and that was the end of the fluke :(
[08:12] <ducasse> Bashing-om: or test with another psu if you have a spare
[08:14] <Bashing-om> ducasse: Is a good thought . see what I can pull out of the rust pile .
[08:17] <ducasse> Bashing-om: what happens if you remove the ssd - is it stable then?
[08:18] <ducasse> (sorry if i've asked before)
[08:30] <lotuspsychje> bbl shop
[13:08] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[13:08] <ducasse> good morning, BluesKaj
[13:09] <BluesKaj> Hey ducasse
[13:11] <BluesKaj> I just read that Fedora 25 with Gnome 3.22 is using Wayland instead of X and it's very smooth, unfortunately not so great on nvidia gpus
[13:13] <ducasse> i know, i was actually thinking of testing it out myself. i've played with wayland on my laptop, and it was super smooth compared to x. felt very 'silky', if you know what i mean?
[13:15] <BluesKaj> yes
[13:16] <BluesKaj> thining of trying it on my laptop as well, no nvidia there
[13:16] <BluesKaj> thinking
[13:18] <ducasse> amd (radeon driver) on my laptop, intel in the desktop. that's the one i'm most curious about, i'll have to install wayland on it and see. there's a ppa with fairly updated packages.
[13:19] <ducasse> i had trouble building the compositor i want on ubuntu, though, some libs it wasn't too happy about. nearly led to deps hell, so i'm wary of trying again.
[13:20] <pauljw> Hi everyone
[13:21] <ducasse> \o pauljw :)
[13:21] <pauljw> o/
[13:24] <Oerheks> :-)
[13:25] <ducasse> Oerheks: wb :)
[13:25] <pauljw> hey Oerheks
[13:28] <ducasse> has any of you tested the iridium browser?
[13:28] <Oerheks> just got back in, from easter-shopping ....... crazy people
[13:34] <BluesKaj> Hi pauljw
[13:37]  * BluesKaj checks iridium browser
[13:38]  * ducasse clicks 'download'
[13:42]  * Oerheks kills a process and goes to jail
[13:44]  * ducasse bakes a cake for Oerheks with an exploit inside
[13:46] <Oerheks> heya xangua :-D
[13:46] <xangua> Hi
[13:54] <BluesKaj> odd the commands to setup the repos for the browser fail to do anything in the terminal here
[13:55] <BluesKaj> anyway i'm not that curious, I already run chrome
[13:55] <ducasse> worked fine here
[13:56] <BluesKaj> ducasse:  this ? https://iridiumbrowser.de/downloads/linux.html
[13:57] <ducasse> BluesKaj: yep. oddly, the first thing it did on startup was to ask if i wanted to log in to google :) (the faq warns about this, though, but i don't understand why they didn't just remove it)
[13:59] <BluesKaj> I'm on debian atm, it failed to insta;ll the repos so no bpackage was available
[14:01] <pauljw> hi BluesKaj :)
[14:01] <pauljw> was outside with Jack...
[14:03] <BluesKaj> ok wirking now, had to install apt-transport-https
[14:17] <BluesKaj> very simiilar to chrome pauljw, seems ok tho , but I'll stick with chrome
[14:19] <ducasse> i'm kind of interested in all the anti-data-leaking features, will try it out some.
[16:56] <BluesKaj> installed fedora 25 with gnome3.22, seems slick etc with wayland , but that doesn't help much when you don't like the DE, so I don't think it's long for my laptop .
[16:59] <brunch875> BluesKaj, I thought I was the only one who was giving fedora a try
[17:00] <brunch875> I like how I get python3.6 and git 2.12 on fedora+1
[17:01] <pauljw> BluesKaj, aren't there other DEs available to install?
[17:28] <BluesKaj> hmm, sftp just crashed my whole network.  Was transferring some pics from the this pc to the laptop and it also knocked wife's pc offline and my laptop. Trying rsync instead and so far so good.
[23:19] <Bashing-om> I'm Baaccckkk :) Ready or not here I come .
[23:20] <daftykins> :D wb!
[23:24] <Bashing-om> daftykins: Let's see if and how long I can stay up // See what happens now with this ole box here .
[23:31] <daftykins> well that didn't look good...