[03:50] <superfly> Found Linux (LXDE, I think) running in a furniture store today: https://goo.gl/photos/aRqejhfYnLmrG5Sv7 
[04:21] <paddatrapper> superfly: ha cool! 
[05:54] <nsnzero> morning all
[06:14] <inetpro> good morning 
[06:14] <inetpro> oh and hi nsnzero
[06:15] <nsnzero> hi there inetpro - hope you are well 
[06:15] <inetpro> all good thanks and you?
[06:16] <nsnzero> just getting back into the swing of things at work - lol - never knew that i have gotten so lazy
[06:50] <inetpro> nsnzero: just blame the weather :-)
[06:51] <theblazehen> Hi inetpro, nsnzero, all
[06:51] <inetpro> theblazehen: hi
[06:56] <nsnzero> theblazehen: morning
[07:14] <inetpro> theblazehen: interesting discussion you had yesterday
[07:15] <inetpro> tell me, do you run containers inside VMs or do you avoid that as far as possible?
[07:17] <theblazehen> inetpro: I generally run whatever I can in containers, if not, it goes in a VM. For things like docker etc, I run docker containers inside a lxd container (lxd container per "service", eg the web + db + whatever for one service in one lxd container)
[07:18] <theblazehen> I run my vpn sever in a VM rather than container because that had some issues when I tried, and openstack install will likely be inside a few actual VMs
[07:19] <theblazehen> Basically, if it requires privileged stuff it goes into a VM
[07:19] <inetpro> so multiple LXD containers inside a VM is ok?
[07:21] <theblazehen> Well, I'm running my LXD containers on bare metal
[07:21] <theblazehen> But yeah
[07:21] <theblazehen> I think you'd be limited to something like 65536 containers / container host though
[07:22] <theblazehen> Still, you'd need beefy hardware and lightweight containers before you get that far
[07:23] <theblazehen> My openstack is probably gonna be using lxd so that will be lxd in kvm
[07:23] <inetpro> interesting
[07:26] <theblazehen> You can also do lxd in lxd
[07:26] <theblazehen> And docker in lxd, but I had to use the vfs docker storage driver
[07:26] <nsnzero> windows 7 wont install in kvm - 
[07:26] <theblazehen> iirc had issues with docker in lxd in lxd
[07:27] <theblazehen> nsnzero: works for me. What issue you having??
[07:27] <theblazehen> s/$//
[07:27] <nsnzero> just gets stuck at the windows 7 splash - i will try to get a prebuilt vm and try that
[07:28] <theblazehen> Which video driver thing you using? qxl, cirrus, vga?
[07:29] <nsnzero> graphic type ? system default spice - this is from the Virtual Machine Manager gui
[07:30] <theblazehen> Video section in virt manager
[07:30] <theblazehen> vga / qxl / cirrus / xen / vmvga etc
[07:31] <theblazehen> And using virtio / sata / ide disk?
[07:31] <nsnzero> i do not see any of those config options 
[07:32] <nsnzero> ok now i found it 
[07:35] <nsnzero> changed it to vga and sata
[07:35] <theblazehen> What was the disk?
[07:37] <nsnzero> ide
[07:37] <nsnzero> still hangs on the splash screen
[07:37] <theblazehen> Alright. Stuck on the install or boot afterwards?
[07:37] <theblazehen> iirc that change would normally require a reinstall anyway
[07:38] <nsnzero> install boot screen 
[07:38] <nsnzero> i will try cloning my working virtual box image into it and see it that works
[07:38] <theblazehen> What's cpu usage like?
[07:39] <nsnzero> spikes then drops to a low value on the graph
[07:39] <theblazehen> Tried core2duo cpu?
[07:39] <theblazehen> Hmm
[07:39] <nsnzero> i5
[07:39] <theblazehen> Is cd / dvd drive ide / sata?
[07:40] <nsnzero> no dvd / cd - using a iso from local stroage 
[07:40] <nsnzero> tried windows 7 and windows 10 installation - both hangs at the same place 
[07:41] <theblazehen> nsnzero: Talking about virtual cd / dvd drive
[07:41] <theblazehen> Hmm
[07:41] <theblazehen> Yeah, try core2duo cpu
[07:42] <nsnzero> no cd / dvd 
[07:59] <theblazehen> nsnzero: What's windows set to install from then in the vm?
[08:00] <nsnzero> local iso copy
[08:01] <theblazehen> Yeah, but you have that iso attached to a cd drive inside the vm right?
[08:04] <nsnzero> yip 
[08:04] <nsnzero> and i tried a physical disk in the cd rom - same thing 
[08:05] <theblazehen> Do you get a mouse cursor?
[08:06]  * theblazehen _never_ had issues with kvm...
[08:06] <theblazehen> Unless I was doing tricky stuff like passing throught a physical PCIe card
[08:06] <theblazehen> Made by nvidia who don't want you to do that unless you pay them
[08:07] <nsnzero> ctr + alt l releases the cursor - i can force off to close it
[08:08]  * andrewlsd also didn't have issues with kvm + win7
[08:08] <nsnzero> no worries - gives me something to tinker with now 
[08:08]  * andrewlsd just hit an nvidia systemd-udev bug
[08:08] <andrewlsd> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd/+bug/1655584
[08:08] <theblazehen> Was a while back, but IIRC I had a bit od issues with NT 4 and kvm though
[08:08] <andrewlsd> meh. systemd-udev starts busyloop and eating all my cpu.
[08:09] <theblazehen> andrewlsd: Just kill the process? `kill -9 1`. Oh, wait...
[08:09] <andrewlsd> ... yeah. systemd.
[08:09] <andrewlsd> (I did the -9, just spawned a new bonkers loop process)
[08:10] <theblazehen> But for real, a SIGSTOP should stop cpu usage
[08:10] <theblazehen> Will still be "running", just not doing anything
[08:10] <andrewlsd> ^ that might work. 
[08:10] <theblazehen> Then just SIGCONT if you add a usb drive or something, and SIGSTOP once it's mounted
[08:10] <andrewlsd> blacklisting every nvidia module also works.
[08:10] <nsnzero> use systemctl disable to stop it ?
[08:11] <theblazehen> `systemctl disable --now systemd-systemdd` heh
[08:11] <andrewlsd> HMM.
[08:12] <theblazehen> nsnzero: You still need it during boot, but maybe a stop would work rather than disable
[08:12] <andrewlsd> lol. how would you fix that if you disabled it?
[08:12] <theblazehen> andrewlsd: And if you stop it, make sure it doesn't have a socket as well as a service
[08:12] <andrewlsd> ... and next time boot don't work so much.
[08:12] <andrewlsd> it has several sockets.
[08:12] <andrewlsd> s/had/
[08:12] <theblazehen> andrewlsd: `init=/bin/sh`, `ln -s /usr/lib/systemd/system/whatever /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target/whatever` or so
[08:13] <andrewlsd> (I rebooted after blacklisting nvidia*)
[08:13] <theblazehen> andrewlsd: And nvidia isn't in your initrd?
[08:13] <nsnzero> what version / type of windows 7 did you guys use - 32 or 64 bit
[08:13] <andrewlsd> curiously ... this bug is only hit (in my case) when I bridge thenetwork
[08:13] <theblazehen> interesting
[08:13] <andrewlsd> nsnzero: win7-32bit
[08:13] <theblazehen> nsnzero: 64 bit
[08:13] <theblazehen> although 32 bit xp and below works fine
[08:14]  * andrewlsd admits to having virtualbox atm.
[08:14] <theblazehen> haven't tried 32 bit higher than xp
[08:15]  * andrewlsd always tried to avoid 64-bit stuff on Win, since MSO and flash and java were all 32-bit
[08:15] <andrewlsd> and the only reason I had to run Win was to run 32-bit win-only apps.
[08:16] <nsnzero> i need it for ms access as well 
[08:16] <andrewlsd> nsnzero: https://serverfault.com/questions/776406/windows-7-setup-hangs-at-starting-windows-using-proxmox-4-2
[08:16] <andrewlsd> apparently workaround is "cirrus" graphics
[08:16] <nsnzero> i dont think i seen an easier database gui/form creator than ms access
[08:17] <andrewlsd> bug affects Debian and Ubuntu.
[08:17]  * andrewlsd thinks it is not a bug.
[08:17] <theblazehen> Ah.  /me normally just uses cirrus and then rdp anyway
[08:17]  * andrewlsd thinks it _is_ a bug, since default shoudl be better.
[08:18] <andrewlsd> nsnzero: I have an app that uses an embedded "ms access runtime".
[08:18] <andrewlsd> but I still hate db forms.
[08:19] <andrewlsd> they all look like "1992 called, they want their UI back"
[08:19] <andrewlsd> "I have an app" means, "there is an app I use". The app is not mine, honestly!
[08:20] <MaNI> I'd take a 1992 UI over this 'make everything look like a tablet' fad that is now raging on the web
[08:20] <nsnzero> office is a staple in department - so we have to run it - we had a option of openoffice but its since been removed - everything is ms now - even gave us windows 10 and office 2016 for free
[08:20]  * andrewlsd finds a flat-look designer and slaps it till the welts become 3D
[08:20] <theblazehen> MaNI: Agreed. Or nodejs on the desktop
[08:20] <MaNI> internet banking is measurably worse to use than what it was 8 years ago, but hey it looks like a tablet and has lots of moving parts!
[08:21] <theblazehen> I literally saw the windows nvidia driver using nodejs...
[08:21] <MaNI> :(
[08:21] <theblazehen> MaNI: Check out the javascript on the fnb home page :)
[08:21] <theblazehen> IIRC, saw something like "This is a hack. TODO: fix it" somewhere
[08:22] <andrewlsd> ;-P
[08:22] <MaNI> haha
[08:22] <MaNI> in fairness my code has a bunch of those, but I usually have the dignity to automatically strip them out before putting them in a publicly visible place
[08:23] <andrewlsd> ^ TODO is inline documentation ;-D
[08:24] <MaNI> oh wow they've changed it again, and it's even uglier looking than the previous site
[08:24] <andrewlsd> oh no.
[08:25]  * andrewlsd goes to look
[08:25]  * andrewlsd has only used app recently
[08:25] <MaNI> (it's been a while since I last looked at FNB page as I'm now stuck with the green bank)
[08:25] <andrewlsd> probably looks ok on a Retina display.
[08:26] <andrewlsd> (meaning it won't look good on my 1366x786)
[08:27] <andrewlsd> actually. not bad. is narrower than 768. looks like it still fits in 600-width.
[08:28] <andrewlsd> There are a _lot_ of laptops with 1280|1366 x 768 screens
[08:28] <andrewlsd> so nice to see it works nicely with those instead of requiring FHD.
[08:31] <nsnzero> marketing pressure ensures that the stuff is un-necessarily  complex and eye-catching to attract customers
[08:33] <MaNI> Not more than one piece of information allowed per page, must have lots of moving parts, doing anything must require clicking through dozens of pages because if users are clicking throguh dozens of pages then the metrics are better!
[08:40] <theblazehen> 64 bit windows is interesting
[08:40] <theblazehen> C:/Windows/system32 contains 64 bit libraries
[08:41] <theblazehen> C:/windows/SysWOW64 contains 32 bit
[08:41] <nsnzero> andrewlsd: the cirrus display driver works !!! thanks
[08:42] <theblazehen> And C:/windows/system exists so that C:/windows/System~2 == C:/windows/System32
[08:42] <nsnzero> theblazehen: to maintain backward compatibility 
[08:42] <theblazehen> nsnzero: Yeah. Still, it's amusing
[08:43] <theblazehen> They try so hard to be compaitble
[08:43] <nsnzero> there is still files from windows 3.1 in there as well 
[08:43] <theblazehen> Windows was once patched because simcity uses memory after a free()
[08:44] <MaNI> it's complicated, on the one hand they bend over backwards to be compatible, OTOH they deliberately sabotage backwards compatibility for developers
[08:44] <MaNI> they want backwards compatibility to go, but they want application developers to be the 'bad guys' not themselves
[08:44] <theblazehen> And 16 bit installers still "run" on 64 bit windows because microsoft made a thing to pretty much interpret the installer and reimplement it, so that you can install 32 bit software using 16 bit installers
[08:44] <theblazehen> yeah
[08:45] <theblazehen> Still, impressive that you can upgrade from 3.11 to 10 without a reinstall
[08:45] <MaNI> e.g. With msvc2010 they deliberately made it so anything compiled using it won't work on XP (it's trivial to work around if you know some asm)
[08:45] <inetpro> "it's complicated"
[08:45] <MaNI> so what happens is e.g. the firefox devs want MSVC2010 - so they ditch XP support, people upgrade from XP but hate firefox for it not microsoft
[08:46] <MaNI> it's clever
[08:46] <theblazehen> The NTFS compression isn't the best, because certain operations were slow on the DEC Alpha, which NT ran on, so now we're still stuck with that, heh. Of course we can't just change that now, because older windows still won'
[08:46] <theblazehen> t read it
[08:47] <theblazehen> But do something like when windows xp could upgrade from fat 32 -> ntfs without reinstall - tell people that it will be better, but older windows won't be able to read it
[08:47] <theblazehen> etc
[08:48] <theblazehen> Compression for fs is still a good idea - save space on ssd, and slightly better speed, or significantly improve performance on a HDD
[08:49] <theblazehen> an i3-2100 can compress lz4 at around 80 MB/s with 50% cpu usage, single threaded, and gets decent compression
[08:49] <MaNI> yeah
[08:49] <MaNI> a fast compression algo like snappy or whatever for IO can be great
[08:50] <nsnzero> hhd should have a built-in asic for data compression in the fly 
[08:50]  * theblazehen also wishes there was something like java applets, so people will stop writing web pages for cross platform apps as well
[08:51] <theblazehen> nsnzero: I'd say more fpga, could upgrade compression algorithm on the fly
[08:51] <theblazehen> nsnzero: Not on the HDD itself yet, but check out some of the ceph stuff
[08:51] <MaNI> fgpa == expensive
[08:51]  * theblazehen looks for link
[08:51] <theblazehen> MaNI: and an asic isn't?
[08:52] <theblazehen> But yeah, not responsibility of drive
[08:52] <MaNI> less so once mass produced
[08:52] <MaNI> for a small batch more so :)
[08:52] <theblazehen> Would break the idea of "a block device has this size"
[08:52] <theblazehen> http://ceph.com/community/500-osd-ceph-cluster/
[08:54]  * theblazehen still needs to play mith ceph more, the crush map stuff isn't that easy to grok (for me at least) ...
[08:54] <theblazehen> And required for ssd tiering
[09:00] <nsnzero> thanks guys - the windows vm is up and running 
[09:01] <theblazehen> nsnzero: Nice
[09:02] <nsnzero> theblazehen: turns out my sshing wasnt working because the router disabled port forwarding - for some unknown reason - enabled it and all is good again 
[09:02] <theblazehen> nsnzero:  interesting
[09:03] <theblazehen> nsnzero: Which router?
[09:03] <nsnzero> netgear dgn2200
[09:04] <MaNI> did you save? some routers wipe their settings on reboot
[09:06] <nsnzero> saved it worked fine for some time - all the settings are there - just the enable wasnt ticked (selected) anymore
[09:06] <MaNI> strange
[09:07] <nsnzero> i just ticked (enabled) all the custom settings and bob's your uncle - perfect working ssh  
[09:10] <theblazehen> nsnzero: Patch it btw
[09:10] <theblazehen> Bad vulnerability a couple days back
[09:11] <theblazehen> Whoops, weeks*
[09:11] <theblazehen> https://kb.netgear.com/000037343/Security-Advisory-for-Remote-Command-Execution-and-CSRF-Vulnerabilities-on-DGN2200
[09:11] <theblazehen> Which reminds me, I have another one to report to them...
[09:18] <theblazehen> https://bugcrowd.com/netgear eh, not listed. It's just router admin access -> root anyway
[09:19] <theblazehen> Dunno if I should bother
[09:21] <nsnzero> they arent releasing patches for the old netgear - solution buy a new 1- according to them
[09:21] <theblazehen> > NETGEAR strongly recommends that all users change their modem router’s administrator password from the default password. If you change your admin password from the default password, your modem router is protected from the remote command execution vulnerability as well as the CSRF vulnerability. Changing your administrator password is also a good security practice.
[09:21] <theblazehen> Wow. Expected a patch...
[09:22]  * theblazehen wouldn't use a normal router directly imo
[09:22] <theblazehen> Just pass through the PPPoE connection
[09:26] <nsnzero> change your password and you will be ok - fingers crossed 
[11:56] <theblazehen> nsnzero: I got debian to run on my DGN2200v3 :)
[11:58] <theblazehen> v4*
[11:58] <theblazehen> https://www.reddit.com/r/debian/comments/44gv6i/debian_runs_on_anything_debian_running_on_my_adsl/
[11:58] <theblazehen> Swap usage though...  Ouch
[12:01] <nsnzero> i wanted to say no ways - but the facts are there 
[12:09] <theblazehen> heh :) 
[12:09] <theblazehen> Heh, just realized, even if I report that vulnerability to them, they're not gonna patch it anyway
[12:09] <theblazehen> Another reason not to bother
[12:10] <theblazehen> Aand I just realized I linked my reddit account. Whoops
[12:11] <theblazehen> nsnzero: If you wanna try it out, enable telnet, log in to telnet, then you can "echo `whoami`" etc 
[12:12] <theblazehen> Plug in a usb stick with busybox on, and create a telnet server or whatever
[12:12] <theblazehen> then just throw a <insertDistroHere> chroot on there, and run sshd or whatever you want
[12:13] <nsnzero> i have a spare spare netgear at home - i will try it out if i remember
[12:15] <nsnzero> now this got me thinking of installing linux onto a nextbook i got lying around 
[12:26] <nsnzero> have a good afternoon guys
[13:21] <andrewlsd> theblazehen: changing the default password should be mandator. Surprised so many routers allow user to leave that at factory setting.
[13:21] <theblazehen> andrewlsd: Heh. I have one that breaks when I tried to change the password...
[16:30] <nsnzero> evening all
[17:07] <superfly> hi
[17:08] <theblazehen> hi all
[18:26] <theblazehen> Just realized I didn't enable VT-x in my bios :( And fixing that would require a reboot