[03:31] <Spass> OK, so besides that Whisker Menu bugs that I already reported on bugzilla, seems like Window Buttons plugin could have a issue too
[03:32] <Spass> it should be very easy to reproduce, open anything and while that window is active click on Window Button on the panel that represents that window and move cursor away
[03:33] <Spass> the window is still active but now the Window Button shows as it wasn't
[03:34] <Spass> tried on couple different themes, someone can confirm?
[03:39] <Spass> tested some more, it only appears when I have "Middle click action: Minimize Window" option in the plugin's settings
[03:41] <Spass> so it's very minor
[03:51] <Spass> same on 16.04, just checked, but I can only assume it's unlikely that it bothers someone (besides me) and I should just live with it and don't file a bug report on that
[06:30] <flocculant> bluesabre: ha ha ha 
[06:32] <ochosi> flocculant: so from what i read the thunar patch seems to work well..?
[06:33] <flocculant> ochosi: yup :)
[06:33] <flocculant> I have just seem a comment though about some other issue (maybe)
[06:34] <flocculant> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunar/+bug/1679488/comments/17
[06:35] <flocculant> no idea if that's patched thunar or current - asked for clarification
[06:35] <flocculant> ochosi: see Spass's comments above re window button also
[06:36] <flocculant> I'm assuming that if not critical - bugs in that sort of thing will liekely be ignored for gtk2 but cared about for gtk3 ?
[06:36] <flocculant> if that's the case I can make sure to tell people
[06:38] <ochosi> yeah, that's likely going to be the case
[06:41] <flocculant> ok - thought so - certainly logical :)
[06:45] <ochosi> regarding thunar, please keep me updated as i'll have to push the fix to master then at some point and also prep a release
[06:46] <flocculant> ochosi: ack - just seen a dupe - getting more info there too
[06:46] <flocculant> ochosi: maybe early next week for me to say ok :)
[06:47] <ochosi> yup
[06:47] <ochosi> that's ok
[06:47] <ochosi> bbabl
[07:01] <flocculant> so this is fun, firefox (maybe) hangs - ubuntu-bug just sits there, lovely load average, killall appears to work, kill -9 appears to work - but ff process still shows in top - and task manager tells me I have no processes running at all \o/ http://i.imgur.com/0jkZRiW.png
[07:01] <flocculant> wondering if in fact it's an issue elsewhere ....
[07:07] <flocculant> had to reboot too 
[07:29] <flocculant> Spass: you about uk/europe evening time? 
[08:05] <Spass> flocculant: you're asking about my time zone? sorry, my brain does not work properly now
[08:06] <Spass> yep, that's the same bug/freeze I had couple hours ago
[08:07] <Spass> and I had another weird one recently, with firefox :/
[08:08] <Spass> I blame systemd :P JK, I have no idea how systemd really works
[08:12] <Spass> and about that 'ubuntu-bug firefox' command. I tried it the second time firefox froze and I got a message that firefox isn't an Ubuntu package so it cannot be reported by this tool, something like that
[08:56] <knome> are you using firefox from a PPA?
[08:58] <Spass> no, from zesty repos
[09:10] <Unit193> `apt-cache policy firefox | pastebinit`
[09:13] <Spass> http://paste.ubuntu.com/24419109/
[09:15] <Spass> so, I have version from yakkety?
[09:17] <Spass> zesty - 52.0.1, all the rest - 52.0.2, according to packages.ubuntu.com
[09:20] <Unit193> Yeah, with a few things they really mess up the upgrade path, you can "fix" that one with `apt-get install firefox/zesty`, apt list | grep ed,loc  will show you what other packages you can no longer downlod from repos.
[09:29] <Unit193> flocculant: I may have pushed something to a PPA that you won't really care about.
[09:31] <Spass> ok, now I have "proper" zesty version installed on my system, too bad it's affected by a bug ("crash on startup on Linux") that was fixed in 52.0.2 :P
[09:32] <Unit193> Hah, so you don't have PA?
[09:33] <Unit193> I'd think 53 would hit soon enough.
[09:34] <Spass> yeah, I think/hope the same
[09:36] <Spass> last couple days was pretty buggy for me unfortunately
[09:40] <Spass> I hope I'm wrong, but I think that future couple months will be hard for Xubuntu and Xfce (brace yourself, wayland is coming)
[09:41] <Unit193> Wayland has been coming for years now...
[09:42] <Unit193> Spass: The "downgrading" is so you can report it, if you have an issue I'd "upgrade" back to the yak one.
[09:44] <Spass> thx, I'll do that if necessary, I know that Wayland is "old news", but seems like it's getting momentum lately
[09:44] <Unit193> Not in Xfce, sooo. :P
[09:48] <sorinello_> :))
[09:49] <sorinello_> so xubuntu will not switch to wayland from 17.10 ?
[09:52] <Unit193> AHah!
[09:53] <Spass> I'm just hoping that ubuntu fully embracing the 'gnome way' won't be harmful to Xubuntu, but this could be just my lack of knowledge about ubuntu<>xubuntu relation and dependency
[09:53] <sorinello_> :o
[09:54] <sorinello_> such a pity
[09:57] <Spass> like, for example (Ubuntu saying) - "We're on GNOME now, so we don't need that, that, and that, we don't need to support that package... and also cut this from repos."
[09:59] <sorinello_> I don't think so because there are other distros that are officially supported, like xubuntu. Also, with the adoption of Gnome I imagine the number of supported packages will actually increase to acomodate Gnome
[10:02] <Spass> I'm not worried about Ubuntu supporting what's needed for GNOME to work (they must do that obviously), I'm worried about them cutting something useful for Xubuntu
[10:02] <sorinello_> don't think so, they usually shouldn't drop anything without a discussion
[10:03] <Spass> what's with panel indicators for example?
[10:05] <Spass> discussion is great, but will it be partner<->partner or boss<->employee type of conversation
[10:05] <sorinello_> I see it more as a partner partner relation
[10:05] <sorinello_> since xubuntu is an official distro
[10:06] <Spass> you have an insight knowledge or you are just a optimist, unlike me :)
[10:06] <sorinello_> I consider my self realist
[10:07] <sorinello_> they can't just drop something critical because xubuntu won't work no more and it would become a broken distro
[10:07] <sorinello_> and officially supported broken distro
[10:07] <sorinello_> I am not afraid that as long as there is an efficient communication, this will not happen
[10:08] <Spass> you're probably right
[10:09] <Spass> still, "official distro/flavour" is just a title, given by canonical, they can give they can take
[10:10] <sorinello_> it's not in their nature nor interest to do that
[10:10] <sorinello_> the recent changes and news regarding Ubuntu are due to Cannonical re-organizing as a business/corporation
[10:14] <Spass> I know recent news, they're reorganizing and they're cutting jobs, looking to save costs and become a "real company"
[10:14] <sorinello_> yes
[10:15] <sorinello_> but they are not stopping anyone to support certain packages
[10:15] <sorinello_> my point is that they are not stopping open source communities, they are just re-focusing their business
[10:19] <Unit193> My concern would be things growing depends because "Well it works in GNOME" thus becoming less useful, or at least more harmful, to Xubuntu and !GNOME really.  Packages shouldn't just disappear, the ones you'd have to be the most concerned with are Canonical projects (like indicators and lightdm.)
[10:20] <Spass> my concern is strictly about my favourite distro - Xubuntu, I know that other distros (and Xfce) will be alive and well regarding on what's happening at Canonical offices
[10:20] <Unit193> However, most of this is more of a discussion for -ot anywho.
[10:20] <Spass> yeah, sorry for that Unit193
[10:22] <Spass> you guys probably discussed that hundreds of times already
[10:23] <sorinello_> I didn't. I'm a silent watcher of the xubuntu community for 2 years now, but never quite engaged in discussions
[10:23] <Spass> I'll try to control my pessimism while on IRC
[10:47] <Spass> xfce 13509 is probably a bigger issue, according to comment #3
[11:13] <flocculant> Unit193: which ppa might you have pushed something I won't really care about enough to look at?
[11:13] <ochosi> Spass: andrzejr also noticed that bug some days ago and mentioned it (at least i think this is the same issue) ^
[11:13] <Unit193> flocculant: xubuntu-staging
[11:13] <flocculant> ochosi: I've managed to see similar with the gtk3 set 
[11:14] <flocculant> Unit193: ooh - ok - cheers :)
[11:21] <flocculant> torrents have slowed down now
[11:21] <Spass> ochosi: thanks for the info, btw my second name is Andrzej :)
[11:34] <ochosi> flocculant: yes, andrzejr reported it against gtk3
[11:34] <ochosi> some flickering of the plugin
[12:10] <akxwi-dave> flocculant:  snap...  60 for 386, 110 for 64..   
[12:26] <Unit193> Hmm, when does 14.04 EOL?
[12:49] <akxwi-dave> ubuntu 14.01 april 2019,  Xubuntu now i think ..   don't e support for 3 years?
[12:49] <akxwi-dave> 14.01*
[12:49] <akxwi-dave> 14.04*
[12:49] <akxwi-dave> blooming keyboard
[16:14] <flocculant> ochosi: ok - wasn't positive whether that was gtk2/3
[16:16] <flocculant> akxwi-dave: testing iso's - encrypt and oem were both optional, see no reason why we shouldn't run once them both
[16:17] <flocculant> lubuntu have had an issue where a machine with no internet dodn't install properly - we don't have the issue - I checked, but now there is a install with no internet testcase - wondering whether we have that as run once too
[16:17] <flocculant> bluesabre ^^ and anyone else interested enought to comment
[17:30] <krytarik> Oh crap, seems we got a name: "[xubuntu.artful] r1010  platform.zesty -> platform.artful"
[17:30] <flocculant> wut?
[17:39] <flocculant> oic ... artful alcoholic
[18:04] <krytarik> hahaha
[18:04] <flocculant> :)
[18:11] <krytarik> "Artful Aardvark" - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/artful/
[18:14] <flocculant> :)
[18:27] <akxwi-dave> flocculant: agree..  change em to run once
[18:39] <genii> Default !info package for -devel channels is now set for artful, thanks Pici
[19:33] <flocculant> release note is started :p
[19:33] <krytarik> lol
[19:34] <flocculant> so's my grab some iso's and stuff script lol
[19:39] <flocculant> akxwi-dave: what about the no net install test?
[19:39] <akxwi-dave> hmmm..   aye we better cover all bases... stick that as a run once aswell
[19:41] <flocculant> ok
[19:43] <flocculant> and done
[19:43] <flocculant> akxwi-dave: spend a bit of time thinking about package testing - given the odd things we've been seeing of late might be sensible to start that up again
[19:45] <flocculant> hopefully we'll see more of that stevehope during the cycle
[19:45] <akxwi-dave> have been thinking about that as well..  we really should do a full test on them again, especially as 18.04 is just around the corner
[19:45] <flocculant> mmmm
[19:46] <akxwi-dave> also get new testers used to seeing the full list of tests..
[19:46] <flocculant> yea
[19:46] <akxwi-dave> i know it will probably be just me testing them ...but hey.. its a start  :-)
[19:47] <flocculant> well - it is sometime since we used a full list - 14.04 I think :)
[19:47] <akxwi-dave> :-) probably.. i do remember spending a full day going thru em all
[19:50] <flocculant> ha ha 
[20:10] <flocculant> lol 
[20:10] <flocculant> so long ago gmusicbrowser is a mandatory test :D
[20:11] <flocculant> akxwi-dave: somewhere to plan package testing http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-artful-packages
[20:12] <akxwi-dave> right guys.. afraid time to go.. taking the wife to the pub..  i'll take a look at the ML and testing in the morning...
[20:14] <flocculant> akxwi-dave: hf
[20:14] <akxwi-dave> :-)
[20:14] <akxwi-dave> nn
[20:51] <ochosi> i'd have preferred "artsy" over artful
[20:51] <ochosi> can we at least internally dub it that please?
[20:52] <flocculant> really? I'd never have guessed :p
[20:52] <flocculant> ochosi: I will call it artsy alky just for you :D
[20:52] <ochosi> :D
[21:00] <ochosi> guess i've compiled and installed a bit too much in my system, the upgrader complains about it and won't let me do the upgrade :p
[21:00] <flocculant> ha ha 
[21:00] <flocculant> be brave and sed the sources :p
[21:00] <flocculant> but backup too 
[21:01] <ochosi> backup shmackup
[21:02] <ochosi> http://i.imgur.com/WirgeJH.png
[21:03] <flocculant> :)
[21:07] <flocculant> ochosi: I assume this is yakkety to zesty :p
[21:07] <ochosi> yup
[21:08] <flocculant> the one time in a cycle when we use the same version - just before I can be bothered to set myself up to fall :D
[21:10] <flocculant> knome: how easy is it to edit 'Links' on http://dev.xubuntu.org/#tab-qa ?
[21:10] <flocculant> or where is code? 
[21:12] <ochosi> nah, i often use the devel version ;)
[21:12] <ochosi> just not during the last two cycles
[21:12] <flocculant> :)
[21:12] <ochosi> was too busy with work
[21:12] <ochosi> and wanted to keep my dev environment
[21:13] <flocculant> yea I realise that :)
[21:14] <ochosi> still fixing stuff in the panel..
[21:14] <knome> currently, it's basically on the dev server
[21:14] <knome> what do you need though?
[21:15] <flocculant> just thinking about being more specific 
[21:16] <knome> sure, just send me the things you want there (for now - again, when we get the new tracker stuff going, you can edit it yourself)
[21:16] <flocculant> but not important at the moment 
[21:16] <knome> oki
[21:16] <flocculant> knome: my thinking is Current LTS Current Non-LTS 
[21:16] <knome> i'll be away from tomorrow 12UTCish and forward (at latest), then back on late monday night and not for "hard" work as we'll most likely have overnight guests
[21:17] <flocculant> but LTS would need changing as milestones - as would daily
[21:17] <knome> hmmh.
[21:17] <flocculant> yea - as I said this is not important/urgent at all
[21:18] <knome> ok, i'll look at it next week
[21:18] <flocculant> saves sending mails - oh respun, oh respun, oh respun
[21:18] <knome> and make it editable for you... :P
[21:18] <flocculant> :)
[21:19] <knome> or today
[21:19] <knome> not decided what i want/need to do...
[21:20] <flocculant> lol
[23:54] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r506 Improved Button Backgrounds (less edges between buttons and ... (by rod)