[08:37] <ochosi> so since it was mentioned by flocculant in -ot, i've been chatting up Trevinho regarding indicators and their future and he told me that it was currently undecided
[08:37] <ochosi> it's possible that they will decide in the next meeting/s how that is going to continue
[08:37] <ochosi> meanwhile i've noticed they've been exploring indicator-application extensions for gnome shell
[08:38] <Unit193> Thanks for letting us know...
[08:38] <ochosi> so we should probably follow their next meeting minutes a little
[08:38] <ochosi> or ping them again in a week or two
[08:39] <flocculant> ochosi: their meetings are usually at a time I'm active so will actively idle 
[08:39] <ochosi> my personal feeling is that we may be able to live without many of them, but indicator-application will be hard to replace
[08:39] <ochosi> flocculant: thanks, cool!
[08:39] <ochosi> we have a potential replacement for -sound with the pulseaudio plugin
[08:39] <flocculant> and anything I see that could affect us I'll ping or forward to us
[08:40] <flocculant> ochosi: ack - have had a little play with that lately
[08:40] <ochosi> and then there's only -messages which we ship by default
[08:40] <ochosi> flocculant: and what's your feeling/feedback?
[08:40] <flocculant> it works 
[08:40] <ochosi> (also, we can easily patch that up a little, the code is not overly complex or long)
[08:41] <flocculant> but mostly music playback I'm using alsa and ofc all the pulse stuff stops while I'm playing music
[08:42] <flocculant> though I might revert to pa now I've worked out how to stop it downsampling 
[08:42] <ochosi> the main downside of the pulseaudio plugin is that it doesn't have playback control
[08:42] <flocculant> right - but I never use thatanyway 
[08:42] <ochosi> so mpris support would have to be patched in, and that's probably not a small effort
[08:43] <flocculant> biab
[08:46] <Unit193> -application, that's for displaying indicators.  But most, if not all, fall back to a tray icon so that doesn't seem like a big deal either.
[08:48] <ochosi> Unit193: while that is true, the trayicons have some downsides (scaling and usability mostly)
[08:49] <ochosi> so yeah, it's not like we'll lose a lot of functionality, but some convenience and usability
[08:49] <Unit193> Amusingly, I'm forcing dropbox to use the icon because it's more useful.  Indicators have no mouseover support, icons do.
[08:57] <Unit193> It'd certainly be a bummer to lose them, but lightdm.... Yikes.
[09:02] <ochosi> i thought lightdm's future was secured?
[09:04] <flocculant> not sure that's the case, but more people are pro-keeping it than not from the m/l discussion
[09:05] <flocculant> sigh - can't remember why I've got 2 volume indicators when using the pa plugin
[09:08] <flocculant> oh suddenly I only have 1
[09:08] <Unit193> All 5 have been accpeted now. \o/
[09:08] <Spass> speaking about indicators, sometimes the icons are duplicated in the notification area - https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8qh4-wxxEZ7S1VVV0Q4OUlDVXc
[09:08] <flocculant> or 2
[09:08] <Spass> is it a known issue?
[09:09] <flocculant> transmission does that as well
[09:09] <Unit193> xfce4-dict, xfce4-genmon-plugin, xfce4-mount-plugin all might need some going over.
[09:09] <Unit193> Spass: Fixed whisker is in AA.
[09:09] <Spass> mostly it's ok, sometimes just one of these icon are duplicated, sometime both, very random
[09:09] <flocculant> Unit193: are these in ppa or in repo?
[09:10] <Unit193> flocculant: Repo proper, as of right now.  Got a notification.
[09:11] <Spass> Unit193: ok thanks for the info, I hope the bug with scrolling will be fixed too, fingers crossed
[09:11] <flocculant> ok cool - I'll check out later
[09:11] <flocculant> Unit193: as far as things coming up that need some testing - we need somewhere to note that rather than in channel
[09:11] <flocculant> I'll think about that
[09:13] <flocculant> also happy to test from git as well
[09:13] <flocculant> bbl - clock tells me I'm late :p
[17:10] <flocculant> Unit193: got those now - installed genmon and mount
[17:17] <ochosi> flocculant, Unit193: what up with those two?
[17:38] <flocculant> ochosi: nothing up as such - just 2 plugins extra in repo now, so I grabbed them to check them out
[17:39] <flocculant> ochosi: and also note to unit earlier - which counts for you and bluesabre "as far as things coming up that need some testing - we need somewhere to note that rather than in channel"
[17:39] <flocculant> but not thought about it more than that yet :)
[17:55] <akxwi-dave> a page on x.org would be nice under QA .. where  we can add these things
[17:55] <akxwi-dave> xubuntu.org that is
[17:56] <flocculant> was thinking of a pad or wiki.x.o tbh
[18:02] <flocculant> or even the dev tracker notepad - that's there already
[18:03] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r507 xfwm4-compact: Enlarged button images for better spacing and... (by RalphBike)
[18:03] -SwissBot:#xubuntu-devel- ::xubuntu-artwork:: [greybird] r508 Reference plank theme in readme... (by Simon Steinbeiß)
[18:03] <flocculant> Unit193 ochosi - though I've no clue what the genmon thing does :D
[18:26] <ochosi> flocculant: it monitors anything ;)
[18:27] <flocculant> oh - ok :)
[19:42] <flocculant> Unit193: you told me back a while - why would I have 2 volume notifications? got the xfce pulse plugin, hidden sound in indicators and removed ind-sound 
[20:11] <Unit193> flocculant: I did?  That seems like a logical reason you'd have two.  And not really used all the things I listed, but some are going GTK3.
[20:18] <Unit193> flocculant: And that's to say, you want us to note all uploads we do somewhere other than here?
[20:20] <flocculant> Unit193: only if they need specifically checking/testing etc
[20:31] <flocculant> an re vol notification - not sure where the other is coming from now :)
[21:36] <ochosi> flocculant: could you check for me what happens with a gtk2 panel and right-clicking a window group of >1 windows? i get broken icons for maximize all, minimize all and close all
[21:37] <ochosi> and i'm wondering whether that is really my doing or whether those icons were never there
[21:37] <flocculant> just booting vm
[21:37] <ochosi> thanks!
[21:40] <flocculant> ochosi: you mean window buttons > window grouping > always? those icons? 
[21:40] <ochosi> yes
[21:40] <ochosi> in the context menu of a group
[21:40] <ochosi> so when right-clicking it
[21:41] <flocculant> yep - on 17.04 vm I have icons for minimize and maximize and close (all)
[21:42] <ochosi> weird, i can't even find those icons in my installation
[21:42] <ochosi> supposedly it's stuff like wnck-stock-maximize
[21:43] <flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/IvIFmGf.png these I hope :)
[21:43] <ochosi> yup
[21:43] <ochosi> i presume your gtk3 panel also still has those..?
[21:43] <flocculant> cool - we're almost in sync then on what we mean when we say things :D
[21:43] <ochosi> hehe
[21:43] <flocculant> nope - I just rebuilt the gtk3 thing to see the lock hamdles
[21:45] <ochosi> so in gtk3 the icons are gone..?
[21:45] <flocculant> yea
[21:45] <bluesabre> evening all
[21:45] <ochosi> oh hey, evening bluesabre 
[21:45] <flocculant> ochosi: don't forget that I am AA now with our zesty ppa's 
[21:45] <bluesabre> how's it going ochosi and flocculant?
[21:46] <flocculant> cos bluesabre is lagging :D
[21:46] <ochosi> flocculant: that shouldn't make a difference
[21:46] <flocculant> bluesabre: all goot here :)
[21:46] <ochosi> hehe, he *is* !
[21:46] <bluesabre> goot to hear
[21:46] <flocculant> ochosi: ok - just wanted to to be sure you knew :)
[21:47] <ochosi> bluesabre: busy with the panel mostly, other than that busy with work and life ;)
[21:47] <bluesabre> flocculant: always ahead of the game, huh?
[21:47] <flocculant> bluesabre: :p
[21:49] <ochosi> bluesabre: you?
[21:50] <flocculant> bluesabre: keeping 2 running this cycle just in case change to gnome causes us issues - 1 will be a logout behind, got aliases to chroot and update set up to make that easy
[21:50] <bluesabre> ochosi: not bad, was without a monitor for a few days, so lagging behind on AA
[21:50] <flocculant> ha ha 
[21:50] <bluesabre> that and playing the new Zelda, who has time for anything? :D
[21:50] <ochosi> huhu
[21:51] <flocculant> :)
[22:09] <ochosi> flocculant: what does the handle style look like in gtk2 again for the taskbar?
[22:09] <ochosi> sorry, i should probably do this with a docker instance myself instead of pestering you all the time...
[22:09] <flocculant> :)
[22:10] <flocculant> I couldn't get that docker thing working 
[22:10] <flocculant> http://i.imgur.com/wIUIYka.png 48px
[22:11] <flocculant> oh hang on? taskbar?
[22:11] <ochosi> yeah, sry, taskbar, not panel
[22:11] <flocculant> wth is the taskbar :)
[22:12] <ochosi> the "window buttons" plugin
[22:12] <ochosi> :)
[22:12] <flocculant> oh right
[22:12] <ochosi> not sure why there is that naming mismatch
[22:12] <ochosi> i presume it's historical
[22:14] <flocculant> ochosi: http://i.imgur.com/N1FPM4f.png id you can see the handles you have awesome eyes ...
[22:14] <flocculant> I turned labels off there btw
[22:14] <ochosi> that's gtk2?
[22:14] <ochosi> crazy stuff. that really doesn't work with dark panels at all
[22:14] <flocculant> that's 17.04
[22:17] <flocculant> bluesabre: I saw you talking about the panel backup doodah a while back - is 'when I use the backup doodah, it doesn't close the panel prefs' something you thought about?
[22:18] <flocculant> ochosi: 17.04 is gtk2 isn't it? 
[22:18] <ochosi> yup
[22:18] <flocculant> I got sooo confused last cycle lol
[22:18] <bluesabre> flocculant: it has to, since it restarts the panel to achieve what it does
[22:18] <flocculant> bluesabre: oh yea - didn't think about that :)
[22:19] <flocculant> bluesabre: should it then shutdown prefs for some panel plugin you might have open - what if that plugin is no longer in the panel?
[22:20] <flocculant> or is that 'scratch that itch yourself' territory :p
[22:23] <bluesabre> flocculant: probably, but not sure if there is a great way to do that
[22:23] <flocculant> ok - well it's great as it is then :D
[22:23] <bluesabre> flocculant: we can have it make you log out when done
[22:23] <flocculant> ok 
[22:24]  * flocculant installs a pad of paper and pen
[22:30] <Unit193> bluesabre: We gonna sru xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin?
[22:37] <bluesabre> Unit193: sure thing