[00:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted python-ase [amd64] (artful-proposed) [3.13.0-1]
[00:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted ubuntu-mate-artwork [amd64] (artful-proposed) [17.10.0]
[00:20] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted qtcharts-opensource-src [sync] (artful-proposed) [5.7.1-3]
[00:20] <tsimonq2> jbicha: YAY! qtcharts-opensource-src \o/
[00:20]  * tsimonq2 packaged that, happy to see it show up here \o/
[00:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: qtcharts-opensource-src [ppc64el] (artful-proposed/none) [5.7.1-3] (no packageset)
[00:28] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: qtcharts-opensource-src [i386] (artful-proposed/none) [5.7.1-3] (no packageset)
[00:29] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: qtcharts-opensource-src [s390x] (artful-proposed/universe) [5.7.1-3] (no packageset)
[00:33] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: qtcharts-opensource-src [armhf] (artful-proposed/universe) [5.7.1-3] (no packageset)
[00:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: qtcharts-opensource-src [arm64] (artful-proposed/universe) [5.7.1-3] (no packageset)
[00:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: qtcharts-opensource-src [amd64] (artful-proposed/universe) [5.7.1-3] (no packageset)
[08:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted qtcharts-opensource-src [amd64] (artful-proposed) [5.7.1-3]
[08:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted qtcharts-opensource-src [armhf] (artful-proposed) [5.7.1-3]
[08:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted qtcharts-opensource-src [ppc64el] (artful-proposed) [5.7.1-3]
[08:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted qtcharts-opensource-src [arm64] (artful-proposed) [5.7.1-3]
[08:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted qtcharts-opensource-src [s390x] (artful-proposed) [5.7.1-3]
[08:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted qtcharts-opensource-src [i386] (artful-proposed) [5.7.1-3]
[15:05] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New sync: libva-utils (artful-proposed/primary) [1.8.1+ds1-1]
[15:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libass [amd64] (artful-proposed/universe) [1:0.13.6-1] (kubuntu)
[15:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libass [ppc64el] (artful-proposed/universe) [1:0.13.6-1] (kubuntu)
[15:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libass [i386] (artful-proposed/universe) [1:0.13.6-1] (kubuntu)
[15:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libass [s390x] (artful-proposed/universe) [1:0.13.6-1] (kubuntu)
[15:08] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libass [arm64] (artful-proposed/universe) [1:0.13.6-1] (kubuntu)
[15:09] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: libass [armhf] (artful-proposed/universe) [1:0.13.6-1] (kubuntu)
[15:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libass [amd64] (artful-proposed) [1:0.13.6-1]
[15:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libass [armhf] (artful-proposed) [1:0.13.6-1]
[15:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libass [s390x] (artful-proposed) [1:0.13.6-1]
[15:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libass [arm64] (artful-proposed) [1:0.13.6-1]
[15:36] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libass [i386] (artful-proposed) [1:0.13.6-1]
[15:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New: accepted libass [ppc64el] (artful-proposed) [1:0.13.6-1]
[19:10]  * infinity demotes large chunks of $world to universe.
[19:17] <jbicha> infinity: we might want folks in main for gnome-contacts or gnome-maps
[19:20] <infinity> jbicha: It can come back later if that's needed.  I assume lots of gnome will shuffle around.
[19:20] <jbicha> that's probably several weeks anyway, thanks!
[19:20] <infinity> jbicha: The only demotion so far that I've explicitly undone is network-manager-openvpn.
[19:27] <infinity> jbicha: Yeah, as I go down this list, I'm guessing almost all of the telepathy stack will end up coming back.  But I'd rather keep the reports clean from day 1 for once.  I drove everything to 0 (for the first time in a long time) before zesty release, so good to try to keep it that way.
[19:28] <infinity> (At least it'll come back by way of telepathy-glib instead of telepathy-qt ... I used to work on both at Collabora, and lemme tell you, one is a much nicer piece of software)
[19:30] <jbicha> oh, I didn't know you were at Collabora
[19:30] <jbicha> I believe telepathy is no longer required by our GNOME stack, so it might stay in universe
[19:30] <jbicha> FYI, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/GNOME/MIR_List
[19:43] <infinity> slangasek: I'm thinking we should drop /win 163
[19:43] <infinity> Err.
[19:43] <infinity> Yes.  Drop win 163.
[19:43] <infinity> slangasek: I'm thinking we should drop ubuntu-touch from main.  At least, I tihnk that's what's still holding in a few bits and bobs.
[19:44] <jbicha> If you really have 163+ windows, I think you should drop some! :)
[19:45] <infinity> I have a few more, probably.
[21:17] <mwhudson> oo i can actually do some work today
[21:25] <zx2c4> I've got a rather pressing matter to discuss regarding the Ubuntu release process and a particular package that's posing some significant issues. Is there somebody from Canonical I could talk to in here? Thanks. --Jason
[21:26] <infinity> zx2c4: Don't ask to ask, just ask.
[21:28] <infinity> zx2c4: Although, specific issues with specific packages are usually better expressed as bug reports on said package, not a general issue with "the release process".
[21:28] <infinity> (But I suppose that depends on the nature of the bug)
[21:33] <zx2c4> hey infinity
[21:33] <zx2c4> infinity: still there?
[21:34] <zx2c4> i was just writing you an email
[21:37] <cjwatson> This is about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wireguard/+bug/1685522, since zx2c4 seems to be averse to just coming out and saying so directly
[21:37] <zx2c4> no im in the middle of typing my message!
[21:37] <zx2c4> hold on
[21:38] <infinity> zx2c4: While you were busy typing your message, I demoted it to proposed and blocked it from migrating.
[21:38] <zx2c4> I'm working on a piece of software for the Linux kernel called WireGuard. It's currently experimental, but still very usable. It has not reached a 1.0 release or even an 0.1 release. I do occasionally tag snapshots in the repo, and distributions package these snapshots, because wireguard is very useful. But it's still clearly marked as being experimental and
[21:38] <zx2c4> potentially dangerous. The pact between wireguard upstream and the distros is that if they package it, they _will_ keep their snapshot up to date. Thus, for Debian, Daniel Kahn Gillmor (dkg) has pinned the package in Debian `sid`, with a note that it shouldn't [yet] go into testing or stable, since it is experimental software. Ubuntu screwed up and somehow
[21:38] <zx2c4> imported an ancient snapshot from Debian, which is absolutely unacceptable. Either Ubuntu should not package wireguard at all, or they should keep it up to date with the Debian package. I'd most certianly prefer the latter
[21:39] <zx2c4> infinity: what does that mean exactly?
[21:39] <infinity> zx2c4: Effectively the same thing as "keeping it in sid" means in Debian.  It'll never be in another stable release until that bug is closed.
[21:39] <zx2c4> oh, interesting
[21:39] <zx2c4> so I should bookmark this bug so that I can chime in once we do reach the 0.1/1.0 release
[21:40] <infinity> zx2c4: Ubuntu didn't "screw up".  We import from Debian wholesale.
[21:40] <zx2c4> Ahh
[21:40] <zx2c4> I thought it was tagged in Debian with a special marking to prevent this?
[21:40] <zx2c4> I'm not too familiar with the release internals
[21:40] <infinity> zx2c4: We import from sid, not testing.
[21:40] <zx2c4> Is there a way that you can set this package up to continually import from sid so that it's up to date?
[21:41] <zx2c4> I'd love to have an up to date wireguard package -- and i know others would too, as it's being included in Docker's new Moby/LinuxKit project -- in ubuntu
[21:41] <infinity> zx2c4: It will do so automatically in the devel release, sure.  We don't automatically import or update anything in stable releases.
[21:41] <zx2c4> Ahhh, interesting
[21:41] <zx2c4> So Zesty is what you call a "stable" releaes?
[21:41] <infinity> As of 10 days ago, yes.
[21:41] <zx2c4> Everytime you give something a number -- 16.10, 17.04, 17.10, 17.04... these are "stable" and are a snapshot of sid at the time
[21:42] <zx2c4> Okay, so has this snapshot been entirely removed from Zesty now?
[21:42] <jbicha> is it possible to make wireguard into a snap package?
[21:42] <infinity> It's not a snapshot of sid, per se.  We do auto-imports from sid during our devel cycle, then stop near the end so we can stabilise and prep for release.
[21:42] <zx2c4> infinity: i dont want users to install that old snapshot under any circumstances
[21:42] <infinity> zx2c4: No, it hasn't been removed from zesty.  We don't alter released series' (except with bugfix/security updates).
[21:43] <zx2c4> jbicha: the ubuntu wireguard people have this -- https://launchpad.net/~wireguard/+archive/ubuntu/wireguard -- which is a nice PPA.
[21:43] <zx2c4> infinity: that's very unfortunate
[21:43] <cjwatson> If it has to be removed from zesty then the only way would be to issue an "update" which is in fact an empty package.
[21:43] <infinity> zx2c4: If the package is that dire for people to install, it could be replaced with an empty package with a note explaining the situation.
[21:43] <zx2c4> infinity: i'd highly recommend doing what cjwatson recommends
[21:43] <zx2c4> okay, let's do that then
[21:43] <zx2c4> you could even point to the wireguard PPA
[21:44] <zx2c4> (which is actively maintained)
[21:44] <zx2c4> Would you like me to draft a note?
[21:44] <infinity> Note that probably none of us are keen to go to that trouble on your behalf, but feel free to proposed a package on that bug for someone to sponsor for you.
[21:44] <jbicha> zx2c4: it sounds like you want wireguard completely removed from Ubuntu so that it won't automatically import from Debian at all
[21:44] <infinity> s/proposed/propose/
[21:45] <zx2c4> infinity: how does that work?
[21:45] <zx2c4> should I write an .deb package
[21:45] <zx2c4> and attach a tarball?
[21:45] <zx2c4> and then you'll get that tarball included?
[21:46] <infinity> Attach a source package, sure.  Probably wants a NEWS.Debian that explains the situation for people who did have it installed.
[21:46] <zx2c4> infinity: okay
[21:46] <zx2c4> would you mind if i ask dkg to help me with this?
[21:46] <zx2c4> He's a debian guy and will probably screw up less of the fine details than me
[21:46] <zx2c4> (I'm just a measly kernel programmer)
[21:46] <infinity> Sure.
[21:47] <zx2c4> cool okay
[21:47] <zx2c4> And then after it's posted, you can easily click some buttons to import it?
[21:47] <zx2c4> Should the version number be the same but a "-2" instead?
[21:47] <cjwatson> append ubuntu16.04.1
[21:48] <zx2c4> cjwatson: okay
[21:48] <zx2c4> ill get to work on this immediately
[21:48] <zx2c4> infinity: cjwatson thanks so much for your help. really appreciated
[21:48] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates is the process for stable updates
[21:48] <zx2c4> i should have come in here and asked straight-up from the beginning
[21:49] <cjwatson> (though that tries to cover all bases and "replace with empty package" is probably a bit simpler)
[21:49] <cjwatson> Yeah, it would have been much easier if this had been noticed pre-release.
[21:49] <infinity> Indeed, asking 11 days ago would have saved some hassle.
[21:49] <infinity> Oh well.
[21:49] <zx2c4> infinity: i didnt realize until a few days ago
[21:49] <zx2c4> when i saw, "oh cool zesty is out I should see how wireguard runs on it"
[21:50] <zx2c4> and then i imported the ppa but forgot to apt update after
[21:50] <zx2c4> but then wireguard actually apt install'd okay
[21:50] <zx2c4> and then i figured out what had happened
[21:50] <jbicha> pkil gnome-software
[21:51] <infinity> No command 'pkil' found, did you mean:
[21:51] <infinity>  Command 'pil' from package 'picolisp' (universe)
[21:51] <infinity>  Command 'pki' from package 'strongswan-pki' (universe)
[21:51] <infinity>  Command 'pki' from package 'pki-tools' (universe)
[21:51] <infinity>  Command 'pkill' from package 'procps' (main)
[21:51] <infinity> pkil: command not found
[21:51] <infinity> jbicha: HTH.
[21:54] <cjwatson> Just thinking about avoiding this type of problem at the infrastructure level in future
[21:56] <cjwatson> How about we only auto-sync *new* packages by default once they (not necessarily the same version) have hit testing ever?
[21:56] <cjwatson> Or something like that
[21:56] <cjwatson> If somebody wants to manually sync before that, that's fine, that implies that at least somebody thought about it
[21:57] <jbicha> infinity: sorry, GNOME on Wayland has interesting behavior sometimes (like when your computer runs out of ram or something)
[21:57] <infinity> jbicha: That's encouraging...
[21:57] <cjwatson> We'd be a bit slower at picking up brand-new packages, but I think the rationale for syncing from unstable rather than testing mostly doesn't apply to those
[21:58] <infinity> cjwatson: That would have worked in this case, as it never migrated, it wouldn't have worked for most of the previous cases (bitcoin stuff, famously) where they were removed from testing.
[21:58] <cjwatson> Yeah, it's not a panacea, just thinking that it might make sense.
[21:58] <infinity> Might do.
[21:58] <jbicha> I typed that pkill command (probably with 2 Ls) in a different terminal and it ate the L and spat the command out here instead
[21:59] <cjwatson> (We should probably separately track explicit manual removals from testing, since we often want to at least think about those)
[21:59] <infinity> We *should*, but not sure who'd sign up to give that list love.
[22:00] <infinity> And is there an easy way to distinguish manual removals from the hundreds of auto-removals we don't care about?
[22:00] <cjwatson> Not sure offhand.
[22:01] <infinity> Anyhow, I should see about untetheting myself from my desk and enjoying what's left of my weekend.
[22:27] <zx2c4> infinity: im looking at this bitcoin stuff now actually to see how it works
[22:27] <zx2c4> is there another reference i should study as well?
[22:29] <Ukikie> owncloud.
[22:30] <zx2c4> Ukikie: thanks
[22:33] <zx2c4> cjwatson: you wrote " append ubuntu16.04.1"
[22:33] <zx2c4> you meant i should appen 17.04, right?
[22:37] <infinity> Yes.
[22:38] <zx2c4> infinity: so previous changelog line was
[22:38] <zx2c4> wireguard (0.0.20170214-1) unstable; urgency=medium
[22:38] <zx2c4> new one will be:
[22:38] <zx2c4> wireguard (0.0.20170214-2ubuntu17.04) unstable; urgency=medium
[22:38] <zx2c4> seem correct?
[22:38] <infinity> s/-2/-1/
[22:38] <zx2c4> interesting okay
[22:38] <infinity> And s/unstable/zesty/
[22:38] <zx2c4> okay
[22:38] <zx2c4> wireguard (0.0.20170214-1ubuntu17.04) zesty; urgency=medium
[22:39] <infinity> That'll do.  Though the security team's version recommendations would make that 0.0.20170214-1ubuntu0.17.04
[22:39] <infinity> (Because an upload of an ubuntu delta to artful would be 0.0.20170214-1ubuntu1, and should sort higher)
[22:40] <zx2c4> okay i'll do that
[22:41] <zx2c4> LANG=C date -R seems to work nicely
[22:42] <infinity> dch generates the signature bits for you.
[22:42] <infinity> But I suppose you're not doing this on Debian/Ubuntu.
[22:42] <zx2c4> I am
[22:42] <zx2c4> i just booted up a zesty VM
[22:42] <cjwatson> zx2c4: er, yes, thinko.
[22:42] <zx2c4> but am still using vim for it O_o
[22:43] <zx2c4> and then i guess I can remove Build-Depends:
[22:43] <infinity> Probably all but debhelper.
[22:43] <zx2c4> interesting
[23:00] <zx2c4> infinity:
[23:00] <zx2c4> okay all set
[23:00] <zx2c4> ill upload this to the bug report?
[23:00] <zx2c4> or want to have a look at it here first?
[23:02] <zx2c4> alright added to the bug report
[23:02] <zx2c4> I can modify it if you need
[23:14] <zx2c4> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wireguard/+bug/1685522/+attachment/4867059/+files/wireguard_0.0.20170214-1ubuntu0.17.04.tar.gz
[23:37] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: golang-defaults [ppc64el] (artful-proposed/main) [2:1.8~1ubuntu1] (kubuntu, ubuntu-desktop)
[23:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: golang-defaults [arm64] (artful-proposed/main) [2:1.8~1ubuntu1] (kubuntu, ubuntu-desktop)
[23:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: golang-defaults [armhf] (artful-proposed/main) [2:1.8~1ubuntu1] (kubuntu, ubuntu-desktop)
[23:39] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: golang-defaults [i386] (artful-proposed/main) [2:1.8~1ubuntu1] (kubuntu, ubuntu-desktop)
[23:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: golang-defaults [amd64] (artful-proposed/main) [2:1.8~1ubuntu1] (kubuntu, ubuntu-desktop)
[23:40] -queuebot:#ubuntu-release- New binary: golang-defaults [s390x] (artful-proposed/main) [2:1.8~1ubuntu1] (kubuntu, ubuntu-desktop)
[23:45] <mwhudson> infinity: still awake/around?