[02:19] <duflu> What package owns the seeds for CD images? I mean what package is relevant to removing unity8-desktop-session from the ISO?  (bug 1632772)
[02:20] <duflu> It's non-obvious because it doesn't exist in the final installed image apparently
[02:53] <jbicha> duflu: I believe that was already done for Artful: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta/1.380
[03:05] <duflu> jbicha: Thanks. I'm a big fan of project management first, code second. Bug updated (I think accurately?)
[07:50] <willcooke> morning all
[07:51] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[07:51] <seb128> hey willcooke
[08:01] <Laney> morning
[08:03] <seb128> hey Laney, how are you?
[08:05] <Laney> hey seb128
[08:05] <Laney> doing good thanks!
[08:05] <Laney> was at a friend's wedding at the weekend
[08:05] <Laney> fffffffun
[08:06] <Laney> what about you?
[08:06] <Laney> haha, got some spam that's faked from slangasek
[08:06] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:07] <seb128> w.e was good, we had dinner/played game with friends on saturday evening and went to vote yesterday then had lunch on the sea front
[08:07] <seb128> bit windy but sunny so it was nice
[08:07] <seb128> hey davmor2
[08:08] <Laney> ah voting
[08:08] <Laney> did you have to go somewhere?
[08:08] <Laney> hey davmor2
[08:08] <Laney> what's up
[08:08] <davmor2> grey mostly
[08:09] <davmor2> seb128: when does Frexit happen now?
[08:09] <Laney> they said that "wintery" weather is coming back
[08:10] <davmor2> Laney: it's England like the opposite of the Spanish Inquisition You always expect the wintery weather
[08:11] <seb128> Laney, I voted in France (well gave a mandate to somebody to vote for me) but my gf is registered in .nl and the voting station was in the french school in den haag (which is close from the hotel we were at)
[08:12] <Laney> good old den haag
[08:14] <seb128> :-)
[08:15] <seb128> hum, french news seems to suggest that u.k news focus on Le Pen "success" even if she's not having the lead in the first round
[08:15] <seb128> is that true?
[08:15] <seb128> I guess I can have a look to google news titles fro the u.k edition
[08:16] <Laney> not likely to be anything I'd have seen :P
[08:16] <Laney> they were mainly talking about people getting behind Macron now on Radio 4 this morning
[08:17] <Laney> cordon sanitaire!
[08:17] <seb128> lol
[08:17] <Laney> but no accounting for some of the newspapers...
[08:19] <seb128> they mention the times frontpage
[08:19] <seb128> anyway, good results mostly
[08:19] <seb128> would have been better with Le Pen in 3rd but I'm not going to complain too much
[08:20] <Laney> https://twitter.com/joeheenan/status/856405997396652032
[08:21] <Laney> :D
[08:25] <seb128> :-(
[08:36] <oSoMoN> 'morning!
[08:36] <seb128> hey oSoMoN! how are you? had a good w.e?
[08:40] <oSoMoN> hey seb128, yeah the week-end was good, if you except the elections hangover…
[08:40] <seb128> oSoMoN, did you drink to celebrate or to forget? :p
[08:40] <oSoMoN> the latter…
[08:41] <oSoMoN> I actually spent the whole day yesterday helping to manage the elections office in Barcelona, twas quite an interesting experience, regardless of the results
[08:44] <oSoMoN> seb128, ever seen something like bug #1685747 (in xchat or other apps)?
[08:44] <seb128> oSoMoN, how long were the voting queues in Barcelona?
[08:44] <oSoMoN> seb128, pretty reasonable, the peak time was just before lunch, I think people had to wait max 30min
[08:45] <seb128> that's ok, I saw pictures of people waiting for hours in other countries
[08:45] <duflu> Last night's news showed longs queues in AU too. There are ~15K registered French voters (which apparently is like 20%)
[08:45] <seb128> oSoMoN, never saw that segfault or similiar sorry (but I've not been using GNOME/wayland yet)
[08:46] <oSoMoN> yeah, I just switched back to gnome/x11 for now, IRC needed
[08:46] <duflu> ... 20% of eligible potential voters
[08:47] <seb128> duflu, only 20% of french people who could vote registered here? that seems low...
[08:48] <duflu> seb128: Yes must be too much sun or something
[08:48] <duflu> Australian apathy is infectious
[08:48] <oSoMoN> I heard 27k registered voters in the Barcelona area, and when I left the office in the evening shortly before it closed the turnout was less than 50%
[08:49] <oSoMoN> which I thought was pretty bad
[09:02] <xnox> Trevinho, can we have unity landing with the three approved branches into artful? or shall I just upload my no-upstart-dep into artful?
[09:03] <Trevinho> xnox: now that we've artful, sure :-)
[09:03] <xnox> Trevinho, yeah \o/
[09:04] <xnox> please do
[09:04] <xnox> Trevinho, do you know if ubuntu-ui-toolkit-autopilot will still be needed in artful?
[09:15] <pitti> seb128, didrocks: bonjour ! bonne élection, je suis hereux que Macron a gagné
[09:16] <oSoMoN> didrocks, is bug #1257462 still affecting you?
[09:16] <didrocks> pitti: Guten Morgen! C'est pas totalement encore fait, mais c'est en bon chemin :-)
[09:17] <didrocks> oSoMoN: good question, I didn't monitor those, but it's mostly over IIRC, let me retry
[09:17] <pitti> oui ! I guess some Melanchon/Fillon voters might swing to Le Pen, but I'd expect the majority of the others to favor Macron, no?
[09:17] <Laney> haha
[09:18] <Laney> I will never predict an election again
[09:18] <pitti> good point
[09:18] <pitti> although admittedly predictions for that one were pretty good
[09:18] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, it seems that it's going to be an easy win, but as Laney told… :)
[09:19] <didrocks> oSoMoN: sounds to be fixed
[09:19] <oSoMoN> didrocks, great, mind closing it yourself? or shall I do it?
[09:20] <Sweetshark> bonjours a tous
[09:22] <seb128> salut pitti, moi aussi !
[09:23] <seb128> pitti, yeah, current situation looks good but you never know what events/news can happen between now and then
[09:23] <didrocks> hey Sweetshark!
[09:24] <oSoMoN> thanks didrocks
[09:25] <seb128> pitti, there is also a tv debate between them and she's more agressive and usually putting a good show during those
[09:25] <seb128> hey Sweetshark
[09:25] <Trevinho> xnox: I do'nt think so, I mean it wasn't used by unity7 anyway. no?
[09:28] <Sweetshark> didrocks, seb128: kch, kch. Nothing helps like a simple french greeting to get the lurkers out of their cover! ;)
[09:28] <didrocks> heh
[09:30] <xnox> Trevinho, sure.
[09:30] <seb128> lol
[09:34] <xnox> seb128, he looks a bit like a twat, and took ages to go on stage.... waving waving and waving, then doing a cheeky wink too....
[09:34] <seb128> yeah...
[09:35] <xnox> seb128, she looks hot on the other hand, sounds reasonable, her youtube video is amazing
[09:35] <seb128> hot?
[09:35] <xnox> seb128, and it won't matter at all who is elected as neither have any assembly seats to achieve anything.
[09:35] <seb128> you are not confusing her for her niece?
[09:35] <seb128> I'm not sure he can't pull that out as well
[09:36] <xnox> seb128, have you seen https://youtu.be/CbigtMwHM1g ?
[09:37] <seb128> yeah
[09:38] <xnox> there is parody clip https://youtu.be/Z6YFAM0Co84 =)
[09:39] <xnox> lol
[09:40] <seb128> bah
[09:41] <seb128> let's see anyway, hope Macron wins and get an assembly majority of some sort
[09:46] <didrocks> if you look at the leader on each area, there are still some discrepencancies (and Le Pen is unfortunately leading in a lot of east part): http://www.interieur.gouv.fr/var/miomcti/storage/images/media/elections/files/presidentielle-2017/candidat-arrive-en-tete-dans-chaque-departement/805040-1-fre-FR/Candidat-arrive-en-tete-dans-chaque-departement_largeur_960.jpg)
[09:52] <flexiondotorg> Morning desktopers
[09:55] <oSoMoN> good morning flexiondotorg
[10:05] <Trevinho> seb128: when you've some time could you check that ucc MP I've? Since they're done...
[10:06] <Trevinho> xnox: emh... I don't see artful in bileto
[10:08] <xnox> Trevinho, yeah, i pinged sil2100 to fix that =)
[10:09] <xnox> Trevinho, i went to check, cause i realised you would want to use that. =) should be fixed sometime soonish.
[10:09] <Trevinho> xnox: so once that is done, if I might be offline, hit the build trigger at https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2730
[10:09] <sil2100> Yeah, on it now ;)
[10:09] <xnox> ack
[10:09] <Trevinho> xnox: nice ;-)
[10:09] <xnox> and then we might be able to kill upstart by end of day
[10:36] <sil2100> Trevinho, xnox: it is now done
[10:37] <sil2100> xnox: I had to find some nice way to clear the lru_cache for the active_series() method - I couldn't remember the nice method so we just did a touch-and-redeploy thing
[10:37] <xnox> works for me =)
[10:39] <xnox> triggered to build it.
[10:39] <xnox> Trevinho, i changed target to artful, and triggered build. hopefully it will bake fine =)
[11:07] <Sweetshark> seb128: just saw this: in my hometown of Hamburg only 4% voted for Le Pen (at the french consolate) ...
[11:14] <didrocks> Sweetshark: well, people living aboard are quite unlikely to make that vote indeed :) Even big cities vs small villages (for instance, in Lyon, she is at ~8%)
[11:15] <didrocks> (well, in my part of Lyon, sounds like she is higher in other parts)
[12:13] <jbicha> good morning, we are demoting UOA to universe, right?
[12:15] <xnox> Trevinho,
[12:15] <xnox> 2017-04-24 10:41:30,220 ERROR artful/compiz: Failed to commit https://code.launchpad.net/~banw/compiz/compiz.colorfilter. You must supply either a Commit Message on your MP, or a custom debian/changelog entry.
[12:15] <xnox> 2017-04-24 10:41:30,254 INFO Failed in 3m 0s
[12:48] <jbicha> anyone want to review my Shotwell packaging at LP: #1581180 ?
[13:01] <seb128> jbicha, good question about uoa, did we change the seeds yet?
[13:01] <jbicha> seb128: I believe the only seed change done so far is dropping unity8
[13:02] <seb128> k, so uoa is still in main
[13:03] <xnox> seb128, i was pondering to seed ubuntu-gnome-desktop into ubuntu-desktop just to see the components missmatches and the amount of MIR reports to do.
[13:03] <andyrock> hey all
[13:04] <xnox> seb128, or something more sensible than that.
[13:04] <seb128> xnox, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/GNOME/MIR_List
[13:04] <seb128> hey andyrock
[13:04] <xnox> seb128, any idea if we are keeping qtmir qtmir-gles at all?
[13:04] <seb128> xnox, no idea, ask on #ubuntu-mir I guess
[13:05] <seb128> xnox, don't seed ubuntu-gnome-desktop in any case, if you want to help just join discussion/work here, don't attack the issue with another angle
[13:05] <xnox> ack.
[13:06] <seb128> xnox, we decided to start by swapping the desktop env but keep our apps selection, so we are going to have a set quite different from Ubuntu GNOME
[13:06] <xnox> i only hope to remove src:upstart and src:cgmanager soonish.
[13:06] <xnox> seb128, right, indeed.
[13:06] <xnox> because i believer there will be fallout from src:upstart removal unfortunately =/
[13:06] <seb128> xnox, what is still using upstart? I though unity and the greeter were ported to systemd already?
[13:07] <xnox> seb128, ported -> yes; have build-depends and depends -> yes
[13:07]  * xnox is fixing that without breaking things.
[13:07] <xnox> seb128, but e.g. unity8-desktop-session ubuntu-touch-session are unported to systemd, and I will be asking to remove those two packages.... together with upstart, upstart-watchdog, etc.
[13:08] <jbicha> seb128: https://paste.debian.net/929111/
[13:08] <xnox> and i hope the archive team can figure out if we can remove unity8-desktop-session ubuntu-touch-session packages from artful or not.
[13:20] <seb128> xnox, jbicha, qtmir is still useful to u8 and quite some work went into that codebase and there was some community interest to keep it an active project so it might make sense to want to keep the pieces in universe
[13:21] <xnox> right
[13:21] <xnox> that's what i was thinking too, kind of.
[13:22] <seb128> jbicha, your uoa to universe question had a purpose? I don't think we have any urgent need to demote it no?
[13:25] <Laney> Presumably to do with the patched in support in Shotwell
[13:26] <jbicha> seb128: the Shotwell update drops UOA Support and it looks like UOA is mostly just for Unity scopes then…
[13:26] <seb128> Laney, that's ortoghonal with where uoa is though, we can stop using it in shotwell and still have it in main
[13:26] <seb128> jbicha, it will naturally drop off the iso when components that use it stop being there
[13:27] <seb128> that includes the u-c-c panel, shotwell, unity lenses
[13:27] <seb128> it's fine to start by dropping its use in shotwell imho (if that was the real question)
[13:28] <xnox> tedg, is there per-chance some new API in the ubuntu-app-launch to figure out /all/ pids of an app (e.g. launched under systemd) similar to the old tricks of getting freezer cgroup tasks?
[13:29] <jbicha> I guess a follow-on question is whether it makes sense to keep enabling UOA in evolution-data-server
[13:29] <willcooke> I'd be +1 on dropping in in eds
[13:30] <Laney> seb128: yes I understand, but I was answering your question about whether it has a purpose
[13:30]  * Laney is good with dropping it off naturally
[13:33] <seb128> jbicha, Laney, willcooke, it's probably fine to disable in eds, it opens the question of accounts migration on upgrade though I guess, but we are not going to keep uoa just for that purpose
[13:33] <seb128> unsure if we can easily be smart about accounts
[13:33] <Laney> that would be nice as a wishlist thing yeah
[13:33] <seb128> or if we just need to document that users are going to need to re-add them through goa
[13:34] <Laney> probably should put that on some list to care about
[13:34] <willcooke> imo, it's been broken for a while, so not sure how many people have been using it
[13:34] <seb128> +1
[13:34] <Laney> not sure if there is one
[13:34] <seb128> willcooke, wfm, my google calendars are listed in the indicator and gnome-calendar
[13:34] <willcooke> ah, just me then
[13:34] <Laney> same
[13:34] <Laney> it just wigs out and loses the session often
[13:35] <Laney> but it is synced in the indicator
[13:35] <seb128> and doesn't work when you add it until you restart the session
[13:35] <willcooke> Laney, @ list - can you add it to the "17.10 cycle work" doc (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HiF4M3FVtbAeYkjADShPGynY3MzcaKa3o9IPrU1c-TQ/edit)
[13:35] <Laney> ok
[13:36] <Laney> this should probably be triaged into bugs or something
[13:36] <Laney> at least the development bits
[13:36] <Laney> there
[13:40] <willcooke> Laney, re: the list?
[13:40] <Laney> yeah
[13:40] <willcooke> Agreed - per our 1:1 today, I'm going to take that list, distill it in to a new list for the sprint next week, and then once that's done I can Blueprint/bug/etc etc
[13:40] <Laney> ah yeah, awesome
[13:40] <Laney> you beaut
[13:40]  * willcooke <- helping!
[13:43]  * Laney is going into the world of webhooks
[13:43] <Laney> wish me luck
[13:45] <xnox> oh noes
[13:46] <xnox> launchpad ones? i am yet to try them out
[13:48] <Laney> github <-> adt
[13:57] <Laney> :|
[13:57] <Laney> a URL 404s but when I curl the same thing from the same machine it works
[14:36] <tedg> xnox: Yup, you can grab it from the instance object, pids() returns a vector.
[14:37] <tedg> xnox: You can also call ubuntu-app-launch-pids
[14:37] <xnox> nice.
[14:37] <tedg> xnox: But those will only really work on U8...
[14:38] <xnox> tedg, qtmir exposes something similar via dbus, by iterating things with cgmanager DBusFocusInfo::fetchAssociatedPids(pid_t pid)
[14:38] <xnox> tedg, do you happen to know if autopilot switched from qtmir dbus api, to the ubuntu-app-launch pids() api?
[14:40] <tedg> xnox: I'm not sure, but I think qtmir uses ual as its backend there.
[14:40] <tedg> xnox: So it should be *much* faster under systemd than Upstart.
[14:41] <xnox> tedg, nope, it links cgmanager, gets cgmanager dbus proxy object, looks up cgroup path to contain /upstart/ and checks the freezer group for tasks.
[14:41] <xnox> at least for that call, which is exposed via dbus, which supposedly only autopilot uses
[14:41] <xnox> maybe it uses ual api somewhere else, but i didn't look.
[14:42] <xnox> tedg, thank you very much for your responses!
[14:42] <xnox> tedg, from #ubuntu-mir channel <greyback> xnox: right. UAL does make that possible, we just kept neglecting that particular bit of cod
[14:42] <xnox> i shall open a bug report.
[14:43] <greyback> yep, it is an old bit of code, new UAL can probably help it out
[15:12] <tedg> xnox: greyback: Also, just FYI, under systemd the freezer group isn't used. Shouldn't be a big deal, but so you don't get confused.
[15:13] <greyback> tedg: is there an equivalent?
[15:13] <tedg> greyback: systemd makes its own.
[15:13] <tedg> greyback: The proper answer there is "oh, of course it has its own everything" ;-)
[15:14] <greyback> tedg: I grimanced. Will that do?
[15:14] <xnox> i think qtmir wants to care what ual things about things, rather than whatever systemd thinks.
[15:15] <xnox> *thinks about things
[15:21] <tedg> greyback: Localized systemd distaste.
[15:21] <kenvandine> hey tedg
[15:21] <tedg> Howdy kenvandine
[15:21] <greyback> xnox: right. qtmir shouldn't care about systemd/upstart
[15:41] <a1fa> so - where do we send unity refugees to?
[15:42] <Laney> 16.04
[15:42] <a1fa> GNOME3 sucks terribly, KDE Plasma sucks
[15:42] <a1fa> XFCE is ok, but terrible tearing and lack of "DE" feel
[15:42] <a1fa> MATE and Budgie?
[15:46] <sil2100> Maybe some people would be willing to do a Ubuntu Unity flavour? Uubuntu or something
[15:46] <a1fa> they probably will - and this is what sucks -- waiting for someone to pickup the slack
[15:46] <a1fa> I'd donate towards that
[15:49] <a1fa> anybody know how well steam integrates with budgie or mate?
[15:50] <davmor2> a1fa: both gnome and kde can be made to look and feel pretty similar to unity to be honest so either with some tweaks will suffice
[15:51] <jbicha> a1fa: you're in the wrong channel, this channel is for developing the default Ubuntu desktop
[15:51] <a1fa> +2
[15:52] <a1fa> jbicha: desparate for new DE
[15:55] <davmor2> a1fa: https://popey.com/blog/posts/my-ubuntu-1604-gnome-setup.html and for kde https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1i7jAtHcw4
[15:55] <a1fa> davmor2: i got gnome3 setup just like that - except it sucks
[15:55] <a1fa> not the same
[16:23] <seb128> a1fa, having specifics about why GNOME suck could be useful, we might be able to address some of the concerns, improve things, recommend extensions etc
[16:23] <seb128> but we want to know what issues our users are having migrating to the new desktop
[16:24] <seb128> out of "it's different" which we are probably not going to fix, it's going to require some getting used to
[16:28] <Trevinho> xnox: check #ubuntu-ci-eng for details, but... bileto fails for now
[16:28] <Trevinho> we need some intevention from IS
[16:34] <xnox> Trevinho, oh yeah, snakefruit is down, so everything is down.
[16:42] <Laney> I doubt bileto fetches its private key from snakefruit
[17:07] <Laney> nighty night
[17:23] <tjaalton> jbicha: is xlsclients output reliable when running gnome on wayland? checking what's using Xwayland
[17:23] <tjaalton> it lists gnome-shell itself, and all of g-s-d it seems. both probably makes sense
[17:24] <howefield> 8
[17:26] <Blu2> What happens to the Ubuntu SDK now btw?
[17:36] <a1fa> seb128: its quirky -- i think most of the problems come from having to extensively utilize 3rd party extensions
[17:37] <a1fa> seb128: not knowing whats the future of default extensions kind of sucks. may be time to just get used to native gnome3 experience
[17:37] <a1fa> just reinstalled kde to give it another shot
[18:19] <willcooke> night all