[00:03] <jbicha> robert_ancell: that's what it looks like, yes
[00:14] <robert_ancell> The transitions in GNOME Shell are really clunky...
[00:15] <TheMuso> I've run GNOME shell on a fast box here before, and found it sluggish when using the keyboard so whilst not the same thing, I don't feel that GNOME shell is performant.
[00:15] <TheMuso> That was with a GPU with free drivers too.
[00:16] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, it's not the performance more the timing and lack of transitions in various places
[00:16] <robert_ancell> Though it is a little laggy too
[00:16] <TheMuso> Ok, well it certainly feels sluggish when moving through the shell menus compared to say a menu in a GTK app.
[00:20] <robert_ancell> And the triple bar at the top for maximized window (system + app + menubar) feels like going back to the dark ages.
[00:21] <robert_ancell> The overview is much nicer than Unity though
[00:21] <jbicha> robert_ancell: I think that duplication isn't a problem for the "native" GNOME3 apps
[00:22] <robert_ancell> jbicha, it's certainly less of a problem, but still visual overload to me being used to the tidy way Unity does it
[00:22] <robert_ancell> I'm here for good now though, so I can only complain through bug reports and patches :)
[00:24] <jbicha> there was a desktop-devel discussion about menus earlier this month because the GNOME3 way still has a major discoverability problem
[00:24] <robert_ancell> jbicha, what's wrong with the GNOME3 discoverability of menus?
[00:25] <robert_ancell> oh, the appmenu?
[00:25] <jbicha> yes, important stuff is in there, but you kind of have to be told that it is a menu!
[00:25] <robert_ancell> yeah, they're a bit useless IMO
[00:27] <jbicha> robert_ancell: ok, gdm3 started after I installed ubuntu-gnome-default-settings
[00:27] <robert_ancell> jbicha, aha
[00:29] <robert_ancell> That lock screen shield... What is the logic behind that?
[00:33] <robert_ancell> I think I'll have to get involved in Polari development, would be nice to finally kick xchat
[00:35]  * robert_ancell -> lunch
[00:36] <jbicha> lock screen ?
[01:19] <jbicha> robert_ancell: bug 1686257 !
[01:19] <ubot5> bug 1686257 in gdm3 (Ubuntu Zesty) "gdm3 fails to start when default session-name=ubuntu" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1686257
[01:20] <jbicha> that was not what I expected to find at all
[01:23] <jbicha> I wonder if that would fix cyphermox's problem with gdm3 ^
[01:51] <robert_ancell> jbicha, when you lock the screen you have to slide up before seeing the login box
[01:51] <robert_ancell> I'd hoped that would be gone by now.
[01:57] <jbicha> robert_ancell: you can just start typing
[01:57] <robert_ancell> Still it's confusing and pointless..
[01:58] <jbicha> I believe it's the same way Windows 8+ does it, except that Windows isn't as good at the "just start typing" part
[01:58] <jbicha> I assume it's useful if you ever install GNOME on a tablet
[02:27] <duflu> You don't need to "slide up" in Windows... tapping space bar does the same thing
[02:28] <duflu> and is a lot more convenient if you're about to enter a password
[02:32] <jbicha> duflu: you don't need to slide up with gdm either
[02:33] <duflu> That's good. I would expect everyone to produce a login screen that's keyboard-navigatable (if that's even a word)
[02:35] <jbicha> navigable :)
[02:36] <jbicha> robert_ancell: did you see the updates on LP: #1632772 ?
[02:36] <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1632772 in unity8-desktop-session (Ubuntu Zesty) "Login option 'GNOME on Wayland' does not start from LightDM" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1632772
[02:36] <duflu> If only the lexicon was more navigable
[02:36] <robert_ancell> jbicha, I didn't read it in detail
[02:36] <jbicha> it's Unity8's fault that GNOME on Wayland broke :|
[02:41] <duflu> I noticed when Gnome on Wayland finally started we're missing shadows and corner-decoraation transparency. Is there a bug for that?
[02:41] <duflu> I don't know the right Gnome packages to pick on...
[02:43] <jbicha> duflu: what theme are you using?
[02:44] <robert_ancell> duflu, it's the Ambience theming, use gnome-tweak-tool to reset it all to the defaults.
[02:45] <duflu> jbicha: The default on a zesty installation. Yeah sounds like Ambiance isn't Gnome-Shell-ready
[02:48] <jbicha> duflu: set the GTK+ theme and icon theme to Adwaita, if LP: #1685272 doesn't describe that issue, please file a new bug
[02:48] <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1685272 in light-themes (Ubuntu Artful) "gnome-shell: no window border" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1685272
[02:51] <duflu> Thanks. I don't need it to look nice right now. Just want to know that Ambiance will get fixed soon enough
[02:53] <jbicha> it might not get fixed if the bugs aren't filed
[02:53] <jbicha> no one's really maintaining light-themes right now
[02:55] <duflu> jbicha, rest assured there are enough of us in the world who care about Ubuntu's appearance. It would get fixed soon enough :)
[02:56] <robert_ancell> duflu, we're not sure if we'll continue Ambience or start a new theme that works better with GNOME
[02:56] <duflu> Yeah, fairy nuff
[02:56] <robert_ancell> It's one of the things on the list to solve
[02:58] <duflu> robert_ancell, I do very much want to see Ubuntu look better than Adwaita though... it's so clunky. Red Hat (and others) dropped the ball
[02:58] <robert_ancell> I'm not loving the font
[02:59]  * robert_ancell makes a zesty VM
[03:01] <robert_ancell> We really have to update ubuntu.com - it still says we're the leading operating system for phones...
[03:02] <jbicha> it's probably a good idea for a theme to use Adwaita as a base (as long as you don't mind (L)GPL-2.1+)
[03:02] <jbicha> robert_ancell: do you have fonts-cantarell installed?
[03:03] <robert_ancell> jbicha, yep
[03:03] <jbicha> otherwise, I think it defaults to Sans or something
[03:03] <robert_ancell> Cantarell is just not as well done as the Ubuntu for for legibility I think
[03:03]  * duflu can almost hear cimi saying "it looks shit" from here
[03:06] <jbicha> you can patch it to use the Ubuntu font, look in gnome-shell's data/theme/
[03:11] <Trevinho> xnox: in your upstart branch, I guess you might also remove the UpstartWrapper at all, as it won't be there, or should I do it?
=== Spydar007 is now known as Guest92796
=== cpaelzer_ is now known as cpaelzer
=== JanC is now known as Guest5365
=== JanC_ is now known as JanC
[07:46] <oSoMoN> good morning!
[07:46] <didrocks> salut oSoMoN
[07:47] <oSoMoN> salut didrocks
[08:00] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:01] <Laney> sup
[08:07] <willcooke> ahoyhoy
[08:16] <seb128> hey oSoMoN davmor2 Laney willcooke
[08:17] <seb128> how are things today?
[08:17] <willcooke> c.c.c.c.c.cold
[08:17] <willcooke> Winter has returned
[08:17] <oSoMoN> not cold here, but rainy and gloomy
[08:18]  * willcooke checks his charts
[08:18] <willcooke> http://imgur.com/a/WxLxG
[08:18] <willcooke> Down to freezing again last night
[08:18] <davmor2> it is the opposite to eddie izzards fantastically hot safe cracking shower joke
[08:19] <Laney> urgh
[08:19] <Laney> got soaked on the way to the pub quiz
[08:19] <Laney> the met office said it wasn't going to rain
[08:20] <Laney> jerks
[08:20] <davmor2> Laney: it's England always assume rain
[08:21] <Laney> fair point
[08:21] <willcooke> rain is good for me right now.  I put some grass seed down where I'd removed some large bushes.  I couldn't be arsed to water it every day and the pidgeons ate it all.  Put some more down on Monday and now it's been raining things should start to happen
[08:22] <chrisccoulson> willcooke, hah, I had the same problem
[08:22] <willcooke> I've been following your garden antics on Twitter :)
[08:22] <chrisccoulson> I had to reseed my lawn and then it was dry for about 3 weeks. I could do with a warmish, showery couple of weeks really
[08:23] <willcooke> I think it needs to be above about 5 or 6 for the seed to germinate, so should be warm enough, just
[08:24] <chrisccoulson> I have had some germinate now, but it's very slow. And I'm going to have to reseed again, thanks to the pigeons
[08:26] <Laney> there was a segement on reviving lawns on GW the other week
[08:27] <willcooke> chrisccoulson, I got seed off ebay which was coated in "head start" or something like that, supposed to speed it up.
[08:27] <willcooke> I have GW recorded on my Myth box, I will check that out
[08:27] <willcooke> and skip through all of Carole's bits because she is very very boring
[08:27] <willcooke> *Carol
[08:28] <chrisccoulson> That sounds like my sort of thing
[08:28] <TheMuso> Hey EU folks.
[08:28] <TheMuso> Its actually starting to feel like winter here... Again, which is good.
[08:28] <willcooke> evening TheMuso
[08:28] <chrisccoulson> My lawn was a mud bath a few weeks ago
[08:32] <Laney> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08mkmrq/gardeners-world-2017-episode-6 07:15
[08:32] <Laney> hey TheMuso
[08:32] <Laney> how are you?
[08:32] <TheMuso> Laney: Quite well thanks. Yourself?
[08:32] <chrisccoulson> Laney, thanks!
[08:35] <Laney> TheMuso: Decent thanks
[08:35] <Laney> Although we came last in the pub quiz :'(
[08:35] <Laney> got the bonus question though (what country is Shakira from?@)
[08:35] <TheMuso> Aww that sucks.
[08:35] <TheMuso> lol what a bonus questino! :)
[08:35] <TheMuso> question*
[08:36] <Laney> high brow
[08:37] <davmor2> TheMuso: apparently it is hug an Australian day prepare for the incoming hugs apparently it's the law or something
[08:37]  * davmor2 hugs TheMuso 
[08:38] <TheMuso> davmor2: awww thanks. :)
[08:46] <davmor2> offline for a bit while I wipe my system and install gnome and see what I need to do to it to make it bearable
[08:46] <dednick> good morning all.
[08:51] <Laney> duflu: The theme problems are known.
[08:51] <willcooke> morning dednick, how goes?
[08:51] <duflu> Laney: Yeah. I know it's annoying having people pick on things this early in the cycle.
[08:52] <Laney> It's fine
[08:52] <Laney> But they have been reported already
[08:52] <duflu> Certainly, given a choice I prefer to work entirely in bug reports and not be in IRC :)
[08:56] <seb128> who mentioned theme issues?
[08:56] <dednick> willcooke: it goes well thanks, and you?
[08:57] <seb128> it feels like I missed the start of that discussion
[08:58] <duflu> seb128: It's totally not important. Just a bug in the pile
[08:58] <duflu> At least now I know it's not as important as it looked
[08:59] <seb128> k, well in any case we have a stack of theme issues filed in launchpad
[09:00] <seb128> so feel free to check that list and file some more as needed
[09:01]  * duflu tries to resolve his previous comment with the need for it to be High
[09:01] <xnox> Trevinho, i did not want to break any of UpstartWrapper stuff in case you are going to backport this back to e.g. xenial.
[09:02] <xnox> Trevinho, but also I'm not sure if we want to include removal of the UpstartWrapper in this release.
[09:02]  * xnox only did the minimal amount of work.
[09:05] <xnox> Trevinho, bileto is complaining about new commits in https://code.launchpad.net/~muktupavels/compiz/gwd-hidpi/+merge/323100 now
[09:08] <dednick> anyone that recently started using gnome notice their screen dimming to be a bit wonky? randomly dimming a few seconds when I stop using kb/mouse. I have it turned off in power settings fyi.
[09:08] <Trevinho> xnox: yeah, in fact I wanted to backport that... But I'd skip that commit anyway
[09:09] <Trevinho> xnox: so.... we can probably just get rid of it, and it shouln't cause problems
[09:09] <Trevinho> xnox: about that, yeah... the provate key issue is back, sil2100 is on it
[09:09] <sil2100> Yeah, it should be *temporarily* fixed once again, but the real fix is ready for deployment
[09:10] <willcooke> duflu, FWIW kenvandine started using the tag "gnome-17.10" : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bugs?field.tag=gnome-17.10
[09:10] <sil2100> Trevinho: I suppose you can try building the silo now anyway
[09:11] <duflu> willcooke, great! But light-themese stopped being the correct source package after precise. Let me de-duplicate..?
[09:11] <willcooke> thanks duflu
[09:11] <Laney> It's ubuntu-themes.
[09:12] <willcooke> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-themes/+bugs?field.tag=gnome-17.10
[09:12] <willcooke> yeah, I think I bookmarked the wrong page
[09:12] <seb128> hey dednick
[09:13] <seb128> dednick, I didn't use GNOME much yet but didn't notice that issue ... is that under wayland or x11?
[09:13] <dednick> seb128: x11
[09:14] <dednick> seems to be about 10 seconds after not touching :/  freaking annoying!
[09:15] <duflu> dednick: Sounds roughly like some repowerd bug(s)... and I suspect repowerd is going away with unity8
[09:16] <duflu> Stopping repowerd might solve it
[09:16] <duflu> And eventually dropping it, perhaps
[09:16] <dednick> looks like it's because i was on battery power.
[09:17] <duflu> Yes, separate policies... but I guess we also have multiple power daemons fighting for control now?
[09:17] <dednick> but...
[09:18] <dednick> duflu: repowerd a service? don't have it running?
[09:19] <dednick> duflu: and that's under unity right? I'm on gnome.
[09:19] <duflu> dednick: You sure? I'm not even logged in and it's running on my zesty
[09:20] <duflu> Oh, right. It might be absent in an Ubuntu Gnome install but on regular zesty with gnome packages added then repowerd is present
[09:20] <dednick> hm. i apparently just started it.
[09:20] <dednick> wasn't running earlier
[09:21] <dednick> i had unity running before though; added gnome later.
[09:21] <duflu> dednick: Yeah me too. But the point is each power daemon has its own timeouts and policies. Your screen dimming will be chaotic if you have multiple of them present
[09:22] <duflu> I'm assuming Gnome uses... something else
[09:22] <dednick> think it uses upower...
[09:23] <dednick> GNOME power manager - whatever that is...
[09:23] <seb128> gnome-settings-daemon is doing the handling
[09:23] <seb128> like handling of timeouts, levels, configs, etc
[09:23] <seb128> upower is the service it uses
[09:24] <dednick> although dont seem to have gnome-power-manager either.
[09:24] <duflu> I think repowerd was a great idea, but it's now redundant and unmaintained, and will cause bugs if allowed to run
[09:24] <seb128> gnome-power-manager is only an UI nowadays
[09:24] <seb128> show you battery graph and such
[09:24] <seb128> but the user service is gnome-settings-daemon
[09:24] <seb128> yeah, upowerd shouldn't be used
[09:26] <dednick> seb128: don't seem to have gnome-settings-daemon runnig either :/
[09:27] <duflu> Still, I would bet Gnome Shell is not designed to use Unity8's repowerd
[09:27] <dednick> i'm on Ubuntu GNome - not sure if that makes a diff
[09:27] <muktupavels> there is no one gnome-settings-daemon, it is split in small programms gsd-*
[09:28] <dednick> muktupavels: woomp there it is.
[09:28] <dednick> gsd-power
[09:29] <dednick> so not i'm definitely going to be getting fights happening with repowerd and gsd-power running. :)
[09:29] <dednick> and kill.
[09:31] <seb128> yeah, uninstall powerd and stop it, we should make sure it's not left installed/started on upgraded systems
[09:31] <dednick> and now when i remove by power cable it's not dimming. nothing like being inconsistent!!
[09:32] <dednick> probably something getting screwed up when resuming from suspend.
[09:32] <duflu> In the least, make sure you kill repowerd. At a guess it will not see any shell it knows and will assume the system is idle; hence dim the screen repeatedly
[09:33] <duflu> Although I'm assuming Alexandros did not add Gnome Shell support
[09:34] <duflu> Perhaps he did
[09:34] <Laney> Does it really do things when any old random shell is running?
[09:35] <duflu> Probably shouldn't, but it came from a world where we owned the whole system... (shrug)
[09:36] <duflu> And I know it was a pain when I ran my own random shell
[09:37] <Laney> I've got it running on my Unity 7 systems
[09:37] <Laney> Didn't notice any particular problems
[09:38] <Laney> But if it is causing them and we just didn't find out yet, that would be a fix to SRU
[09:38] <dednick> Laney: it working fine on U7 for me as well. Probably came from having both on Ubuntu Gnome.
[09:39] <dednick> although it didn't seem to be running at the time...
[09:40] <Laney> oh well
[09:41] <ahayzen> Hey, me and a few others have been having an issue under GNOME Shell where sometimes when pressing Alt+Left/Right Arrow will result in the TTY changing. The workaround found is to run `sudo kbd_mode -s` but I wanted to report a bug for the issue and was wondering if someone would be able to suggest a package ? Or should i just report against gnome-shell ?
[09:42] <willcooke> ahayzen, is the alt-f4 switching vtys as well?
[09:42] <ahayzen> willcooke, it was for p_opey :-) i can't remember if it did for me
[09:43] <Laney> I've had that under Unity before
[09:43] <duflu> Is Ctrl+Alt+Left/Right the expected combo for that?
[09:44]  * duflu is thinking Ctrl is stuck logically
[09:44] <dednick> i think that's for moving windows between workspaces
[09:44] <ahayzen> i think Ctrl+Alt+F1/F2 etc is the normal
[09:44] <Laney> alt-arrows is supposed to do it if you are on a VT
[09:44] <Laney> but not if you are inside your desktop
[09:45]  * duflu tries and finds VTs are broken. Must be a Wednesday
[09:45] <dednick> ah. so key is not being caught by shell.
[09:45] <ahayzen> and this has happened on both wayland and X11 IIRC
[09:45] <Laney> or some driver or kernel problem
[09:46] <Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1508146
[09:46] <ubot5> Ubuntu bug 1508146 in gnome-shell (Ubuntu) "alt + left/right arrows switch between tty consoles, cannot disable" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[09:46] <Laney> don't know if I reported it when it happened to me
[09:47] <ahayzen> Laney, and that looks like it
[09:47] <ahayzen> *ah
[09:47] <popey> willcooke: yes, alt-f4 was switching to a tty
[09:48] <willcooke> Shall we use rls-a-incoming for these sorts of things?
[09:48] <willcooke> or rls-aa-incoming
[09:49] <ahayzen> popey, are you under Intel graphics as well ? IIRC all the people so far were under intel
[09:52] <Laney> the reports will use -a-
[09:53] <willcooke> thx Laney
[09:57] <willcooke> I predict that was dednick testing alt-f4 ^ ;)
[10:01] <Laney> quality trolling
[10:01] <Laney> back in the mIRC days you used to get people posting encoded commands for others to execute
[10:01] <Laney> could get quite creative with those
[10:02] <Laney> when you were able to "nuke" Windows machines someone got me to nuke my own in that way
[10:06] <popey> ahayzen: yes
[10:07]  * popey recalls mentioning the "hold down printscreen" bug in here recently, without mentioning that it basically locks up your machine. Got swearing from willcooke :)
[10:07] <ahayzen> :')
[10:26] <jbicha> Trevinho: if you want to get involved with the non-integer scaling development, I recommend talking to fmuellner on #gnome-shell in irc.gnome.org
[10:27] <davmor2> willcooke, seb128, Laney: fix number one http://paste.ubuntu.com/24459500/ software installer wouldn't install it, went with dpkg and that won't either because it is missing deps
[10:28] <willcooke> Interesting, so Chromes new native notifications use libappindicator
[10:28] <willcooke> neat
[10:29] <willcooke> davmor2, "software installer" = GNOME Software?
[10:29] <willcooke> if so, known and fixed, robert_ancell will do a new release this week
[10:30] <davmor2> willcooke: I assume so it just offered me the install in software installer option in firefox I assume it is gnome-software
[10:30] <jbicha> davmor2: instead of dpkg, I usually use 'sudo apt install ./path-to.deb' because it can install dependencies; some people use gdebi instead
[10:31] <jbicha> oSoMoN: why is the Chromium 59 build using use_gtk3=false ?
[10:31] <davmor2> jbicha: yeap I'm actually on the hunt for issues while setting up my daily use machine so I'm not actually after solutions just highlighting issues as I go
[10:32] <Laney> yes, use apt, dpkg itself never installs dependencies
[10:32] <Laney> that's not an issue
[10:32] <Trevinho> jbicha: ok, cool thanks
[10:32] <Trevinho> willcooke: is that something we care about^ ?
[10:33] <willcooke> Trevinho, non-int scaling? YES!!!!!!11one
[10:33] <willcooke> Trevinho, would love for you to get involved
[10:34] <willcooke> Trevinho, if you would like to
[10:34] <Trevinho> willcooke: ok, neat... :-)
[10:34] <davmor2> issue number 2 hexchat has no menu, issue number 3 the quit option in the gnome menu only shows on screen 1 when hexchat is open on screen 2 so even if it had the menu there I would not be able to see it obviously on the screen where the app is
[10:34] <Trevinho> Yeah, I mean... I've already spent some unity time on that, so... I can put some efforts in that too
[10:37] <oSoMoN> jbicha, I dunno, that was disabled at the time of the Cr 53 release but the changelog doesn’t elaborate on that change
[10:37] <oSoMoN> I can try turning it on
[10:43] <jbicha> oSoMoN: I haven't look at the Cr59 source but my understanding was that gtk3 was going to be enabled by Google by default in like 59 or 60
[10:43] <jbicha> so I would just remove the use_gtk3=false line from d/rules and see what happens?
[10:45] <jbicha> I was just curious, since Cr is the last gtk2 app I have installed (although Firefox still depends on gtk2, I assume for Flash)
[10:48] <oSoMoN> jbicha, I’ll give it a go
[10:52] <oSoMoN> indeed: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src.git/+/0ff8b19608421be5fa5b53e90c097e4992723b90%5E%21/#F0
[10:53] <oSoMoN> will need to explicitly pass use_gtk3=true if we want gtk3 on all arches
[11:15]  * Trevinho calls the day... See you tomorrow
[11:18] <willcooke> good night Trevinho, good moring kenvandine
[11:18] <kenvandine> good morning
[11:19] <Trevinho> Oh what an exchange 😅
[11:20] <seb128> night Trevinho
[11:20] <seb128> hey kenvandine
[11:20] <davmor2> meh sorry about that added the vpn only it sent all resources via the vpn and so shutdown networking to all apps woohoo :(
[11:32] <jbicha> kenvandine: good morning, I pushed all from the ubuntu-desktop-gnome PPA into artful directly
[11:32] <jbicha> I guess we can delete the zesty packages in that PPA now?
[11:34] <kenvandine> jbicha, leave them for now
[11:34] <kenvandine> i'm not on artful yet :)
[11:35] <seb128> what packages are we talking about?
[11:35] <kenvandine> gnome-shell and goa
[11:35] <jbicha> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/+archive/ubuntu/ubuntu-desktop-gnome/+packages
[11:36] <kenvandine> jbicha, oh, did you upload goa?
[11:36] <kenvandine> i can do that
[11:36] <jbicha> it's mostly just dropping misc universe deps to suggests to make the mir easier
[11:36] <seb128> those changes look good yeah
[11:36] <jbicha> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/artful-changes/2017-April/000313.html
[11:37] <jbicha> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-online-accounts/3.24.0-0ubuntu2
[11:37] <kenvandine> oh, i must have missed it when skimming the change mail :)
[11:37] <kenvandine> jbicha, thanks!
[11:37] <jbicha> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/1:3.24.1-0ubuntu3
[11:38] <jbicha> some of the deps we'll add back later but they weren't required for gnome-shell to work minimally
[11:40] <kenvandine> seb128, i assume we want to stick with the ubuntu font by default right?
[11:40] <seb128> kenvandine, I think so
[11:41] <kenvandine> good
[11:46] <chrisccoulson> oSoMoN, ok, just copied your chromium updates now
[12:03] <GunnarHj> seb128: What will be the value of XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP in 17.10?
[12:28] <jbicha> for now, I believe it would just be "GNOME", is there a reason it should be different?
[12:35] <seb128> GunnarHj, what jbicha said
[12:36] <GunnarHj> jbicha, seb128: Nope, I have no own thoughts. Just wanted to have it confirmed. Thanks!
[12:36] <seb128> yw!
[12:36] <seb128> brb
[12:42] <davmor2> so cold infact we have snow right now
[12:43] <kenvandine> hey davmor2
[12:44] <davmor2> hey kenvandine
[12:45] <oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, thanks!
[12:49] <kenvandine> is anyone running artful yet?
[12:50] <jbicha> kenvandine: I put it in a VBox yesterday; "sudo do-release-upgrade -d" works now
[12:52] <kenvandine_> jbicha, cool
[12:52] <kenvandine_> damn...
[13:21] <jbicha> seb128: could you subscribe Desktop Bugs to caribou, gdm3, gjs, gnome-control-center, gnome-shell, mutter ?
[13:21] <jbicha> and fuse-exfat and exfat-utils for LP: #1649537
[13:21] <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1649537 in fuse-exfat (Ubuntu) "[MIR] exfat-utils and fuse-exfat" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1649537
[13:22] <ogra_> were patent issues with extfat before (we tried to ship it on the phone and were denied)
[13:22] <davmor2> seb128, Laney, jbicha: any ideas on why gnome would be using 212 MB of ram for gnome software when as far as I can tell it's closed?  I'm assuming the dash is keeping it open would that be a good guess?
[13:22] <ogra_> *werent there
[13:22] <seb128> jbicha, can do, at least for the first line, need to look at those exfat ones not sure if we want to maintain that stack
[13:23] <seb128> davmor2, it's acting as a service
[13:23] <seb128> so can notify you about firmware updates and such
[13:23] <davmor2> ouch
[13:23] <jbicha> gnome-software is always running in the background, it helps it start up faster :|
[13:24] <seb128> was the same under unity
[13:26] <davmor2> so of the 5.5GB of memory being utilised currently gnome-shell is using just shy of 400MB claws is using 350 but is syncing a lot of mail, Chrome is using more than on unity but a similar enough amount to not worry about, gnome-software 221.9 MB now and evo calendar factory is using 120MB
[13:40] <willcooke> It's snowing!
[13:42] <willcooke> ..and stopped
[14:12] <mitya57> Can someone please top-approve my no-change MP https://code.launchpad.net/~mitya57/indicator-applet/libpanel-applet3/+merge/323131 so that Bileto allows me to publish it?
[14:12] <mitya57> seb128, can you please? ^^
[14:12] <seb128> mitya57, done
[14:13] <mitya57> thanks!
[14:52] <davmor2> willcooke: oh ffs and app you open that is linked to an indicator of some sort keeps that apps memory footprint open and slowly leaks memory so gnome-calander is now at 373.6 MB
[14:52] <willcooke> wow
[14:54] <davmor2> willcooke: oh wait no, it was syncing again dropped of the face of the earth now...that was scary for a second
[14:55] <willcooke> phew
[14:56] <davmor2> hmmmm gnome software at 225.3 MB and tracker-extract is at 224.6 MB
[15:23] <davmor2> meh wth why are there foldery type things for system tools and sundry that list more apps in the apps view of the dash
[15:23] <davmor2> why are there only 2 categories
[15:33] <davmor2> Laney, seb128: Okay I'm confused on this.  K3b shows in the dash and in gnome-software, krita however only shows in gnome-software why would that be?
[15:36] <Laney> not sure
[15:40] <davmor2> I'm looking for others to see if there is anything common with them
[15:41] <davmor2> Laney: blender does it too
[15:41] <Laney> are you talking about gnome-shell?
[15:41] <Laney> snap or deb?
[15:41] <davmor2> I'm wondering if it is that the dash doesn't understand snaps and the snap is shown in the list first in gnome-software
[15:42] <davmor2> Laney: yeap I only have gnome now :)
[15:42] <Laney> ok, well I don't think it's called the dash in shell
[15:42]  * kenvandine wonders what it is called :)
[15:42] <Laney> and try installing the deb, then you have some information
[15:42] <kenvandine> activities overview?
[15:43] <davmor2> Laney: people refer to it as the dash in gnome videos so that was my assumption
[15:45] <Laney> I think the launcher is the dash and the dash is the overview, in which you search
[15:45] <Laney> ICBW though
[15:45] <kenvandine> that could be
[15:45] <kenvandine> we need a unity -> gnome-shell cheat sheet :)
[15:45] <davmor2> Laney: ah yes you are right they shoe the overview but discuss the dash which is the launcher
[15:46] <davmor2> man this is gonna get confusing
[15:46] <Laney> anyway
[15:46] <Laney> what is in $XDG_DATA_DIRS for you?
[15:46] <Laney> I think that should have something about snap
[15:47] <davmor2> I have the rocketchat-client snap installed and that shows up fine in the overview, but I think the fall over is when you don't have either snap or deb installed but both are available
[15:48] <davmor2> installed krita.deb and now it shows in the overview
[15:48] <xnox> Trevinho, sometime on the upgrade to zesty or to artful, tap to click got disabled.
[15:49] <davmor2> be right back need to reboot for nvidia blob install
[15:49] <xnox> Upgraded to the 2730 bileto ppa and amazon webapp came back again.... *grumble* do we not remember that people removed it, still?!
[15:49] <xnox> otherwise things look and work good.
[15:49] <xnox> Trevinho, can we release the ticket? =)
[15:51] <Laney> davmor2 doesn't respond to questions
[15:54] <davmor2> and back
[15:56] <Laney> try logging in under X instead of Wayland
[16:02] <willcooke> xnox, re: Amazon web app - I don't think we did remove that.  I think it remained even after we turned off dash searches by default.
[16:03] <willcooke> I'm going through my emails to try and find a record of that decision now...
[16:15] <davmor2> Laney: so where the hell do you switch from one to the other?
[16:16] <Laney> the cog at gdm
[16:17] <davmor2> Laney: nope I see Gnome and Gnome Classic no other options
[16:17] <Laney> not GNOME on Wayland?
[16:18] <davmor2> Laney: I'll pick it up again tomorrow
[16:18] <davmor2> willcooke: I assume the logo will change to an ubuntu one and away from the Shazam look alikey one right :D
[16:19] <Laney> well for the record I think the problem is XDG_DATA_DIRS not containing the snapd entry
[16:19] <davmor2> Laney: might be as I say though I'll pick it up in the morning
[16:21] <Laney> as you wish
[16:22] <willcooke> davmor2, yeah I imagine so
[16:45]  * oSoMoN is done with bug triaging for today
[16:48] <willcooke> night oSoMoN
[16:51] <oSoMoN> have a good one willcooke
[16:52] <jbicha> seb128: we'll probably drop the help:ubuntu-help patches now, LP: #1686267
[16:52] <ubot5> Launchpad bug 1686267 in ubuntu-docs (Ubuntu) "please move ubuntu-help/ to gnome-help/" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1686267
[16:53] <jbicha> I think that was partly why GunnarHj was asking about XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP earlier
[16:54] <GunnarHj> It was. :)
[16:57] <seb128> jbicha, if GunnarHj is fine with it, sure
[17:01] <willcooke> g'night all, dinner time