[04:54] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[05:29] <lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/best-unity-desktop-features
[05:39] <lotuspsychje> morning xangua
[05:40] <xangua> Good midnight
[05:41] <lotuspsychje> lol
[05:41] <lotuspsychje> late night irc is the best
[05:58] <EriC^^> lotuspsychje: the other day this guy came that had an acer, every time he enters the bios or boot options menu it resets to booting windows xD
[06:00] <lotuspsychje> hmm
[06:07] <lotuspsychje> rainy here again
[06:13] <lotuspsychje> http://www.networkworld.com/article/3192311/linux/lessons-learned-from-the-failure-of-ubuntu-touch.html
[06:17] <lotuspsychje> http://www.deviantart.com/art/Fedora-677149963
[06:17] <lotuspsychje> wonder what this sidebar is
[06:17] <lotuspsychje> nite nite Bashing-om
[06:18] <Bashing-om> And outta here :) see ya on my flip lotuspsychje .
[06:18] <lotuspsychje> dream on Bashing-om
[06:20] <ducasse> hi all
[06:52] <lordievader> Good morning
[07:00] <lotuspsychje> bbl guys, have a nice one
[07:00] <lotuspsychje> garden shop today
[07:02] <ducasse> hi lordievader, all well?
[07:36] <lordievader> Doing good here, how are you ducasse ?
[07:38] <EriC^^> hey ducasse lordievader
[07:39] <ducasse> morning EriC^^. good, thanks, having a nice sunny day here.
[07:43] <lordievader> Hey EriC^^, how are you?
[07:44] <EriC^^> good thanks you?
[07:46] <lordievader> Doing good here, having my second coffee.
[08:29] <brunch875> 'morning folks
[08:33] <jink> ducasse: I realized last night that you meant the YubiKey to log in to the GUI.  I was asking about Google Authenticator for ssh.  That was totally unclear.
[08:34] <ducasse> jink: i use the yubikey for ssh, i don't actually use it for the gui on my desktop any longer.
[08:35] <jink> Oh.
[08:35] <jink> How does that work?
[08:36] <ducasse> i have a yubikey with ccid (smartcard) support, so i've generated gpg keys on the 'card' and use an authentication subkey for ssh auth. works like a charm.
[08:41] <jink> Just found https://www.linode.com/docs/security/gpg-key-for-ssh-authentication because I had no idea what you were talking about.
[08:43] <jink> Oh, Yubi have their own guide, too.
[08:44] <ducasse> you can use the otp functionality as well, but that requires an auth server. yubico provides one, and the software to set up your own is in the repos. i prefer this solution.
[08:45] <ducasse> iirc i got challenge-response to work also, but that gave me some other issue. don't remember what.
[10:28] <ducasse> EriC^^: you still around?
[10:28] <EriC^^> hey
[10:28] <EriC^^> what's up?
[10:29] <ducasse> just wanted to tell you there was a bug filed on grub-install in yakkety, i commented on it to say it's still there.
[10:29] <EriC^^> ah ok cool
[10:30] <ducasse> i'll try to figure out what the pages were generated from, if it's a format i know i'll take a look. :)
[10:30] <EriC^^> ok :)
[10:31] <ducasse> i just get annoyed by bugs like that - small cosmetic things that should take a minute to fix but nobody cares enough :)
[10:32] <EriC^^> yeah, there's a lot of typos and stuff here and there
[10:32] <EriC^^> i wish somebody would write a proper man page for cpio, it's lacking alot!
[10:33] <ducasse> 'see also cpio(5)', which doesn't exist, and a link. fantastic. ;)
[10:34] <EriC^^> hehe
[10:37] <ducasse> wish i was good at writing docs, it's a skill i don't have unfortunately :) the community definitely needs more writers, and ui designers. too many code monkeys ;)
[10:43] <EriC^^> hehe yeah :D
[12:08] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[12:10] <ducasse> hiya, BluesKaj
[12:11] <BluesKaj> Hey ducasse
[12:12] <ducasse> all things good in your world?
[12:13] <BluesKaj> my gpu looks like it's destroying itself , it's running at 107C
[12:14] <BluesKaj> there's no way to enable the built in fan manually
[12:14] <BluesKaj> it's normal temp was between 70-80C
[12:16] <ducasse> wow, that's high. can't be good over time.
[12:21] <BluesKaj> it kept dropping the video to a black screen about every 10mins  last night while watching a Hi def video ...nut it's just a cheap 40 buck nvidia 8400GS ..gonna buy new one today , the associated HW might be affected so I think it's time to replace it
[12:22] <ducasse> right. what are you thinking of getting instead?
[14:16] <BluesKaj_> ducasse, I just ordered this, https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B004I5UDO6/ref=pe_386430_126088100_TE_item ..this card fits my needs perfectly
[14:18] <ducasse> that looks decent enough :) no 4k, but you might not need that now or soon?
[14:19] <BluesKaj_> no 4k in our futurre til the sources become more available
[14:20] <BluesKaj_> we still have alot of std def analog tv broadcasting here
[14:20] <jink> PS4?
[14:21] <ducasse> i don't care much about it either. my desktop can do it, but i didn't go for a 4k screen with any of my monitors. nor my tv, my eyesight is probably not good enough to enjoy it :)
[14:23] <BluesKaj_> markets under 150k population are still allowed to broadcast analog here , however most ppl have either cable or sat service  with the analog as a fallback in those markets
[14:29] <ducasse> everything here is hd now, afaik. i still don't feel a need for 4k yet, though. hope the new gpu works well, btw.
[14:29] <BluesKaj_>  yeah, 4k wouldn't make a lot if different to our old eys, having seen a 4k demo was not a revelation for us , it was nice but not worth the money  in our opinion
[14:29] <BluesKaj_> of
[14:30] <BluesKaj_> ok ,stuff to do for a few hrs ....BBL
[14:30] <ducasse> have fun :)
[14:44] <lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
[14:44] <EriC^^> afternoon lotus
[14:49] <lotuspsychje> hey EriC^^
[14:56] <lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/ubuntu-17-10-daily-build-downloads-now-available
[15:11] <lotuspsychje> wb xangua, hi doomlord
[15:11] <doomlord> hi
[15:11] <xangua> Hola
[15:11] <doomlord> so i hear unity is no more, gnome-shell will be adopted
[15:11] <doomlord> gnome-shell ...
[15:11] <lotuspsychje> doomlord: 17.10 will start with it
[15:12] <doomlord> ...  seems to be capable of genius, but the default setup out of the box is absolutely abysmal.
[15:12] <doomlord> i guess they will come up with their own prefered set of extentions?
[15:13] <doomlord> i can see what they're trying to do though, with touchscreen friendly design
[15:13] <lotuspsychje> doomlord: shuttleworth said, they will not interfere gnome's way's too much
[15:13] <doomlord> i dont have a touchscreen computer , so i'm not seeing it's best
[15:13] <xangua> When Ubuntu used gnome 2 it didn't come with some specific Ubuntu extension
[15:13] <doomlord> i beleive it is possible to design a good UI for both
[15:13] <doomlord> gnome2 was ok though
[15:13] <doomlord> gnome shell deafulats are absolutely fucking retarded
[15:13] <lotuspsychje> doomlord: please keep it familly friendly here
[15:14] <doomlord> but if you spend some time digging up extentions, it can be made good
[15:14] <doomlord> hah ok
[15:14] <xangua> The only thing they added at the last moments was indicators, and they were added to xfce and lxde too by the way ;-)
[15:14] <doomlord> there is an opportunity to make something great with a well curated set of gnome-shell extentions
[15:15] <doomlord> one big question i have though is apple-legalities
[15:15] <doomlord> does apple stop gnome from doing 'globalmenu',
[15:15] <doomlord> i struggling to understand why anyone would setup a defaul where the entire top strip of the screen is consumed just showing the time
[15:16] <doomlord> no one is that stupid
[15:16] <doomlord> so i have potential explanations like "they really want global menu , but apple block it" ,   or   "it's a space waiting for extentions"
[15:17] <doomlord> the pre-unity Gnome default setup was utterly retarded too, I must admit
[15:17] <doomlord> unity had a lot of good sense behind it
[15:17] <nacc> doomlord: seems like that would be a question for gnome
[15:18] <xangua> doomlord: KDE has has a global menu since KDE 3
[15:18] <xangua> Gnome 2 also had a global menu thing
[15:18] <doomlord> i think people can get away with globalmenu if it's not entirely apple-esque.  Gnome-shell looks a lot more like "mission-control", with the window +desktop thumbnails
[15:19] <doomlord> i suspect this is also why they make it vertical instead of horizontal
[15:19] <xangua> Also Apple didn't invent the global menu
[15:19] <doomlord> they did not, but they monopolized it
[15:19] <xangua> Ok....
[15:19] <doomlord> i'm not justifying apple, i'm just speculating why things happen
[15:19] <lotuspsychje> alot of users use apple...
[15:19] <doomlord> i used globalmenu on the Amiga
[15:20] <doomlord> to this day I am very OCD about globalmenu - the windows style makes me seriously uncomfortable
[15:20] <doomlord> i look for apps that allow the menu to be hidden
[15:20] <xangua> You could put the unity global menu in the window decorators
[15:20] <doomlord> but my favourite is globalmenu
[15:21] <doomlord> yeah i've never used that version of unity, i've been using XFCE most often lately
[15:21] <xangua> You still can in 16.04/17.10 :-P
[15:21] <doomlord> actualyl i've been using the Mac most often lately.. i would really like to ween myself off it, but there's lots of sticking points that keep me gravitating back (globalmenu being one of them)
[15:22] <doomlord> i was just messing aroudn with gnome shell yesterday - and dug through the extentions, and basically it looks promising
[15:23] <doomlord> i can see a few bits of polish /curated extentions could make it amazing
[15:23] <daftykins> macOS is bloody horrible
[15:23] <lotuspsychje> look what i found this morning: http://www.deviantart.com/art/Fedora-677149963
[15:23] <lotuspsychje> looks lot like unity like that
[15:23] <daftykins> o0
[15:23] <lotuspsychje> hey daftykins :p
[15:24] <daftykins> \o
[15:24] <daftykins> how goes it, lotus?
[15:24] <lotuspsychje> great here mate
[15:25] <daftykins> \o/
[15:26] <daftykins> just set up a cheap Samsung for my client to use down in Spain, as his fiber service down there came with two mobile phone SIMs heh
[15:26] <lotuspsychje> lol
[15:27] <doomlord> daftykins  I am afraid I say the opposite : I vastly prefer the Mac OSX desktop over everything else
[15:27] <lotuspsychje> yikes
[15:27] <daftykins> doomlord: then there is no hope for you :)
[15:27] <doomlord> daftykins i can list the key featurse that i like
[15:27] <doomlord> first is globalmenu
[15:27] <daftykins> er nah i'm good thanks :P
[15:27] <doomlord> actually one version back was best
[15:27] <daftykins> i feel like i'm swimming through treacle when i work on them - and i do know my way around them, keyboard shortcuts 'n' all
[15:27] <doomlord> the way missioncontrol worked was *perfect*
[15:28] <daftykins> Apple input devices are just horrible
[15:28] <ducasse> oh god, yes.
[15:28] <doomlord> again, exact opposite.  the mac trackpad gestures on a laptop are amazing
[15:28] <lotuspsychje> and expensive
[15:28] <nacc> doomlord: tbh, i'm not sure it's sensible to list what you think makes things perfect
[15:28] <nacc> doomlord: as that's not what any distribution does
[15:28] <nacc> doomlord: greatest common denominator is arguably the target
[15:28] <nacc> if you love  macos, go use macos?
[15:28] <doomlord> i still like linux
[15:29] <doomlord> i dont want to pay the apple tax on all hardware; i like the combination of an apple laptop, linux desktop
[15:29] <nacc> but you want it to look like macos?
[15:29] <nacc> uh ...
[15:29] <doomlord> not *look like*, but behave like.
[15:29] <nacc> potato, potato
[15:29] <doomlord> the icons and colourschemes could be different
[15:29] <lotuspsychje> oO
[15:29] <nacc> basically, you want a macos UX
[15:30] <nacc> at which point, use macos
[15:30] <nacc> or write a metapackage that does that for you and get it in the archive
[15:30] <daftykins> doomlord: ah no i'm talking about an iMac there which i'm working on for someone at the moment
[15:30] <nacc> i absolutely would hate for that to be the default
[15:30] <lotuspsychje> or use OsX with a gnome wallpaper
[15:30] <doomlord> mac OSX isn't perfect though, it's just my favourite 'out of the box'
[15:30] <daftykins> input devices on a laptop will always feel like swimming through treacle :D
[15:30] <daftykins> it's no longer called OS X fwiw ;)
[15:30] <doomlord> yeah managing a set of customizations is a question i have
[15:31] <doomlord> I am also open to new ideas.
[15:31] <doomlord> its just new ideas do have to be better :)   some workarounds are tolerable too.
[15:32] <doomlord> I like an option to move windows between desktops using the scrollwheel, that 'feels as rapid' as missioncontrol (i.e. the ease of organizing windows between workspaces)
[15:32] <nacc> doomlord: better *for you*
[15:32] <doomlord> sure, i dont claim there's an absolute truth in UI
[15:32] <lotuspsychje> doomlord: not sure how your start question unity to gnome changed to mac os X suddenly
[15:32] <nacc> i have no idea what missioncontrol is
[15:32] <doomlord> choice is good.   (Missioncontrol is apples name for the desktop overview)
[15:33] <daftykins> i always took the approach that if you keep trying to change back when newer things come along, you will forever be fighting the future - so it's better to force yourself to adapt
[15:33] <doomlord> well with linux, the future can be shaped
[15:33] <doomlord> now i am aware there's a 'future' with touchscreens,   which i'm not participating in just yet.. some UI choices seem to be driven by touchscreen laptops,
[15:34] <doomlord> and haven't microsoft made a 'tilting all-in-one'
[15:34] <doomlord> apple had a patent for that ages ago, the idea of a computer which you tilt to an angle for touch interaction on a desktop
[15:34] <daftykins> yes but that's a specific device for creative professionals
[15:34] <daftykins> and it's bad even for them XD
[15:34] <doomlord> i can imagine things continuing to evolve to touchscreens
[15:35] <daftykins> if they did i haven't read about a sueball heading their way yet :>
[15:35] <doomlord> touchscreen + voice
[15:35] <daftykins> if so, it won't be future for me
[15:35] <daftykins> touchscreen for a desktop doesn't make sense to me, anyway
[15:35] <doomlord> http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2010/08/the-mother-lode-welcome-to-the-imac-touch.html
[15:35] <daftykins> *a future
[15:36] <doomlord> I think when voice processing (using neural-net chips?) gets beyond a certain threshold, the situation might look different
[15:36] <doomlord> voice+touch might be a great combination
[15:37] <doomlord> anyway, i'm not 100% set on all that,, but i can see why they want to make UI's more touch-friendly
[15:37] <doomlord> the big titlebars with the icons inside them
[15:37] <doomlord> maybe this will kill off traditional desktop menus
[15:38] <daftykins> er they've been disappearing for ages here in Windows land
[15:38] <daftykins> browsers have them hidden, explorer lost them too in 7...
[15:38] <doomlord> thats because windows had the most retarded setup, with 'in-window' menubars
[15:38] <doomlord> and windows has been trying to go touchfriend, with the touchscreen laptops
[15:39] <doomlord> touch-friendly^
[15:39] <daftykins> yeah they failed big time with 8
[15:39] <daftykins> but why would you say that specifically about MS when *buntu has too?
[15:39] <doomlord> nevermind
[15:40] <doomlord> so back to the subject,   can ubuntu deliver a nicely tweaked gnome shell.
[15:40] <daftykins> yeah, i was smelling a bit too much MS hatred there.
[15:40] <daftykins> heh i sure as hell don't care :D
[15:40] <doomlord> i haven't used MS in a long time
[15:40] <daftykins> servers \o/
[15:40] <daftykins> oh i can tell
[15:40] <doomlord> thats how much i hate it maybe , lol.
[15:40] <doomlord> i hated it so much i stopped using it.
[15:41] <doomlord> mac laptop + linux desktop.
[15:45] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-17-10-artful-aardvark-daily-build-iso-images-now-available-to-download-515179.shtml
[15:46] <lotuspsychje> ill wait till alpha2 :p
[15:46] <lotuspsychje> then start heavy bugging out
[15:59] <daftykins> ;)
[16:10] <lotuspsychje> bbl souper
[16:21] <Bashing-om> Bad weather approaching - I may be gone in a hurry :(
[16:34] <immu> hi all
[16:34] <daftykins> lo
[16:35] <immu> whats up amigos
[16:35] <daftykins> mmm just working
[16:54] <immu> coool