/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2017/05/03/#ubuntu-desktop.txt

oSoMoNgood morning08:00
Laneyhey08:02
davmor2Morning all08:06
davmor2Laney: any idea when there will be iso images for AA08:07
Laneywasn't aware there wasn't tbh08:07
Laneynot that I've tried08:07
Laneyhttp://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/daily-live/pending/ looks ok to me08:08
dufludavmor2: They work too (I just installed). But expect Unity7 still08:11
dufluAlso the installer icon on the desktop fails - you can find it in the dash08:12
dufluinstead08:12
davmor2Laney: yes that's not released, released would be in current. Pending is like something in proposed08:13
LaneyI...08:13
LaneyI...08:13
LaneyI know...08:13
LaneyYour question was "when there will be iso images"08:13
dufluI thought pending meant just pending testing(?)08:13
Laneyit wasn't "why aren't there iso images in current?"08:13
davmor2duflu: yes the same as proposed08:14
dufluKind of... except I also thought that yesterday's pending can be today's 'current' and plenty of stuff in proposed is not installed by default still08:15
dufluSo not related to 'proposed' ?08:15
LaneyIt's not related to artful-proposed08:16
LaneyIt's just some smoke tests that are run on the images and probably need to be configured for artful still08:16
davmor2duflu: yes only the yesterdays is todays current bit isn't happening :D08:16
dufluWell, for most of the year (fingers crossed)08:16
davmor2Laney: do you know how the transition from unity → gnome will happen?08:53
Laneyubuntu-desktop will be updated and it will install gnome instead of unity08:56
davmor2Laney: right but would that happen on upgrades too or just fresh installs, I ask because it isn't how it has happened in the past and was checking on the expected behaviour so I can test for it later09:28
Laneydavmor2: yes upgrades too09:33
Laneyit's sort of open what settings will be migrated and stuff though09:34
davmor2Laney: right so at the package level it'll be a gnome-x replaces unity-x and so on right rather than what we have done in the past which was to additionally install gnome-x along side unity-x right?09:39
Laneydavmor2: It won't uninstall packages off your system if that's what you are asking09:48
davmor2Laney: right so people would still be logging into unity by default then09:48
LaneyI don't know what you're trying to get out of me09:51
LaneyNo09:51
davmor2Laney: I'm trying to gauge what would happen on upgrade from 16.04.x to 18.04 and 17.04 to 17.10 so that I can confirm the expected happens basically :)09:52
LaneyI would expect some kind of transition from Unity sessions to GNOME Shell sessions09:52
Laneyit's possible that people will still be able to use Unity but I think that will have to be an explicit choice to go back09:54
davmor2Laney: right thanks09:54
Laneymaybe at the very start it'll be a bit rough :)09:56
LaneyI think Ken's going to do the initial bit of work there09:56
Laney(sorry if I made that up)09:56
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* Laney sucks at cdbs10:43
jbichaLaney: good morning10:46
jbichajust convert it to dh ;)10:46
jbichaso, gnome-terminal fails to build because no one submitted Unity7 to https://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apb.html10:47
Laneynot really something that I maintain10:47
jbichaand 'make check' runs desktop-file-validate https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-terminal/ubuntu/view/head:/debian/patches/01_onlyshowin.patch10:48
Laneyare you sure about that? https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9794710:48
ubot5`Freedesktop bug 97947 in general "validate: Add Unity7 and Unity8" [Normal,New]10:48
jbichacan we get allison[m] to approve that?10:49
LaneyJust make it say Unity10:50
LaneyThe 7/8 thing isn't the relevant any mroe10:50
Laneys/the/that/10:50
jbichaok, gnome-terminal doesn't run on Unity8 but whatever10:51
Laneyif it turns out Unity 8 gets maintained then we can think about this kind of thing again10:52
Laneybut I wouldn't waste time on it atm10:53
jbichamakes sense10:53
jbichaare you going to sync the other gstreamer universe pkgs? https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?email=pkg-gstreamer-maintainers%40lists.alioth.debian.org10:57
LaneyI think I need to do python and editing something and rtsp10:58
andyrockgood morning11:00
jbichaby the way, do-release-upgrade asked me if I wanted to remove obsolete pkgs for artful upgrade; unity8 was part of the obsolete pkgs11:08
Laneygood11:10
jbichaso many people upgrading may get Unity removed (I'm guessing if they manually installed some indicator or something that wanted Unity the removal might not happen though)11:11
mitya57Laney, hi, what’s the status of https://code.launchpad.net/~malaperle/ubuntu-themes/ubuntu-themes/+merge/294568 ? Should I include it in my ubuntu-themes landing?12:30
Laneymitya57: evidently not uploaded, so feel free12:32
LaneyI thought it was though12:33
Laneyso maybe check?12:33
mitya57Oh right, it was merged12:35
Laneydunno why the mp isn't marked as so12:35
Trevinhohey guys13:25
Trevinhokenvandine: I fixed the issue with shadows and resizing in GS..13:26
kenvandineTrevinho, woot!13:26
TrevinhoI need to cover other cases tho, so I've not a MP ready yet13:26
kenvandineTrevinho, what was it?13:26
Trevinhokenvandine: 'decoration' class had to set the margin (and the border-radious to get rid of the corners) too.13:27
kenvandineTrevinho, cool, let me know when you have an MP ready13:27
kenvandineTrevinho, and thanks!13:27
Trevinhokenvandine: sure13:28
Trevinhokenvandine: for now you can just have the fix with13:28
Trevinhohttp://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24505169/13:28
GunnarHjjbicha: Any chance you can sponsor the gnome-user-docs patch? Since you subscribed to the bug report, I haven't (yet) subscribed ubuntu-sponsors.13:32
jbichaGunnarHj: I'm already looking at it :)13:36
GunnarHjjbicha: Cool, thanks!13:36
oSoMoNqengho, hey, not sure if you saw my question last week about chromium translations?14:02
oSoMoNI was wondering whether https://translations.launchpad.net/chromium-browser/translations/+templates is still in use?14:02
qenghooSoMoN: I have some tools to construct debian patches to apply Launchpad translations, but they're not well tested.14:51
qenghooSoMoN: Upstream doesn't carry any translations from Launchpad.14:52
oSoMoNqengho, and what about desktop file translations? if we were to update the strings in the desktop file (see bug #1668730), how do we go about updating the template, and then the actual translations in the desktop file, is there a tool for that?15:03
ubot5`bug 1668730 in chromium-browser (Ubuntu) "Tweak .desktop Actions for more consistency" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/166873015:03
qenghooSoMoN: I don't know of a tool for desktop file, but there may be a generic one.15:05
* qengho brb15:06
Laneyplars: any chance you could review https://code.launchpad.net/~xnox/utah/skip-wubi-more/+merge/323328 please?15:27
plarsLaney: I'm not a utah guru, and I don't really have a good way to test it but I can sanity check and ack if that's all you need?15:29
Laneyplars: if it gets merged that's what I need15:30
plarsLaney: done!15:30
Laneythanks :D15:30
Laneynow... hope the smoke tests run from the branch15:31
plarsLaney: I have no idea if someone has it setup with tarmac, so let me know if I need to manually merge it or something15:31
xnoxplars, to be honest that python script is fairly stand alone. I believe i did run it just against the iso, sans any utah-voodo15:33
Laneydon't see any bot comments on recent MPs15:33
xnoxplars, it looks like it's manual push thing.15:33
Laneyso no tarmac AFAICT15:34
plars:(15:34
Laneythen xnox can kick the job again15:36
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oSoMoNqengho, I take it from your previous comment about upstream that http://davidplanella.org/chromium-opens-to-community-translations-in-launchpad/ is no longer a thing?15:41
plarsLaney: xnox: pushed to trunk15:43
Laneyplars: cheers15:45
plarshappy to help15:46
Laneynow if only I had powers on platform-qa-jenkins O:)15:47
xnoxLaney, to be honest, we need to sort that out.15:48
xnoxLaney, i want more admin admin rights there, to grant other people rights.15:48
Laneygo forth and seek them out15:49
xnoxtriggered https://platform-qa-jenkins.ubuntu.com/view/desktop/job/ubuntu-artful-desktop-amd64-iso-static-validation/15:49
Laneylooks bad15:49
qenghooSoMoN: Correct. Chromium has professional translators, and were always a bit hostile to translation contribution.15:51
xnoxLaney, plars - hm, i can't remember how new utah code got deployed. i wonder if there is some recipe that builds the packages and updates things. cause i can't see any checkouts of code anywhere at the moment.15:54
Laneyxnox: I think it might have to be deployed on that venonat host15:55
xnoxhttps://code.launchpad.net/~utah/utah/dev/+recipes15:56
xnoxlooks encouranging15:56
xnoxit was built by magic 8 minutes ago. i wonder if it got triggered on commit somehow15:56
xnoxhttps://code.launchpad.net/~canonical-platform-qa-jenkins/+recipe/utah-production15:56
Laneythat's what happens yeah15:57
Laneybut will it get dist-upgraded to on the host?15:57
xnoxlet's see if things are better tomorrow =)15:57
Laneylet's forget and remember in a week*15:58
Laney:P15:58
xnoxaha16:00
xnoxhttps://platform-qa-jenkins.ubuntu.com/view/All/job/iso-testing-setup/configure16:00
xnoxhas things like:16:01
xnoxsudo add-apt-repository -y ppa:canonical-platform-qa-jenkins/canonical-platform-qa-jenkins-prod16:01
xnoxsudo apt-get update16:01
xnoxsudo apt-get install -y --force-yes download-latest-test-iso dl-ubuntu-test-iso utah16:01
xnox[ -d /data/iso ] || sudo mkdir /data/iso16:01
xnoxsudo chown -R jenkins:jenkins /data/iso16:01
xnoxpip3 install --user junit_xml16:01
xnoxlooks one needs to manually trigger it16:01
xnoxINFO: Skipped: Skipping images without wubi.16:02
xnoxwin16:03
plars\o/16:06
Laneynice16:08
Laneykeep an eye on https://platform-qa-jenkins.ubuntu.com/view/desktop/job/ubuntu-artful-desktop-amd64-smoke-default/2/console16:09
Laneyargh16:10
Laneynext door are doing drilling16:11
flocculantLaney: downstairs drilling at 11pm couldn't work out why I was so £$%£$%^ at him16:12
xnoxLaney, checkout https://platform-qa-jenkins.ubuntu.com/view/desktop/ now, amd64 went into full test all the things mode now =)16:14
xnoxand i386 will soon too.16:14
xnoxLaney, can we please stop making i386 desktop images?!16:14
Laneydunno16:15
jbichaxnox: Ubuntu GNOME was probably days away from announcing that there would be no more UG i386 images after 18.04 LTS when Mark made his little announcement first…16:24
xnoxjbicha, after 18.04? as in you still wanted to make 18.04 LTS i386 images?16:25
* xnox is *sad*16:25
jbichaxnox: yes, because it's not nice to strand people on 17.04 or 17.1016:25
jbichaso if you want i386 to go away, at least for flavors now is the time to push for it16:26
Laneyhttp://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/daily-live/current/ looks updated16:26
xnoxLaney, smoke default passed for both i386 and amd64, so the links should be updated, yeah.16:26
xnoxjbicha, you say that about stranding people, the argument was that we will not be able provide security support for i386 for key server and desktop things.16:27
xnoxand therefore it will fallout, e.g. if firefox drops i386 support16:28
xnoxit will affect 16.04, as we do wholesome backports for firefox security updates.16:28
tjaaltonand upgrades would still be possible without images16:28
jbichaxnox: do you want to start the ubuntu-devel list thread then?16:28
xnoxtjaalton, yes that.16:28
jbichatjaalton: the Ubuntu GNOME proposal was to *kill* upgrades too16:29
tjaaltonjbicha: ah16:29
xnoxjbicha, no, you will not be allowed to do that.16:29
jbichaupdate-manager/do-release-upgrade would not allow upgrading past 18.04 LTS16:29
xnoxbecause it is a lot of pain, on the archive maintaince side of things16:29
xnoxwe have tried to e.g. kill upstart on s390x alone, and that caused a hell of a lot of pain, due to transient arch:all packages.16:29
xnoxwhich jump hoops with arch:any depends.16:29
jbichaof course, there is a workaround if someone really wanted to install i386 but it wouldn't be supported by Ubuntu GNOME16:29
jbichaxnox: I think I'm talking about something different than what you are?16:30
jbichaalso, flavors tend to have shorter support frames16:30
jbichahttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/32bit_support16:31
* ogra_ sighs ... so my terminals are back to taking minutes to start when spawned with ctrl-alt+t ... and i forgot what the workaround was that i had to use last time this happened16:31
xnoxnot really, most flavors did sign up for the full LTS cycles.16:31
xnoxjbicha, i think we will keep packages in the archive. Even if we e.g. publish i386 ones into universe, and amd64 ones into main.16:31
flocculantxnox: which flavour signed up for full LTS cycle? I know Xubuntu doesn't16:32
jbichaxnox: I think Kylin was the only flavor to do 5 years for 16.0416:32
jbichaKylin 16.04 was just Unity plus a bit more so that makes sense16:33
flocculantnot sure about Kubuntu - but I pretty sure others are 3 years16:33
xnoxflocculant, need to check the ubuntu-publishing thing with the info.16:34
jbichaxnox: yes, if you read the wiki link I posted, I explicitly said that i386 packages would still be built for now; there just wouldn't be images and do-release-upgrade wouldn't let you upgrade16:34
xnoxapt-cache should show the years of support field.16:34
xnoxwhich for kubuntu on xenial appears to be 9m =/16:35
xnoxxubuntu is 3y16:35
xnoxat least as per metadata16:35
* flocculant is glad you said that ...16:36
jbichahttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/XenialXerus/ReleaseNotes/#Official_flavours16:36
xnoxok, email sent.17:01
xnoxi hope this is not going to hit softpedia / omg ubuntu / what-not like the upstart email i sent the other day17:01
jbichaxnox: you might as well email them too since you know they're going to report it :|17:03
xnoxjbicha, well, i added an opening note for those journalists.17:04
jbichawhy do you want to maintain the upgrade path?17:05
jbichaif you think it's unsupportable, then don't have an easy upgrade button!17:05
xnoxjbicha, i do not want to maintain the upgrade path; but we will maintain the archive, because otherwise it is a load of pain17:05
jbichawell you used the words "upgrade path"17:06
xnoxjbicha, server/IoT will be supported, and unwinding desktop on one arch, but not the others is a lot of work, and it constantly clogs up britney as we have discovered when we compiled unity8 on s390x by accident and then tried to back-paddle out of it.17:06
* xnox goes to read my message again17:06
jbichaxnox: why can't we just have do-release-upgrade and update-manager *not* offer the upgrade if ubuntu-desktop (or similar metapackage) is installed?17:07
xnoxjbicha, on the flavors bit. Yes, because it will be available. We may choose not to publish upgrade-manager metadata, but the upgrade will be available.17:07
xnoxjbicha, we can, but one is better off with supported i386 base from 18.04 even if the desktopy stuff is not supported anymore.17:08
xnoxbecause we will maintain the core/base/platform stuff for i386 still in 18.04 due to IoT and cloud-guest.17:08
jbichaxnox: then they can just use the netinst or manually hack their sources.list17:08
xnoxmy ultimate thinking there was this17:08
xnoxwe cannot safely or easily or automatically cross-grade people from i386 to amd6417:09
jbicharight17:09
xnoxthus we will keep the archive there (even if with updates enabled)17:09
xnoxand just wait for all of them to reinstall into amd64.17:09
* xnox by updates i mean upgrade-manager17:09
xnox"continue to support the declining i386 classic desktop/server user base"17:10
xnoxand by support, i mean not do much at all =)17:10
jbichaunless you make it difficult for them, some people will keep using i386 for as long as they can17:10
oSoMoNqengho, thanks, that confirms what I suspected17:10
jbichaif it's a pain to install, then they might just try the easier amd64 option17:10
xnoxjbicha, i don't want to break people's installs intentionally. The biggest drop-off of i386 usage came from stopping  advertising the images.17:10
xnox(existing installs)17:11
jbichahow will it break installs?17:11
xnoxby making them insecure, because we will have a supported i386 kernel, and I do want people to use supported i386 kernels.17:11
xnoxdisabling upgrades, is effectively making those installs vulnerable.17:11
xnoxbecause internet is a nasty place with funny cat videos.17:12
jbichaI'm sure there will be plenty of guides showing them how to install from netinst because it's not *that* difficult17:12
jbichaI got the impression that in a year or two or so, we will break people's installs by forcibly removing Firefox from i386 computers?17:16
jbichaso it would be better to be more firm about making existing users aware that the platform is no longer supported for desktops17:17
mdeslaurI don't think we should upgrade i386 users to later releases...just let them get to the end of their support period and have update-manager just pop up the usual "no longer supported" dialog17:21
xnoxjbicha, well, if we remove firefox i386, i'm sure we will install something useful to replace that. e.g. w3m or elinks....17:21
* xnox *giggles*17:21
mdeslaurwe will unlikely be testing i386 desktop packages if we don't have install media17:21
xnoxmdeslaur, we currently uder test i386 install media; but we do test i386 packages quite a bit via autopkgtesting. But it is more server/cli focused.17:22
mdeslauryeah, but we do test i386 security updates17:22
xnoxmdeslaur, i disagree about the ugprade paths. Leaving i386 users on 17.04 is sad, leaving them on 16.04 or 18.04 is responsible.17:22
mdeslaurwhich we probably won't be doing anymore17:22
xnoxmdeslaur, you will because of iot.17:23
mdeslaurxnox: not desktop packages, no17:23
xnoxand that does include web browser engine17:23
xnoxbecause of sinage17:23
xnoxsignage?17:23
xnoxthe kiosk thing17:23
mdeslaurxnox: I guess getting broken updates is better than getting no updates17:24
mdeslaurperhaps17:24
xnoxmdeslaur, i don't buy that no test security updates. You are doing them for i386 for 16.04. Thus we can at least make 18.04 i386 desktop a 3year support thing, no?17:24
xnoxmdeslaur, or possibly 4yr because of 16.04 ESM17:24
xnoxmdeslaur, yeah, i am for broken updates on i386.17:24
xnoxat least we will have some feedback about that, rather than leaving, knowngly, vulnerable machines out there.17:25
mdeslaurxnox: you're suggesting supporting i386 18.04, but just not having install media?17:25
xnoxyes.17:25
mdeslaursorry, I need to re-read your post17:25
mdeslaurI guess we could netinst a desktop system for testing17:26
xnoxmdeslaur, we support existing installs only "continue to support the declining i386 classic desktop/server user base"17:26
xnoxmdeslaur, you will boot the cloud image and install ubuntu-desktop17:26
xnoxwe will have cloud images, because we must for cloud-guest container; buildds; adt testing; and to produce/test iot & core/snappy.17:26
mdeslaurI can install a cloud image on real hardware?17:27
xnoxmdeslaur, yes.17:28
xnoxmdeslaur, it's call MAAS or subiquity17:28
mdeslaurah, with the subiquity installer, I see17:29
xnoxhave you tried subiquity? the UX is amazing17:29
mdeslaurxnox: can I use my mouse? :P17:29
xnoxalthought it did not succeed for me, to complete.17:29
mdeslaurno, I didn't try it17:29
xnoxmdeslaur, better you can use Alexa to guide it, thanks to the Amazon Cloud Voice recognition API17:30
mdeslaurlol17:30
xnoxand auto-configuration with router config.17:30
jbichaGunnarHj: I think I'll have gnome-user-guide recommend ubuntu-docs if you don't mind (instead of depends)17:42
GunnarHjjbicha: In that case I actually think that depends is more correct. Given the pending changes in debian/rules, gnome-user-guide won't work without ubuntu-docs (no index.page file).17:44
jbichait depends on how big of a deal the "circular dependency" problem really is17:45
GunnarHjIs that bad style?17:45
jbichaI don't think I've ever experienced a problem because of it, but Debian people tell me it is bad17:45
GunnarHjok17:45
GunnarHjjbicha: But then I'd say depends in gnome-user-docs and recommends in ubuntu-docs, i.e. the other way around.17:46
jbichaI believe Debian upgrades are more complicated than Ubuntu ones17:46
jbichaGunnarHj: ok, I'll upload gnome-user-docs with Depends: ubuntu-docs17:47
GunnarHjjbicha: Should I make that change in ubuntu-docs?17:47
GunnarHji.e. recommends instead of depends...17:48
Hensterhey guys , my new Msi windows laptop is looking a bit lonley should i install the 16 lts or the new 17 dual boot  .. i like the idea i only need to partision one for version 17 drive ?17:48
jbichaGunnarHj: yes, unless someone else says we can ignore the circular dependency issue on Ubuntu17:49
GunnarHjjbicha: Let's be cautious; I'll change it.17:50
Henstershould i just do Gnome .. aaah im so undesided now ,, want to cry ,,,17:52
GunnarHjjbicha: Just to be clear: I can wait with uploading ubuntu-docs 17.10.3 until after gnome-user-docs is in release, right?18:17
jbichaGunnarHj: yes or you can upload now18:23
GunnarHjjbicha: Hmm.. Suppose I can do it now since it no longer *depends* on u-g-d. I'll do so, so we have all the control stuff in place.18:26
cyphermoxjbicha: g-c-c MIR is "accepted" inasmuch as the only issue I have with it is that unit tests aren't being run18:40
jbichacyphermox: since you're here, could you look into LP: #1687474 and LP: #1686726 ?18:42
ubot5`Launchpad bug 1687474 in gnome-user-docs (Ubuntu) "[MIR] gnome-user-docs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/168747418:42
ubot5`Launchpad bug 1686726 in gnome-getting-started-docs (Ubuntu) "[MIR] gnome-getting-started-docs" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/168672618:42
cyphermoxsure, they're open tabs, I just had to deal with other stuff first :)18:43
cyphermoxoh, dh_scour: we should fix that, I saw another such bug and I should still have some code somewhere18:45
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jbichacould you be more specific about control-center? it looks to me like we are not disabling tests there18:49
cyphermoxjbicha: g-s-s, I got things mixed up19:04
jbichaok, understood19:06

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