[06:23] <oSoMoN> good morning
[08:05] <Laney> hey
[08:05] <Laney> it's a nice day!
[08:08] <duflu> Morning Laney. You must have sent me your clouds. Haven't seen any for a long time till today
[08:11] <Laney> hey duflu
[08:11] <Laney> the prospect of rain must be welcome for you?
[08:12] <duflu> It's a novelty. Clouds are a novelty
[08:13] <Laney> we've had much less than the normal amount of rain recently
[08:18] <Laney> xnox: looks like you won the fight
[08:38] <andyrock> morning
[08:42] <Laney> hey andyrock
[08:42] <Laney> you good?
[08:43] <andyrock> not bad, enjoying spring
[08:43] <andyrock> what about you?
[08:44] <duflu> Morning andyrock
[08:44] <andyrock> hey duflu
[08:44] <davmor2> forgot to say morning all
[08:44] <davmor2> so morning all
[08:45] <davmor2> Laney: I see we have our first iso woohoo!
[08:45]  * duflu perks up
[08:45] <Laney> andyrock: not bad!
[08:48] <Laney> hi davmor2
[08:48] <Laney> yes, by one way of counting
[08:52] <xnox> Laney, it shall be forever known as the Motreal job
[08:53] <Laney> initctl stop upstart :'(
[09:02] <xnox> we will still need to do the great repeal act of unity* stuff
[10:00] <jbicha> good morning
[10:01] <jbicha> here's a bad bug (non-Ubuntu I believe): https://learntemail.sam.today/blog/freeing-disk-space-with-the-packagekit-cache/
[10:08] <davmor2> Laney: do you know why there are identical items in the notifications section of system settings for gnome at all? I thought it might be obvious when I clicked on them but neither of them are different
[10:10] <Laney> don't know what you mean
[10:12] <jbicha> davmor2: I think that's another side effect of the issue from LP: #1662296
[10:12] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1662296 in unity (Ubuntu) "Remap renamed .desktop files" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1662296
[10:13] <davmor2> jbicha: ah okay that would make sense
[10:13] <jbicha> although gnome-control-center should probably not show stuff that has NoDisplay=true set
[10:14] <jbicha> I see duplicates for Archive Manager and Files which are apps where we duplicate the .desktop
[10:17] <Laney> I imagine you could add "&& !g_desktop_app_info_get_nodisplay (app)" here https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-control-center/tree/panels/notifications/cc-notifications-panel.c#n515
[10:18] <Laney> or g_app_info_should_show()
[10:24] <jbicha> davmor2: are you going to follow up on the NoDisplay bug with GNOME?
[10:27] <davmor2> I'm doing some deep dive testing at the minute so as soon as that is over there will be a raft of bugs issuing forth so that the teams involved can decide what to kept and lose etc
[10:37] <Laney> jbicha: is there a gnome-software branch or package with the meson build somewhere?
[10:40] <jbicha> Laney: I have not done anything with gnome-software 3.24 (at least not since like Zesty Feature Freeze)
[10:42] <Laney> ok
[10:43] <jbicha> if you're working on meson though, maybe we should get the debhelper meson support into artful to try that out?
[10:47] <Laney> maybe, doesn't really matter to me
[10:47] <Laney> that's a trivial part of it
[10:48] <Laney> just didn't want to duplicate work
[10:51] <jbicha> the only meson thing I've done so far is https://anonscm.debian.org/git/pkg-gnome/graphene.git/tree/debian/rules
[12:23] <oSoMoN> Sweetshark, hey, I was wondering what the rationale was for checking out the sources from git instead of using a release tarball in https://git.launchpad.net/~bjoern-michaelsen/df-libreoffice/+git/libreoffice-snap-playground/tree/parts/plugins/x_libreoffice.py?h=xenial ?
[14:07] <xnox> Laney, are we going to maintain indicators, that are used by e.g. unity7 and other flavors? or are we gonna remove all of them?
[14:08]  * xnox at the moment skips everything that is in use by any other seeds, e.g. unity7
[14:09] <kenvandine> xnox, i've been thinking we'd just leave them in universe and see if anyone that needs them helps keep them working
[14:09] <kenvandine> s/leave/demote to/
[14:09] <ogra_> xnox, given sabdfl promised users that unity7 would be in universe in 18.04 they shouldnt be removed but just demoted (i guess the hope is MOTU picks them up or some community devs care for them)
[14:10]  * ogra_ high fives kenvandine 
[14:10] <kenvandine> :)
[14:10] <Laney> 'given to the community' is a joke
[14:12] <gQuigs> I'd rather see us do a Gnome-Shell based "Unity Classic" mode or something
[14:12] <Laney> but as things stand I think, yes, leave unity 7 things
[14:13] <xnox> ogra_, there was no such promise about unity7... where did you see that? he said "ubuntu desktop team will work on replacing unity7 with gnome by 18.04 lts" when we remove unity7 is up to us.
[14:13] <ogra_> xnox, in his announcement and on G+
[14:13] <xnox> obviously we cannot remove unity7 things until we have switched to gnome and things mostly work.
[14:13] <ogra_> (and in a few interviews)
[14:13] <xnox> ogra_, do you have urls? i've stopped using g+ for a while now.
[14:13]  * xnox goes to google things
[14:14] <ogra_> i think OMGubuntu aggregated some of that
[14:14] <Laney> I wouldn't worry about it right now
[14:14] <ogra_> in an article or two
[14:14] <Laney> Just do the Unity 8 / phone stuff at first
[14:15] <jbicha> xnox: "Unity7 packages will continue to be carried in the archive, I know there are quite a few people who care enough about it to keep it up to date.
[14:15] <jbicha> I expect it will be in universe for 18.04 LTS." from https://plus.google.com/+MarkShuttleworthCanonical/posts/7LYubpaHUHH (his comment is about 30 comments down)
[14:15]  * xnox reads https://insights.ubuntu.com/2017/04/05/growing-ubuntu-for-cloud-and-iot-rather-than-phone-and-convergence/ and there is nothing about keeping unity7 around
[14:16] <xnox> jbicha, Laney - i am sceptical that people care about keeping unity7 packages uptodate, given that the experience will degrade as we move things over to GNOME-like, e.g. menus disappearing and similar.
[14:17] <Laney> Fine, yes, I agree as I just said
[14:17] <Laney> but you don't have to solve all the problems at once
[14:17] <xnox> true.
[14:19] <Laney> :)
[14:19] <Laney> thanks for working on the deletions
[14:20] <ogra_> xnox, "Unity7 packages will continue to be carried in the archive, I know there are quite a few people who care enough about it to keep it up to date. I expect it will be in universe for 18.04 LTS" ... from marks comments in https://plus.google.com/+MarkShuttleworthCanonical/posts/7LYubpaHUHH ... it was spread by several news sites (phoronix, omgubuntu etc)
[14:20] <jbicha> ogra_: that's what I said! ;)
[14:20] <xnox> ogra_, well he can expect anything =) include unity8, convergence, and phone taking over the world ;-)
[14:20] <xnox> ogra_, well he can expect anything =) including unity8, convergence, and phone taking over the world ;-)
[14:20] <ogra_> (this is also where he says thet mir development for IoT goes on)
[14:21] <xnox> ogra_, sure, mir does; qtmir on the other hand....
[14:21] <ogra_> qtmir will surely live on somewhere in a ubports PPA
[14:21] <xnox> ogra_, foundations position is that we should not be keeping unmaintained bit-rotting code in the archive, and pretending that "well it can be there, because we don't really support it anyway"
[14:21] <ogra_> (if they find the manpower to make the project survive)
[14:22] <mdeslaur> xnox: oh! can I make you a list of all the unmaintained bit-rotting code that is in the default images? :)
[14:22] <ogra_> lol
[14:22] <ogra_> multi-screen in 6px font ?
[14:24] <xnox> mdeslaur, i know that you want to remove simply everything. =)
[14:24] <xnox> mdeslaur, where shall we start with unmaintained things: glibc, openssl, linux -> so many bugs, so many CVEs, unbelievable, worst deal ever.
[14:24] <xnox> mdeslaur, but honestly, if there are concerns about unmaintained things, yes let's look at what we want to drop.
[14:25] <xnox> mdeslaur, my mini-personal goal is to shrink main by 30%
[14:26] <mdeslaur> that would be nice
[14:26] <jbicha> xnox: I'll try not to nominate you for ~ubuntu-mir then ;)
[14:26] <mdeslaur> hehe
[14:27] <mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/graphs/packages.png
[14:28] <xnox> mdeslaur, so https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2016-February/016208.html caused 1521 packages to drop off?! nice =)
[14:28] <mdeslaur> xnox: yep! :)
[14:28]  * jbicha files more MIRs to get the graph back up to 8000 ;)
[14:29] <xnox> jbicha, has gnome exploded into thousand source packages yet?
[14:29]  * mdeslaur is happy jbicha is volunteering to do security updates!
[14:29] <jbicha> ugh
[14:29] <mdeslaur> hehe
[14:30] <mdeslaur> we only have a 74 usn backlog at the moment
[14:32] <ogra_> mdeslaur, just make sure the packages with USNs are on xnox's removal list ... done
[14:32] <mdeslaur> he mentioned php and the kernel, right? :)
[14:33]  * xnox would love to remove perl and php
[14:33] <ogra_> sublimal he did i think
[14:33] <mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/graphs/pkgs-xenial.png
[14:33] <ogra_> *sublimally
[14:34] <xnox> hmmmmm are we dropping oxide-qt and webbrowser-app?
[14:34] <kenvandine> xnox, i thought there was a kiosk use case we cared about there
[14:35] <xnox> kenvandine, yes, but i herd that doesn't use that, or does it?
[14:35] <xnox> kenvandine, yes, but i heard that it doesn't use that, or does it?
[14:35] <kenvandine> oSoMoN, ^^
[14:35] <ogra_> well, that would mean you need to keep the qml framework as well
[14:35]  * xnox ponders who from kiosk people i can talk to
[14:35] <ogra_> ... which definitely nobody maintains anymore
[14:36] <kenvandine> oSoMoN would likely know more about that
[14:36] <xnox> kenvandine, i heard it uses "chromium direct to mir" but i have no idea if that, in fact, is oxide-qt or not.
[14:36] <jbicha> yeah, it looks like oSoMoN is the only one to make oxide commits recently
[14:36] <ogra_> i also think you cant use the browser-support interface on UbuntuCore currently ... so kiosk is moot atm
[14:36] <ogra_> (probably desired though)
[14:37] <ogra_> kenvandine, i would expect such apps to be electron based in the end
[14:37] <kenvandine> ogra_, perhaps
[14:38] <oSoMoN> kenvandine, jbicha: I haven’t heard anything about the fate of oxide yet
[14:39] <kenvandine> oSoMoN, do you know if the kiosk work is based on oxide-qt in any way?
[14:39] <jbicha> chrisccoulson: oxide? ^
[14:40] <kenvandine> oSoMoN, i seem to remember some talk about that, but i wasn't involved so didn't really pay attention :)
[14:40] <oSoMoN> kenvandine, the prototype was, I don't know about the real thing though
[14:40] <kenvandine> ah
[14:41] <gQuigs> was there a real thing?  I've only seen a prototype?
[14:41] <gQuigs> ..
[14:43] <jdstrand> ogra_: you can use browser-support on core. it is no longer implicit classic. I tested this with mir on dragonboard and webbrowser-app
[14:44] <jdstrand> oSoMoN: that was the prototype ^
[14:44] <ogra_> jdstrand, ah, cool ... last time i checked (quite a while ago) it wasnt
[14:44]  * jdstrand worked to make the interfaces and policy work for the signage use case
[14:50] <xnox> oSoMoN, any idea who is working on the new world order kiosks?
[14:51] <oSoMoN> xnox, nope
[16:33] <kenvandine> jbicha, have you looked into the autopkgtest failures in shotwell?
[16:34] <kenvandine> UInput: UInputError('"/dev/uinput" cannot be opened for writing',)
[16:35] <jbicha> kenvandine: yes, https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=781802
[16:35] <ubot5`> Gnome bug 781802 in import "Ubuntu import autopkgtest fails with 0.26.1" [Major,New]
[16:36] <jbicha> is the ios8 patch more important or the regression it introduces? is the regression important or just a problem with the umock file? I don't know
[16:36] <kenvandine> interesting
[16:36] <kenvandine> ok
[16:38] <jbicha> I also opened https://bugs.debian.org/861579
[16:38] <ubot5`> Debian bug 861579 in shotwell "shotwell: 0100-ios8.patch fails Ubuntu's autopkgtest" [Normal,Open]
[20:45] <kenvandine> gnome-software uses a surprising amount of memory without even having the app open
[20:46] <kenvandine> virt, but still 1.6G is a bit crazy
[20:59] <jbicha> kenvandine: yes, bug 1592678 complains about other problems of it always running
[20:59] <ubot5`> bug 1592678 in gnome-software (Ubuntu) "gnome-software starts very early in the session, slowing down boot" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1592678