[07:52] <Trevinho> so quiet this morning...
[07:53] <Trevinho> your morning :-)
[07:55] <oSoMoN> good morning!
[08:02] <Laney> hey
[08:02] <willcooke> morning Laney
[08:03] <oSoMoN> hi Laney, willcooke
[08:03] <Laney> hey willcooke
[08:03] <Laney> good trip back?
[08:03] <Laney> hi oSoMoN
[08:04] <willcooke> morning oSoMoN
[08:04] <Laney> how are you?
[08:04] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:04] <Laney> so glad for tab completion with your nick
[08:04] <oSoMoN> I’m good, thanks :)
[08:04] <willcooke> Laney, uneventful.  I got upgraded on the way there becuase my TV was broken.  Alas not on the way back.
[08:04] <Laney> can't win 'em all
[08:04] <Laney> hey davmor2
[08:05]  * oSoMoN makes a note to complain next time I travel and the TV is broken
[08:05] <oSoMoN> hey davmor2
[08:09] <duflu> Morning UK
[08:09] <duflu> and Europe
[08:10] <willcooke> hey davmor2 & duflu
[08:10] <duflu> willcooke: Silly question: Is there any reason for having Pulse at all other than mixing and per-app volumne? Seems like a poor choice if it's those features vs decades of bugs
[08:11] <duflu> *volume
[08:11] <willcooke> duflu, afaik it does some software sample rate conversions as well, but that might well be a hangover from the bad old days.
[08:12] <duflu> willcooke: Sounds trivial. I just wonder why must we bother ourselves with years of pain and bugs for such a tiny feature gap pulse is filling...
[08:13] <willcooke> iiinteresting
[08:13]  * willcooke reads up 
[08:13] <duflu> I mean, by now any software project that age should be perfect, or should be dead
[08:14] <willcooke> Looking at the Pulse pages here https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/About/
[08:15] <willcooke> Software mixing - I expect ALSA handles that just fine now
[08:15] <willcooke> Network - dont think anyone uses this by default
[08:15] <willcooke> API abstraction - we only use ALSA, so !care
[08:15] <duflu> Heh. I did around 1997
[08:16] <willcooke> Hardware abstraction - which it says boils down to per app volume... which is... not super exciting
[08:16] <willcooke> Does GStreamer rely on Pulse at all?
[08:17] <willcooke> duflu, so I can't see any immediate concerns, but let's socialise it a bit and see if anyone has any strong feelings.  I don't know enough to make a call.
[08:18] <willcooke> Laney, any thoughts on Pulse?
[08:18] <duflu> willcooke: Yeah no problem, me neither. Just started bug bashing but I had to wonder why complicate the architecture in the first place...
[08:19] <willcooke> My expectation is that it made sense at the time, and we never revisited
[08:20] <duflu> I'm wondering if it's now something like "because that's what the applets use exclusively"
[08:21] <Laney> What's the actual problem?
[08:24] <willcooke> Just something else to maintain
[08:24] <dednick> it's pulse doing the output switching?
[08:24] <dednick> ie, plug in hdmi, earphones
[08:25] <dednick> *doing it badly*
[08:25] <Laney> Feels like a party like it's 2007 Linux hatefest
[08:26] <dednick> :) i've been having issues with it running on gnome. Seemed to work better with u7 for some reason.
[08:26] <dednick> loosing all sound sometimes. seems to be getting confused when switching outputs.
[08:27] <willcooke> Laney, I don't think so, not really. More a case of a critical look at a component.  It makes sense to review it, even if that decision is "keep it and fix bugs".
[08:27] <dednick> plug earphones in/out again and it starts to work.
[08:28] <duflu> Laney, to be fair I've got my back up about non-Ubuntu problems today. But it's still an objective question: Does the functionality provided outweigh the cost/pain of maintenance?
[08:31] <Laney> duflu: I think we don't know what the functionality is, what the cost is, or what the pain is, or even really what the bugs are.
[08:32] <duflu> Laney: Fair point. I'm only about 5% through the Pulse bug list and will learn more. Was just hoping someone might know off the top of their head
[08:32] <Laney> Or what kind of maintenance costs having a different stack from the rest will incur.
 Oh, you're on Ubuntu? They don't have pulse so that's probably your bug. BYE!
[08:40] <Laney> Feeling a bit grumpy this morning, sorry for being short
[08:41] <willcooke> "Looks like someone's got a case of the Mondays"
[08:41] <willcooke> *hugs*
[08:46] <duflu> Laney, I wish you a pleasant Monday and pleasant week.
[08:47] <davmor2> willcooke: I'm still suffering from friday
[08:47] <duflu> Sounds like an excellent Friday
[08:47] <willcooke> davmor2, that sucks man.  I'm really sorry. :(
[08:47] <duflu> ?
[09:19] <Trevinho> ah hey Laney, willcooke, oSoMoN e duflu
[09:19] <Trevinho> :)
[09:20] <duflu> Evening Trevinho
[09:20] <duflu> Wouldn't it be great to sprint in Asia, right after you get home? :)
[09:20] <Trevinho> evening... it's sitll afternoon :-P
[09:20] <duflu> Getting darkish, so I called it
[09:20] <Trevinho> yeah... let's do it here..
[09:20] <Trevinho> It's cheap :)
[09:21] <Laney> hey Trevinho
[09:23] <Trevinho> hey Laney...
[09:23] <Trevinho> Laney: speaking of the devil... Would you mind to give a look to these debdiff https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-software/+bug/1689239 ?
[09:24] <Trevinho> Or i'd break things apps soon once my updated themes will be there...
[10:04] <duflu> Hmm, not just dark but also noisy frogs telling me it's night time
[10:04] <duflu> Good night
[10:11] <jbicha> Trevinho: hi, yes I saw the bug but hadn't gotten to it yet
[10:12] <Trevinho> jbicha: ok, good
[10:13] <jbicha> if I understand you correctly, your patches are to support a future change to ubuntu-themes?
[10:14] <willcooke> jbicha, re: webapp - I've not looked properly yet - but does your suggestion handle the geo-specific stores, like if I run it here in the UK, I get the .co.uk version, in the States I get the .com version etc?
[10:14] <jbicha> willcooke: that's up to the website so the answer should be yes
[10:15] <jbicha> willcooke: for instance, the BBC News app gives me bbcnews.com instead of bbcnews.co.uk
[10:15] <willcooke> Humm, I think that didnt work properly for some reason.  I'll look at what we used to do and check
[10:15] <willcooke> Maybe we have different referral codes depending on which store you hit.
[10:16] <jbicha> just a blind guess, but if you have to do stuff like that, maybe you would need to patch webkit directly?
[10:17] <willcooke> Or a wrapper which works out what's what and launches the correct site - probably easier than patching webkit :)
[10:19] <jbicha> maybe
[10:26] <willcooke> yeah, we have different codes depending on which site is launched:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~webapps/libunity-webapps/trunk/view/head:/src/runner/unity-webapps-runner-amazon.c
[10:26] <willcooke> we could re-use that
[10:37] <Laney> Trevinho: what updated theme?
[10:37] <Laney> are you going to SRU these fixes?
[10:41] <Trevinho> Laney: I'm fixing ambiance/radiance to work properly in GS (keeping unity compatibility)
[10:46] <Laney> Okay
[10:46] <Laney> Well I'm not sure it's sensible for us to keep carrying UI patches for Unity in applications
[10:52] <jbicha> …particularly because we never got around to patching many GNOME apps so it's still going to be inconsistent
[10:57] <Laney> Guess it's okay to update existing patches though
[10:57] <willcooke> I spoke to the design team last week about the possibility of a new theme, I need to follow up with them this week and find out if that's going to be possible this cycle.  In the meantime though getting Amb/Rad generally working in G-Shell is worth doing.  And as Laney said, I dont think keeping U7 working perfectly should be a priority.  Getting them working in G-Shell first should be the priority
[10:58]  * Laney nods willcooke 
[11:03] <Trevinho> willcooke: sure... That's what I'm doing in fact. Just I prefer not breaking things for unity too... As it's just easy changes to apply
[11:03] <Trevinho> (to the patches we already carry)
[11:06] <flocculant> willcooke: jfyi - I had to fiddle with pulseaudio - finally got around to looking into why the dac always said 44.1kHz, then I stopped that and went to alsa so it doesn't muck about at all
[11:07] <willcooke> Trevinho, ack, thanks
[11:14] <Trevinho> Laney: do we have a list of app for which we did patches to remove headerbar?
[11:15] <Laney> doubtful
[11:42] <jbicha> Trevinho: epiphany is another one
[11:43] <Trevinho> jbicha: mh, ok... fix is easy, when we carry patches... it's just to update this
[11:43] <Trevinho> jbicha: I currently updated only the default installed ones...
[11:45] <jbicha> eog & evince
[11:52] <Laney> xnox: so how did you make that list?
[12:10] <xnox> Laney, multiple ways. 1) I used the demote email, from when unity8-desktop-session was demoted from main to universe 2) then I also used http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu-touch.artful/touch.sources (combined with touch-core.sources, touch-*.sources, sorted and uniquified)
[12:11] <xnox> then i tool all of those source packages and filtered them, to exclude things that are seeded anywhere.
[12:11] <xnox> and then did a check to see if a package exists in debian, and filtered that out as "to sync"
[12:12] <xnox> e.g. we have forked android-tools bits, which we should now sync from debian.
[12:12] <xnox> i think i also looked through it manually, to remove things that are generic.
[12:12] <xnox> ...
[12:14] <xnox> it's mostly complete, apart from a few things that got seeded in other distros, and does not touch anything that is unity7 related (as all of that is still seeded in ubuntu-desktop)
[12:47] <Laney> xnox: ok, commented, thanks
[12:47]  * Laney goes to eat a burrito
[12:47] <xnox> *nom* *nom*
[12:47] <willcooke> awh man
[12:48] <willcooke> I would also like a burrito
[12:48] <xnox> Laney, nice review =)
[12:48]  * xnox thought watershed was only used by upstart jobs, will check
[12:49] <Laney> xnox: while read pkg; do chdist apt-cache artful-amd64 showsrc $pkg; done < removals-take-1.txt  | grep-dctrl -sPackage,Version .
[12:49] <Laney> willcooke: it's just a supermarket one, don't be too sad :P
[12:49] <xnox> nice =)
[12:49] <willcooke> ah, right.  In which case, be lucky.
[12:50] <xnox> Laney, i did ask before, but is there at all any way to grep autopkgtest dependencies?
[12:50] <Laney> afraid not
[12:50] <Laney> wait
[12:51] <Laney> xnox: You can look at Testsuite-Triggers
[12:53] <xnox> Testsuite-Triggers? where is that?
[12:53] <Laney> in the .dsc
[12:53] <Laney> therefore in Sources.gz
[12:54] <Laney> Might not be there for things which haven't been uploaded in ages or whatever, but should be good enough
[12:54] <xnox> nice... can we teach reverse-depends about it?
[12:54] <Laney> probably
[12:56] <Laney> ooh, firefox formats json
[12:57] <Laney> anyway, burrito: back shortly
[14:21] <zzarr> hello! is there any way to install Ubuntu on a x86 based Android tablet? (I have an ASUS Zenpad 10 Z300C / P023)
[16:53] <willcooke> dinner, bbl
[17:22] <Sweetshark> https://opensource.googleblog.com/2017/05/oss-fuzz-five-months-later-and.html <- yo guys.
[17:51] <willcooke> Thanks Sweetshark, much appreciated
[17:52] <willcooke> I can't grok their reports at all.  There doesn't seem to be a link back to a fix at LO
[17:54] <Sweetshark> willcooke: They just linked to the list of issues: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/oss-fuzz/issues/list?can=1&q=Proj%3Dlibreoffice+Type%3DBug-Security+status%3ANew%2CAccepted%2CFixed%2CVerified&colspec=ID+Type+Component+Status+Proj+Reported+Owner+Summary&cells=ids
[17:54] <willcooke> Sweetshark, right, but each of those issues is unreadable to me
[17:55] <willcooke> It says "It's fixed" but doesnt provide any links to where it's fixed afaict
[17:55] <oSoMoN> « ClusterFuzz has detected this issue as fixed in range 201612212121:201612220925. »
[17:55] <oSoMoN> it gives a window in which the fix was committed upstream, I guess?
[17:56] <oSoMoN> a link to an upstream commit would be useful indeed
[17:57] <Sweetshark> oSoMoN: oss-fuzz just autosdetects "build it a day later. issue was gone", there is little human interaction in oss-fuzz there ...
[17:58] <willcooke> ah, I see
[18:00] <Sweetshark> FWIW, I dont think libreoffice is the only thing to worry about (or even the most to worry about). I mean: 10 FreeType2 issues, 17 FFmpeg issues, 10 GnuTLS, 25 PCRE2? each of those are use by half the world.
[18:00] <Sweetshark> s/use/used/
[18:01] <willcooke> heh - it's good practice at least :)
[20:04] <Trevinho> Laney: this is what I meant https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu-themes/gs-decorations-fixes/+merge/323760
[20:04] <Trevinho> and.... bed time now
[20:48] <willcooke> night all