[00:10] <bluesabre> evening all
[00:11] <knome> hello bluesabre 
[00:11] <bluesabre> hi knome
[00:11] <bluesabre> how's it going?
[00:11] <knome> not bad
[00:11] <knome> playing openttd (surprise!)
[00:13] <bluesabre> :O
[00:25] <knome> bedtime
[00:25] <knome> nighty!
[00:43] <Unit193> bluesabre!
[01:47] <bluesabre> Unit193!
[07:11] <flocculant> woohoo here we go then ... locking appears to have changed 
[07:15] <Unit193> WFM!
[07:15] <sorinello_> what locking ?
[07:16] <Unit193> Session locking, by default uses light-locker and lightdm.
[07:16] <sorinello_> ok, that locking
[07:16] <sorinello_> what changed ?
[07:16] <Unit193> Beats me, I use xscreensaver.
[07:17] <sorinello_> old school. 
[07:19] <flocculant> it locks ok 
[07:19] <flocculant> just must lock differently now - cos music when locked :)
[07:22] <flocculant> check the non-bastardised install later I guess ...
[07:23] <sorinello_> flocculant, the change you are talking about, comes from xfce upstream ?
[07:24] <flocculant> nope
[07:26] <flocculant> sorinello_: obviously I'm also not talking about 17.04,16.10 or 16.04 either ;)
[07:26] <flocculant> anyway - bbl
[07:27] <sorinello_> I know. I was just wondering who made this change since it doesn't come from upstream
[11:15] <flocculant> ahah 
[11:15] <flocculant> sussed that one then - so lock disables sound from pulseaudio
[11:16] <flocculant> if you happen to play through alsa - it doesn't :)
[11:16] <flocculant> wasn't using mpd and alsa last time I looked at locking ...
[16:27] <Spass> I'm installing daily on my laptop right now and I have an issue with step 3. (If on a 'laptop') Is plugged to a power source
[16:28] <Spass> I don't see that option during install preparation, only info about downloading updates and third-party software
[16:33] <Spass> oh wait...
[16:38] <Spass> yeah something is not right here, it doesn't detect my Windows installation either, I wanted to test "Install (auto-resize)"
[16:40] <Spass> so one question here - is it supposed to detect my Windows 7 installation (UEFI) when I booted USB with Legacy Boot option?
[16:47] <flocculant> Spass: I don't do uefi or secure boot - but I would suspect that it's not supposed to - try booting in uefi mode perhaps?
[17:00] <Spass> flocculant: ok, installation booted when I activated my USB drive to be visible as an option with UEFI boot, but to procedure is somewhat different now
[17:01] <Spass> I don't get 'Try Xubuntu' and 'Install Xubuntu' on welcome screen, instead I had to choose it on Grub menu
[17:02] <Spass> I assume that test case was prepared strictly for non-UEFI installs
[17:02] <Spass> but now it detects my Windows installation at least
[17:06] <Spass> 1) https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8qh4-wxxEZ7Zzl3aTdwemdwRm8
[17:06] <Spass> 2) https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8qh4-wxxEZ7QjBzclU1RjhBZDg
[17:07] <Spass> that empty welcome screen 2) doesn't look inviting
[17:08] <flocculant> re grub - probably expected - can't be sure
[17:08] <flocculant> re welcome screen - seems like no network recognised
[17:11] <Spass> in the next step I connected to my wifi and when I come back to that screen I see small text on top "You may wish to read the release notes." but it still feels pretty empty there
[17:11] <flocculant> don't know what a different flavour sees when uefi/non uefi? 
[17:11] <flocculant> well what do you want it to say? 
[17:12] <flocculant> anyway - that's beyond our influence
[17:13] <Spass> nothing really, it just looks empty, and I know it's not important, sorry for "complaining" about small things
[17:14] <flocculant> not a problem - sometimes it's something we can affect :)
[17:14] <flocculant> biab
[17:28] <Spass> another question, I remember when I've installed Xubuntu some time ago I saw a screen with check marks about sufficient disk space, internet connection and plug-in to power
[17:29] <Spass> is this screen removed in the newer versions?
[17:34] <Spass> I'm asking because now I don't know where I should find an info about my laptop being plugged-in to power, according to 3. in this testcase http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/376/builds/147231/testcases/1301/results
[17:38] <Spass> "17. Click the Restart now button - GUI is shut down, a prompt to remove media and press Enter appears"
[17:39] <Spass> nope, after clicking restart I'm stuck on this screen https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8qh4-wxxEZ7YUtLZmdQMGFpdDQ/view
[17:49] <Spass> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8qh4-wxxEZ7cnJ1TGFoLXJLUms - it would be nice to see Xubuntu instead of Ubuntu in the grub menu, but besides that everything works fine, both systems boot
[18:10] <flocculant> Spass: that screen with checkmarks went a while ago I believe
[18:13] <Spass> ok, I submitted my results on the tracker
[18:13] <flocculant> and not really sure about the power thing for laptops - don't have one
[18:14] <Spass> Passed, but with comments
[18:14] <flocculant> maybe grab a different iso - Ubuntu or something and see what that does
[18:14] <flocculant> could be they just show power in panel or indicator
[18:14] <flocculant> which would then be a testcase bug
[18:15] <Spass> during installation process I saw two indicators on top panel, sound and network, no power
[18:16] <Spass> I will try with Ubuntu 16.04 for example
[18:16] <flocculant> mmm - and with 17.04 - what did you see ? If you remember :)
[18:18] <Spass> I've upgraded my PC from 16.10, and when I lastly installed Xubuntu on my laptop I remember that screen with check marks, so it was probably 16.04
[18:39] <Spass> and I think someone mentioned it already - double-tap functionality on my ALPS DualPoint TouchPad doesn't work out of the box, but it started working after I installed 'xserver-xorg-input-synaptics' package and rebooted
[18:44] <Spass> Ubuntu 16.04 installation shows I'm plugged-in on the top panel
[18:45] <flocculant> PaulW2U edited libinput.conf iirc 
[18:46] <Spass> plus many other things that I didn't saw on Xubuntu 17.10, like Bluetooth icon, accessibility, keyboard layout
[18:47] <Spass> I'll check Ubuntu 17.04 now
[18:47] <flocculant> Spass: ok thanks - need to know if that's a regression 
[18:53] <Spass> ehh, another ff crash :/
[18:53] <flocculant> ...
[18:53] <flocculant> davmor2: on ubuntu 17.10 do you see power and bluetooth etc ? 
[18:59] <flocculant> knome: sigh - why won't our wiki let me reset password :|
[19:03] <knome> flocculant, no idea...
[19:03] <knome> it's standard dokuwiki though
[19:03] <knome> pleia2, want to look if there's anything fishy in the sendmail/whatever conf?
[19:04] <flocculant> ftr - it sends me temp password, which works, go to profile - enter new, confirm it and current (temp) and it clears all fields
[19:05] <flocculant> worked the last time I forgot the password - before you two were doing whatever you were doing last week ;)
[19:05] <pleia2> tsk, remember your password next time!
[19:05] <pleia2> ;)
[19:05] <knome> that was just a migration to https, shouldn't affect...
[19:07] <flocculant> famous last words :D
[19:07] <pleia2> unless there's hard coded http in dokuwiki for some reason, but that would be really awful
[19:07] <pleia2> (maybe in a setting?)
[19:07] <knome> i can look...
[19:08] <flocculant> also it now forgets I was logged in ...
[19:08] <knome> can't see anything that's realted
[19:08] <knome> *related either
[19:11] <Spass> flocculant: I've just checked Ubuntu daily, I can see the all the icons during installation process
[19:11] <pleia2> flocculant: I just reset my password via email with no problems, not sure what's going on for you :\
[19:12] <pleia2> changed password after I got a temp one
[19:12] <flocculant> Spass: ok cheers
[19:12]  * pleia2 shrugs
[19:12] <flocculant> pleia2: mmm 
[19:13] <pleia2> anyway, woo new password that hasn't been shared over http 400 times
[19:13] <knome> ;)
[19:13] <pleia2> (and I would recommend everyone update their wiki password now that we're using https)
[19:13] <Spass> plus this issue is present on Ubuntu AA too (when I try to 'shut down' from install) https://goo.gl/SYTIil
[19:13] <Spass> shut down on 16.04 worked fine, so I think this could be a regression
[19:13] <flocculant> Spass: that comes and goes ... 
[19:14] <Spass> oh, ok
[19:14] <flocculant> there is a bug somewhere - check for one by davm or2 - he's a Canonical chappy
[19:14] <flocculant> you can add that to the iso tracker
[19:14] <flocculant> pleia2: I have - it's now something I have no chance of remembering - ever :|
[19:15] <flocculant> frankly - just another reason for me to not use this wiki - don't like it at the best of times ...
[19:16] <pleia2> flocculant only uses websites that don't require passwords
[19:16] <flocculant> no - flocculant uses websites where he can change temp passwords ;)
[19:17] <knome> i just changed my password as well
[19:17] <knome> are you sure you don't press the "reset" button?
[19:20] <flocculant> oh d'oh
[19:22] <flocculant> was pressing the reset button ... not reading them - just assuming that muscle memory thing of yes being on the right 
[19:22] <flocculant> still don't like the wiki even if I can change the password :p
[19:22] <knome> so... we're liking the wiki again? :P
[19:22] <flocculant> no
[19:23] <flocculant> still prefer the ubuntu one - don't much like the way bullets look to start with
[19:23] <flocculant> don't like that I can't put colours on things
[19:24] <flocculant> but heyho whatever
[19:24] <knome> i like that i don't have to wait 15 minutes to log in and 5 minutes for a page load even if it means we can't have a plugin-bloated wiki
[19:24] <flocculant> well yea - it does have at least 1 positive :D
[19:25] <Spass> flocculant: thank you for your patience, to summarise I had two small issues with Xubuntu AA install - only two indicators on the top panel (there are seven on Ubuntu) and Grub menu showing Ubuntu instead of Xubuntu after install
[19:25] <flocculant> anyway back to fighting with Friday's trasncript
[19:25] <Spass> I assume I should go with this now? http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/377/builds/146768/testcases
[19:27] <flocculant> Spass: ok so I would think missing power icon on aa is a problem < ochosi ?
[19:27] <flocculant> Spass: package tracker is there - but none of the testcases have been checked against current applications
[19:28] <Spass> yeah I think so, there should be some info about how much juice is left on battery
[19:28] <Spass> never used that accessibility menu, but I think that could be useful for someone too?
[19:28] <flocculant> Spass: if you wanted to do something awesomely helpful - you could run the mandatory testcases fro packages - and create bug reports for them ... that would be super helpful 
[19:28] <flocculant> awesomely super even
[19:31] <Spass> you mean that testcases I pasted? or something in other place?
[19:31] <flocculant> you linked to the package tracker last
[19:32] <flocculant> none of those have been looked at for 2 cycles at least properly
[19:32] <Spass> ok, I can do that tomorrow, np
[19:32] <Spass> this is what I see on Ubuntu AA install - https://goo.gl/DtCBf1
[19:32] <flocculant> Spass: no rush - there are loads of them :)
[19:32] <Spass> on Xubuntu - just sound and network
[19:33] <flocculant> just syncing my iso's 
[19:35] <Spass> flocculant: I should do a fresh install tomorrow or I can test that packages on current install? don't know how often 'daily' changes
[19:35] <flocculant> you'll be fine testing on what you just installed :)
[19:36] <flocculant> when you find issues - and you will - please https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-tests/+filebug for each testcase
[19:38] <flocculant> Spass: confirm the missing power plugin 
[19:39] <flocculant> ochosi bluesabre - missing plugin when you 'just' install - what to report that against? plugin? indicators? panel? 
[20:12] <flocculant> knome: have you 15 minutes between now and Thursday evening to read something? 
[20:20] <knome> yes, for example now
[20:34] <knome> flocculant, are you using the DND feature with bugs?
[20:34] <flocculant> on the tracker?
[20:34] <knome> yep
[20:34] <flocculant> I do yea
[20:34] <knome> good :)
[20:35] <flocculant> well
[20:35] <knome> well? :D
[20:35] <flocculant> when it's possible - sometimes you find that the bug's so far down the list it doesn't always work very well - dragging it all the way up and hoping the browser pages for you 
[20:35] <ochosi> flocculant: hm, thats odd, so the xfce4-power-manager panel plugin is missing?
[20:36] <knome> flocculant, right, yeah
[20:36] <flocculant> ochosi: ack - ONLY when you don't go to live desktop, so from the very first menu pick install or choose install from the try/install dialogue
[20:37] <ochosi> oh
[20:37] <ochosi> in that case that's expected and was always like tht
[20:37] <ochosi> that's the ubiquity panel, it has no power manager support (or the other way round)
[20:37] <flocculant> knome: also bear in mind the text is very very long already and I am not confident of getting done in one hour
[20:37] <knome> ack
[20:37] <ochosi> in theory we could have indicator-power displayed there, but i don't think it's really worth it
[20:37] <knome> though if it's copy-paste...
[20:37] <flocculant> ochosi: aah ok 
[20:37] <knome> flocculant, and feel free to drop stuff i add
[20:38] <flocculant> knome: yea - but still time for people to discuss needed :)
[20:38] <knome> i don't mind if people stay on the channel after the session :)
[20:38] <flocculant> Spass: ^^ see ochosi's comments re power
[20:38] <flocculant> knome: me neither - but it's tiring running these things ;)
[20:41] <knome> yep
[20:42] <flocculant> that's of course assuming more than 1 person pitches up :D
[20:42] <knome> heh
[20:42] <knome> yeah
[20:43] <flocculant> less than two and I will just post the transcript on the mailing list :D
[20:43] <Spass> ochosi: IMHO it would be nice to see battery status during installation, especially since the screen with check marks (disk space, network connection and power) was removed
[20:43] <ochosi> Spass: yeah, it's not that easily possible i suppose
[20:45] <Spass> ochosi: I've checked Ubuntu AA daily, it displays all (7) icons on the top panel https://goo.gl/DtCBf1
[20:46] <ochosi> yes, those are the indicators, because that's all the ubiquity panel supports
[20:46] <ochosi> so indicator-power to be exact for the battery
[20:46] <ochosi> but we don't really want that in the live session
[20:46] <ochosi> and i'm not sure we can easily scope it to the ubiquity session alone
[20:46] <Spass> ok, I understand
[20:46] <ochosi> tbh the ubiquity session is not *extremely* useful because the xubuntu live session isn't *that* heavy-weight in terms of resource consumption

[20:48] <knome> and to use xubuntu you'll need to have the resources anyway...
[20:48] <ochosi> yeah, although when running the live session, things are a little slower usually
[20:49] <knome> sure
[20:49] <Spass> ok, recommendation officially rejected then :)
[20:50] <ochosi> if we can make indicator-power only appear in the ubiquity session and not after install, it could be okay
[20:50] <ochosi> but imo it's questionable whether it's worth the effort
[20:51] <Spass> maybe previous Ubuntu/Xubuntu installations spoiled me, I always remember summary window with my 'status' (space, network, power)
[20:52] <Spass> but it's not a problem for me
[20:53] <ochosi> yeah, not sure why they dropped the page
[20:53] <ochosi> was maybe not altogether useless
[20:53] <flocculant> if Ubuntu has that power icon regardless of whether on desktop or just ubiquity - then perhaps they didn't think about it affecting other flavours
[20:53] <ochosi> ubuntu always uses indicator-power
[20:54] <ochosi> so for them it's a clear and easy path
[20:54] <ochosi> in theory we could make the xfce panel appear in the ubiquity session
[20:54] <ochosi> then we'd have a fully fledged panel and could throw in whatever we want
[20:55] <ochosi> but at the time when i considered that we decided to leave it as is for the resource savings
[20:55] <ochosi> and because then there'd be zarrrro difference between the two sessions :D
[20:57] <flocculant> :)
[20:58] <flocculant> apart from the power thingymajig :p
[20:59] <Spass> leaving it as it is and adding just indicator-power is an option to consider in the future? as low priority of course
[21:00] <flocculant> Spass: what we also have to bear in mind is that we don't know what Ubuntu will decide about indicators now they're moving to Gnome - that was something that was possibly up in the air a while back
[21:01] <flocculant> at which point possibly ochosi will pull all his hair out :p
[21:01] <ochosi> yeah, that's a good reminder
[21:02] <ochosi> we should poke Laney or Trevinho
[21:02] <flocculant> to buy glue? 
[21:02] <flocculant> aah that reminder :)
[21:02] <ochosi> if any of you are around during the day, that'd be a great thing to do
[21:02] <flocculant> generally not at the moment
[21:02] <flocculant> or not for long at least
[21:03] <flocculant> ochosi: I'll try tomorrow morning if I see trevinho 
[21:03] <ochosi> cool, thanks
[21:03] <flocculant> I think they're online about the right time for me then
[21:04] <flocculant> or at least were today ;)
[21:04] <flocculant> ochosi: might be worth us working out the things that might possibly affect us so we have some list somewhere
[21:05] <flocculant> I believe the lightdm convo went quiet 
[21:05] <ochosi> mhm
[21:05] <ochosi> i hope at least that one will stick around
[21:06] <flocculant> yea - I think Robert does too :)
[21:06] <ochosi> if indicators go south, then we only have a problem with indicator-application, cause that helps with the integration of several apps
[21:06] <flocculant> yup
[21:06] <ochosi> but indicator-sound we could in theory replace
[21:06] <ochosi> and indicator-messages we could possibly live without
[21:06] <flocculant> I have had the xfce pa plugin here which works - but obviously doesn't list music apps
[21:06] <flocculant> right
[21:07] <ochosi> yeah, doesnt do that
[21:07] <flocculant> s/have had/still have
[21:07] <encomjones> losing the indicators would be no big deal 
[21:07] <ochosi> but at least it's ok sound control
[21:07] <flocculant> yea
[21:07] <flocculant> that works fine
[21:07] <flocculant> (when I'm using pulse :D)
[21:10] <Spass> I was recently testing my 17.04 without indicators for a day or two, just to check if I need them as much as I think, and yeah - loosing them won't be a big deal, that said - I really like them
[21:12] <flocculant> knome: finished? 
[21:12] <knome> soon... soon
[21:12] <encomjones> coming from debian I never used them before so I just remove them anyway 
[21:13] <flocculant> knome: ok - well I'm off up the wooden hill now :) thanks for looking there, I'll go back there tomorrow evening 
[21:13] <knome> no worries
[21:13] <knome> nighty! :)
[21:14] <flocculant> I think the only indicator I use is the message one - and only to see if I'm bothered enough to read the mail yet
[21:14] <flocculant> anyway - stairs for me :)
[21:14] <flocculant> night all
[21:33] <Unit193> -application isn't all that important since packages generally fallback to trayicon, -sound I'd say is a little more so, but -pa-plugin makes it not too bad.