[01:55] <lyn||ian> nearly meeting time
[01:55]  * pleia2 nods
[01:59] <pleia2> I wish this diff was less awful
[02:00] <pleia2> but I'm sure nhaines will give us the cliff notes and we can dig in from there :)
[02:00] <nhaines> All diffs are awful.  But that one is particularly pessimal.  :)
[02:01] <pleia2> meeting time :)
[02:01] <nhaines> Yup!  :)
[02:02] <nhaines> #startmeeting
[02:02] <darthrobot`> Meeting started Mon May 15 02:02:02 2017 UTC.  The chair is nhaines. Information about MeetBot at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[02:02] <darthrobot`> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[02:02] <nhaines> #chair pleia2 lyn||ian
[02:02] <darthrobot`> Current chairs: lyn||ian nhaines pleia2
[02:02] <nhaines> Welcome to the May 14th Ubuntu California LoCo meeting!
[02:02] <nhaines> Tonight's agenda is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/17May14
[02:02] <darthrobot`> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Meetings/17May14 - Ubuntu Wiki]
[02:03] <nhaines> #topic Upcoming events
[02:03] <nhaines> It's May, Ubuntu 17.04 has been released, and summer's coming up.  What's going on?  :)
[02:03] <pleia2> alas, nothing up here so far
[02:04] <nhaines> Nor down here.
[02:04] <nhaines> Although the Ubuntu Hours in Pasadena continue happily, as I understand it.
[02:04] <pleia2> our focus has mostly shifted to LTS for our releases parties
[02:04] <dax> (I'm around but multitasking right now.)
[02:04] <pleia2> we haven't had an Ubuntu Hour in some time either, but there is someone interested in picking up where I left off
[02:05] <nhaines> That's good to hear!
[02:05] <nhaines> Ubuntu Hours are good ways to sort of keep up to date with that's going on in the Ubuntu world.
[02:06] <nhaines> #topic Announcements
[02:06] <nhaines> Are there any other announcements this week?
[02:06]  * lyn||ian does not have any
[02:07] <pleia2> nothing from me either
[02:07] <nhaines> Okay then, moving on to agenda items.
[02:07] <nhaines> #topic Final discussion of leadership document amendments before proceeding to a vote
[02:08] <nhaines> So on February 19th, I proposed an amendment to our leadership document.
[02:08] <nhaines> There's been no discussion on the mailing list and therefore I assume 100% unanimous assent from the LoCo.  :P
[02:09] <lyn||ian> nhaines, link now I do not remember any complaints to it
[02:09] <pleia2> hehe
[02:09] <pleia2> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NathanHaines/CaliforniaLeadershipDocument?action=diff&rev2=2&rev1=1
[02:09] <darthrobot`> Title: [Diff for "NathanHaines/CaliforniaLeadershipDocument" - Ubuntu Wiki]
[02:09] <pleia2> the diff of changes
[02:09] <pleia2> nhaines: care to summarize?
[02:10] <nhaines> Our current document is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/Leadership
[02:10] <darthrobot`> Title: [CaliforniaTeam/Leadership - Ubuntu Wiki]
[02:10] <nhaines> And the proposed new document is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NathanHaines/CaliforniaLeadershipDocument
[02:10] <darthrobot`> Title: [NathanHaines/CaliforniaLeadershipDocument - Ubuntu Wiki]
[02:10] <pleia2> #link https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-us-ca/2017-February/002782.html
[02:10] <darthrobot`> Title: [[Ubuntu-US-CA] Proposed amendment to the Ubuntu Californialeadership document.]
[02:10] <pleia2> ^ Original email about the proposed changes from February
[02:11] <nhaines> The amendments basically just change references to "leadership council" to "leadership role."
[02:11] <dax> and make that one person instead of a three person council, obviously
[02:11] <nhaines> The intention is to allow a single elected leader rather than an elected triumvirate, but also to allow a group or two or three leaders in the future if needed.
[02:12] <dax> i read the document back in February, am in favor of it
[02:12] <pleia2> I like increasing the flexibility here
[02:12] <lyn||ian> yes increased flexibility sounds good
[02:12] <pleia2> I think the trio served its purpose for a time, but we don't want to be locked into something forever if it's not working for us
[02:12] <nhaines> There's some other silliness in the document, but I haven't changed any of that.  :)
[02:13] <dax> If we had more activity I'd want more pondering of it, but until/unless that happens I think one caretaker/leader is fine.
[02:13] <nhaines> pleia2: yes, and with the lack of leader nominations this last time around, I don't think the group is big enough to support three leaders.
[02:13]  * pleia2 nods
[02:14] <lyn||ian> yes nhaines
[02:14] <nhaines> Which is different from whether or not we *need* three leaders, but I don't think we do, either.  :)
[02:14] <nhaines> In any case, I wanted to give the group a last chance to comment before I called for a vote.
[02:15] <nhaines> Once the vote on the changes is finished, we can make another call for nominations and do a leadership vote.
[02:15] <pleia2> thank you for your work on this, sorry it's taken so long to finally talk about it :)
[02:15] <pleia2> nothing else from me though
[02:16] <nhaines> It's okay.  SCALE and then other things were in the way. :)
[02:16] <nhaines> Let's vote on whether we should vote.
[02:16] <pleia2> hehe
[02:16] <nhaines> #vote Put proposed leadership document amendment to a LoCo-wide vote for ratification.
[02:16] <darthrobot`> Please vote on: Put proposed leadership document amendment to a LoCo-wide vote for ratification.
[02:16] <darthrobot`> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
[02:16] <nhaines> +1
[02:16] <darthrobot`> +1 received from nhaines
[02:16] <pleia2> +1
[02:16] <darthrobot`> +1 received from pleia2
[02:16] <dax> +1
[02:16] <darthrobot`> +1 received from dax
[02:17] <lyn||ian> +1
[02:17] <darthrobot`> +1 received from lyn||ian
[02:17] <nhaines> #endvote
[02:17] <darthrobot`> Voting ended on: Put proposed leadership document amendment to a LoCo-wide vote for ratification.
[02:17] <darthrobot`> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
[02:17] <darthrobot`> Motion carried
[02:17] <pleia2> just going to toss a simple poll up in launchpad/
[02:17] <pleia2> ?
[02:17] <nhaines> That or we can send out a condor-seat ballot to the LoCo.
[02:18] <pleia2> collecting emails for that is D:
[02:18] <nhaines> That's okay though, because I'm not the one who has to do it.
[02:18] <pleia2> and it's just a yes/no anyway, right?
[02:18] <nhaines> Right.
[02:19] <pleia2> so condorcet is not so great for it :)
[02:19] <dax> last/only previous amendment was just approved by IRC vote. If you want a non-IRC thing I'd just LP it
[02:19] <pleia2> well, I can set that up
[02:19] <nhaines> dax: that's something I should've looked up then.
[02:19] <nhaines> Do we want to LP it or should we just do an IRC vote next meeting?
[02:20] <dax> pleia2: would LP be easy?
[02:20] <pleia2> lp is easy and open to more people, irc is hard and I'll be on a train during the next meeting
[02:20] <dax> I vote LP then
[02:20] <nhaines> Let's vote on how we should vote for the vote.
[02:20] <nhaines> Nah.  I think LP works.
[02:20] <pleia2> #action pleia2 to set up lp poll for leadership document amendment radification
[02:20] <darthrobot`> ACTION: pleia2 to set up lp poll for leadership document amendment radification
[02:21] <nhaines> I find that typo especially pleasing and fitting for a California LoCo vote.  :)
[02:21] <nhaines> pleia2: you'll be a California native yet!
[02:21] <pleia2> hahahah
[02:22] <pleia2> raaaad
[02:22] <nhaines> Okay, I think everything's all set for that, then.
[02:22] <nhaines> #topic Other business
[02:22] <nhaines> Any other business this week?
[02:22]  * lyn||ian has none
[02:23] <pleia2> I don't think so
[02:23] <nhaines> Okay, I think that's it for this meeting then.
[02:23] <nhaines> Happy Mother's Day to any mothers and aunts and mentors out there!
[02:23] <pleia2> thanks for chairing \o/
[02:24] <nhaines> Our next meeting will be May 28th.
[02:24] <nhaines> #endmeeting
[02:24] <darthrobot`> Meeting ended Mon May 15 02:24:25 2017 UTC.
[02:24] <darthrobot`> Minutes:        http://ihas.5cat.com/~darthrobot/ubuntu-us-ca/2017/ubuntu-us-ca.2017-05-15-02.02.moin.txt
[02:24] <nhaines> Now to squint at Jekyll some more.
[02:24] <pleia2> true story: I looked up the proper spelling of amendment and then went to town on radification
[02:24] <nhaines> Haha!
[02:25] <nhaines> I had to double check that "assent" meant what I thought it did.  (It did.)
[02:25] <pleia2> English is tough
[02:25] <pleia2> especially the way we speak it
[02:26] <nhaines> Relevant: http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1993/02/11
[02:26] <darthrobot`> Title: [Calvin and Hobbes by Bill Watterson for Feb 11, 1993 | Read Comic Strips at GoComics.com]
[02:26] <pleia2> hehe
[02:28] <nhaines> I was worried about needing to learn SASS/SCSS to convert my existing hand-made stylesheet to the Jekyll engine.
[02:28] <nhaines> But then I learned that SASS is basically just the way I *think* CSS should work.
[02:30] <nhaines> Also my modus operandus of "I don't have a good justification but I'm going to start writing all my blog posts in Markdown" last year turned out to be totally justified.
[02:31] <nhaines> (Well, the real reason is that I thought I might move to Mezzanine but still had to post to LiveJournal in the meantime.  But in any case, it all worked out.)
[02:32] <pleia2> would be nice if launchpad told me the date/time format it wants in the poll *shakesfist* and googles
[02:33] <pleia2> heh https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/262205
[02:33] <darthrobot`> Title: [Bug #262205 (polls) “Dates in Launchpad polls should be easy to ...” : Bugs : Launchpad itself]
[02:33] <pleia2> Won't Fix, sad
[02:34]  * pleia2 metoos anyway
[02:35] <pleia2> why would I every say something with lp is easy?
[02:37] <pleia2> A poll cannot open less than 12 hours after it's created.
[02:37] <pleia2> fml
[02:37] <nhaines> Can't *open*?
[02:38] <nhaines> I'm totally not going to be around for the June 11th meeting.
[02:39] <dax> lol Launchpad
[02:40] <pleia2> btw, %Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S
[02:40] <dax> so, correct :P?
[02:42] <pleia2> ok, hopefully this works ...in 12 hours when it opens :P https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-california/+poll/2017-leadership-amendment
[02:42] <darthrobot`> Title: [Ratification of the 2017 leadership document amendment : “Ubuntu California” team]
[02:42] <pleia2> I'll send out an email in the AM if it looks sane
[02:45] <nhaines> \o/
[02:45] <nhaines> i tried to vote but I can't vote.
[02:45] <nhaines> Although apparently I can sabotage the voting options, so there's that.
[02:46] <nhaines> pleia2: How do you feel about GNOME Shell?
[02:47] <pleia2> xfce4ever
[02:47] <nhaines> I'm considering downgrading to Ubuntu 16.04 LTS and reevaluating whether or not to run Ubuntu in 2020.
[02:48] <nhaines> Although I do sort of like MATE.
[02:48] <dax> at the risk of being annoying, MATE works fine on Debian :)
[02:49] <pleia2> I've never really used any form of GNOME, and I continue to lack interest in trying it out
[02:49] <dax> i have gnome shell on a laptop right now. it's okay
[02:49] <dax> don't really feel strongly about it one way or another
[02:49] <nhaines> The non-core GNOME apps are great.  The GNOME Project is toxic and the worst thing to happen to Free Software.
[02:50] <nhaines> Maybe that's changed in the past couple of years but I lack time or motivation to find out.
[02:51] <nhaines> Although having spent hours using GNOME Software for the second edition of my book, I can honestly say it's terrible compared to Ubuntu Software Center.
[02:51] <nhaines> When GNOME Software even worked, anyway.  Because it broke a couple times and I had to revert back to a clean-install snapshot to get any listings.
[02:53] <nhaines> But GNOME's position seems to be "People should never install fonts."
[02:53] <nhaines> Or command line apps, unless it's Nethack, in which case only allow the console version to be installed and do not offer the GTK version.
[02:54] <dax> The only software GUI that doesn't annoy me greatly is synaptic
[02:54] <dax> All the "friendlier" ones are not for me.
[02:54] <nhaines> I didn't use Ubuntu Software Center a lot, but at least it worked.
[03:08] <pleia2> alright, email is prepped so I just need to check the poll and hit send before airport in the AM
[03:11] <nhaines> yay!
[03:11] <lyn||ian> I think lubuntu-software-center was better than gnome-software
[03:11] <nhaines> Thanks for doing all that.  :)
[03:11] <lyn||ian> but not maintained anymore