[05:30] <andyrock> good morning
[05:40] <oSoMoN> good morning andyrock!
[06:43] <jibel> good morning
[08:00] <Trevinho> morning europe
[08:01] <Laney> moin
[08:01]  * willcooke waves
[08:02] <didrocks> morning guys
[08:02] <Laney> what's up g
[08:59] <duflu> Start again... Morning Europe
[09:00] <willcooke> hi duflu
[09:00] <duflu> Hey willcooke
[09:00] <duflu> (I actually said Morning Europe in a Ukranian accent)
[09:14] <Trevinho> hi duflu
[09:14] <Trevinho> Laney: did you see my new theme MP, right?
[09:14] <Laney> not unless you asked me for a review
[09:15] <Trevinho> Laney: ok it's here then https://code.launchpad.net/~3v1n0/ubuntu-themes/gtk-theme-colors-define/+merge/324091
[09:15] <duflu> Hey Trevinho
[09:29] <muktupavels> Trevinho: if you work on theme then maybe you want fix/improve appmenu button style? Currently it does not look good.
[09:29] <Trevinho> muktupavels: I checked that... BUt it didn't look bad to me
[09:30] <Trevinho> muktupavels: in csd you mean?
[09:30] <muktupavels> yes
[09:30] <chrisccoulson> hi willcooke
[09:30] <chrisccoulson> did you talk to anyone about the startpage on friday?
[09:31] <muktupavels> Trevinho: icon is more or less same size as button...
[09:32] <Trevinho> muktupavels: anyway, well... Theme is a side thing, when I find something I fix that :)
[09:39] <oSoMoN> chrisccoulson, I’ve got a chromium-browser stable update ready in https://launchpad.net/~canonical-chromium-builds/+archive/ubuntu/stage/+packages (except for yakkety arm64 which repeatedly fails to build). Is it ok to push to -updates for all series but yakkety until I figure out how to get the arm64 build not to die of memory exhaustion?
[09:41] <oSoMoN> interestingly, I was seeing that same build failure on beta and dev, but the latest updates built fine in my PPAs, wondering if it’s due to a change upstream or different builder specs
[10:32]  * willcooke -> haircut. brb
[10:33] <Laney> grade 1 all over
[11:06] <willcooke> back.  Ears lowered
[11:12] <mobeats> Greetings. What's a lightweight desktop application for cropping images, that isn't as heavy duty as GIMP?
[11:23] <oSoMoN> IIRC shotwell does cropping
[11:23] <willcooke> or mtpaint
[11:24] <willcooke> better to ask on #ubuntu for this sort of thing though - those guys will have a better idea
[11:24] <jibel> imagemagick
[11:24] <jibel> there are tons of options
[11:53] <Trevinho> Laney: are you fine with me landing the theme, right?
[11:53] <Laney> sure
[11:54] <Trevinho> in the queue!
[12:20] <jbicha> good morning
[12:56] <willcooke> hey jbicha
[14:24] <GunnarHj> seb128: Hi Seb, do you have any thoughts about bug #1689321?
[14:25] <seb128> GunnarHj, hey, how do we ensure the right binaries for the locale are installed?
[14:27] <GunnarHj> seb128: Do you mean for gnome-getting-started-docs? pkg_depends, I suppose.
[14:28] <GunnarHj> seb128: My thought is to not split ubuntu-docs and gnome-user-docs into multiple language specific binaries.
[14:28] <seb128> GunnarHj, what would be the size impact on the iso?
[14:29] <mobeats> thanks willcooke & oSoMoN
[14:29] <oSoMoN> you’re welcome
[14:30] <GunnarHj> seb128: Approximately +10 MiB.
[14:32] <jbicha> it looks like gnome-user-guide .deb for zesty/universe is 10.7MB, installed size 49MB
[14:32] <seb128> it's always tricky
[14:34] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Right. ubuntu-docs in zesty (only English) is 1.1 MiB.
[14:34] <seb128> if we wave 10M additions as small they pile up
[14:34] <seb128> and you easily end up with 15% increase
[14:34] <seb128> and that has an impact on download time, installation time and footprint, mirrors, bandwith, etc
[14:35] <jbicha> in artful (maybe it's already stripped since there was a new upload after it was re-promoted to main), it's a 2.2MB .deb
[14:35] <GunnarHj> I have some good news on the topic: fonts-noto-cjk will probably be split by weights, which will give us tens of MB less ISO space. :)
[14:37] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Then is must have been stripped...
[14:42] <GunnarHj> seb128, jbicha: So we are talking about 10.7 - 2.2 = 8.5 MiB. Is saving that space worth the work with splitting the package into
[14:43] <GunnarHj> ~30 language specific packages?
[14:44] <seb128> I would just keep it in the langpacks
[14:44] <GunnarHj> seb128: That in effect prevents us from doing docs SRUs.
[14:45] <seb128> I don't really understand why
[14:46] <jbicha> it's also an issue if upstream produces a new translation update of gnome-user-docs; because the translations won't get to users until we get around to making another language pack
[14:46] <GunnarHj> seb128: I tried to explain it in the bug report.
[14:46] <jbicha> I think Gunnar is saying that the Docs team can't change any strings or translations will break until the next langpack is done
[14:47] <seb128> why?
[14:47] <jbicha> that's true even if Ubuntu translators correct the translations to match the new text
[14:47] <seb128> you can't change strings anyway
[14:48] <seb128> nothing assure you that all translation teams will pick up the new strings beforfe your upload
[14:48] <seb128> so you might regress even without stripping
[14:48] <GunnarHj> seb128, jbicha: Not only translation will break, the content changes won't be present in other languages but English until the language packs are updated. And we only update langpacks for verified languages, which is far from all of them.
[14:48] <seb128> you shouldn't change strings in a SRU
[14:48] <seb128> outdated content is the same
[14:49] <seb128> if some translations team are slow or unstaffed you regress the same way, even without split
[14:49] <seb128> and if langpacks updates are not well verified that's another issue and seems worth resolving
[14:50] <GunnarHj> seb128, jbicha: I'm not suggesting that SRUing of the docs would be done for extensive parts. But as it works now, we can't even fix an apparently misleading section.
[14:52] <GunnarHj> And yes, doing it typically leads to additional untranslated strings.
[14:53] <seb128> which is not better than misleading sections
[14:53] <seb128> if users don't understand english they go from misleading to not understandable
[14:53] <seb128> but yeah, tricky topic
[14:54] <GunnarHj> seb128: Then they aren't misled, at least. :)
[14:54] <seb128> it might be worth an ubuntu-devel or desktop@ list discussion
[14:55] <GunnarHj> seb128: Do you mean to discuss the appropriateness of doing docs SRUs there?
[14:55] <jbicha> I'm not sure if this is related, but I'd like to encourage translators to translate gnome-user-docs in GNOME rather than in LP
[14:56] <seb128> GunnarHj, no, about the strip or unstrip with pro and con
[14:57] <GunnarHj> seb128: But that boils down to that, doesn't it?
[14:57] <seb128> GunnarHj, I'm unsure how often we need to fix docs in SRUs in practice and important are those fixes, if it's worth increasing by 1% or more the iso size with the impact on all users download/install time/disk use
[14:57] <seb128> GunnarHj, right, are those docs errors important enough to justify adding cost to all Ubuntu users
[14:58] <jbicha> how do we opt gnome-getting-started-docs out of the langpacks? since it's already split by language, stripping for langpacks doesn't make any sense there
[14:58] <seb128> it might make sense
[14:58] <seb128> it allows to get translations updated through launchpad
[14:59] <GunnarHj> seb128: Is it a good idea to use LP for gnome-user-docs and gnome-getting-started-docs?
[14:59] <seb128> if you don't strip/use langpacks then you need to fix translations errors by patching the source package and SRUing it
[14:59] <jbicha> sorry for asking a silly question, but why would we want translations through LP for the GNOME docs that haven't been patched in Ubuntu?
[15:00] <seb128> GunnarHj, that's a good question, I didn't think much about that so I don't have an opinion at the moment
[15:00] <seb128> jbicha, because that's where Ubuntu translations go to fix translations errors and one of the reason why we did langpacks, so we could fix translations without having to do a source upload
[15:01] <GunnarHj> seb128: I agree with jbicha that we should encourage the translators do work with upstream, and that would basically make LP redundant.
[15:01] <seb128> what part of LP?
[15:01] <seb128> we can make LP use the upstream translations
[15:01] <seb128> we still get langpack updates decoupled from source uploads
[15:03] <seb128> LP as the UI were translators do they work is one side of the process
[15:03] <GunnarHj> seb128: Right, but it means that translators may do work in LP which does not benefit upstream...
[15:03] <seb128> right, well we have a solution to that
[15:03] <seb128> set the translation as shared with the upstream component
[15:03] <GunnarHj> Is that possible?
[15:04] <jbicha> would that require GNOME to allow git commits from LP translations?
[15:04] <seb128> no?
[15:04] <seb128> that would mean Ubuntu translators can't fix bugs on launchpad and need to fix them upstream
[15:05] <seb128> but we would keep the capability to refresh translations with langpacks
[15:05] <seb128> the update would just come to upstream git
[15:05] <seb128> GunnarHj, I think https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+source/eog/+sharing-details
[15:05] <seb128> " Translation sharing with upstream is active. "
[15:07] <jbicha> so we would need to manually make sure GNOME has a string freeze and git-branch for a series (like gnome-3-24) and point LP to that branch?
[15:07] <GunnarHj> Ok, so you mean that with such a link, LP could import new translations from upstream automatically, and we have the option to update the langpacks.
[15:07] <seb128> something like that
[15:08] <seb128> k, need to drop offline for a bit, relocating before the meeting
[15:08] <seb128> bbiab
[15:09] <GunnarHj> jbicha: This discussion turned more complicated than I anticipated.
[15:26] <jbicha> yes, there's so much I still don't understand about how Ubuntu's langpacks and translations work
[15:30]  * willcooke rings the meeting bell
[15:30] <willcooke> #startmeeting Desktop Team Meeting - 2017-05-16
[15:30] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue May 16 15:30:29 2017 UTC.  The chair is willcooke. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:30] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:30] <jbicha> \o
[15:30] <willcooke> Roll call: andyrock, jbicha, jibel/heber, kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
[15:30] <kenvandine> o/
[15:31] <heber> o/
[15:31] <oSoMoN> 🐵/
[15:32] <willcooke> Just finishing up a call, be with you in a sec
[15:32] <andyrock> o/
[15:32] <willcooke> done
[15:33] <willcooke> Let's get the ball rolling
[15:33] <willcooke> #topic andyrock
[15:33] <andyrock> hey
[15:33] <andyrock> #1 Finishing the process to pass the cr
[15:33] <andyrock> +mir work to brandon
[15:33] <andyrock> #2 Some work to sync cr+mir with cr+wayland from igalia
[15:34] <andyrock> #3 live-patch: studying the all thing
[15:34] <andyrock> #4 check what we need to do with livepatch + ubuntuone account
[15:34] <andyrock> eof
[15:34] <willcooke> thanks andyrock
[15:34] <willcooke> #topic jbicha
[15:34] <jbicha> • Prepared gnome-shell SRUs (LP: #1684205, LP: #1690938, LP: #1589240, LP: #1672175)
[15:34] <jbicha> • Completed webkitgtk fast-track SRU (LP: #1687019)
[15:35] <jbicha> • Some GNOME 3.24.2 updates
[15:35] <jbicha> • Closed a few hundred gnome-shell bugs for unsupported versions
[15:35] <jbicha> • Worked with bdmurray to modify apport to tell bug-reporting users of the GNOME3 PPA for 16.04 and 14.04 to ppa-purge the PPA since it's no longer supported on those releases (LP: #1689093)
[15:35] <jbicha> • Forwarded several crash reports for gnome-calendar and gnome-shell to GNOME
[15:35] <jbicha> • Scheduled https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JeremyBicha/CoreDevApplication for next Monday
[15:35] <jbicha> eof
[15:35] <seb128> (sorry, relocating took a bit longer that I though)
[15:35] <willcooke> Good luck with the coredev jbicha.
[15:35] <willcooke> #topic jibel
[15:36] <willcooke> Hey jibel, you want to handle this or heber?
[15:36] <heber> Hi! Status for jibel (who is in a dr appointment) and myself
[15:36] <willcooke> thanks heber
[15:36] <heber> * Removed obsolete upgrade tests.
[15:36] <heber> * Added upgrade tests from Zesty to Artful for Ubuntu and flavors
[15:36] <heber> + and currently making them green
[15:36] <heber> * Installer tests: Fixing static validation jobs
[15:36] <heber> EOF
[15:36] <willcooke> thanks heber
[15:36] <willcooke> heber - I'll get 1:1s set up etc this week
[15:37] <heber> willcooke, ok. Thanks!
[15:37] <willcooke> #topic kenvandine
[15:37] <kenvandine> * Snapped some GNOME apps, gedit and gnome-calendar are working well in classic mode.  gnome-terminal and gnome-contacts are a WIP.  More coming
[15:37] <kenvandine>   - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/GNOME/Snaps
[15:37] <kenvandine> * Uploaded SRU for network-manager-applet to xenial, installed xenial on a laptop to test the SRU.
[15:37] <kenvandine> * MIR status, security acks for mozjs38 and gjs, still waiting on acks from MIR team
[15:37] <kenvandine> * Upgraded laptop to Artful, works great :)
[15:37] <kenvandine> EOF
[15:37] <willcooke> thanks kenvandine
[15:37] <willcooke> #topic Laney
[15:38] <Laney> • gstreamer 1.12 final
[15:38] <Laney> • asglib update @ debian/exp & artful
[15:38] <Laney> • new gtk
[15:38] <Laney> • debugging s390x autopkgtest workers crashing
[15:38] <Laney> • ubiquity launcher in daily images wasn't being marked as executable, change in new nautilus - fix that in casper
[15:38] <Laney> • theme reviews for Marcoooooo
[15:38] <Laney> • pygobject update @ experimental
[15:38] <Laney> • gnome-software - some debugging of updates not working, now looking at pk/gstreamer
[15:38] <Laney> ⚣
[15:38] <willcooke> Thanks Laney
[15:38] <willcooke> #topic oSoMoN
[15:39] <oSoMoN> • weekly round of chromium updates: stable 58.0.3029.110, beta 59.0.3071.47, dev 60.0.3095.5
[15:39] <oSoMoN> • subscribed to the officesecurity ML
[15:39] <oSoMoN> • built libreoffice 5.3.3 (latest fresh release) for artful in PPA, figured out how to run autopkgtests locally and looking into some failures
[15:39] <oSoMoN> EOF
[15:39] <willcooke> thanks oSoMoN
[15:39] <willcooke> #topic seb128
[15:39] <seb128> just back since yesterday, been catching up on what happened while I was away

[15:40] <willcooke> wb seb128!
[15:40] <seb128> thanks!
[15:40] <willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
[15:40] <tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Released 1.14.0. New configuration option for auto setup of only local (IPP-over-USB) IPP printers and possibility to change default to auto-setup of all driverless printers by ./configure option, for easier syncing of the Debian package into Ubuntu.
[15:40] <tkamppeter> - cups-filters: Studied way how to continue development of cups-browsed to make use of the new CUPS 2.2.x features and taking into account the functionality of the new print dialog backends.
[15:40] <tkamppeter> - CUPS: Discussed some of the new CUPS features with Mike Sweet and found out that in small networks and on mobile devices new print dialog can replace cups-browsed, but for sophisticated features in large networks cups-browsed is useful: load balancing, legacy CUPS interoperability, selecting remote printers, ...
[15:40] <tkamppeter> - Google Summer of Code 2017: Mentoring the students who already started some coding, planning of the student projects.
[15:40] <tkamppeter> - Bugs.
[15:40] <willcooke> thanks tkamppeter
[15:40] <willcooke> #topic Trevinho
[15:40]  * willcooke expects he's asleep
[15:40] <Laney> we just saw him
[15:40] <Trevinho> yes
[15:40] <andyrock> he's never asleep
[15:41] <willcooke> :))
[15:41] <Laney> he looked GREAT
[15:41] <Laney> not drunk at all
[15:41] <oSoMoN> :)
[15:41] <Trevinho> · Theme GTK fixes
[15:41] <Trevinho> · Got all the gnome git stuff working from jhbuild
[15:41] <Trevinho> · Looking at the gnome scaling factor support for non-integer values
[15:41] <Trevinho> Laney: what are you meaning?!
[15:41] <Trevinho> That was dinner!
[15:41] <Trevinho> :-)
[15:41] <Laney> liquid dinner
[15:42] <willcooke> thanks Trevinho
[15:42] <Trevinho>  /DONE
[15:42] <willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
[15:42] <willcooke> - Testing and fixing bugs for GNOME Software PackageKit migration
[15:42] <willcooke> - Investigating GtkEntry input limits in GTK+ - proposed patch that stops changed events being generated once limit hit.
[15:42] <willcooke> - snapd-glib 1.12 release - added support for more install options and updated error codes.
[15:42] <willcooke> - Patches for LightDM guest session disable SRU
[15:42] <willcooke> #topic AOB
[15:42] <willcooke> First off, did I miss anyone?
[15:43] <willcooke> Likely more additions next week, but for now is that all of us?
[15:43] <willcooke> Anyone who is not here, please raise your hand
[15:43] <willcooke> In the meantime..
[15:43] <willcooke> Weekly email status updates.  I'll be taking the weekly meeting notes and turning them in to an email which I will post to (probably) the desktop ML.
[15:44] <JamieBen_> thanks willcooke
[15:44] <willcooke> I might need a few details from people, but I think it'll be generally fine
[15:44] <willcooke> ohai JamieBen_
[15:45] <willcooke> Secondly - Task breakdown.  If you don't already have a Trello account, please get one.  And then I will finish off the script to import LP bugs (and Blueprint work items?) in to Trello
[15:45] <willcooke> Thirdly - it's review time again.  I'll send an email out on that.  But have a think about your 360 reviewers
[15:47] <willcooke> Lastly, there will be an interview with our very own kenvandine in OMG shortly.  Check it out.  I'll put a link here soon.
[15:47] <willcooke> Anyone got any other topics?
[15:47] <kenvandine> :)
[15:48] <willcooke> going once
[15:48] <seb128> o/
[15:48] <seb128> quick one, but might be worth to use a common list for GNOME things we snap
[15:48] <seb128> kenvandine started a wikipage
[15:48] <seb128> but we already had a googledoc with some items
[15:48] <seb128> and some people who started work on some snaps
[15:48] <seb128> just to make sure we don't end up duplicating work
[15:49] <willcooke> Let's transition to the wiki page
[15:49] <seb128> wfm
[15:49] <willcooke> Anyone got a link handy?
[15:49] <seb128> it's in the meeting log, kenvandine mentioned it in his update
[15:49] <willcooke> oh, right
[15:49] <willcooke> I remember
[15:49] <seb128> :-)
[15:49] <willcooke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/GNOME/Snaps
[15:49] <seb128> right, that one
[15:50] <seb128> that was it from me
[15:50] <seb128> thanks :-)
[15:50] <willcooke> thx seb128
[15:50] <willcooke> anyone else?
[15:50] <kenvandine> i've noticed that since i've upgraded to artful, they aren't working anymore
[15:50] <willcooke> Wayland interfaces?
[15:50] <kenvandine> no, typelib issues
[15:51] <kenvandine> looking into it
[15:51] <willcooke> cool, thanks kenvandine
[15:51] <willcooke> going twice
[15:52] <willcooke> aaand
[15:52] <willcooke> #endmeeting
[15:52] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue May 16 15:52:18 2017 UTC.
[15:52] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2017/ubuntu-desktop.2017-05-16-15.30.moin.txt
[15:52] <willcooke> thanks all
[15:52] <seb128> thanks!
[16:20] <GunnarHj> seb128, jbicha: Trying to sum up the discussion about docs and translations. So far we have mostly questions:
[16:20] <GunnarHj> - Would it be acceptable to not strip and with that add 8.5 MiB ISO space to gain some flexibility wrt docs SRUs?
[16:20] <GunnarHj> - Do we want to use LP for gnome-user-docs and gnome-getting-started-docs translations?
[16:20] <GunnarHj> I think those two questions can be dealt with separately.
[16:20] <GunnarHj> How do we proceed?
[16:58] <seb128> GunnarHj, use mailing list for discussion
[17:07] <GunnarHj> seb128: Ok, I'll try to describe the conflicts of aims on the list.
[17:07] <GunnarHj> Btw, I posted to the list on another topic:
[17:07] <GunnarHj> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2017-May/004935.html
[17:07] <GunnarHj> Only a peripheral reply so far. Who is the decision maker on that?
[17:44] <jbicha> the daily Ubuntu (Unity) artful images for the past few days have been pretty unusuable for me in Try Ubuntu mode, tested in VBox
[19:01] <willcooke> night all
[21:19] <GunnarHj> jbicha: still there?
[21:20] <jbicha> yes
[21:21] <GunnarHj> jbicha: If I understand it correctly, the split of gnome-getting-started-docs into language specific binaries is an Ubuntu specific thing. Do you think it would be manageable to do the same with gnome-user-docs?
[21:22] <jbicha> yes, it shouldn't be that difficult
[21:22] <GunnarHj> jbicha: It would eliminate the ISO space discussion.
[21:22] <jbicha> Getting Started is ridiculously large with all the videos so it made a lot of sense for that to be split up
[21:23] <GunnarHj> I know.
[21:24] <GunnarHj> jbicha: The problem with such a solution is that you need to be attentive when languages are added (or removed).
[21:25] <jbicha> I don't know when they would ever be removed, but the --fail-missing rule will loudly tell you when there's a new language
[21:25] <GunnarHj> Ok.
[21:26] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Maybe this would be the best solution. I'm hesitating to bring the discussion to the list (too much details which few devs know about).
[21:33] <jbicha> if you're going to make 30+ new packages, maybe now would be a good time to rename the binary from gnome-user-guide to gnome-user-docs
[21:33] <jbicha> *binary package name
[21:36] <GunnarHj> jbicha: The other thing we talked about - whether to use LP for the new docs packages or not - requires some more discussion with seb128. Possibly he missed that you - unlike with other packages - cannot accomplish updates of docs translations without updating and uploading the packages. The localized Mallard pages are created at build time.
[21:37] <jbicha> oh
[21:37] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Why would we want to rename the binary?
[21:38] <jbicha> I assume it's only named gnome-user-guide for historical reasons; it would make a lot more sense now to have it match the upstream name and source package name
[21:39] <GunnarHj> Ok. I'll keep that in mind. We need Seb's clearance first.
[21:39] <jbicha> oh, and I was thinking about splitting the system-admin-guide into a separate binary pkg in Debian but that's not currently translated so that's no big deal either way
[21:41] <GunnarHj> Is that built at all currently?
[21:41] <jbicha> yelp help:system-admin-guide
[21:41] <jbicha> (yes)
[21:44] <GunnarHj> Aha, I see now that it's currently included in gnome-user-guide.
[21:46] <jbicha> that could be an upstream issue that maybe GNOME should split it off themselves?
[21:47] <GunnarHj> Separate tarball?
[21:53] <GunnarHj> jbicha: Anyway, I'm going to test this idea with seb128 tomorrow.
[22:16] <jbicha> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/05/ubuntu-switch-to-gnome-questions-answered